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The Phantom Pain: MGS 5?

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Re: The Phantom Pain: MGS 5?

Postby Shadowman » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:05 pm

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BeastProwl wrote:My last post has a an attachment.


You know what's really crazy about that scene? They never talk about that being a new prosthetic body. I assumed they managed to attach human parts back on to him.
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Re: The Phantom Pain: MGS 5?

Postby BeastProwl » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:32 pm

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Impossible.
The Cybernetic enhancements Raiden underwent at Area 51 make it impossible for him to survive with a normal body. Even if they are human arms, they are enhanced to suit him cybernetically, as at the time, his body ran on white blood. Thats not to say normal body parts cant be altered to run on the blood, but the fact remains. Those arms arent normal. So I suppose its possible Big Boss got an arm donated to him after this happened, but I'm not ruling anything out.

(Side question, I just realized Raiden's blood is red in Rising, how the hell?)
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Re: The Phantom Pain: MGS 5?

Postby Shadowman » Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:33 pm

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BeastProwl wrote:Impossible.
The Cybernetic enhancements Raiden underwent at Area 51 make it impossible for him to survive with a normal body. Even if they are human arms, they are enhanced to suit him cybernetically, as at the time, his body ran on white blood. Thats not to say normal body parts cant be altered to run on the blood, but the fact remains. Those arms arent normal. So I suppose its possible Big Boss got an arm donated to him after this happened, but I'm not ruling anything out.


In MGS2, it's talked about that Raiden has the fake blood there too, and that his regular blood will be returned to him at the end of the mission. I assumed the Patriots reneged on this part of the deal, and his human parts were replaced as the normal ones stopped working, and that both blood and body were restored to normal at the end of MGS4 since everything you said wasn't brought up in-game. And if it is, it's a conversation no one decided to share with me.

BeastProwl wrote:(Side question, I just realized Raiden's blood is red in Rising, how the hell?)


Important MGS rule: Nanomachines. It's always nanomachines.
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Re: The Phantom Pain: MGS 5?

Postby BeastProwl » Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:35 pm

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Weapon: Razor Tipped Wing Swords
I just played through MGS2, dont recall that.

Also, in the japanese version of MGS Rising, his blood is white, at least it is in this trailer. Why it was changed for the rest of us is anyone's guess. Maybe it being white brought on sexual controversy or something.
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Re: The Phantom Pain: MGS 5?

Postby Shadowman » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:41 pm

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
BeastProwl wrote:I just played through MGS2, dont recall that.

Also, in the japanese version of MGS Rising, his blood is white, at least it is in this trailer. Why it was changed for the rest of us is anyone's guess. Maybe it being white brought on sexual controversy or something.


First off, nanomachines.

Second, if the white blood wasn't an issue when he was fighting Vamp I don't think it'd be a problem there.
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Re: The Phantom Pain: MGS 5?

Postby BeastProwl » Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:16 am

Motto: "Planet Exploder"
Weapon: Razor Tipped Wing Swords
Well, it would appear inappropriate to someone who isnt a Gearhead, and since Rising is catering to a to the fans as well as a different demographic, maybe they thought it wouldn't sit well?
"Bloods gotta be red, dafuq's this white ****? Looks more inappropriate than blood and gore on a god tier level because it also resembles semen somewhat"


Phantom Pain. Since Big Boss could have gotten a doner arm at any point after, hell even before MGS3, I'm really puzzled as to WTF is happening here, when its happening, and more importantly, who's invading the hospital. The sarrow doll could be a clue, it being in MGS4 as a tool passed down to Mantis by Ocelot or something. I bet all this crap happened to Snake before MGS3, Volgin, The Boss, etc, and he just cant remember any of it, because Zero f*cked with his head somehow, all of it somehow, probably with Nanomachines that didnt exist yet but they arent really Nanomachines but Nanomachine prototypes. all that leading up to Snake Eater. somehow

Or I'm delusional.
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Re: The Phantom Pain: MGS 5?

Postby Shadowman » Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:11 am

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
BeastProwl wrote:Well, it would appear inappropriate to someone who isnt a Gearhead, and since Rising is catering to a to the fans as well as a different demographic, maybe they thought it wouldn't sit well?
"Bloods gotta be red, dafuq's this white ****? Looks more inappropriate than blood and gore on a god tier level because it also resembles semen somewhat"


Androids in the Aliens movies all have white blood, same with the androids from Ghost in the Shell, and the Geth from Mass Effect. Th Frozeners from Policenauts also have white blood, and since Kojima likes to reference older works of his, Raiden's white blood is a reference to that.

White blood is actually very common in cyberpunk and sci-fi settings.

Vamp sure as hell figured out what it looked like, though, but he's Vamp so, yeah.

BeastProwl wrote:Phantom Pain. Since Big Boss could have gotten a doner arm at any point after, hell even before MGS3, I'm really puzzled as to WTF is happening here, when its happening, and more importantly, who's invading the hospital. The sarrow doll could be a clue, it being in MGS4 as a tool passed down to Mantis by Ocelot or something. I bet all this crap happened to Snake before MGS3, Volgin, The Boss, etc, and he just cant remember any of it, because Zero f*cked with his head somehow, all of it somehow, probably with Nanomachines that didnt exist yet but they arent really Nanomachines but Nanomachine prototypes. all that leading up to Snake Eater. somehow


Couldn't be any of them messing with his head; Zero didn't turn into a supervillain until after Snake Eater, the Boss technically never turned into a supervillain, and Volgin never met Snake until Snake Eater.

And the lead-in to Snake Eater was fairly innocent; a Soviet engineer was forced back to the USSR as part of a deal to settle down the Cuban Missile Crisis. Snake's job was a straight-forward snatch-and-grab. It wasn't until the Boss switched teams and the Philosophers got involved that things started getting tricky.

BeastProwl wrote:Or I'm delusional.


Was that ever in doubt?
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Re: The Phantom Pain: MGS 5?

Postby BeastProwl » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:08 am

Motto: "Planet Exploder"
Weapon: Razor Tipped Wing Swords
Then the removal of it is even more a mystery. Maybe it can be tweaked in the options? I hope so.

Well. Now to play the waiting game I suppose.
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Re: The Phantom Pain: MGS 5?

Postby Shadowman » Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:14 pm

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
Kojima fools none: Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain confirmed.

And it's...Ground Zeroes? Now I'm confused. Hideo strikes again...
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Re: The Phantom Pain: MGS 5?

Postby BeastProwl » Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:49 pm

Motto: "Planet Exploder"
Weapon: Razor Tipped Wing Swords
Placeholder name?

Also, not to nuke a dead horse, but Raiden's skin is artificial, as his body was reconstructed, given the full treatment. (Its how he was able to speak without using his mouth in MGS4, he didnt really have one) So the prosthetics are 100 percent possible. Hell, Big Boss could have been reconstructed from mostly prosthetics in MGS4.

Its also possible, though I doubt they would do it, to save Solid Snake from dying off so early, turning him into a Cyborg to prolong his life, and give him some muscle if needed. In Rising, they never really acknowledge that he's dead, just talk like he might be, so its technically all possible. Its a concept to work with. Hell they may be able to reverse the effects now that all that info from the patriots has leaked. Technology leapt ahead years at the end of SOP.
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Re: The Phantom Pain: MGS 5?

Postby BeastProwl » Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:23 pm

Motto: "Planet Exploder"
Weapon: Razor Tipped Wing Swords
So, ive gathered this much. That demonic fiery dude is Volgin, and the Horse is most likely big bosses old horse. That part of the game is either a dream, or a forced coma filled with VR brought on by zero so the les enfant terre project can get underway. He awakens 9 years after going under, a perfect set up for Outer Heaven since Mother Base got screwed it looks like. Bring in Solid Snake and end it there. Zanzabar land could be on PS4 or DLC or something.
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Re: The Phantom Pain: MGS 5?

Postby Shadowman » Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:53 pm

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
BeastProwl wrote:So, ive gathered this much. That demonic fiery dude is Volgin


It's an apparition, but yes, Volgin.

BeastProwl wrote:and the Horse is most likely big bosses old horse.


Big Boss had a horse? In any case, that's almost certainly Ocelot riding it.

BeastProwl wrote:That part of the game is either a dream, or a forced coma filled with VR brought on by zero


Considering we see a young boy wearing a rather distinctive gas mask....

BeastProwl wrote:so the les enfant terre project can get underway.


The Sons were born in 1972, two years before Peace Walker.

BeastProwl wrote:He awakens 9 years after going under, a perfect set up for Outer Heaven since Mother Base got screwed it looks like.


...how exactly is that a perfect setup for Outer Heaven? I'm missing a step here. In any case, he didn't set up Outer Heaven so he could just have a new base, he set up Outer Heaven so he could start a war. That's why he had Metal Gear.

BeastProwl wrote:Bring in Solid Snake and end it there. Zanzabar land could be on PS4 or DLC or something.


...why bring in Solid Snake, who would be, what, twelve years old at this point?
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Re: The Phantom Pain: MGS 5?

Postby BeastProwl » Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:39 pm

Motto: "Planet Exploder"
Weapon: Razor Tipped Wing Swords
Came up with, gathered, not opinions of my own in any case.

Allright, than what do you suppose is happening then? Why the coma? Why was it NEVER brought up?

I had gathered that wad of random info from another site btw, i'm just as curious and in the dark as you are

And no Big Boss only had the horse for one mission in peacewalker, it originally belonged to "The Boss"

When was Miller assassinated again?
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Re: The Phantom Pain: MGS 5?

Postby Shadowman » Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:44 pm

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
BeastProwl wrote:Allright, than what do you suppose is happening then? Why the coma? Why was it NEVER brought up?


Probably the same reason Peace Walker hadn't been brought up in MGS4: It hadn't been written yet.

BeastProwl wrote:When was Miller assassinated again?


2005. He hadn't been dead long by the time the Shadow Moses Incident went down.
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Re: The Phantom Pain: MGS 5?

Postby craggy » Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:37 am

I've seen it reported that Ground Zeroes will be a different game. The trailer for Phantom Pain has more than a few of the same scenes in it though, so perhaps the two tie together very closely, or Ground Zeroes is sort of a prologue to MGS5?

There's a 3rd person in the hospital, likely the person with the bandages who helps Snake/Boss post-coma. All I've really got from the Ground Zeroes footage is Snake sneaking into a prison of some sorts. This third person with Kaz and Snake could be someone you rescue from the prison. Perhaps that rescue is the event which incites the apparent destruction of Mother Base that we see in this new Phantom Pain trailer?

I'm not 100% on the burned looking man from the trailers (XOF's boss), or the flaming man, or even the Psycho Mantis look-alike (although it is likely him) but I'm pretty sure the guy who comes in riding the horse is Ocelot. Looks just like him. If this is at least 9 years since Ground Zeroes, which itself is a few years after Snake Eater then he's had plenty of time to age.

Big Boss can have a prosthetic arm, and have it explained away very easily. We see a more robotic looking arm at the end of the trailer, and it's likely he has that until his extended coma when everyone is supposed to think he's dead. The original two Metal Gear (no Solid) games even mention Big Boss having become a cyborg as a result of injuries he received in battle.

It does seem like there's a lot of filler stuff being added in between the first Snake's story in MGS3 and the first Metal Gear/Outer Heaven incident, but if any of it is as good as Peace Walker, and it looks like these two games will be, I can't complain. I'd just really hope we do eventually get to Big Boss and Snake facing off in Zanzibar Land again at some point.
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Re: The Phantom Pain: MGS 5?

Postby Shadowman » Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:50 pm

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
craggy wrote:I've seen it reported that Ground Zeroes will be a different game. The trailer for Phantom Pain has more than a few of the same scenes in it though, so perhaps the two tie together very closely, or Ground Zeroes is sort of a prologue to MGS5?


That's pretty much what Kojima said.

craggy wrote:I'm pretty sure the guy who comes in riding the horse is Ocelot. Looks just like him.


I'm 100% certain it is.

craggy wrote:If this is at least 9 years since Ground Zeroes, which itself is a few years after Snake Eater then he's had plenty of time to age.


MGS3 took place in 1964, MGS5 is taking place in 1983. Weird thing is that would only make Ocelot 39, seeing as he was born in 1944.

craggy wrote:Big Boss can have a prosthetic arm, and have it explained away very easily. We see a more robotic looking arm at the end of the trailer, and it's likely he has that until his extended coma when everyone is supposed to think he's dead. The original two Metal Gear (no Solid) games even mention Big Boss having become a cyborg as a result of injuries he received in battle.


Or he lost his arm during whatever put him into the coma. Considering he's shown waking up with a hook-hand...

craggy wrote:I'd just really hope we do eventually get to Big Boss and Snake facing off in Zanzibar Land again at some point.


Actually they already did that one. It was called Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake.
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Re: The Phantom Pain: MGS 5?

Postby craggy » Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:21 pm

Shadowman wrote:
craggy wrote:I've seen it reported that Ground Zeroes will be a different game. The trailer for Phantom Pain has more than a few of the same scenes in it though, so perhaps the two tie together very closely, or Ground Zeroes is sort of a prologue to MGS5?


Shadowman wrote:That's pretty much what Kojima said.
I must have missed that.

craggy wrote:I'm pretty sure the guy who comes in riding the horse is Ocelot. Looks just like him.


Shadowman wrote:I'm 100% certain it is.
I'm pretty sure it is. I'm not 100% certain it is, but will be very surprised if it isn't.

craggy wrote:If this is at least 9 years since Ground Zeroes, which itself is a few years after Snake Eater then he's had plenty of time to age.


Shadowman wrote:MGS3 took place in 1964, MGS5 is taking place in 1983. Weird thing is that would only make Ocelot 39, seeing as he was born in 1944.

He's not ancient looking in that clip.

craggy wrote:Big Boss can have a prosthetic arm, and have it explained away very easily. We see a more robotic looking arm at the end of the trailer, and it's likely he has that until his extended coma when everyone is supposed to think he's dead. The original two Metal Gear (no Solid) games even mention Big Boss having become a cyborg as a result of injuries he received in battle.


Shadowman wrote:Or he lost his arm during whatever put him into the coma. Considering he's shown waking up with a hook-hand...
yeah, I realised that. I was responding to other people's confusions.

craggy wrote:I'd just really hope we do eventually get to Big Boss and Snake facing off in Zanzibar Land again at some point.


Shadowman wrote:Actually they already did that one. It was called Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake.
They already did it? Huh. It's almost as if I knew that, and that's why I said "again" in my original post.

I'm suggesting that since they seem only to be covering old ground, rather than introducing new characters, or making whole new games, not moving on from the end of the story, in what's probably little more than a comfort zone of guaranteed income from fans of the franchise, then they'd probably be better to re-do the events of the original games using modern tech.

With the end of MGS 5 gamers who've played the entire series, or even just the main numbered MGS games will have spent more time playing as Big Boss than we will have Solid Snake. Re-making the original games and putting the points of views of both characters in there would bring things full-circle and could be the pinnacle of much of what the series core themes seem to be.
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Re: The Phantom Pain: MGS 5?

Postby Shadowman » Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:49 pm

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
craggy wrote:I'm suggesting that since they seem only to be covering old ground


They never covered the '80s before.

craggy wrote:rather than introducing new characters


Like the XOF Commander or Bandage Man, or any of the dozens of new characters that are likely to be introduced in the game.

craggy wrote:or making whole new games, not moving on from the end of the story


Like Metal Gear Rising.

craggy wrote:in what's probably little more than a comfort zone of guaranteed income from fans of the franchise, then they'd probably be better to re-do the events of the original games using modern tech.


Which Kojima has stated he really doesn't want to do. He doesn't like remaking games, and the only reason Twin Snakes exists is because he wanted to ensure Snake's position in Super Smash Bros.

craggy wrote:With the end of MGS 5 gamers who've played the entire series, or even just the main numbered MGS games will have spent more time playing as Big Boss than we will have Solid Snake.


With just the numbered games? Snake has five titles he's been playable in, (Including Sons of Liberty) while Big Boss only had two, Snake Eater and Phantom Pain. Including the PSP games? That still only brings Big Boss up to four, and if Ground Zeroes really is a separate game, five...and Snake up to seven, if you want to include Acid. And Snake's Revenge and Ghost Babel bring Snake up to nine.

If you don't include the original MSX games, or the PSP games or side games or what have you, it's still 3-to-2, or just 1:1 if you don't include Sons of Liberty. With the new game(s) on the way, Big Boss can only manage to tie with Snake.

craggy wrote:Re-making the original games and putting the points of views of both characters in there would bring things full-circle and could be the pinnacle of much of what the series core themes seem to be.


They already closed the circle with Big Boss having a heart-to-heart with Snake. Never mind the fact that Big Boss was, by the time Outer Heaven happened, a straight-up villain who planning to use Metal Gear in order to incite a constant state of world-wide war, and is actively trying to get Snake killed.
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Re: The Phantom Pain: MGS 5?

Postby Wigglez » Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:28 pm

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So Phantom Pain is MGS5. I hate being wrong. But what I hate more is that David Hayter isn't the voice of Snake in this. :sad:
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Re: The Phantom Pain: MGS 5?

Postby Shadowman » Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:58 pm

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Wigglez wrote:So Phantom Pain is MGS5. I hate being wrong. But what I hate more is that David Hayter isn't the voice of Snake in this. :sad:


It cuts like a knife, to be sure, but it DOES make some sense:

1. Solid Snake, even IF he's in the game, would only be eleven years old, and thus having David Hayter voice him would be weird.

2. Big Boss had a different voice actor in MGS4 as well, Richard Doyle, who could possibly be the one voicing him now. Alternatively, John Cygan would also make a lot of sense as his new voice actor. (Seeing as he voiced Solidus, Big Boss's unmodified clone)
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Re: The Phantom Pain: MGS 5?

Postby BeastProwl » Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:08 pm

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Well, kojima wouldn't be remaking 1 and 2 so much as making 2 new games with a simular story to 1 and 2, but, you know, modernized. Filling in ALL the gaps.
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Re: The Phantom Pain: MGS 5?

Postby Shadowman » Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:52 pm

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
BeastProwl wrote:Well, kojima wouldn't be remaking 1 and 2 so much as making 2 new games with a simular story to 1 and 2, but, you know, modernized.


Except...you know, a game where you play as Big Boss during the events of Outer Heaven would be god awful. You'd repeatedly try to kill Solid Snake, only to constantly fail, only to get blown right the hell up. A remake of MG2 would be the same, except instead of being blown up, you get set on fire and are put into a medically-induced coma for the next fifteen years.

Sounds like a fun game, huh?

BeastProwl wrote:Filling in ALL the gaps.


What gaps? We already know the who, what, when, where, why, and how of it all.

Just say you want remakes of the first two games. Because I know that's what you really mean.
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Re: The Phantom Pain: MGS 5?

Postby BeastProwl » Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:44 am

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Not gaps, per se, just show certain things you only hear about. And Snake's upbringing and training and such would be cool too. Getting to see him develope into the Snake from MGS1 from a green soldier would be awesome.

Getting to see the cloning process.

Also, no, you wouldn't play as Big Boss. You would play as Solid Snake. Is it so strange that I want more than explanations for certain things? Getting to play through them by today's standards would be a treat, not to mention all the potential modern mg1 and 2 remakes would have. All the bosses revamped, the fights upscaled, the maps redone with little to no backtracking, etc.

Actually fight metal gear, then Big Boss, and grey fox (Hell yes, a fourth time!) . After playing all the other games, I cant bring myself to take the MSX games and their explanations seriously, im sorry.
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Re: The Phantom Pain: MGS 5?

Postby Shadowman » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:02 am

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
BeastProwl wrote:Not gaps, per se, just show certain things you only hear about. And Snake's upbringing and training and such would be cool too.


Which all happened before Outer Heaven.

BeastProwl wrote:Getting to see the cloning process.


Which happened before Peace Walker.

BeastProwl wrote:Is it so strange that I want more than explanations for certain things?


Yes. What else from the original games could they possible cover?

BeastProwl wrote:Getting to play through them by today's standards would be a treat, not to mention all the potential modern mg1 and 2 remakes would have. All the bosses revamped, the fights upscaled, the maps redone with little to no backtracking, etc.


Which Kojima said he doesn't want to do. And even so, what's the point? It doesn't need to be remade, it's still a good game.

BeastProwl wrote:Actually fight metal gear, then Big Boss, and grey fox (Hell yes, a fourth time!) .


"Actually" fight? Did you even play the original games? Because you actually do fight them.

BeastProwl wrote:After playing all the other games, I cant bring myself to take the MSX games and their explanations seriously, im sorry.


I don't know what that means. Also...you know, a lot of the explanations around the Tragedy of Big Boss (The official name for the prequel games. Three guesses why it's called that) came from MGS4, not the MSX games.
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Re: The Phantom Pain: MGS 5?

Postby BeastProwl » Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:20 pm

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In MSX metal gear 1, you never fought Metal Gear. You blew up its legs with C4 and dodged laser fire from wall mounted guns. The fight with Big Boss was just rocket rocket rocket now run!

His explanation was basically "I led you on to leak false intel but youve gone too far, now die"
Its just not satisfying.

I also never finished MG2. I just read up on that one and used my imagination, so yeah, im missing a bit of intel there.

I know Kojima doesnt want to remake 1 and 2, but were else would the series go? My main gripe is that the MSX games dont live up to the current titles, and I dont expect them too, it just makes them feel like they are a different series altogether. Not complex and deep enough. Retelling those old stories for the modern era in a modern way just seems like the next logical step.

But as for the other stuff you mentioned, god, do you just have a copy of the metal gear timeline I could borrow? I dont have that stuff memorized like you seem to. When they were cloned, etc...
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Transformers Podcast: Twincast / Podcast #104 - Wrath of Con
Twincast / Podcast #104:
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