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The Phantom Pain: MGS 5?

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Re: The Phantom Pain: MGS 5?

Postby Shadowman » Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:50 pm

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craggy wrote:I've seen it reported that Ground Zeroes will be a different game. The trailer for Phantom Pain has more than a few of the same scenes in it though, so perhaps the two tie together very closely, or Ground Zeroes is sort of a prologue to MGS5?


That's pretty much what Kojima said.

craggy wrote:I'm pretty sure the guy who comes in riding the horse is Ocelot. Looks just like him.


I'm 100% certain it is.

craggy wrote:If this is at least 9 years since Ground Zeroes, which itself is a few years after Snake Eater then he's had plenty of time to age.


MGS3 took place in 1964, MGS5 is taking place in 1983. Weird thing is that would only make Ocelot 39, seeing as he was born in 1944.

craggy wrote:Big Boss can have a prosthetic arm, and have it explained away very easily. We see a more robotic looking arm at the end of the trailer, and it's likely he has that until his extended coma when everyone is supposed to think he's dead. The original two Metal Gear (no Solid) games even mention Big Boss having become a cyborg as a result of injuries he received in battle.


Or he lost his arm during whatever put him into the coma. Considering he's shown waking up with a hook-hand...

craggy wrote:I'd just really hope we do eventually get to Big Boss and Snake facing off in Zanzibar Land again at some point.


Actually they already did that one. It was called Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake.
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Re: The Phantom Pain: MGS 5?

Postby craggy » Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:21 pm

Shadowman wrote:
craggy wrote:I've seen it reported that Ground Zeroes will be a different game. The trailer for Phantom Pain has more than a few of the same scenes in it though, so perhaps the two tie together very closely, or Ground Zeroes is sort of a prologue to MGS5?


Shadowman wrote:That's pretty much what Kojima said.
I must have missed that.

craggy wrote:I'm pretty sure the guy who comes in riding the horse is Ocelot. Looks just like him.


Shadowman wrote:I'm 100% certain it is.
I'm pretty sure it is. I'm not 100% certain it is, but will be very surprised if it isn't.

craggy wrote:If this is at least 9 years since Ground Zeroes, which itself is a few years after Snake Eater then he's had plenty of time to age.


Shadowman wrote:MGS3 took place in 1964, MGS5 is taking place in 1983. Weird thing is that would only make Ocelot 39, seeing as he was born in 1944.

He's not ancient looking in that clip.

craggy wrote:Big Boss can have a prosthetic arm, and have it explained away very easily. We see a more robotic looking arm at the end of the trailer, and it's likely he has that until his extended coma when everyone is supposed to think he's dead. The original two Metal Gear (no Solid) games even mention Big Boss having become a cyborg as a result of injuries he received in battle.


Shadowman wrote:Or he lost his arm during whatever put him into the coma. Considering he's shown waking up with a hook-hand...
yeah, I realised that. I was responding to other people's confusions.

craggy wrote:I'd just really hope we do eventually get to Big Boss and Snake facing off in Zanzibar Land again at some point.


Shadowman wrote:Actually they already did that one. It was called Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake.
They already did it? Huh. It's almost as if I knew that, and that's why I said "again" in my original post.

I'm suggesting that since they seem only to be covering old ground, rather than introducing new characters, or making whole new games, not moving on from the end of the story, in what's probably little more than a comfort zone of guaranteed income from fans of the franchise, then they'd probably be better to re-do the events of the original games using modern tech.

With the end of MGS 5 gamers who've played the entire series, or even just the main numbered MGS games will have spent more time playing as Big Boss than we will have Solid Snake. Re-making the original games and putting the points of views of both characters in there would bring things full-circle and could be the pinnacle of much of what the series core themes seem to be.
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Re: The Phantom Pain: MGS 5?

Postby Shadowman » Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:49 pm

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craggy wrote:I'm suggesting that since they seem only to be covering old ground


They never covered the '80s before.

craggy wrote:rather than introducing new characters


Like the XOF Commander or Bandage Man, or any of the dozens of new characters that are likely to be introduced in the game.

craggy wrote:or making whole new games, not moving on from the end of the story


Like Metal Gear Rising.

craggy wrote:in what's probably little more than a comfort zone of guaranteed income from fans of the franchise, then they'd probably be better to re-do the events of the original games using modern tech.


Which Kojima has stated he really doesn't want to do. He doesn't like remaking games, and the only reason Twin Snakes exists is because he wanted to ensure Snake's position in Super Smash Bros.

craggy wrote:With the end of MGS 5 gamers who've played the entire series, or even just the main numbered MGS games will have spent more time playing as Big Boss than we will have Solid Snake.


With just the numbered games? Snake has five titles he's been playable in, (Including Sons of Liberty) while Big Boss only had two, Snake Eater and Phantom Pain. Including the PSP games? That still only brings Big Boss up to four, and if Ground Zeroes really is a separate game, five...and Snake up to seven, if you want to include Acid. And Snake's Revenge and Ghost Babel bring Snake up to nine.

If you don't include the original MSX games, or the PSP games or side games or what have you, it's still 3-to-2, or just 1:1 if you don't include Sons of Liberty. With the new game(s) on the way, Big Boss can only manage to tie with Snake.

craggy wrote:Re-making the original games and putting the points of views of both characters in there would bring things full-circle and could be the pinnacle of much of what the series core themes seem to be.


They already closed the circle with Big Boss having a heart-to-heart with Snake. Never mind the fact that Big Boss was, by the time Outer Heaven happened, a straight-up villain who planning to use Metal Gear in order to incite a constant state of world-wide war, and is actively trying to get Snake killed.
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Re: The Phantom Pain: MGS 5?

Postby Wigglez » Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:28 pm

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So Phantom Pain is MGS5. I hate being wrong. But what I hate more is that David Hayter isn't the voice of Snake in this. :sad:
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Re: The Phantom Pain: MGS 5?

Postby Shadowman » Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:58 pm

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
Wigglez wrote:So Phantom Pain is MGS5. I hate being wrong. But what I hate more is that David Hayter isn't the voice of Snake in this. :sad:


It cuts like a knife, to be sure, but it DOES make some sense:

1. Solid Snake, even IF he's in the game, would only be eleven years old, and thus having David Hayter voice him would be weird.

2. Big Boss had a different voice actor in MGS4 as well, Richard Doyle, who could possibly be the one voicing him now. Alternatively, John Cygan would also make a lot of sense as his new voice actor. (Seeing as he voiced Solidus, Big Boss's unmodified clone)
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Re: The Phantom Pain: MGS 5?

Postby BeastProwl » Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:08 pm

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Well, kojima wouldn't be remaking 1 and 2 so much as making 2 new games with a simular story to 1 and 2, but, you know, modernized. Filling in ALL the gaps.
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Re: The Phantom Pain: MGS 5?

Postby Shadowman » Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:52 pm

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
BeastProwl wrote:Well, kojima wouldn't be remaking 1 and 2 so much as making 2 new games with a simular story to 1 and 2, but, you know, modernized.


Except...you know, a game where you play as Big Boss during the events of Outer Heaven would be god awful. You'd repeatedly try to kill Solid Snake, only to constantly fail, only to get blown right the hell up. A remake of MG2 would be the same, except instead of being blown up, you get set on fire and are put into a medically-induced coma for the next fifteen years.

Sounds like a fun game, huh?

BeastProwl wrote:Filling in ALL the gaps.


What gaps? We already know the who, what, when, where, why, and how of it all.

Just say you want remakes of the first two games. Because I know that's what you really mean.
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Re: The Phantom Pain: MGS 5?

Postby BeastProwl » Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:44 am

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Not gaps, per se, just show certain things you only hear about. And Snake's upbringing and training and such would be cool too. Getting to see him develope into the Snake from MGS1 from a green soldier would be awesome.

Getting to see the cloning process.

Also, no, you wouldn't play as Big Boss. You would play as Solid Snake. Is it so strange that I want more than explanations for certain things? Getting to play through them by today's standards would be a treat, not to mention all the potential modern mg1 and 2 remakes would have. All the bosses revamped, the fights upscaled, the maps redone with little to no backtracking, etc.

Actually fight metal gear, then Big Boss, and grey fox (Hell yes, a fourth time!) . After playing all the other games, I cant bring myself to take the MSX games and their explanations seriously, im sorry.
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Re: The Phantom Pain: MGS 5?

Postby Shadowman » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:02 am

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
BeastProwl wrote:Not gaps, per se, just show certain things you only hear about. And Snake's upbringing and training and such would be cool too.


Which all happened before Outer Heaven.

BeastProwl wrote:Getting to see the cloning process.


Which happened before Peace Walker.

BeastProwl wrote:Is it so strange that I want more than explanations for certain things?


Yes. What else from the original games could they possible cover?

BeastProwl wrote:Getting to play through them by today's standards would be a treat, not to mention all the potential modern mg1 and 2 remakes would have. All the bosses revamped, the fights upscaled, the maps redone with little to no backtracking, etc.


Which Kojima said he doesn't want to do. And even so, what's the point? It doesn't need to be remade, it's still a good game.

BeastProwl wrote:Actually fight metal gear, then Big Boss, and grey fox (Hell yes, a fourth time!) .


"Actually" fight? Did you even play the original games? Because you actually do fight them.

BeastProwl wrote:After playing all the other games, I cant bring myself to take the MSX games and their explanations seriously, im sorry.


I don't know what that means. Also...you know, a lot of the explanations around the Tragedy of Big Boss (The official name for the prequel games. Three guesses why it's called that) came from MGS4, not the MSX games.
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Re: The Phantom Pain: MGS 5?

Postby BeastProwl » Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:20 pm

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In MSX metal gear 1, you never fought Metal Gear. You blew up its legs with C4 and dodged laser fire from wall mounted guns. The fight with Big Boss was just rocket rocket rocket now run!

His explanation was basically "I led you on to leak false intel but youve gone too far, now die"
Its just not satisfying.

I also never finished MG2. I just read up on that one and used my imagination, so yeah, im missing a bit of intel there.

I know Kojima doesnt want to remake 1 and 2, but were else would the series go? My main gripe is that the MSX games dont live up to the current titles, and I dont expect them too, it just makes them feel like they are a different series altogether. Not complex and deep enough. Retelling those old stories for the modern era in a modern way just seems like the next logical step.

But as for the other stuff you mentioned, god, do you just have a copy of the metal gear timeline I could borrow? I dont have that stuff memorized like you seem to. When they were cloned, etc...
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Re: The Phantom Pain: MGS 5?

Postby Shadowman » Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:04 pm

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
BeastProwl wrote:In MSX metal gear 1, you never fought Metal Gear. You blew up its legs with C4 and dodged laser fire from wall mounted guns.


As opposed to blowing it up with a Stinger launcher. How is that any different?

BeastProwl wrote:His explanation was basically "I led you on to leak false intel but youve gone too far, now die"
Its just not satisfying.


How is that not a satisfactory explanation? He was using his position as CO of FOXHOUND in order to deliver false information to Snake, keeping his identity as commander of Outer Heaven a secret while at the same time making it seem as though he tried to solve the issue. What else could you want?

BeastProwl wrote:I also never finished MG2. I just read up on that one and used my imagination, so yeah, im missing a bit of intel there.


You actually do fight Metal Gear, Grey Fox, and Big Boss. In that order, if I remember right.

BeastProwl wrote:But as for the other stuff you mentioned, god, do you just have a copy of the metal gear timeline I could borrow? I dont have that stuff memorized like you seem to. When they were cloned, etc...


At the end of MGS3, they have a timeline of certain events, the birth of the Sons of Big Boss is listed as 1972. The cloning process...well, knowing how cloning goes down, it wouldn't exactly be a gripping story. They toy around with reproductive fluids, then did in vitro fertilization with Eva. Then they waited nine months. Why you would want to see that is beyond me, it would be, for lack of a better term, mind-blowingly boring.
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Re: The Phantom Pain: MGS 5?

Postby craggy » Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:35 am

semantics and lack of discussion are fun. Hope you all enjoy the game.
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Re: The Phantom Pain: MGS 5?

Postby BeastProwl » Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:03 pm

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craggy wrote:semantics and lack of discussion are fun.

I know right?
craggy wrote:Hope you all enjoy the game

I know I will!
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Re: The Phantom Pain: MGS 5?

Postby Shadowman » Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:17 pm

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
craggy wrote:Hope you all enjoy the game.


It's Metal Gear, how can we not? They made playing as a naked guy fun!
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Re: The Phantom Pain: MGS 5?

Postby craggy » Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:55 pm

Shadowman wrote:
craggy wrote:Hope you all enjoy the game.


It's Metal Gear, how can we not? They made playing as a naked guy fun!

you mean playing with naked men isn't always fun?
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Re: The Phantom Pain: MGS 5?

Postby Shadowman » Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:02 pm

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
craggy wrote:
Shadowman wrote:
craggy wrote:Hope you all enjoy the game.


It's Metal Gear, how can we not? They made playing as a naked guy fun!

you mean playing with naked men isn't always fun?


Not typically, no.
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Re: The Phantom Pain: MGS 5?

Postby BeastProwl » Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:52 pm

Motto: "Planet Exploder"
Weapon: Razor Tipped Wing Swords
Did you guys see the "Red Band" trailer for MGSV?
Its too graphic to embed, I think, so here
**** got real on like 18 different levels...
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Re: The Phantom Pain: MGS 5?

Postby BeastProwl » Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:15 pm

Motto: "Planet Exploder"
Weapon: Razor Tipped Wing Swords

FOund a watered down version.
Still, look up that red band trailer. Its...**** up man...
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