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The real Autobot Savior Argument Thread

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Re: The real Autobot Savior Argument Thread

Postby Absolute Zero » Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:14 pm

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Phaze wrote:
Absolute Zero wrote:
alldarker wrote:Nah, at the end of the day it's not about XP or gains or winning some pissing match. I'm having fun with this, hoping not to get TOO serious, but I like a scrap. You know, I can be all things to all men (and especially to all women). It was always about contesting your claim that YOU were THE Autobot Saviour: I wasn't even after the title until it got turned into a poll... I just don't like being led; call it spirit or stubbornness or even pigheadedness... And like you I don't mind biting the troll-bait if necessary.


Now that I have enough time to make a more thoughtout post.

Savior does not equal leader. Or at least not defacto leader. If people follow a savior, it's because they agree with what that person says.

I don't take this stuff seriously (or at least I don't when I'm not depressed) but I will admit, I do get pissed when you do things like call out Zordon, claiming his bots are weak and need to level down and blahblahblah. And I didn't like when you pulled the "You can't post that here, that's not good enough" on the high scores thread.

All that said, I've gotta go see Calanderman in Arkham City. It's one of the days you need to talk to him.

or you could just set the ps3 or xbox's date manually to the dates and get it out the way in under an hour :lol:


Yeah, I know you can do that, but since I beat the game now, I need a reason to hang onto it. Aside from running around in the Beyond outfit.
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Re: The real Autobot Savior Argument Thread

Postby Phaze » Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:22 pm

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Absolute Zero wrote:
Phaze wrote:
Absolute Zero wrote:
alldarker wrote:Nah, at the end of the day it's not about XP or gains or winning some pissing match. I'm having fun with this, hoping not to get TOO serious, but I like a scrap. You know, I can be all things to all men (and especially to all women). It was always about contesting your claim that YOU were THE Autobot Saviour: I wasn't even after the title until it got turned into a poll... I just don't like being led; call it spirit or stubbornness or even pigheadedness... And like you I don't mind biting the troll-bait if necessary.


Now that I have enough time to make a more thoughtout post.

Savior does not equal leader. Or at least not defacto leader. If people follow a savior, it's because they agree with what that person says.

I don't take this stuff seriously (or at least I don't when I'm not depressed) but I will admit, I do get pissed when you do things like call out Zordon, claiming his bots are weak and need to level down and blahblahblah. And I didn't like when you pulled the "You can't post that here, that's not good enough" on the high scores thread.

All that said, I've gotta go see Calanderman in Arkham City. It's one of the days you need to talk to him.

or you could just set the ps3 or xbox's date manually to the dates and get it out the way in under an hour :lol:


Yeah, I know you can do that, but since I beat the game now, I need a reason to hang onto it. Aside from running around in the Beyond outfit.

you finished game plus?
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Re: The real Autobot Savior Argument Thread

Postby _Anshin_ » Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:34 pm

Wait. How do you change outfits?
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Re: The real Autobot Savior Argument Thread

Postby Phaze » Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:39 pm

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_Anshin_ wrote:Wait. How do you change outfits?

finish the game or play the challenge rooms
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Re: The real Autobot Savior Argument Thread

Postby Wrath » Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:58 pm

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alldarker wrote:
Absolute Zero wrote:
alldarker wrote:Steve2275 - "God of Transformers"
10's on ALL stats with XP to spare... You bet he was pissed off when the crash happened, more than most. Definitely someone to look up to.

He wasn't the only one. Sprokitz and Snapcase did too.

That's true... I'll admit to being small-fry back then, but it was always fun to be in a mission with those guys, not just getting your own hits, but just seeing them rack up the XP counts. With a repairer in the mix, these guys were sometimes racking in 250,000+ XP per mission, if I remember correctly. Anyone know what the record XP haul was back then?


I don't know what the record is for highest haul in a mission, but here is the highest I have recorded.

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As well as my own best score

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Re: The real Autobot Savior Argument Thread

Postby Burn » Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:10 pm

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bahahahaha Nurse Erica ... oh man that was a fun one. All those terrible "I wish Nurse Erica would touch up my paint job" jokes ...
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Re: The real Autobot Savior Argument Thread

Postby Absolute Zero » Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:21 pm

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Phaze wrote:
Absolute Zero wrote:
Phaze wrote:
Absolute Zero wrote:
alldarker wrote:Nah, at the end of the day it's not about XP or gains or winning some pissing match. I'm having fun with this, hoping not to get TOO serious, but I like a scrap. You know, I can be all things to all men (and especially to all women). It was always about contesting your claim that YOU were THE Autobot Saviour: I wasn't even after the title until it got turned into a poll... I just don't like being led; call it spirit or stubbornness or even pigheadedness... And like you I don't mind biting the troll-bait if necessary.


Now that I have enough time to make a more thoughtout post.

Savior does not equal leader. Or at least not defacto leader. If people follow a savior, it's because they agree with what that person says.

I don't take this stuff seriously (or at least I don't when I'm not depressed) but I will admit, I do get pissed when you do things like call out Zordon, claiming his bots are weak and need to level down and blahblahblah. And I didn't like when you pulled the "You can't post that here, that's not good enough" on the high scores thread.

All that said, I've gotta go see Calanderman in Arkham City. It's one of the days you need to talk to him.

or you could just set the ps3 or xbox's date manually to the dates and get it out the way in under an hour :lol:


Yeah, I know you can do that, but since I beat the game now, I need a reason to hang onto it. Aside from running around in the Beyond outfit.

you finished game plus?


No, but considering how rarely I run through a game a second time, I probably wont unless I have it for a long time. Besides, Battlefield 3 is out, COD:MW3 is coming out, so is Assassins Creed, UC3, and a whole bunch of other games.
_Anshin_ wrote:Wait. How do you change outfits?


Once you finish the main story, you can swap outfits, and play new game +, and challenge stuff. And when you keep going after the main story, you can swap between Batman and Catwoman.
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Re: The real Autobot Savior Argument Thread

Postby Absolute Zero » Sat Nov 12, 2011 11:23 am

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_Anshin_ wrote:
Absolute Zero wrote:You must not pay attention at all to this game. *shakes head* I might have to take a month off if Anshin wins our race.

Ok, this isn't exactly rocket science, but follow me here. If you have more XP, you gain more XP. It's pretty simple. More XP means more upgrades/more condensed upgrades, means better performance. It's effectively why a strong configuration will typically beat out a fast configuration. It's the way the game has always worked. That and the RNG will from time to time alternate between dumping on you, and making you a hero. If you haven't figured this part out by now, then you probably never will.


So if I understand your logic, Fast builds = More XP but Solid builds = Faster More XP?
See, I hate to say it... but I am honestly confused with your logic on this. Normally I keep up with what you are both (AD and AZ) are saying, but this seems to be circular logic with me. Darq and Gauntlet (our little race) have a huge difference in XP. However we have relatively the same amount of upgrades (One two points from 8 for me and one to put you into 8 ). That said and done Gauntlet just passed Anshin who was level 6 up till Friday morning when I accidentally clicked on an upgrade thinking it was the calculator. Last I checked he was 200k ahead of Anshin who would have been 9 upgrades behind him in a condensed upgrade (solid build). So when we started our little game on Monday with your logic Anshin should have always out paced Gauntlet due to more XP except that Gauntlet is a level higher so he should have gotten more XP which negates the more XP that Anshin had and now negates the XP that Darq generates because you are a higher amount of upgrades than Darq? :HEADHURTS:

Either way I say we take this to the AZ/AD thread and leave this for the Mini Games comments.



Level running can generate good XP for an individual bot, not always for the whole team. It can take time for the builds to hit their stride. To be honest, once I level Gauntlet up to 8, he's going to be under performing again, even though he should still be making the same XP. I have also been skipping school and playing more (7:30 AM til midnight/1AM), and got real lucky with the RNG for a bit. Also, I run medics, which gives me access to more XP over all than people not running them. If that doesn't explain how Gauntlet has been moving up in rank and passing people, I don't know what will. But, no, I simply used your argument to me before, about how not running, means you survive more. Which is true. At best, I have about a 60-70% survival rate for my team. Now, I know from past experience that if I were to level down, and make a power build, I could get that number higher, and get more missions where I come out untouched, meaning I can immediately redeploy and earn more XP on bots. You were absolutely right on that part. When I first started playing this game, pre-reset, well, hurricane related reset (I've twice had my entire team wiped from reset) you had to have 100k to level up to level 1. You couldn't spend that much at 0, but that meant you could have 4 upgrades in one stat and sat on the rest to help when you did level up. It doesn't sound like much, except you're fighting guys with no upgrades, that 4 makes a difference. 250k til level 2 also. That's pretty much how ROS played the game. That and 24 hours. Think about it, who was he feeding off of above his level, when there wasn't any? If you have more XP, you are always going to make more, whether you run or sit. If you sit, you'll pull more and more of the potential XP out of a mission, which makes it harder for others to make XP and blahblahblah, already made that argument several times. Here's another way to think about it, if your power builds, which are typically 1-2 levels below what a runner would make with the same XP, weren't expected to be able to pull more XP than anyone at their level, or a runner, why would they be sitting below where they could be earning more per hit? That's pretty much been the argument right?

tl;dr version - more xp means you can choke out everyone else in a mission and earn more XP from it, if you're not running. If you're running, you have to work harder for your XP. Being a medic generates a lot more XP than not being a medic. More overall XP means you expect to earn more. Also, growth % tends to be weighted to the lower levels.
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Re: The real Autobot Savior Argument Thread

Postby _Anshin_ » Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:37 pm

Sorry would have responded sooner but server melted down and I can't type worth crap from my phone.

First thanks for responding to me here and being diplomatic about it. For some reason I think you took what I wrote to you as a jab (or maybe I read your response wrong). It wasn't. I see both sides of the argument, even though I've got my foot firmly planted on one side.

With that being said, ROS feeds off of N_V, and for the most part from what I have read has always done so (Even level partners and such). Sure he bottleknecks up certain areas and even comes through because of his higher level dominance.

Your argument is that you are moving up levels to get the chance to pull more XP off of higher level targets. AD's argument (at least I think it is) is that your able to pull more xp off of your proper level targets. Moving to higher levels with "Fast" builds typically ends up with more wipes and random high hits. So long story short, you take the look of "Gotta play big to win big" and his is "Slow and steady wins the race". Both are valid play styles. However, this is where your argument lost me in the other thread. You claim he is able to pull more XP just because he has more XP and has been able to build strong characters. That I will agree with. However you are also saying that in the same statement that you are able to pull more XP with faster builds even though you have less XP and that you would be able to do more if you had his XP.

My point was to make was that Darq who is 1 point behind your speed build is the same level as Gauntlet. Darq has double of Gauntlet's XP but doesn't choke out the missions that he shares with Gauntlet. In fact most times we are trading spots in terms of who earns more XP. This has nothing to do with tactics as Gauntlet for the past day has done less than 1 repair per match. Gauntlet does however Ram at least 1-2x a match. His damage taken is roughly 57% and has been shut down (Stasis locked) at least 7 times in recording time since Friday when I started watching him to see how we would do this weekend. This is just shy behind Darq whose average damage taken is 31% and has been shut down 4 times. However our XP growth difference is roughly the same, where I have had a chance to play more because I work in a server farm where I can sit behind my monitor or in a meeting with a phone in my lap and play. Anshin however is now at level 7 (again my screw up, and I have to wait for my form to cycle through) but only 100k behind you now where we have the same points.

I do agree with you that people that play more make more XP, however I still disagree with your logic.

Also growth % does not have as much to do with lower levels as much as it does have to do with XP earned from prior weeks. For example this week's XP growth is true. If we look at last weeks it would have only been for 5 days and appeared to be much lower than the week's before at 9. With that said I actually had a higher XP growth of 7.19% for the week before of 5 days than I did with the 7 day week. That is primarily because I was gone for three days and therefore generated less XP. I was however on par with XP generation with Zordon who has primarily builds of Repairers.

tl;dr: I didn't understand what you said. I understand now. I see where you are coming from but you still have flaws in your logic.
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Re: The real Autobot Savior Argument Thread

Postby Absolute Zero » Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:50 pm

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This is long, gonna break it up so I can try to stay on target.

_Anshin_ wrote:Sorry would have responded sooner but server melted down and I can't type worth crap from my phone.


No worries, I get the problem.

First thanks for responding to me here and being diplomatic about it. For some reason I think you took what I wrote to you as a jab (or maybe I read your response wrong). It wasn't. I see both sides of the argument, even though I've got my foot firmly planted on one side.


Also, no worries. I probably should have moved it over instead of responding to AD in the first place. I don't think I took it as a jab, I tend to get frustrated with myself though, and sometimes that colours how I phrase things.

With that being said, ROS feeds off of N_V, and for the most part from what I have read has always done so (Even level partners and such). Sure he bottleknecks up certain areas and even comes through because of his higher level dominance.


ROS didn't always have N_V to feed off specifically. He used to be an arena person, and didn't start coming to missions until he was pretty far ahead of most people. Once N_V started pulling ahead of the pack, thats when they started feeding each other, if memory serves, but by that point, ROS was already tops. And trust me, in the arena, those power builds will dominate and crush opposition. Pre-hurrican, I ran through a bunch of arena matches with a guy without taking any damage. When you can redeploy every 20 minutes, you can rake in XP. Missions tend to offer higher pay outs, but take longer.Losing focus... next topic.

Your argument is that you are moving up levels to get the chance to pull more XP off of higher level targets. AD's argument (at least I think it is) is that your able to pull more xp off of your proper level targets. Moving to higher levels with "Fast" builds typically ends up with more wipes and random high hits. So long story short, you take the look of "Gotta play big to win big" and his is "Slow and steady wins the race". Both are valid play styles. However, this is where your argument lost me in the other thread. You claim he is able to pull more XP just because he has more XP and has been able to build strong characters. That I will agree with. However you are also saying that in the same statement that you are able to pull more XP with faster builds even though you have less XP and that you would be able to do more if you had his XP.


I can pull good XP with my fast builds, because everyone is a target. If I was running strafe/ram or ram/avoid or strafe/avoid, my XP would be way way down. But because I use repair, I can pretty much double my potential XP while I level run and free up my spots in the lower levels for other people, however, I've been playing this game for long enough that I would be a fool to not know that if you have more XP, you're going to gain more XP. Someone with double the XP, should be gaining double the XP of me, assuming simular play habits. Otherwise, I wouldn't have a hard time of catching you or AD in the overall rank. It's illustrated on my team. Karma, Desert Wind, and Stickshift are all playing significantly less right now (less than half the deployments), while I run my top 3 and bottom 3 available every deployment, but their gain has been the same as those behind them. They have more XP, thus a better build, they gain more than those behind them, or would gain more, if they were being deployed as much.

My point was to make was that Darq who is 1 point behind your speed build is the same level as Gauntlet. Darq has double of Gauntlet's XP but doesn't choke out the missions that he shares with Gauntlet. In fact most times we are trading spots in terms of who earns more XP. This has nothing to do with tactics as Gauntlet for the past day has done less than 1 repair per match. Gauntlet does however Ram at least 1-2x a match. His damage taken is roughly 57% and has been shut down (Stasis locked) at least 7 times in recording time since Friday when I started watching him to see how we would do this weekend. This is just shy behind Darq whose average damage taken is 31% and has been shut down 4 times. However our XP growth difference is roughly the same, where I have had a chance to play more because I work in a server farm where I can sit behind my monitor or in a meeting with a phone in my lap and play. Anshin however is now at level 7 (again my screw up, and I have to wait for my form to cycle through) but only 100k behind you now where we have the same points.


Responding out of order for this... You could just hunt his alt to get it back instead of waiting. Once we get to the higher levels, and we don't have as many opponents, it's not as likely that a strong build will choke out people. I like to think that it's mostly due to the builds becoming more level. Most of the choking occurs sub6 level. I've been tracking Gauntlet since before the race, so if you're curious, as of right now, he's averaging 17k a mission (he's dropped off a lot since wednesday) while surviving an average of 60% of all deployments, with about a 1:1 kill/death ratio over 90 deployments.

I do agree with you that people that play more make more XP, however I still disagree with your logic.


That's fine. I might disagree with it too later. :lol: I'm not to proud to admit that I'm wrong.

Also growth % does not have as much to do with lower levels as much as it does have to do with XP earned from prior weeks. For example this week's XP growth is true. If we look at last weeks it would have only been for 5 days and appeared to be much lower than the week's before at 9. With that said I actually had a higher XP growth of 7.19% for the week before of 5 days than I did with the 7 day week. That is primarily because I was gone for three days and therefore generated less XP. I was however on par with XP generation with Zordon who has primarily builds of Repairers.


This part I will disagree with you on. Typically, the % of increase (not how much you gain, but how that rates against your total) has always typically been higher for the lower levels, simply because they need less to get a great gain. If your team has 100k XP, and you manage to pull 10k from a couple of 1-11 missions, congrats, you've earned 10% of your XP for the week. If you have 100m XP, earning 10m is not quite as simple. That's why I had a higher rank in % gained than actual XP gained. I have less, so I need less for the % to be higher.

tl;dr: I didn't understand what you said. I understand now. I see where you are coming from but you still have flaws in your logic.


I would like to think I have more flaws in how I convey information than my logic.
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Re: The real Autobot Savior Argument Thread

Postby _Anshin_ » Sat Nov 12, 2011 5:33 pm

Absolute Zero wrote:
I can pull good XP with my fast builds, because everyone is a target. If I was running strafe/ram or ram/avoid or strafe/avoid, my XP would be way way down. But because I use repair, I can pretty much double my potential XP while I level run and free up my spots in the lower levels for other people, however, I've been playing this game for long enough that I would be a fool to not know that if you have more XP, you're going to gain more XP. Someone with double the XP, should be gaining double the XP of me, assuming simular play habits. Otherwise, I wouldn't have a hard time of catching you or AD in the overall rank. It's illustrated on my team. Karma, Desert Wind, and Stickshift are all playing significantly less right now (less than half the deployments), while I run my top 3 and bottom 3 available every deployment, but their gain has been the same as those behind them. They have more XP, thus a better build, they gain more than those behind them, or would gain more, if they were being deployed as much.

I see what you are saying. However I reserve the right to feel differently only because I have moved up from level 0/1 to where I am and in term passed you without following your tactics. Does this mean you are wrong and I am right? NO. We just approached the problem with different solutions and came out with similar outcomes. I've moved from the 100s to the 13th position partially because of my play style and partially because I have learned by watching people like Sustain, Burn, AD, N_V, etc. So I concede this point to you.


Responding out of order for this... You could just hunt his alt to get it back instead of waiting. Once we get to the higher levels, and we don't have as many opponents, it's not as likely that a strong build will choke out people. I like to think that it's mostly due to the builds becoming more level. Most of the choking occurs sub6 level. I've been tracking Gauntlet since before the race, so if you're curious, as of right now, he's averaging 17k a mission (he's dropped off a lot since wednesday) while surviving an average of 60% of all deployments, with about a 1:1 kill/death ratio over 90 deployments.

I could, but honestly it has to do with patience and another theory that I am going to test with Nyteshade and Decryption. Once I have proof one way or the other I will share with you.

Also growth % does not have as much to do with lower levels as much as it does have to do with XP earned from prior weeks. For example this week's XP growth is true. If we look at last weeks it would have only been for 5 days and appeared to be much lower than the week's before at 9. With that said I actually had a higher XP growth of 7.19% for the week before of 5 days than I did with the 7 day week. That is primarily because I was gone for three days and therefore generated less XP. I was however on par with XP generation with Zordon who has primarily builds of Repairers.

This part I will disagree with you on. Typically, the % of increase (not how much you gain, but how that rates against your total) has always typically been higher for the lower levels, simply because they need less to get a great gain. If your team has 100k XP, and you manage to pull 10k from a couple of 1-11 missions, congrats, you've earned 10% of your XP for the week. If you have 100m XP, earning 10m is not quite as simple. That's why I had a higher rank in % gained than actual XP gained. I have less, so I need less for the % to be higher.

However using your logic, it should be much easier to make that 10k XP at higher levels than it would be at lower levels. Getting a level 2 to score a 10k shot is really just random luck. Getting a lvl 6 (as you pointed out earlier) to do it is much more of a numbers game due to points being invested and build structure. Again, you do make a valid point that to maintain 100m XP is much harder than 100k XP, however if you look at just the basic fights not the 1-11 missions (as those are not as frequent as say a 1-3,2-3,3-4 series or a 5-7,6-9,7-10 series) the basic XP haul from a level 3 is only 4digits opposed to the basic haul from a 7 which is a mid 5 digits. Putting a level 3 into a 1-11 and expecting him to do as well as a level 7 is really more of a prayer to RNG than it is sure fire thing. You yourself have pointed out that this is where the higher XP will choke out the lower XP players. If we had a week of 1-11 missions not showing we would find that the XP gain to be on par with probability and show a nice slope instead of a curve towards the upper bound.
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Re: The real Autobot Savior Argument Thread

Postby Name_Violation » Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:20 am

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once i started resorting to the arena it was mainly GS, ROS and I vs each other on a regular basis.

once the above level 4 missions happened we went all missions, since it was just me vs him in the highest level missions anyway, then eventually Zordon and AD would start showing up and laying down a trifecta of pain on me till Burn or some one would get enough xp to give me back-up.

I've always tried to out level the game, but have to pull back when i'm sitting in empty missions.

being the first to spawn the 4-6, 6-9, 7-10, and 9-11 (and possibly the 1-11) missions, would often leave me at the mercy of his play schedule with my highest levels.

Luckily people are finally catching up to the higher levels. we still need more 9s tho 8)
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Re: The real Autobot Savior Argument Thread

Postby Psychout » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:11 am

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Name_Violation wrote:still need more 9s tho 8)


We're working on it dammit! Get your L10 into more missions with my repairers!! Image
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Re: The real Autobot Savior Argument Thread

Postby _Anshin_ » Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:45 am

I think Zordon has competition: Power Rangers - Gunadam Force
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Re: The real Autobot Savior Argument Thread

Postby Name_Violation » Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:09 pm

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Psychout wrote:
Name_Violation wrote:still need more 9s tho 8)


We're working on it dammit! Get your L10 into more missions with my repairers!! Image

actually level 8s are the best mission generators. they only make 6-9, 7-10, and 1-11's
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Re: The real Autobot Savior Argument Thread

Postby Absolute Zero » Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:27 pm

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First thing in the morning after gaming all night, bare with me.

_Anshin_ wrote:
Absolute Zero wrote:
I can pull good XP with my fast builds, because everyone is a target. If I was running strafe/ram or ram/avoid or strafe/avoid, my XP would be way way down. But because I use repair, I can pretty much double my potential XP while I level run and free up my spots in the lower levels for other people, however, I've been playing this game for long enough that I would be a fool to not know that if you have more XP, you're going to gain more XP. Someone with double the XP, should be gaining double the XP of me, assuming simular play habits. Otherwise, I wouldn't have a hard time of catching you or AD in the overall rank. It's illustrated on my team. Karma, Desert Wind, and Stickshift are all playing significantly less right now (less than half the deployments), while I run my top 3 and bottom 3 available every deployment, but their gain has been the same as those behind them. They have more XP, thus a better build, they gain more than those behind them, or would gain more, if they were being deployed as much.

I see what you are saying. However I reserve the right to feel differently only because I have moved up from level 0/1 to where I am and in term passed you without following your tactics. Does this mean you are wrong and I am right? NO. We just approached the problem with different solutions and came out with similar outcomes. I've moved from the 100s to the 13th position partially because of my play style and partially because I have learned by watching people like Sustain, Burn, AD, N_V, etc. So I concede this point to you.


Honestly, most of my crap for level 0/1 is remembering pre-reset. A lot of us remember the slog because people didn't want to level up. The top players general reason was always "I don't want to generate XP for anyone. I want to get more." Which shows that they don't really think long term, they only think in the short term, and I don't think it's good for the game. But I also remember the slog of trying to earn XP when the autobots outnumbered the con's 10:1 at level 2. If I recall correctly too, this was also back when mission win bonus was a flat 100 across the board. What this has to do with the current argument, I don't know. I still hear some of the same complaints from the lower levels though, so I don't really know.


Responding out of order for this... You could just hunt his alt to get it back instead of waiting. Once we get to the higher levels, and we don't have as many opponents, it's not as likely that a strong build will choke out people. I like to think that it's mostly due to the builds becoming more level. Most of the choking occurs sub6 level. I've been tracking Gauntlet since before the race, so if you're curious, as of right now, he's averaging 17k a mission (he's dropped off a lot since wednesday) while surviving an average of 60% of all deployments, with about a 1:1 kill/death ratio over 90 deployments.

I could, but honestly it has to do with patience and another theory that I am going to test with Nyteshade and Decryption. Once I have proof one way or the other I will share with you.


Is this a level one up, keep/level one down, and play them the same amount to see which one will gain XP faster?

Also growth % does not have as much to do with lower levels as much as it does have to do with XP earned from prior weeks. For example this week's XP growth is true. If we look at last weeks it would have only been for 5 days and appeared to be much lower than the week's before at 9. With that said I actually had a higher XP growth of 7.19% for the week before of 5 days than I did with the 7 day week. That is primarily because I was gone for three days and therefore generated less XP. I was however on par with XP generation with Zordon who has primarily builds of Repairers.

This part I will disagree with you on. Typically, the % of increase (not how much you gain, but how that rates against your total) has always typically been higher for the lower levels, simply because they need less to get a great gain. If your team has 100k XP, and you manage to pull 10k from a couple of 1-11 missions, congrats, you've earned 10% of your XP for the week. If you have 100m XP, earning 10m is not quite as simple. That's why I had a higher rank in % gained than actual XP gained. I have less, so I need less for the % to be higher.

However using your logic, it should be much easier to make that 10k XP at higher levels than it would be at lower levels. Getting a level 2 to score a 10k shot is really just random luck. Getting a lvl 6 (as you pointed out earlier) to do it is much more of a numbers game due to points being invested and build structure. Again, you do make a valid point that to maintain 100m XP is much harder than 100k XP, however if you look at just the basic fights not the 1-11 missions (as those are not as frequent as say a 1-3,2-3,3-4 series or a 5-7,6-9,7-10 series) the basic XP haul from a level 3 is only 4digits opposed to the basic haul from a 7 which is a mid 5 digits. Putting a level 3 into a 1-11 and expecting him to do as well as a level 7 is really more of a prayer to RNG than it is sure fire thing. You yourself have pointed out that this is where the higher XP will choke out the lower XP players. If we had a week of 1-11 missions not showing we would find that the XP gain to be on par with probability and show a nice slope instead of a curve towards the upper bound.


I never said it wasn't way easier to make that 10k XP at higher levels. Top end 6 low end 7 should be expecting around 10k a deployment. Level 2 is a random lucky shot to get that hit for 10k, but their luck might improve if we had more than 3 or 4 10s on the Con side and 1 on the bot side. (I know, N_V and Zordon are working on improving that) And yeah, the upper tier players will generally choke out the lower ones, but numbers help for that, one of them lucky bastards will likely get off a hit, but in general, they're going to the CR with nothing. It's like a lotery ticket. You know it's going to be a waste, but you keep trying cause there's that 1 in whatever chance you might walk out ahead.
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Re: The real Autobot Savior Argument Thread

Postby Absolute Zero » Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:00 pm

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So, Alldarker has alzheimer's and can't remember anything he's ever said. I wonder if there is a way to find his old posts to show him... oh, what's that? There is? It's a search function? Holy crap! That's amazing! Whoever thought of that, should get a nobel prize!

So, here's some interesting posts I found. Rather dated, but still kinda relevant. The only reason he doesn't level up, is lack of competetion. Granted, this was so long ago, that level 4 was a rare breed and beast factions where still in play (Why, there's a young AZ, in his natural Predacon habitat), but we don't seem to have that problem now, yet he would still rather find excuses "I need 20 million XP to level up, rawr."

Complaining about losing positioning from the SPL. Odd that he didn't complain about how when it ended, it allowed him to shoot up higher, because of the bots dropped into getting the average of the next six behind them. And his point while valid that he lost a bunch of places, is also invalid, because he was complaining about the top players, I can tell you, in all honesty, that 1, he had a chance to join, chose not to, his problem, and secondly, there wasn't really any changes at all in the top 20.

Yet another example of AD blaming others (IE me) for his short comings. Funny, if he only had good builds, it would never matter who was in the missions with him. How often I see Con's posting about winning when they're out numbered. Ah. For shame. To be fair though, I did say my team sucked. :lol:

This one actually shows that at one point, I was 9th And the post below is AD feeling the need to justify himself by posting an outnumbered beatdown brag, because he was beat down before, in a fair fight.

Hey, that old savior poll. I didn't actually vote for myself, and I did recruit a bunch of RDDers to vote. Not for me, but for anyone not AD. :D It's why that kid on Burn's lawn on. Which was my location for a while. This is more fun than AD's alzhiemrs help, but I'll get back on target. As an aside, whatever happened to the weekly polls?

Here's what I was looking for... AD telling Zordon how to play, even though he says that's why he trolls me, because he thinks I'm telling him how to play. This was before he said that to me though. Ah well. That's a pretty big hypocrasy there AD.

So, in the past, AD has claimed the only thing keeping him from leveling up quickly, is competition, though, in his defense, he has leveled up in the past with 'weaker builds' and promptly leveled back down because he lost.

He reached rank 3 playing for the Autobots. Hey, good job. I reached rank 9 mostly playing for one of the two factions known for not having enough player to sustain itself. We had what? 20 Preds, spread across a whole bunch of timezones? Me, Spidey, Loki, Red, and N_V being the most active of them, if memory serves. Which one is more impressive? I don't know. Would I still be 9th or higher if I didn't take time away? Who knows. Don't really care, it is what it is.

Now for some current garbage to deal with.

alldarker wrote:Wrong, once again... Power builds do not have a low risk medium yield: in fact they have a low risk, HIGH yield on their investment, which _Anshin_ proved, and which I am proving every day. Fast builds like yours do have a chance of getting a high score once in a while, but about as much chance as any lower level has of hitting a high level.
You are trying to run when you can't even walk. And it's a real waste of XP to make a fast build when that same XP could make a perfectly fine lower level build providing a higher yield.[/url]

You don't understand, and you never will, but I'm retarded, so I have to try to explain it to you. See, let's just break it down pretty simply. Strong builds are not high yield. They are medium yield. They have a higher peak sometimes, and they don't bottom out as often, but they're just a medium yield for the amount of XP you're investing in them. If they were high yield, there would be no chance at all of catching them, and I wouldn't have been able to pass up some of Burn and Anshin's guys, just to name a few. You have 250 million XP invested. I have just hit 50 million. Your pay off nets you about 11-14 million a week. Yes, you're out gaining me, oh teh noes. Whatever, what I have been trying to explain to you, is while I may never out gain you in an individual mission, or even pass you by before I get bored of the game once again (which is why you passed me in the first place, let's be honest here, you took 3rd because a bunch of people stopped playing or played reduced time and other factors, such as the end of the SPL) but, I digress, my pitiful investment of about 46 million XP, netted me just short of 4 million. Yes, significantly less than yours, but when you compare investments, it's actually kind of high. Most of that 4m gain was from Gauntlet, who was level 7 for that. He's on pace to make 1m himself this week, assuming the RNG decides to stop being a hater. Anshin had a better return on his investment than you, and I'm pretty sure he's playing less right now. Now, do I think you could gain more of your investment back, if you leveled up? I don't know. The top end of the game can be tricky in that regard. And I'm not saying my builds are perfect, however, maybe two weeks ago, you're all "Hey, Gauntlet's getting good cuts of XP" and this week, when the RNG decides he's it's own personal redheaded stepchild to beat with a stick, you bring out the "Oh, your build sucks! It should be lower leveled!" Which is flipflopping on two things, telling me how to play (again. you like doing that for someone who doesn't like to be told how to play...) and flipflopping on accepting that he's not got a bad build. Here's a hint. His build hasn't changed from when he was making good cuts, neither has his competition.

AD wrote:
Excuses like 'bad RNG' are completely bogus.
I've been looking at just Gaunlet's missions that I'm able to recall:
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... n_id=95539
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... n_id=95653
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... n_id=95744
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... n_id=95773
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... n_id=95836
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... n_id=95905

Gauntlet is ending up at the very lowest end of the XP scale EVERY time. You can't tell me that's 'bad RNG' or 'bad luck': that's just a bad build getting thrown into missions way out of his depth.

You know, I don't have a say in the terms of the bet, so take it or leave it, but if it was up to me (and I know it isn't, so stop giving me a hard time!), the rules of this bet get changed so you don't have to change the names of your team, but you would have to reconfigure a couple of your builds, according to what _Anshin_ would consider a good build with the XP available. BINGO, everyone wins, including you!


Here, you're just spiting in the face of pretty much everyone who's ever played this game. Even ANSHIN has said the RNG sometimes won't refresh it's seed, which, to me, indicates that if you get crapped on, and the RNG doesn't refresh it's seed, you're going to get crapped on again. It happens. To ignore that fact, well, it just makes you ignorant. However, you also fail to understand that for 1 person in the mission to do amazing, someone else has to do poorly.

And once again, you're throwing your "He should play this way" into the mix, this time with the modifer "If it where up to me, which it's not, but if it was" which just makes you even more of a twit. If you don't want people telling you how to play, don't **** tell others, you god damn hypocrite.

But, since you want to. Here's what. Level the **** up. It would be better for the game. You'd see a whole lot more crazy high XP scores if you and everyone else, leveled the **** up. 200k XP wouldn't be hard to reach. Nor would 300k XP if people would level up. That's -why- I level up, so people can score better XP off of me. Oh, yeah, I could sit on my ass at lower levels, and boost my win% and maybe boost my XP (probably not though, since Gauntlet is playing as much as my lower levels, and Inertia, and out gaining her and a level 5 off my team combined.)

I would copy your other post, but I am pretty sure I cited enough of your own posts there to prove my point and I didn't feel the need to quote a post you edited to make even more trolling. So, STFU you **** hypocrite. Please. Grownups are trying to have a conversation here. :grin:
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Re: The real Autobot Savior Argument Thread

Postby Burn » Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:10 pm

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Absolute Zero wrote:As an aside, whatever happened to the weekly polls?


Lack of questions.

Now why don't you troll ROS and get him to level up some of his?
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Re: The real Autobot Savior Argument Thread

Postby Phaze » Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:14 pm

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Burn wrote:
Absolute Zero wrote:As an aside, whatever happened to the weekly polls?


Lack of questions.

Now why don't you troll ROS and get him to level up some of his?

Or at least change the song tune this is getting stale >:oP
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Re: The real Autobot Savior Argument Thread

Postby Absolute Zero » Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:23 pm

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Burn wrote:
Absolute Zero wrote:As an aside, whatever happened to the weekly polls?


Lack of questions.

Now why don't you troll ROS and get him to level up some of his?

Tried that. Didn't work. He plays for himself, and to hell with everyone else. That's not word for word what he said, but it is the sentiment of it.
Phaze wrote:
Burn wrote:
Absolute Zero wrote:As an aside, whatever happened to the weekly polls?


Lack of questions.

Now why don't you troll ROS and get him to level up some of his?

Or at least change the song tune this is getting stale >:oP


I'm pretty much done with AD. The only reason I bothered responding was because the last thing I saw before I went to bed was his posts, the I woke up this morning to find the surpise that he'd edited them to make them even more annoying. Ah well. It's probably about time this thread gets locked.
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Re: The real Autobot Savior Argument Thread

Postby Psychout » Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:04 pm

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OK, I'm going to call time on this thread. The Autobots are officially Saviourless.

*dresses up as Crazyfists*
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