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The Zelda games are Linked?!

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The Zelda games are Linked?!

Postby UltraPrimal » Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:43 pm

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I was watching Gametrailers.com's Zelda Retrospective and I found it very interesting. Especially the part where they explain how all the Zelda games were connected. I've always thought of them as being new, totally seperate adventures, except for OoT and MM. This "Split Timeline" Theory is very interesting, but it's not official. So what do think? Do you like this theory? Do you have a different one? Or do you prefer to think of each one as totally seperate and unrelated, yet eirily similar adventures?
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Postby Shadowman » Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:47 pm

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We know Twilight Princess takes place several decades after Majora's Mask, and Wind Waker takes place a while after that.

I think it goes something like this:

Ocarina of Time
Majora's Mask
Twilight Princess
legend of Zelda (The first one)
Link to the Past
Wind Waker
Link's Awakening

However, I'm not sure where Minish Cap, Link's Adventure, or the Four Swords games take place.
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Postby Autobobby1 » Sun Feb 18, 2007 1:01 pm

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Huh, and here I was thinking that Link was the same person in every game. That's interesting.
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Postby Spoon » Sun Feb 18, 2007 1:03 pm

Zelda games linked by link
blargh blargh the pun!
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Postby Shadowman » Sun Feb 18, 2007 1:26 pm

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Autobobby1 wrote:Huh, and here I was thinking that Link was the same person in every game. That's interesting.


Unless his age fluctuates like crazy, no. Wing Waker takes place centuries after Twilight Princess. In TP, Link was an adult, in WW, he was a little kid.

One thing to realize on when each game takes place is the location of the Master Sword. In OoC, it took place in a large, beautiful temple. In Twilight Princess, it's in the same temple, only now that temple is crumbling. In LttP, it's in a forest, indicating that the Temple of Time is gone, but the Master Sword is in the same place.
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Postby Autobobby1 » Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:09 pm

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I finished watching the series. I'm wondering what TP and PH will do to the theory.

In Twilight Princess, we meet the third Link who has never been to Hyrule. (The opening of the story mode shows this.) This complicates things much farther. It cannot exist in Hyrule B because it is Adult Link, who is no longer there due to the ending of Ocarina of Time. This probably means that it comes after the GameBoy Color titles, but we never see this Link's childhood. (He doesn't speak, so maybe the villagers are just assuming this.) But the GameBoy Color titles are basically the same, so what does that mean? I have a theory that could probably go against every event after Ocarina in both timelines as well as all dual-timeline theories on Earth.

I suspect that after the GameBoy Color titles, everything is pretty much the same for both timelines.

Therefore, in theory, the timelines could become one again. Link from Twilight Princess would be the same Link from the GameBoy Color games. This is all too confusing...
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Postby Shadowman » Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:24 pm

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Wrong-o!

Just because Link from OoT became a child again doesn't mean A) he didn't age anymore (Remember, he's not a Kokiri), and B) That his decendents don't age.

The developers have said that TP takes place several centuries after Ocarina of Time. Link's lineage probably moved to Ordona Province after a while.

Just becasue he doesn't have text doesn't mean he doesn't speak. In OoT, there are pauses between character text, and then a character will say whatever Link said.

And one more thing: The location of the Master Sword is the key to linking the games together. (No pun intended) Look where it is in each game, and it'll make sense.
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Postby Ninja Sixshot » Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:48 pm

from wat i know, TP does take place hundreds of years after OoT, but the TP link is a brand new 1
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Postby Hotrod » Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:24 pm

I think I am going to have to watch these.
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Postby UltraPrimal » Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:57 pm

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Yeah, every Link, except for the one from OoT and MM, and the one from Zelda 1 & 2, and the WW and PH one, is a new and seperate Link in each game. But they're all decended from the ones who came before. Who, I think, is desended from the original hero, Gustal/Gustav(sp?), the Hero of Men. Who is also the original, or atleast earliest know, King of Hyrule. Which could make Zelda and Link related since they're both of Hyrulian royal blood. :-? Good thing they never got too romantic, b/c that would be gross if they indeed were related. Which makes me wonder...

Let's say they are related. They both possess the power of the Triforce and only very special people can wield the Triforce. So if Ganon has the Triforce aswell, maybe he's related to Gustav too. :-? It would definately be interesting if they made a game about Gustal. It would probably clear up alot about the history and timeline of Zelda.

You know what I don't get? If some of these games take place hundreds of years between each other, why is there no technological evolution. I've been thinking about this since WW. The Kokiri evolved in to little tree guys and either the Gorons or Zoras evolved into bird people. I'm not sure which one it was, it's been a few years since I've played it. I think they said in the game the desended from Gorons, which is back up by them living on a volcano with a dragon. But that seems unlikely since Gorons were big, heavy, rock people. And there are actual gorons in the game. Which makes me think they're Zoras, b/c the leap fron finned fish to feathered foul is more local, and you don't see any Zoras in the water world of WW. :roll:

What was talking about? Oh right, evolution. There's oviously natural evolution in the series, but what about technolgical? We've seen technology in the games, but it's not reflected very much by the people. They don't seem to be making very big jumps. There's the telescopes we see in MM and WW. The advancement in boats and ships from TP to WW. The Tingle Tuner has got to be some kind of electronic. Maybe Tingle is from the future. :-? The appearance on cannons in TP and WW. But the people of Hyrule still seem to left in the dark ages. Don't get be wrong, I don't want to see Link's Master Sword become a light saber, or his hook shot become a Samus-style grapple beam. But I would like to see something new and different in the next game. How long will we be stuck with the same old iron boots and bow. You know, now that I think about it, maybe they have advanced a little bit. But what I don't like is how they're moving away from magic. Link doesn't seem to have as many magical powers as he did in OoT and MM. I mean, he doesn't even have a magic meter. I think this is the first time since the original LoZ on the NES Link hasn't had one.
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Postby Spoon » Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:11 am

Completely watched all parts now.
The only question that I have: Is link a Elf? Or just a human with pointy ears? And zelda? Or is it different for every game?
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Postby Shadowman » Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:55 pm

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Spoon wrote:Completely watched all parts now.
The only question that I have: Is link a Elf? Or just a human with pointy ears? And zelda? Or is it different for every game?


The official term is "Hylian" but yeah, they're basically elves.
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Postby magus » Mon Feb 19, 2007 4:26 pm

Shadowman wrote:We know Twilight Princess takes place several decades after Majora's Mask, and Wind Waker takes place a while after that.

I think it goes something like this:

Ocarina of Time
Majora's Mask
Twilight Princess
legend of Zelda (The first one)
Link to the Past
Wind Waker
Link's Awakening

However, I'm not sure where Minish Cap, Link's Adventure, or the Four Swords games take place.


Your timeline is a bit different from what I've read/gathered from official sources such as manuals and what not and a bit of unofficial stuff. That and you're missing The Adventure of Link, Oracle of Seasons, and Oracle of Ages.

Here's the timeline as I understand it:

Ocarina of Time
Majora's Mask
Twilight Princess
Windwaker
Phantom Hourglass <-- From what I've read Hyrule is supposedly unflooded in this one removing the possible continuity error of the other games being in this order. Also, in a way, it explains why Hyrule is so barren in the original game and sparsely populated in Adventure of Link

Legend of Zelda
Adventure of Link

I left a gap because I'm not entirely sure where A Link to the Past and it's direct follow up (as in same Link) Link's Awakening fall anymore, Link to the Past takes place before Legend of Zelda and Adventure of Link but there's some speculation as whether it's before or after Ocarina and before or after Windwaker.

Before Ocarina came out the title "A Link to the Past" was interpreted as being a history of Hyrule and showing what came before the original Zelda but with Ocarina and all the others before it, there's no way to tell how far into the past it is. Also, the title could now be interpreted as "a link to the past" in bridging the gap between Hyrule being flooded and unflooded putting it between Windwaker and the original. Personally, I think it's between Windwaker and the original but it's hard to tell for sure until Phantom Hourglass is out.

The only ones I honestly have no idea where they take place are Oracle of Seasons and Ages. They do have the Twin Rova sisters so that links them vaguely to Ocarina but other than that it's anyone's guess.

Also, here's a rundown of which games have the same Link as far as I understand it:

Legend of Zelda and Adventure of Link

A Link to the Past and Link's Awakening

Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask

Oracle of Seasons and Oracle of Ages

Windwaker and Phantom Hourglass

Twilight Princess

The two four swords games and Minish Cap are linked by story but I think the Links are all different and I'm not entirely sure they're directly related/ tied into the other games other than Four Swords Adventure that goes into Ganon/Gannondorf.
Last edited by magus on Mon Feb 19, 2007 4:42 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Postby Emperor Primacron the 1st » Mon Feb 19, 2007 4:31 pm

UltraPrimal wrote:Yeah, every Link, except for the one from OoT and MM, and the one from Zelda 1 & 2, and the WW and PH one, is a new and seperate Link in each game. But they're all decended from the ones who came before. Who, I think, is desended from the original hero, Gustal/Gustav(sp?), the Hero of Men. Who is also the original, or atleast earliest know, King of Hyrule. Which could make Zelda and Link related since they're both of Hyrulian royal blood. :-? Good thing they never got too romantic, b/c that would be gross if they indeed were related. Which makes me wonder...

Let's say they are related. They both possess the power of the Triforce and only very special people can wield the Triforce. So if Ganon has the Triforce aswell, maybe he's related to Gustav too. :-? It would definately be interesting if they made a game about Gustal. It would probably clear up alot about the history and timeline of Zelda.

You know what I don't get? If some of these games take place hundreds of years between each other, why is there no technological evolution. I've been thinking about this since WW. The Kokiri evolved in to little tree guys and either the Gorons or Zoras evolved into bird people. I'm not sure which one it was, it's been a few years since I've played it. I think they said in the game the desended from Gorons, which is back up by them living on a volcano with a dragon. But that seems unlikely since Gorons were big, heavy, rock people. And there are actual gorons in the game. Which makes me think they're Zoras, b/c the leap fron finned fish to feathered foul is more local, and you don't see any Zoras in the water world of WW. :roll:

What was talking about? Oh right, evolution. There's oviously natural evolution in the series, but what about technolgical? We've seen technology in the games, but it's not reflected very much by the people. They don't seem to be making very big jumps. There's the telescopes we see in MM and WW. The advancement in boats and ships from TP to WW. The Tingle Tuner has got to be some kind of electronic. Maybe Tingle is from the future. :-? The appearance on cannons in TP and WW. But the people of Hyrule still seem to left in the dark ages. Don't get be wrong, I don't want to see Link's Master Sword become a light saber, or his hook shot become a Samus-style grapple beam. But I would like to see something new and different in the next game. How long will we be stuck with the same old iron boots and bow. You know, now that I think about it, maybe they have advanced a little bit. But what I don't like is how they're moving away from magic. Link doesn't seem to have as many magical powers as he did in OoT and MM. I mean, he doesn't even have a magic meter. I think this is the first time since the original LoZ on the NES Link hasn't had one.


Well, wit hthe technology bit, it's explainable. Look how long we as humans have been in the dark till recently. 200 years ago, we were still saying in wooden boats, riding horses, and walking as getting from point A to point B. We only just started to learn to drive and fly lil over a century ago.

:idea: Or look at some cultures who shun modern technology....like the Amish for example.
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Postby Shadowman » Mon Feb 19, 2007 4:50 pm

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magus wrote:Your timeline is a bit different from what I've read/gathered from official sources such as manuals and what not and a bit of unofficial stuff. That and you're missing The Adventure of Link, Oracle of Seasons, and Oracle of Ages.

Here's the timeline as I understand it:

Ocarina of Time
Majora's Mask
Twilight Princess
Windwaker
Phantom Hourglass <-- From what I've read Hyrule is supposedly unflooded in this one removing the possible continuity error of the other games being in this order. Also, in a way, it explains why Hyrule is so barren in the original game and sparsely populated in Adventure of Link

Legend of Zelda
Adventure of Link

I left a gap because I'm not entirely sure where A Link to the Past falls anymore, it takes place before Legend of Zelda and Adventure of Link but there's some speculation as whether it's before or after Ocarina and before or after Windwaker. Before Ocarina came out the title "A Link to the Past" was interpreted as being a history of Hyrule and showing what came before the original Zelda but with Ocarina and all the others before it, there's no way to tell how far into the past it is. Also, the title could now be interpreted as "a link to the past" in bridging the gap between Hyrule being flooded and unflooded putting it between Windwaker and the original. Personally, I think it's between Windwaker and the original but it's hard to tell for sure until Phantom Hourglass is out.

The only ones I honestly have no idea where they take place are Oracle of Seasons and Ages. They do have the Twin Rova sisters so that links them vaguely to Ocarina but other than that it's anyone's guess.

Also, here's a rundown of which games have the same Link as far as I understand it:

Legend of Zelda and Adventure of Link

A Link to the Past and Link's Awakening

Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask

Oracle of Seasons and Oracle of Ages

Windwaker and Phantom Hourglass

Twilight Princess

The two four swords games and Minish Cap are linked by story but I think the Links are all different and I'm not entirely sure they're directly related/ tied into the other games other than Four Swords Adventure that goes into Ganon/Gannondorf.


I figure that Link to the Past is a few centuries after Twilight Princess. Like I said before, the location of the Master Sword and everything around it is a clue.

OoT is undeniably the first thing to happen chronologically. It sort of explains how Ganon started the Dark Realm, where he came from, and even his transformation into his pig form. And look where they kept the Master Sword: The Temple of Time, which, at the time, was rather lavish.

Then Twilight Princess, which we know to be the next game after OoT. Look at the Temple of Time now: Crumbling, taken over by forest, so on so forth. And the Master Sword is still in that same area.

Now look at Link to the Past. Where's the Master sword? On a pedestal in the middle of a forest! The area is roughly the same size as it was in Twilight Princess, and the Master Sword is even there.

I think you might be right about the first two games being after Wind Waker/Phantom Hourglass. But I think Link's Awakening takes place right in the middle of the two. Link was sailing home from his adventure, and landed on an Island in the middle of the sea. Not to mention, it turned out to be a dream in the end, so they can do anything they want afterwards.

I still don't know about Minish Cap, Four Swords, or the Oracle games, but I think Minish Cap is right before the Four Swords games. In MC, Vaati was not well known by anyone, and apparently moving about freely, and in Foru Swords, he was a prisoner, possibly because of Zelda and Link.

Oh, and I meant Adventure of Link when I said Link's Adventure. I get these things mixed up sometimes. :oops:
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Postby magus » Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:09 pm

Shadowman wrote:
magus wrote:Your timeline is a bit different from what I've read/gathered from official sources such as manuals and what not and a bit of unofficial stuff. That and you're missing The Adventure of Link, Oracle of Seasons, and Oracle of Ages.

Here's the timeline as I understand it:

Ocarina of Time
Majora's Mask
Twilight Princess
Windwaker
Phantom Hourglass <-- From what I've read Hyrule is supposedly unflooded in this one removing the possible continuity error of the other games being in this order. Also, in a way, it explains why Hyrule is so barren in the original game and sparsely populated in Adventure of Link

Legend of Zelda
Adventure of Link

I left a gap because I'm not entirely sure where A Link to the Past falls anymore, it takes place before Legend of Zelda and Adventure of Link but there's some speculation as whether it's before or after Ocarina and before or after Windwaker. Before Ocarina came out the title "A Link to the Past" was interpreted as being a history of Hyrule and showing what came before the original Zelda but with Ocarina and all the others before it, there's no way to tell how far into the past it is. Also, the title could now be interpreted as "a link to the past" in bridging the gap between Hyrule being flooded and unflooded putting it between Windwaker and the original. Personally, I think it's between Windwaker and the original but it's hard to tell for sure until Phantom Hourglass is out.

The only ones I honestly have no idea where they take place are Oracle of Seasons and Ages. They do have the Twin Rova sisters so that links them vaguely to Ocarina but other than that it's anyone's guess.

Also, here's a rundown of which games have the same Link as far as I understand it:

Legend of Zelda and Adventure of Link

A Link to the Past and Link's Awakening

Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask

Oracle of Seasons and Oracle of Ages

Windwaker and Phantom Hourglass

Twilight Princess

The two four swords games and Minish Cap are linked by story but I think the Links are all different and I'm not entirely sure they're directly related/ tied into the other games other than Four Swords Adventure that goes into Ganon/Gannondorf.


I figure that Link to the Past is a few centuries after Twilight Princess. Like I said before, the location of the Master Sword and everything around it is a clue.

OoT is undeniably the first thing to happen chronologically. It sort of explains how Ganon started the Dark Realm, where he came from, and even his transformation into his pig form. And look where they kept the Master Sword: The Temple of Time, which, at the time, was rather lavish.

Then Twilight Princess, which we know to be the next game after OoT. Look at the Temple of Time now: Crumbling, taken over by forest, so on so forth. And the Master Sword is still in that same area.

Now look at Link to the Past. Where's the Master sword? On a pedestal in the middle of a forest! The area is roughly the same size as it was in Twilight Princess, and the Master Sword is even there.

I think you might be right about the first two games being after Wind Waker/Phantom Hourglass. But I think Link's Awakening takes place right in the middle of the two. Link was sailing home from his adventure, and landed on an Island in the middle of the sea. Not to mention, it turned out to be a dream in the end, so they can do anything they want afterwards.

I still don't know about Minish Cap, Four Swords, or the Oracle games, but I think Minish Cap is right before the Four Swords games. In MC, Vaati was not well known by anyone, and apparently moving about freely, and in Foru Swords, he was a prisoner, possibly because of Zelda and Link.

Oh, and I meant Adventure of Link when I said Link's Adventure. I get these things mixed up sometimes. :oops:


Well, I remember the manual or some other piece of official literature for Link's Awakening mentioning Link to the Past, much in the same manner that Majora's Mask mentions Ocarina. In fact they're pretty much the same kind of story, Link beats Gannon, leaves Hyrule on a personal journey, stumbles upon another adventure. At any rate, I'm like 99% sure Link's Awakening is a direct sequel of Link to the Past which would have to put it directly after it since Windwaker is a different Link.

What I'm wondering is where these new Links and Zeldas come from? There's never a mention of Link and Zelda shacking up and the two family lines seem to be totally separate. I'm not even sure if each Link is part of the same family ala the Belmonts or if they're just randomly chosen by the goddesses and happen to look the same or are made to look the same.
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Postby Hotrod » Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:03 pm

:-? I just finished watching all six parts and I agree with their timeline. I am going to have to get the orginal GB game and the 2 GBC games to play on my GameCube.
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Postby Fang Wolf » Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:39 pm

http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/Legend_of_Zelda_Timeline
Timeline

http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline_Theory_Page
Timeline Theories

Hope it helps, I read it ages ago.

PS, 4Swords was the first one.
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Postby Operation Ravage » Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:54 pm

I really should get brushed back up on Zelda. It's been a while since I've really given any considerable thought to the storyline; I had always just operated under the assumption that each game was essentially a "retelling" of the story, with a few exceptions. However, I just beat Twilight Princess tonight, and I feel the Zelda bug biting right now.

I have to agree with Shadowman on the game's ordering, though. That does make a good amount of sense.

One thing that's bothering me, though: Ganon's pig form. When we first met Ganon in 1986, he was already a pig. In LttP, it was explained that he used to be a man, and indeed, we saw this transformation in OoT. But then he's a human again in WW and TP. Did Ganondorf ever loose his ability to reassume his human form, like I initially thought? Or is Ganon his "powered up" form that he can shift to at will, like Dracula's second form in most of the Castlevania games?
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Postby magus » Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:22 pm

Operation Ravage wrote:
One thing that's bothering me, though: Ganon's pig form. When we first met Ganon in 1986, he was already a pig. In LttP, it was explained that he used to be a man, and indeed, we saw this transformation in OoT. But then he's a human again in WW and TP. Did Ganondorf ever loose his ability to reassume his human form, like I initially thought? Or is Ganon his "powered up" form that he can shift to at will, like Dracula's second form in most of the Castlevania games?


From what I understand at some point Ganondorf either actually dies but Ganon remains as all of his hate and rage incarnate or his hate and rage overtake him to the point that he totally becomes Ganon. Either way, Ganon is supposed to be Ganondorf's "true" inner self incarnate. As I understand it anyways.
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Postby Nemesis Cyberplex » Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:19 am

I'm watching those right now....pretty iunteresting stuff.

One thing that keeps bugging me about the Zelda franchise, though, is why do people keep insisting that the games are RPGs? Nintendo themselves have always clearly labeled them as adventure games, yet every time I ever see a review or hear some know-it-all fan say anything about them, they're called RPGs.
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Postby UltraPrimal » Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:47 am

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Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:I'm watching those right now....pretty iunteresting stuff.

One thing that keeps bugging me about the Zelda franchise, though, is why do people keep insisting that the games are RPGs? Nintendo themselves have always clearly labeled them as adventure games, yet every time I ever see a review or hear some know-it-all fan say anything about them, they're called RPGs.

I guess b/c you're so heavily and deeply into the story when you play it's like you are Link. Which is really what RPGs are about, feeling directly connected to the character. And not to mention Zelda games have always been living worlds like those you'ld find in an RPG.
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Postby Nemesis Cyberplex » Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:18 am

UltraPrimal wrote:
Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:I'm watching those right now....pretty iunteresting stuff.

One thing that keeps bugging me about the Zelda franchise, though, is why do people keep insisting that the games are RPGs? Nintendo themselves have always clearly labeled them as adventure games, yet every time I ever see a review or hear some know-it-all fan say anything about them, they're called RPGs.

I guess b/c you're so heavily and deeply into the story when you play it's like you are Link. Which is really what RPGs are about, feeling directly connected to the character. And not to mention Zelda games have always been living worlds like those you'ld find in an RPG.
It's just kinda odd because aside from what you mentioned they really have no features that would consider it to be related to an RPG. Hell, in most cases anymore they'd probably be more related to platform games what with all the puzzle-solving & item-collecting you did.....could you actually do more platform jumping that you can.


Edit: I finally saw all of those.....took long enough to load.... & I have to say, I don't think their split timeline theory works. One of the things that stands out as not matching up is the maidens from LTTP being decendants of the Sages in OOT....which took place in their "Hyrule B"....yet LTTP follows A's timeline, where the sages were never assembled. I may be wrong, & possibly missing something, but it did stand out to me.
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Postby Hotrod » Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:21 pm

I think Nintendo should release an official history of the Legend of Zelda book. I know I would buy it.
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Postby Shadowman » Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:23 pm

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Hotrod wrote:I think Nintendo should release an official history of the Legend of Zelda book. I know I would buy it.


While that is a good idea at first, you have to realize that the whole thing would have to be rewritten every time a new game came out.
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