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Toy Economics: Price Differences in different markets and the factors behind them

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Re: Toy Economics: Price Differences in different markets and the factors behind them

Postby fenrir72 » Tue May 19, 2015 7:39 pm

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Editor wrote:As I do not see that Samson has responded, those look like TRU prices, in CND Dollars.

Prices between our TRU and Walmarts fluctuate, but currently CW limbs are 2 bucks cheaper at TRU.

And sorry if I've missed it, but two major cost issues that effect us above the connected 48, are a) costs for shipping to remote chain stores are spread out to all to cover, and I doubt you would find too many shipments to "remote" locations in the 48 are anywhere close to the costs to some Canadian cities that sit further from the main centres where the distribution points are. And b) the one I think gets overlooked by many, of the numbers of total units produced for any given area, where there are changes in packaging, inserts, and other add-ons seen or not seen in other areas.

This affects Canadians because as we all know our packaging and add-ins are usually different, and that needs to get paid for somewhere, but if we expand it to the bigger picture.....

I've seen a lot of posts stating the costs for the Japanese market against the US market, and they don't touch on a major fact that while the Japanese market is mainly targeting collectors (IMO) while Hasbro is still producing for kids first in most cases. Even with Japanese releases getting to the secondary english market, the odds are for many the numbers being produced are smaller (let alone the number if small run special editions done over there) than the "hasbro" units being produced for multiple countries/markets.

This one bugs me when not looked at, because if something from Takara is only produced to say 25,000 units, while the Hasbro release is 100,000 units, then it goes without saying that the Takara one will cost more to produce due to the smaller print run. It's a fact of manufacturing. (and yes, my day job deals with stuff like this so i'm not just talking out my ass) to figure that something that comes out of the same moulds but in different colors and/or paint apps should cost the same without looking at the production numbers and per unit production costs is shortsighted.

Well that's just my 2 cents. (currently worth approximately $0.0164 US, 1.97 yen, 1 pence sterling, or 0.01 euro. )


We did mention that in the other thread but some of it was taken down already. The "that" meaning, the collector market for Japan is waaaaaay different than the world in general.

We primarily focused on the "boring" stuff that made us sleep during our economic class in college :grin:
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Re: Toy Economics: Price Differences in different markets and the factors behind them

Postby SKYWARPED_128 » Tue May 19, 2015 9:23 pm

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In case anyone's curious about the price of TF's in Malaysia (yeah, that country just north of Singapore and south of Thailand, aka the 3rd tenor nobody remembers :P )

The High Octane Bumblebee (Hasbro) I bought recently was 69.90 MYR (22 USD +-). The Takara equivalent is 89.90 MYR (28 USD).

The ROTF deluxes were around 20 USD, as was the case with DOTM. It was somewhere before or during the launch of the AOE line when the price hike happened.

IIRC, prices of legends, scouts and whatnot have also risen by the same percentage.
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Re: Toy Economics: Price Differences in different markets and the factors behind them

Postby prjkt » Tue May 19, 2015 9:24 pm

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JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:
fenrir72 wrote:
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Any other factors besides oil prices that could dictate prices? We all know the regular raw material, R&D, human labor and whatnot, what about the ones that determine the prices overseas? Aside from transport of course.


Local (depending on the country) taxation policies. Some countries labels toys as "luxuries" so their eager beaver taxman just can't wait to lay their grubby slimy hands on such.


You mentioning taxes made me realise I totally forgot about VAT (Value Added Tax), how they're applied and especially when. Prepare to be amazed:

US: after purchase, rate depends on city or county
EU: included in price shown (what you see is what you pay), rates depend on country. The Netherlands have two rates: 6% for food, and a whopping 21% (!) for luxury goods since 2012.
UK: Anybody know?
Japan: Ditto

I think UK is included, not sure, but AU and NZ is GST inclusive, Aus rate is %10, not sure what it is in NZ (apparently slightly higher from what I vaguely remember)
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Re: Toy Economics: Price Differences in different markets and the factors behind them

Postby Crimson Prime » Tue May 19, 2015 11:31 pm

prjkt wrote:
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:
fenrir72 wrote:
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Any other factors besides oil prices that could dictate prices? We all know the regular raw material, R&D, human labor and whatnot, what about the ones that determine the prices overseas? Aside from transport of course.


Local (depending on the country) taxation policies. Some countries labels toys as "luxuries" so their eager beaver taxman just can't wait to lay their grubby slimy hands on such.


You mentioning taxes made me realise I totally forgot about VAT (Value Added Tax), how they're applied and especially when. Prepare to be amazed:

US: after purchase, rate depends on city or county
EU: included in price shown (what you see is what you pay), rates depend on country. The Netherlands have two rates: 6% for food, and a whopping 21% (!) for luxury goods since 2012.
UK: Anybody know?
Japan: Ditto

I think UK is included, not sure, but AU and NZ is GST inclusive, Aus rate is %10, not sure what it is in NZ (apparently slightly higher from what I vaguely remember)


Australian GST is indeed 10% and it's included in the sticker price, whatever the price tag says, that's what you pay.
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Re: Toy Economics: Price Differences in different markets and the factors behind them

Postby Samsonator » Tue May 19, 2015 11:49 pm

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Sorry, got a little sidetracked with work, but yes, Editor's right. Walmart has a couple dollars difference on a few things compared to TRU, and the prices I gave were local currency. Voyager and Leader pricing I believe to be either the same, or a slight variation in the cents category. (Except that time I saw some Leader Jetfires in Walmart for $29.99 because someone screwed up and put them at Voyager price)
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Re: Toy Economics: Price Differences in different markets and the factors behind them

Postby Editor » Wed May 20, 2015 1:35 am

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To expand a little on Canadian pricing, here's the local TRU from earlier tonight showing a few of the other current prices.
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Re: Toy Economics: Price Differences in different markets and the factors behind them

Postby MemphisR56 » Wed May 20, 2015 7:50 am

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British / English / UK Prices! Just for those wondering, based on Toys R us pricepoints for current waves of figures (mainly RID'15 and CW):

Cybv. Legion: £6.99
Cybv. Commndr: £9.99
Legends: £9.99
Deluxe: £15.99
Voyager: £22.99
Leader: £49.99
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Re: Toy Economics: Price Differences in different markets and the factors behind them

Postby william-james88 » Wed May 20, 2015 8:35 am

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I find that the Canadian price for transformers is pretty much the equivalent of the US price in our currency. It is often off either to our advantage or disadvantage depending on what time the item was originally priced when sold wholesale. We do pay more in taxes though since our Tax Rate is 15% and not included in the prices listed above.

So while a Voyager at TRU may currently be 34.5$ Cdn in total including taxes (which is 28.30$ US), a Voyager at TRU is currently 40.25$ Cdn in total(32.90$ US).
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Re: Toy Economics: Price Differences in different markets and the factors behind them

Postby Editor » Wed May 20, 2015 10:26 am

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william-james88 wrote: We do pay more in taxes though since our Tax Rate is 15% and not included in the prices listed above.

Tax rate changes by Province my friend. BC pays 13%, heck Alberta pays 5%.
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Re: Toy Economics: Price Differences in different markets and the factors behind them

Postby william-james88 » Wed May 20, 2015 10:32 am

Motto: "'till All Are One"
Editor wrote:
william-james88 wrote: We do pay more in taxes though since our Tax Rate is 15% and not included in the prices listed above.

Tax rate changes by Province my friend. BC pays 13%, heck Alberta pays 5%.


Haha, so true. I forgot about how awesome alberta is (fun for you Shajaki!) but I didnt know Vancouver was cheaper than Quebec. I guess we are the most taxed province afterall (not whining, we have french on boxes now).
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Re: Toy Economics: Price Differences in different markets and the factors behind them

Postby Editor » Wed May 20, 2015 10:52 am

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Opps I put 13% for BC that should be 12%.
Quebec and Nova Scotia appear to be the highest at 15%.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sales_taxes_in_Canada
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Re: Toy Economics: Price Differences in different markets and the factors behind them

Postby Samsonator » Wed May 20, 2015 11:13 pm

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Editor wrote:Opps I put 13% for BC that should be 12%.
Quebec and Nova Scotia appear to be the highest at 15%.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sales_taxes_in_Canada

I thought we were still at 12.5, guess it shows how much attention I've paid in the last while... I remember when BC's was 14.5... I like to call those the dark times.
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Re: Toy Economics: Price Differences in different markets and the factors behind them

Postby william-james88 » Thu May 21, 2015 9:49 am

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Samsonator wrote:
Editor wrote:Opps I put 13% for BC that should be 12%.
Quebec and Nova Scotia appear to be the highest at 15%.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sales_taxes_in_Canada

I thought we were still at 12.5, guess it shows how much attention I've paid in the last while... I remember when BC's was 14.5... I like to call those the dark times.


Current Quebec is worse than your dark times :HEADHURTS:
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Re: Toy Economics: Price Differences in different markets and the factors behind them

Postby Editor » Thu May 21, 2015 10:49 am

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To my Canadian Compatriots, perhaps we should take our tax bitching over to the Canadian sighting thread. I believe we may be derailing this thread from the original international focus on a topic that we should be maintaining.
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Re: Toy Economics: Price Differences in different markets and the factors behind them

Postby MemphisR56 » Wed May 27, 2015 5:32 am

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British VAT rate is 20%. That might actually play into how ridiculous the British prices I mentioned when you convert them into dollars at the current exchange rate, but a meagre 5%-7.5% certainly does not explain them, I mean would the american guys in this thread pay these prices?:

Cybv. Legion: £6.99 > $10.76
Cybv. Commndr: £9.99 > $15.37
Legends: £9.99 > $15.37
Deluxe: £15.99 > $24.60
Voyager: £22.99 > $35.38
Leader: £49.99 > $76.92
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Re: Toy Economics: Price Differences in different markets and the factors behind them

Postby Jelze Bunnycat » Wed May 27, 2015 6:53 am

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MemphisR56 wrote:British VAT rate is 20%. That might actually play into how ridiculous the British prices I mentioned when you convert them into dollars at the current exchange rate, but a meagre 5%-7.5% certainly does not explain them, I mean would the american guys in this thread pay these prices?:

Cybv. Legion: £6.99 > $10.76
Cybv. Commndr: £9.99 > $15.37
Legends: £9.99 > $15.37
Deluxe: £15.99 > $24.60
Voyager: £22.99 > $35.38
Leader: £49.99 > $76.92


I know we Europeans are crazy enough to, although we hardly have a choice in the matter. Our VAT rates are just nuts, adding 1/5th of the base price! Any EU countries that have VAT rates significantly lower than 20%? 8-}

Local market play, production costs, logistics... they factor into pricing one way or another. There is one more factor that I'd like to add into the discussion: the store chains themselves. How would they influence the price of a product? Bargaining? Buying in bulk? Special agreements? I guess a better question would be: how do competing chains get to play with the prices?
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Re: Toy Economics: Price Differences in different markets and the factors behind them

Postby MemphisR56 » Wed May 27, 2015 7:12 am

Motto: "An inconvenience is just an adventure wrongly viewed!"
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JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:
MemphisR56 wrote:British VAT rate is 20%. That might actually play into how ridiculous the British prices I mentioned when you convert them into dollars at the current exchange rate, but a meagre 5%-7.5% certainly does not explain them, I mean would the american guys in this thread pay these prices?:

Cybv. Legion: £6.99 > $10.76
Cybv. Commndr: £9.99 > $15.37
Legends: £9.99 > $15.37
Deluxe: £15.99 > $24.60
Voyager: £22.99 > $35.38
Leader: £49.99 > $76.92


I know we Europeans are crazy enough to, although we hardly have a choice in the matter. Our VAT rates are just nuts, adding 1/5th of the base price! Any EU countries that have VAT rates significantly lower than 20%? 8-}

Local market play, production costs, logistics... they factor into pricing one way or another. There is one more factor that I'd like to add into the discussion: the store chains themselves. How would they influence the price of a product? Bargaining? Buying in bulk? Special agreements? I guess a better question would be: how do competing chains get to play with the prices?


Generally I guess competing prices are better for the consumer, but that doesn't tend to be an issue when our distribution is so poor that we're conditioned to buy them wherever we're lucky enough to find them. Especially when this is the first year for a good 3 years that the generations line hasn't been TRU exclusive.

I think I remember hearing that TRU's prices are a 30% markup on the buying price anyway, at least they are in america. (any TRU employees about to confirm this?).

That math I think basically goes shelf price = 120% value, minus 20% tax, minus 30% mark up to give us the rate that hasbro buys from the store. For the leader class fig at £50 that makes £29.16. If we had some kind of measure of how much it costs hasbro to produce a single unit in a leader class production run, we'd know what proportion of the overall price is hasbro's markup and logistics.
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Re: Toy Economics: Price Differences in different markets and the factors behind them

Postby Jelze Bunnycat » Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:15 am

Motto: "The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance."
OK, time for a price recap. To be more fair in comparing, I will denote which prices have the VAT included, plus the local rate:

US: Not Included
Canada: Not Included
UK: 20%
Europe: ±20% (depends on country)
Australia: 10%
Japan: Not Included

Transformers 2014/2015

Legions
US: $4.99
Canada: ???
UK: £6.99
Europe: €4.99 - €5.99
Australia:
Japan: N/A

Transformers Robots in Disguise 2015

One-Step Changers
US: $9.99
Canada: $12.99
UK: ???
Europe: €15.99
Australia: ???
Japan: ¥1,500

3-Step Changers
US: $19.99
Canada: 26.99
UK: ???
Europe: ???
Australia: ???
Japan: ¥3,600

Legions
US: $5.99
Canada: $8.99
UK: ???
Europe: €9.99
Australia: ???
Japan: N/A

Warrior Class
US: $14.99
Canada: $19.99
UK: ???
Europe: €21.99
Australia: ???
Japan: ¥2,500

Deluxe Class (Adventure Only)
Japan: ¥2,500 - ¥3,500 (Lockdown due to height)

Generations

Legends
US: $9.99
Canada: $12.99
UK: £9.99
Europe: €15.99
Australia: $19
Japan: ¥1,300 (via Adventure)

Deluxe Class
US: $16.99
Canada: $17.99-$19.99
UK: £15.99
Europe: €24.99 - €26.99
Australia: $29
Japan: ¥2,800

Voyager Class
US: $24.99
Canada: $29.99-$34.99
UK: £22.99
Europe: €34.99
Australia: $49
Japan: ¥4,000

Leader Class
US: $44.99
Canada: $59.99
UK: £49.99
Europe: ???
Australia: $89
Japan: ¥7,000 - ¥7,500

Did I miss anything or make an error? Let me know. :)
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Re: Toy Economics: Price Differences in different markets and the factors behind them

Postby fenrir72 » Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:18 pm

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@JZGR

It seems we are both "tilting against the windmills." Despite our best efforts to educate, some people are just that, closed minded and will believe WHAT they want to believe.

All the unloading against TT/Hasbro or both about their pricing practices* and yet nary a protest against the equally expensive (or even more expensive with varying quality of the design 3rd party products that pay nary a royalty to the copyright holders).

Not that I'm against the 3rd party makers as I've already resigned to the fact that they are expensive and they have a place under the sun in a collectors market ( also own a few of them (7 infact which is verrrrrrrrrry small)

* Japan is indeed a strange fish. Pretends to be capitalist (just like the USA) but is quite protectionist for their domestic industries. There were instances that their version of Department of Commerce used a lamebrain excuse that their "snows" quality is different (or something like that) to prevent imports of American made skis..........that's how waaaaaaaay out there Japan is.
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Re: Toy Economics: Price Differences in different markets and the factors behind them

Postby Jelze Bunnycat » Sun Jun 07, 2015 5:13 am

Motto: "The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance."
To be fair, Rated X did have a point in some online stores price gouging when it comes to TakaraTomy products, depending. We discussed transport and shipping costs being factored into the price, but what about storage?
What I mean is, brick-and-mortar stores have warehouses in the local area for easy access no matter the location. But what about online-only stores? Where are their warehouses located? It goes without saying that the Japanese ones have theirs in Japan, but the international/US-targeting ones like BBTS, TFSource, and Robotkingdom.com, where are theirs?

In short, would we be footing the bill for storage and whatnot if the warehouses were to be located in, I don't know, China?
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Re: Toy Economics: Price Differences in different markets and the factors behind them

Postby fenrir72 » Sun Jun 07, 2015 7:15 am

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JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:To be fair, Rated X did have a point in some online stores price gouging when it comes to TakaraTomy products, depending. We discussed transport and shipping costs being factored into the price, but what about storage?
What I mean is, brick-and-mortar stores have warehouses in the local area for easy access no matter the location. But what about online-only stores? Where are their warehouses located? It goes without saying that the Japanese ones have theirs in Japan, but the international/US-targeting ones like BBTS, TFSource, and Robotkingdom.com, where are theirs?

In short, would we be footing the bill for storage and whatnot if the warehouses were to be located in, I don't know, China?


The online gauging are from the domestic stores i.e. BBTS etc. But the gouging per se isn't bad as in a capitalist system, we have to profit so as to give the store an incentive to keep on selling.

Now that you mention about storage, which I'll tackle on later let us begin with a domestic retailer in the USA.

1. He imports the product from Japan. Either directly through their local contacts or directly from Hasbro Asia. I know of an online retailer (not US based) who does the latter.

2. He buys them, maybe depending on bulk, gets a bit of a discount if direct from source, like amiami etc

3. Pays for shipping cost and local taxes

4. Computes the overhead and tacks in the profit margins

The overhead. As you mention, means logistics and salaries to pay your employees. You need a warehouse too and a kick ass communications online facility setup and pay for your credit card securities too. You also open up line of credit form loans for your kickstarter business.

There are lots of things that are involved in any form of business. I'll mention again, taxes taxes and taxes.

Gouging? Well supply and demand. Take TT Arcee for instance, so high the demand yet low in supply. Good thing stores like amiami sold her by their "special price". They already had a guaranteed profit with it. Now once it gets into the hands of 2nd or 3rd party vendors, then everything goes. If there's too high a demand (remember Tickle me Elmo and Mattel's Elsa and Anna? Great examples of super high demand) A lot of enterprising "enterpreneurs" i.e. scalpers will also get into the act.

Basic boring economics 101............I was and still a nerd back then so I didn't snooze when my Prof lectured the class :lol:
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Re: Toy Economics: Price Differences in different markets and the factors behind them

Postby -Kanrabat- » Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:54 pm

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It's that simple."
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No need to start a new thread to vent off my frustration. So, I'll do it here.

:BOOM: GODDAMIT YOU DUMB ONLINE STORES, KEEP YOUR INVENTORY IN CHECK AND STOP GIVING ME FALSE HOPES! :BOOM:

First, Yahobby make me buy a G1 Black Megatron they don't have in stock. At least, they didnt waste any time to refund me.

Next, I want a Alternity BLACK Megatron for a relatively reasonable price.

Buy it from Play-Asia. Pay.
"Herp-a-derp, we don't have it in stock, duuuuurrrrrrhhhhhh".
Refund me 24hrs later.

Ebay Member Toyspark. Buy two from him because a friend want it too.
"Herp-a-derp we only have the blue one, duuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrhhhhhhh."
Still waiting to get refunded.

And now, back to Yahobby again, to buy their last Alternity Black Megatron. Do they REALLY have it in stock? We'll see.

Dzjeezah fokking Ka-raïst, online stores, get your shayt together! :BANG_HEAD:
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Re: Toy Economics: Price Differences in different markets and the factors behind them

Postby fenrir72 » Wed Jun 17, 2015 5:39 pm

Motto: "Power to the strong and the right!"
Weapon: Plasma Cannon
-Kanrabat- wrote:No need to start a new thread to vent off my frustration. So, I'll do it here.

:BOOM: GODDAMIT YOU DUMB ONLINE STORES, KEEP YOUR INVENTORY IN CHECK AND STOP GIVING ME FALSE HOPES! :BOOM:

First, Yahobby make me buy a G1 Black Megatron they don't have in stock. At least, they didnt waste any time to refund me.

Next, I want a Alternity BLACK Megatron for a relatively reasonable price.

Buy it from Play-Asia. Pay.
"Herp-a-derp, we don't have it in stock, duuuuurrrrrrhhhhhh".
Refund me 24hrs later.

Ebay Member Toyspark. Buy two from him because a friend want it too.
"Herp-a-derp we only have the blue one, duuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrhhhhhhh."
Still waiting to get refunded.

And now, back to Yahobby again, to buy their last Alternity Black Megatron. Do they REALLY have it in stock? We'll see.

Dzjeezah fokking Ka-raïst, online stores, get your shayt together! :BANG_HEAD:


I feel your pain brotha'! But maybe this should be in wj or was it shajster's thread on online store policies.

That being said, the only time, well at least 2x I got into this situation was with hlj. When I ordered the TT fembots. If I didn't give them a double knock in the head, I might not have gotten them despite being an early bird reservist and Strongarm......hlj again.

TFGo! Gekisomaru, well amiami's 2nd run of him, I reserved because their site said available, but they immediately emailed me that the item was no longer available. Of course they didn't charge me as per store practice, charge when available only.

Relation to the topic, well, maybe in economic terms, too much demand so little supply?

Online stores should follow a, reserve an item, check the availability then charge not charge then check the availability. Thta should be good business sense. But in your case, it seems those were old stock inventory that was not updated. :BOOM:
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Re: Toy Economics: Price Differences in different markets and the factors behind them

Postby MemphisR56 » Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:13 am

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Weapon: Crossbow
Toys are produced by factory in Vietnam, so there's always going to be shipping involved, no matter where you are.


As for the European distribution centre, it's located just outside of Newport, Gwent, Wales UK. (I occasionally lurk their careers page, as my wife is welsh, and moving to Newport to work for Hasbro would be an absolute dream come true for both of us.)
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