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Toys r us

Feel free to discuss anything about any of the thousands of Transformer toys here. Anything from Generation 1 all the way to the soon to be released, the never to be released or the hope to be released is fair game! Want to show off your stuff? Please post your's and see others in the Transformers Collections Forum.

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Re: Toys r us

Postby Bowspearer » Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:59 pm

The problem is that you're contradicting your own argument and tbh it's a bit of a strawman. To use your analogy, what is actually happening here isn't just a guy who is getting one year voicing displeasure over it, but he's doing it in front of those with much harsher sentences and in a way which is completely oblivious to said much harsher sentences. In that situation, are the other prisoners going to feel any degree of sympathy for him?

2 examples of this:

Megs for pres wrote: I did think 16 dollars for my delux cliff jumper at TRU was indeed INSANE!


The going rate internationally for deluxes is $33USD.

Mindewipe24 wrote:Mildly annoying if your made of money...., post me back when next year they are $40 bucks for a voyager and tell me that's not "insane" >:oP


Roughly $55USD is what the current going rate for Voyagers for international fans.

You say we should all want prices to drop for all of us and I completely agree. However that's not what's happening here. Most of the arguments coming forth demonstrate a complete obliviousness to the realities of prices outside the borders of the USA (and I say that because last I checked, even Canada was paying international prices- admittedly that was 10 years ago though when I was last there). How can people want everyone to work together when they are completely blind to the whole picture?
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Re: Toys r us

Postby xyl360 » Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:15 pm

Economics, average pay rates, cost of living and the value of a nation's currency, not to mention import tariffs enforced by their governments when importing from certain countries are all factors here. The US never got cheaper prices because international fans paid more. it has nothing to do with it.

Everything costs more in Canada (I know people who live there) but the jobs on average also pay more (higher cost of living, higher pay rates, thus higher prices for goods and services, including Transformers).

Prices go up here in the US for toys just as they do in other markets. It's all economics and a matter of the manufacturers, suppliers and retailers setting prices for goods that they will make an acceptable profit on (and yes, some retailers gouge, but that's the advantage of competition, i.e. if BBTS is too high, try ToyArena or RK etc. and the same goes for TrU vs Wal-Mart vs Target vs whoever).

A few bucks more per figure is really not a lot, but it does certainly add up when you're buying a ton of figures.

Either way, if you're not happy with TrU's pricing (who have apparently been substantially higher than other retailers for ages now) then don't shop there. Let your money (and their loss of sales/profits) do the talking. The message will get through when they end up with tons of product they're unable to sell because the competition (who has lower prices) is beating them out.
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Re: Toys r us

Postby Bowspearer » Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:38 pm

xyl360 wrote:Economics, average pay rates, cost of living and the value of a nation's currency, not to mention import tariffs enforced by their governments when importing from certain countries are all factors here. The US never got cheaper prices because international fans paid more. it has nothing to do with it.


Except I can tell you firsthand that that isn't what happened with Australia. I'm bringing up here specifically because it's the smoking gun that blows apart that argument. Everything changed in the late 90s. We started out paying $16 for Deluxes, $25 for Megas and $40 for Voyagers.

Then the Asian Economic Crisis hit and our dollar plummeted. Costs had to go up and I accepted it. I even paid close to $40 for Beast Machines deluxes when our dollar plummeted below being worth 50 US cents.

However things changed, the dollar's value went up. What happened with prices? They lowered, by to close to double what they were. At present, we're still paying roughly the same prices, we have no tariff issues here (in fact we have a free trade agreement in place with the US), our dollar is worth more than the US and everything is manufactured in China.

To put transport costs in perspective, the Chinese were the aware of Australia back in the mid-early last millenia, and the only reason they didn't colonise it is because they had no real interest in it. That should tell you something about travel distances by sea between Australia and China.

In short, there is no economic factor at play in our market, besides simple corporate greed. Meanwhile from what I understand, fans in the UK pay prices which are a third higher than we do, which is obscene.

The fact is that if Hasbro is able to extract higher profit margins from other markets then the need to extract the same profit margins from domestic markets is diminished. Perhaps it isn't a direct policy of direct and overt subsidising, but it's definitely going on in an indirect manner.
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Re: Toys r us

Postby xyl360 » Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:48 pm

Bowspearer wrote:
xyl360 wrote:Economics, average pay rates, cost of living and the value of a nation's currency, not to mention import tariffs enforced by their governments when importing from certain countries are all factors here. The US never got cheaper prices because international fans paid more. it has nothing to do with it.


Except I can tell you firsthand that that isn't what happened with Australia. I'm bringing up here specifically because it's the smoking gun that blows apart that argument. Everything changed in the late 90s. We started out paying $16 for Deluxes, $25 for Megas and $40 for Voyagers.

Then the Asian Economic Crisis hit and our dollar plummeted. Costs had to go up and I accepted it. I even paid close to $40 for Beast Machines deluxes when our dollar plummeted below being worth 50 US cents.

However things changed, the dollar's value went up. What happened with prices? They lowered, by to close to double what they were. At present, we're still paying roughly the same prices, we have no tariff issues here (in fact we have a free trade agreement in place with the US), our dollar is worth more than the US and everything is manufactured in China.

To put transport costs in perspective, the Chinese were the aware of Australia back in the mid-early last millenia, and the only reason they didn't colonise it is because they had no real interest in it. That should tell you something about travel distances by sea between Australia and China.

In short, there is no economic factor at play in our market, besides simple corporate greed. Meanwhile from what I understand, fans in the UK pay prices which are a third higher than we do, which is obscene.

The fact is that if Hasbro is able to extract higher profit margins from other markets then the need to extract the same profit margins from domestic markets is diminished. Perhaps it isn't a direct policy of direct and overt subsidising, but it's definitely going on in an indirect manner.

Yes, you may be right there, but there also could be other factors in play such as different sales numbers from different markets. Some products which don't sell well in a particular market or which might be marketed more as 'specialty' items might demand a higher (or lower) price in that market to make it 'worth it' to the company/distributor to sell them there.

Either way, what you're dealing with likely has nothing to do with US prices and everything to do with whatever economic factors are at play that cause Hasbro (and whatever retailers/suppliers) are deciding to do with the pricing in different markets.

Hasbro also has different divisions who I'm sure manage their own pricing and distribution, so Hasbro US is not the same branch as Hasbro UK or Hasbro China etc. so they all have their own sales numbers/quotas they have to meet as well as profits.

Of course, I'm an individual who buys all of his figures online. I NEVER set foot inside a retail store or hobby shop to purchase figures. Every single one comes from BBTS, ToyArena, RK, ebay, Amazon etc. etc. so I'm used to always paying an inflated price (plus shipping), but that's the price I pay for convenience to get the plastic crack I'm addicted to.
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Re: Toys r us

Postby Bowspearer » Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:15 pm

Again I'll approach this from an Australian perspective, purely because the arguments that get thrown up, tend to not apply here in this current economic climate.

xyl360 wrote:Yes, you may be right there, but there also could be other factors in play such as different sales numbers from different markets. Some products which don't sell well in a particular market or which might be marketed more as 'specialty' items might demand a higher (or lower) price in that market to make it 'worth it' to the company/distributor to sell them there.


Actually Transformers and Star Wars are the 2 lines which have stayed the course here (and TMNT to a lesser extent), where lines like GIJOE bit the dust long ago - occasionally showing up, but more in the form of sporadic bursts than any kind of continued presence (in fact the last Joe line we got here was ROC). If performance was such an issue then they would have disappeared from Australian retail like so many other lines have.

xyl360 wrote:Either way, what you're dealing with likely has nothing to do with US prices and everything to do with whatever economic factors are at play that cause Hasbro (and whatever retailers/suppliers) are deciding to do with the pricing in different markets.


That's another thing I didn't bring up. Most of the Australian retail sector is controlled by 2 companies - Westfarmers and Woolworths, with Toys R Us, Toy World and in some limited capacity Uncle Pete's Toys. In short, you're talking about a situation where the market is essentially ruled by a quadruopoly that controls a retail market over over 20 million people- most of that population being in heavily populated urban centres (in fact some of our capital cities have faced housing shortages for some time now).

In short, buying power isn't an issue, or if it is an issue then it's a relatively minor one.

xyl360 wrote:Hasbro also has different divisions who I'm sure manage their own pricing and distribution, so Hasbro US is not the same branch as Hasbro UK or Hasbro China etc. so they all have their own sales numbers/quotas they have to meet as well as profits.


Which is a smoking gun in and of itself. If Hasbro sets the price and quota higher per unit and per population head in their international markets than they do in the US, then isn't that essentially using the rest of the world to subsidise the US market?
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Re: Toys r us

Postby xyl360 » Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:25 pm

Which is a smoking gun in and of itself. If Hasbro sets the price and quota higher per unit and per population head in their international markets than they do in the US, then isn't that essentially using the rest of the world to subsidise the US market?
Not necessarily. It may simply cost them less to import them here. The import/export situation between the US and China is a very odd one. Our economies are very co-dependent at the moment and have been for several years. In fact, for that very reason, it's (strangely) often cheaper for the US to import goods (even FOOD) from China rather than manufacturing them domestically.

Regarding your retail situation, that might be a big part of it too. You may have retailers gouging on pricing in your region for some reason since there isn't much competition.

My point is, I do not believe that Hasbro is losing money selling Transformers in the US and making up for it by selling at a higher price abroad. If that were the case, they'd either jack up the prices here (much more than they already have) or simply cut out of the US market and do much more business abroad (since it would be more profitable to do so).

I cannot say for certain though, and quite frankly, unless you work for Hasbro as an executive or accountant, neither can you. We're making a lot of assumptions here.

I'm not saying that TF fans in other nations aren't getting a raw deal, I know they are, I hear every day about the horror stories of pricing and distribution in the UK and other nations and it really sucks. Also keep in mind that I am not one of the ones complaining about the US domestic prices of TFs, so I'm not saying we have it any better or worse than you do (though I suspect the former as it sounds pretty bad where you are).
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Re: Toys r us

Postby Bowspearer » Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:13 pm

xyl360 wrote:
Which is a smoking gun in and of itself. If Hasbro sets the price and quota higher per unit and per population head in their international markets than they do in the US, then isn't that essentially using the rest of the world to subsidise the US market?
Not necessarily. It may simply cost them less to import them here. The import/export situation between the US and China is a very odd one. Our economies are very co-dependent at the moment and have been for several years. In fact, for that very reason, it's (strangely) often cheaper for the US to import goods (even FOOD) from China rather than manufacturing them domestically.


The relationship you bring up is no different to the one between China and Australia at the moment. In fact China being Australia's biggest client for raw materials currently is the sole reason Australia's economy isn't doing as terribly as the US economy overall.

xyl360 wrote:Regarding your retail situation, that might be a big part of it too. You may have retailers gouging on pricing in your region for some reason since there isn't much competition.


Both sides here have argued that the other is responsible for pricing and so based on that alone, it could be argued that you will never find the answer.

Except that 2 situations come to mind - both involving Cybertron Starscream funnily enough. Cyberstron Starscream became a shelfwarmer here, largely because he was a $109 item in the end. To get rid of him, he was clearanced at $12 (I kid you not) by Kmart at the time whilst other places sold him at $109. As an aside, I bought 2, sold off the other one on eBay for $50 and then a few years later, sold the loose one off for $50.

Anyway, you could argue from that, as you have that that implies price gouging. However that's unrealistic. It's highly unlikely that the buying price stores here were paying was under $10 for it or even under $40. What is likely is that Hasbro gave a rebate to Kmart to clear them out.

The reason I say that is because of the second example I'm about to give.

Cybertron Starscream wasn't always $109. In fact he was originally $149. When he shelfwarmed - get this - Hasbro lowered the wholesale price, allowing the retailers to drop the price to $109. The fact that a wholesale price drop resulted in such a dramatic drop in the RRP, all but proves that it is the wholesale price and Hasbro determining RRP, rather than the other way around.

xyl360 wrote:My point is, I do not believe that Hasbro is losing money selling Transformers in the US and making up for it by selling at a higher price abroad. If that were the case, they'd either jack up the prices here (much more than they already have) or simply cut out of the US market and do much more business abroad (since it would be more profitable to do so).


Except there's another retail pricing factor you've left out. That is what people will pay. The fact is that economic recessions in Europe and Asia got people used to paying higher prices for things. If you find that people are more likely to tolerate the price you need to sell something for in other markets and less likely in your preferred market, then you compensate for a lower profit margin in your preferred marketplace by operating under a higher profit margin elsewhere.

In fact a regular criticism of many international fans is that Hasbro only appears to care about the American market. That does appear to be slowly changing with developments in the Chinese market, however I suspect that the combination of China's rapid ascension and the USA's slow demise has forced Hasbro to rethink its strategy, as they can no longer afford to primarily concern themselves with the American retail marketplace.
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Re: Toys r us

Postby Megs for pres » Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:44 am

Motto: "May all bad things come to those who have the means to help, yet choose no to."
Weapon: Fusion Cannon
Bowspearer wrote:The problem is that you're contradicting your own argument and tbh it's a bit of a strawman. To use your analogy, what is actually happening here isn't just a guy who is getting one year voicing displeasure over it, but he's doing it in front of those with much harsher sentences and in a way which is completely oblivious to said much harsher sentences. In that situation, are the other prisoners going to feel any degree of sympathy for him?

2 examples of this:

Megs for pres wrote: I did think 16 dollars for my delux cliff jumper at TRU was indeed INSANE!


The going rate internationally for deluxes is $33USD.

Mindewipe24 wrote:Mildly annoying if your made of money...., post me back when next year they are $40 bucks for a voyager and tell me that's not "insane" >:oP


Roughly $55USD is what the current going rate for Voyagers for international fans.

You say we should all want prices to drop for all of us and I completely agree. However that's not what's happening here. Most of the arguments coming forth demonstrate a complete obliviousness to the realities of prices outside the borders of the USA (and I say that because last I checked, even Canada was paying international prices- admittedly that was 10 years ago though when I was last there). How can people want everyone to work together when they are completely blind to the whole picture?



There was nothing contradictory about my statement. Everything I said makes perfect sense and continues to hold true.
If inmate A wants to whine because inmate B is sick about their 3 years, even though inmate A might have more time then Inmate A would be wrong for thinking that way and it wouldnt speed up time for anyone. all parties involved would still be sick with the current situation.
Let me put it likew this. If some fan from the mid east or elsewhere busted in here telling you how you need to quiet down because he has to pay 40 bucks for a deluxe and 60 for a voyager, would you say "damn. I guess I dont have it so bad after all!" or would you think more along the lines of "well that sucks, but it dosent make it any asier for me to swallow at the checkout line"?
Im inclined to believe youd lean more twards opinion B.
Also I may be new here, but in the posts Ive read I have never seen where someone typed "you mean there are fans outside the u.s.? they pay more than we do? SO WHAT!!"
Noone here has denied that you guys, or anyone else outside the usa dosent pay a higher rate than us. To read your posts youd think otherwise.
IDK where you got it from but it is...."mildly annoying"
How about this sir. Each time I display a sadness for prices here I will acknowledge that canadians and other places pay more as well. MORE than usa even. That should fix your problem.
Thing is, as I tried to tell you twice before, It wont make it any better for us here. we will still be over paying no matter how much you stand on a cross screaming about how americans need to shut up because you pay even more.
My opinion? sounds like there are other underlying problems at work here that you may need to adress.
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Re: Toys r us

Postby Bowspearer » Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:06 am

Megs for pres wrote: There was nothing contradictory about my statement. Everything I said makes perfect sense and continues to hold true.
If other inmates want to whine because someone else is sad about their time, even though another person might have more time then THEY WOULD BE WHONG FOR THINKING THAT WAY and it wouldnt speed up time for anyone. Everyone would still be sick with the current situation.


Ok, let's use your inmates analogy here. You have a group of people in the slammer who's had a sentence increased from 1 year to 5 years say and are less than happy with it. Sure they're going to be less than happy, but when they're claiming it's the end of the world to a group of people who have gotten say 20 years for the same crime, the later group is going to wonder about perspective but generally not say anything, because they're adjusting.

However in that analogy, people in that 5 year sentence group suddenly make panic mongering claims that the sentence might even go as high as 10 years like it's the end of the world. At that point, the 20 year sentence group are going to be less than impressed and at the very least tell the 5 year sentence group to pull their heads in and get some perspective - if not give them a smack in the mouth (fyi I'm not advocating for violence here - just merely working with the analogy that someone else threw into the mix).

Megs for pres wrote: Also I may be new here, but in the posts Ive read I have never read a post where someone typed "canada?.....wheres that?"
Noone here has denied that you guys, or anyone else outside the usa dosent pay a higher rate than us. To read your posts youd think otherwise.
IDK where you got it from but it is...."mildly annoying"


Again you're missing the point. Noone has come out and made statements like that demonstrate a lack of geography - just statements which demonstrate a sheer ignorance of the realities of international fans. People raising a moral panic because prices might hit a worst case of $40 when that would be a sale price for international fans at retail - really does come across as self absorbed and it's going to alientate sympathy from international fans rather than encourage it.

I'll ignore most of the hyperbolic reactivity in what followed in your post, however I will say this. Finishing with an ad hominem is about the worst way to make a point with any credibility.
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Re: Toys r us

Postby Megs for pres » Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:33 am

Motto: "May all bad things come to those who have the means to help, yet choose no to."
Weapon: Fusion Cannon
I like how you ignored my question so Ill ask again. If some fan busted in here telling you how you need to quiet down because he has worse than ausies and must pay 40 bucks for a deluxe and 60 for a voyager, would you say "damn. I guess I dont have it so bad after all!" or would you think more along the lines of "well that sucks, but it dosent make it any easier for me to swallow at the checkout line"?Im inclined to believe youd lean more twards opinion B.
You are consistently wide of my points.
Also, if what you imply about hasbro selling "cheap" here and making up for it by selling high in Australia is true then guess what... I didnt give the green light and Id bet no one here did either. Hell Id wager that no American did for that matter so stop acting like its an American conspiracy and were all at fault.
Once again, try to understand that we over pay in the U.S.A and the fact that you pay even more dosent lessen the impact to our wallets.Your problems with our sadness of overpaying make no sense. Ive never seen anyone deny that you pay more and that is what you say your problem is. That the Americans are oblivious correct?
Well there are some yoyos all over the world. It stands to reason there could be a few that for some odd reason wont believe that you pay more and happen to also be American.
My response is that those people are silly and do not represent by any stretch of the imagination the majority of U.S. collectors. They would also easily be proven wrong.
If you say you pay more, I believe you and extend my condolences. Once more though. It wont make it easier for me to shell out 17.99 for a deluxe and it damn sure dosent deprive me of the right to express my concerns on this thread.
If that makes you want to assault me then you obviously have other problems,but I invite you to come try.
The way you ignore the obvious hypocrisy in your logic here (the hypocrisy ofcourse being that you chide the U.S. fans for complaining about prices as you boldly do the same) Makes no sense. It just makes you look you have some weird issue with Americans.
Finally I have been forced to bay up to 80 dollars and an average of 50 for 90% of my deluxe figures and 100 for my voyagers because I had to go ebay on the count of I started collecting late in the game. So by your own logic, I can now tell you that I dont want to hear you complain anymore because I have it worse than you. Right? Points made ;)
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