Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

Autobot032 wrote:I can't help it... lol

adiprizio829 wrote:I challenge anyone here to tell me the Michael bay movies are better than the 1985 animated movie.

Challenge accepted. The Bayverse movies are better than the Animated movie. The critics, box office and general consensus all prove it to be so. Those are facts. On a personal level? The original movie stunk.

While I won't argue your opinion, the only thing the live action movies have over the animated movie from '86 is the box office. Critically, all the movies have been torn to shreds. And the general consensus, I'm pretty sure there are just as many fans of the animated movie as the live action movies. That's why a 20th anniversary edition of the animated movie was released back in '06.

acchillyaout wrote: I have been a transformer fan longer than all of you put together.

Lol, yeah, I doubt that.

vegetacron wrote:You will find that there are generally two types of Transformer fans: Generation 1 fans and Bayformer fans.

Gen1 fans are the 30 somethings of today that grew up play with the original Tranformers back in the early to mid 80s and actually loved watching the 80s cartoons.

Bayformers are fans under 30 that either grew up in the 2000s or were teenyboppers when the first Bayformer movie came out. Bayformer fans love the Micheal Bay Transformer movies because really, that was their first exposure to intellectual property.

Most Gen1 fans just get along and except the Bayformer fans because Bayformer fans are usually the retards in the room that we all take pity on and graciously thank them for spending money on an IP that we grew up with. If it wasn't for them and Micheal Bay, we wouldn't have all this great Gen1 revival stuf that Hasbro keeps making.

Bayformer fans have something to prove. They generally hate the history of Transformers and believe that the true continuity is that of what Micheal Bay and Co have produced on the silver screen. To them Micheal Bay is the god of all Transformerdom.

Kinda retarded all around, but it is what it is. I stopped posting here as much because quite frankly, I rarely have the patience for the Bayformer fans. I just want them to kee0p watching the movies and buying the crap Bayformer stuff that comes out so we G1 fans keep getting the good Gen1 stuff.

So as my good friend John would say "Proooooceeed wit da bullshit!" lol

Wow. I don't even know where to begin with this, other than to call out how ridiculously condescending you are.

First off, I was born in 1985, and I grew up on a mix of G1 and G2. I fell in love with Beast Wars, my interest lapsed a bit, came back for RiD and Armada, my interest lapsed a bit, I came back for the movie and I've stuck around since.

This "True fan vs. untrue fan" stuff is ludicrous and makes the whole fanbase look bad.

You know what this francise needs? Chuck fr*kking Norris.

Autobot032 wrote:Yes, it does really matter. Average Joes, I can't comment on, but I can tell you that you're outright wrong on some of the converts being dullards. Just because they're n00b fans doesn't mean their desire is any less powerful than any of our's.

You act like the fandom belongs only to you. It doesn't. The doors are open to people of all ages and we should welcome them, not shun them.

If it wasn't for the increased revenue and popularity, we'd probably be facing a Power Rangers situation. The media sucked, except for RPM, the toys were stripped of their Japanese awesomeness and downsized along with entire features gutted, just to make them cheap enough to produce and sell. I remember what the original Power Rangers toys were like. Today's don't even compare. Trust me, you do not want that to happen to TransFormers. The movies pretty much saved the entire franchise when it was in danger of going stagnant. Proven fact? The movies and toyline did over a billion in 2007. The AEC trilogy pulled in about $75 mill. Google it, it's out there.

The movies were fun and breathtaking. Somewhat stupid, I admit, but it's a small price to pay to get what we want, and we do get what we want.

I just said I don't care about the money. Or even if the quality is roughed out and sub par. Atleast it might have some substance instead of a total misdirection of what the Transformers are about. Yea, I do feel TF belongs to me, because I have been a loyal supporter of it. Thats called customer loyalty of any product or service. Its the feeling that a customer has that ensures they stay with the product that is instilled by the company or organization. When the consumer, i.g. me, feels betrayed by one of their huge products, its a loss of a costumer due to this change in product image or form.
I don't like the new fans because they are being given the wrong impressions of what Transformers are, and that is a crappy movie that is all special effects and NOTHING else.

MINDVVIPE wrote:I don't like the new fans because they are being given the wrong impressions of what Transformers are, and that is a crappy movie that is all special effects and NOTHING else.

But that's YOUR opinion of what Transformers are and YOUR opinion of the quality of those films.

At the end of the day, there are tons of different ways you can get Transformers related things that satisfy your interest: comics, toys, DVDs, bobbleheads... the fact of the matter is, you wouldn't be able to get those things without the movies doing well, and fans of those movies aren't constantly wishing that all the G1 stuff disappears.

vegetacron wrote:You will find that there are generally two types of Transformer fans: Generation 1 fans and Bayformer fans.

Gen1 fans are the 30 somethings of today that grew up play with the original Tranformers back in the early to mid 80s and actually loved watching the 80s cartoons.

Bayformers are fans under 30 that either grew up in the 2000s or were teenyboppers when the first Bayformer movie came out. Bayformer fans love the Micheal Bay Transformer movies because really, that was their first exposure to intellectual property.

I really honestly believe that there should be a solid poll about this before we all assume that the vocal minority posters represent one of two general halves on Seibertron.

I was born in 1990. I grew up with Beast Wars, and later the series that followed. I was 17 when Transformers (2007) came out, and focusing on which colleges had my chosen career in video games available, and also happened to be going around Europe that summer. I recognized Transformers before they became the live-action films. But. It was Bayformers that taught me that there was an fandom, and the aesthetics really clicked with me, so since then I have actively bought product besides the shows.

vegetacron wrote:Most Gen1 fans just get along and except the Bayformer fans because Bayformer fans are usually the retards in the room that we all take pity on and graciously thank them for spending money on an IP that we grew up with. If it wasn't for them and Micheal Bay, we wouldn't have all this great Gen1 revival stuf that Hasbro keeps making.

Sure, I'm spending my money to support this. That's my choice, and I hope that in the future you won't patronize anyone who does, because you automatically generalize that we're retards who don't know any better, or who can't be better. Yes, the younglings can post stupid stuff. That's true anywhere you see people, not just here, not just on the internet. It's far more beneficial to point out specifically what is detrimental in their posts, and then hope that the parents have taken responsibility for teaching their children how to take constructive criticism. If they don't, that's what rules, bans, moderators, etc. are for, again, done while pointing out specifically what the problem is, so that they have a better opportunity for redeeming themselves if they so choose.

vegetacron wrote:Bayformer fans have something to prove. They generally hate the history of Transformers and believe that the true continuity is that of what Micheal Bay and Co have produced on the silver screen. To them Micheal Bay is the god of all Transformerdom.

Yes, I do have something to prove here. I would like to prove that I'm not out against all the rest of the fans, granted, I'm not just a 'bayformer fan,' but it is the continuity I am most passionate about.
I do not believe in a "true" continuity anymore than a true fan, nor do I hail Michael Bay as a person anymore than anyone else related to Transformers.

And I get along just fine with plenty of fans, G1 or otherwise.
Disagreement is just a product of our differing opinions....and the only reason I didn't merely not respond to your post was to voice a differing opinion on the matter, though one has already been brought up, which you then responded to.

Sodan-1 wrote: It's these differences that lead to constructive debates....

I hope my post is constructive in some way. I tried.


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I had friends on facebook posting the initial rumour about Jason coming on, and I simply let them know that there wasn't any concrete evidence to support it, and that this rumour had been shot down months before. I'm seriously wondering who brought it up in the first place, and whether it was the same person who has brought it up now, or if someone just dredged it up. Plenty of people still aren't aware of the initial rumour, as it was.

As for the next Transformers films, as I've stated before, I wouldn't mind a reboot. I'm going to miss the movieverse, but I, just as much as the next person, don't want it to wear its welcome out with the world and end on the worst note possible. Plus they've given us plenty of characters and designs to play with for years to come.
I'm just sad that Bumblebee's probably going to be taking his speechlessness with him to more continuities than I would care for. Out of all the things to take from the Bayverse....At least we got the cutest Animated Blackout from it!

Marcdachamp wrote:

MINDVVIPE wrote:I don't like the new fans because they are being given the wrong impressions of what Transformers are, and that is a crappy movie that is all special effects and NOTHING else.

But that's YOUR opinion of what Transformers are and YOUR opinion of the quality of those films.

At the end of the day, there are tons of different ways you can get Transformers related things that satisfy your interest: comics, toys, DVDs, bobbleheads... the fact of the matter is, you wouldn't be able to get those things without the movies doing well, and fans of those movies aren't constantly wishing that all the G1 stuff disappears.

Okay... i'll say it again so everyone can be clear on... MY opinion (no $#*! it is, you all keep pointing that out like I keep forgetting it is).

I don't care if TFs remained in the state it was before the movies came out. Even if it was at this crappy stage where it was just trodding along doing okay here and there, I would prefer that over the situation now, where someone will see my Decepticon tattoo and yell OPTIMUS! like some poser who just wants one more piece of popular trend to belong to.

Marcdachamp wrote:

MINDVVIPE wrote:I don't like the new fans because they are being given the wrong impressions of what Transformers are, and that is a crappy movie that is all special effects and NOTHING else.

But that's YOUR opinion of what Transformers are and YOUR opinion of the quality of those films.

At the end of the day, there are tons of different ways you can get Transformers related things that satisfy your interest: comics, toys, DVDs, bobbleheads... the fact of the matter is, you wouldn't be able to get those things without the movies doing well, and fans of those movies aren't constantly wishing that all the G1 stuff disappears.

ha ha ...
Philosophy!

that is true that is your opinion but this isn't to say there are others of the same opinions. in the end the movie will be about how the transformers are viewed from the one who offers the most money. or directs it.
and i personally think there are little differences between michael's movie tones and the "others".
other than these
1.M.'s is more realistic(on earth/real vehicles(if not alien),etc.)

2. the "others" have the transformers as more human like in which they have more human conflicts and actions.ex: rodimus springer arcee love V and things like jazz killing a human and not being psychotically same.

3.M.'s is more serious / the "others" are for the kids.

in the end i wish the "others" had more action and kept everything else. while i wish M.'s had A LOT LESS human backstory and more drama about the TFs and them being more human in psychology(love, wishes, internal conflicts, and same-side conflicts(ei:IDW ironhide hating mirage because mirage was believed to be a betrayer).

MINDVVIPE wrote:I just said I don't care about the money. Or even if the quality is roughed out and sub par. Atleast it might have some substance instead of a total misdirection of what the Transformers are about.

Wait...wait... How can it have quality and substance if it's "roughed out and sub par"? That makes absolutely no sense, you do see that, right? After reading that, I have no idea what you actually want. For all of my dislike for G1, even I have to say there was enough quality to it. Even it wasn't "roughed out and sub par". Well, at least not all of the time. So, obviously G1 doesn't impress you and the movies don't impress you. I'm getting the feeling you really have no idea what you want and you're grasping at straws.

At that point, the problem lies with you, not the franchise or it's different iterations.

MINDVVIPE wrote:Yea, I do feel TF belongs to me, because I have been a loyal supporter of it. Thats called customer loyalty of any product or service. Its the feeling that a customer has that ensures they stay with the product that is instilled by the company or organization. When the consumer, i.g. me, feels betrayed by one of their huge products, its a loss of a costumer due to this change in product image or form.

I used to think like you. Then I grew up. I'm a loyal supporter, I love TransFormers, but I don't own it. Never have. Hasbro has been loyal to their customers. Their service has been somewhat questionable, but they are loyal. I could understand your feelings if this was a several hundred dollars purchase such as a computer from a brand you love and invested in. Or a car that's been reliable for years and then they change it into a Yugo 2.0. That's not what's going on here, though. This is...

These toys have always been for children. They will always be marketed towards children. They will be changed, shaped, and adapted for children. You can either accept this and enjoy it, or not at all and be left out. The choice is your's.

MINDVVIPE wrote:I don't like the new fans because they are being given the wrong impressions of what Transformers are, and that is a crappy movie that is all special effects and NOTHING else.

...wait... You're holding it against the fans for being "misled"? So, they deserve to be disliked and even hated because someone fooled them? Do you have any idea how...CRUEL that sounds? In your scenario, the new fans are victims. In your scenario, you don't like the victims because they're victims and don't know it.

WTF?!?! *screams*

1.) The new fans are capable of finding other TF mythos. G1 cartoons or the DW/IDW comics, or fanfiction, etc. How dare you say they're stupid and incapable of more. You don't have that right.

2.) No one misled them. No one tricked them. It's their personal choice to stick with Bayverse or expand. If they choose not to, that's their right and there's nothing wrong with it. I like Beast Wars, even though I know it's a sequel of sorts to G1. That doesn't mean I have to like G1. Same applies to the new fans. Just because you say it as golden truth, doesn't mean it is.

All of this, plus the whole "I own it" thing further proves my point concerning this sense of entitlement everyone in the fandom has. I don't know where we got it, why we have it, or how to fix it, but it needs to go the hell away. NOW.

We are owed nothing. We are but tiny cogs in a very large machine that makes very large amounts of money. The fact that we're even recognized and catered to should be enough, but it never is.

If Hasbro ever does anything out of spite, towards us, it's well deserved and earned.

Autobot032 wrote:

MINDVVIPE wrote:I just said I don't care about the money. Or even if the quality is roughed out and sub par. Atleast it might have some substance instead of a total misdirection of what the Transformers are about.

Wait...wait... How can it have quality and substance if it's "roughed out and sub par"? That makes absolutely no sense, you do see that, right? After reading that, I have no idea what you actually want. For all of my dislike for G1, even I have to say there was enough quality to it. Even it wasn't "roughed out and sub par". Well, at least not all of the time. So, obviously G1 doesn't impress you and the movies don't impress you. I'm getting the feeling you really have no idea what you want and you're grasping at straws.

At that point, the problem lies with you, not the franchise or it's different iterations.

MINDVVIPE wrote:Yea, I do feel TF belongs to me, because I have been a loyal supporter of it. Thats called customer loyalty of any product or service. Its the feeling that a customer has that ensures they stay with the product that is instilled by the company or organization. When the consumer, i.g. me, feels betrayed by one of their huge products, its a loss of a costumer due to this change in product image or form.

I used to think like you. Then I grew up. I'm a loyal supporter, I love TransFormers, but I don't own it. Never have. Hasbro has been loyal to their customers. Their service has been somewhat questionable, but they are loyal. I could understand your feelings if this was a several hundred dollars purchase such as a computer from a brand you love and invested in. Or a car that's been reliable for years and then they change it into a Yugo 2.0. That's not what's going on here, though. This is...

These toys have always been for children. They will always be marketed towards children. They will be changed, shaped, and adapted for children. You can either accept this and enjoy it, or not at all and be left out. The choice is your's.

MINDVVIPE wrote:I don't like the new fans because they are being given the wrong impressions of what Transformers are, and that is a crappy movie that is all special effects and NOTHING else.

...wait... You're holding it against the fans for being "misled"? So, they deserve to be disliked and even hated because someone fooled them? Do you have any idea how...CRUEL that sounds? In your scenario, the new fans are victims. In your scenario, you don't like the victims because they're victims and don't know it.

WTF?!?! *screams*

1.) The new fans are capable of finding other TF mythos. G1 cartoons or the DW/IDW comics, or fanfiction, etc. How dare you say they're stupid and incapable of more. You don't have that right.

2.) No one misled them. No one tricked them. It's their personal choice to stick with Bayverse or expand. If they choose not to, that's their right and there's nothing wrong with it. I like Beast Wars, even though I know it's a sequel of sorts to G1. That doesn't mean I have to like G1. Same applies to the new fans. Just because you say it as golden truth, doesn't mean it is.

All of this, plus the whole "I own it" thing further proves my point concerning this sense of entitlement everyone in the fandom has. I don't know where we got it, why we have it, or how to fix it, but it needs to go the hell away. NOW.

We are owed nothing. We are but tiny cogs in a very large machine that makes very large amounts of money. The fact that we're even recognized and catered to should be enough, but it never is.

If Hasbro ever does anything out of spite, towards us, it's well deserved and earned.

You can have substance on a lowbudget. Star Wars - A new hope, compared to Star wars The Phantom menace.
You missed my point. You heard what you wanted to hear. I don't care to further debate.