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Capt.Failure wrote:

datguy86 wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:That said I really hope this is legit. Would love to see Galvatron and the Dinobots, the former especially since Unicron can't be far behind. As for the "samurai" 'bot I can't wait for the cries of racism from the social justice crowd. The concept of regaining honor through battle or even death has been used in characterization forever and not exclusively in Japan. You know, kind of like how ghetto punk attitudes aren't exclusively black but that didn't stop cries of racism last time. Social justice bloggers aren't very educated individuals though.

To paraphrase: "Let's fight racism with stereotyping." Got it.

In terms of the film - just give me toys of Grimlock, Swoop, Slag, Sludge, and Snarl. If the movieverse toys sell well, then these guys may get a Generations re-imagining (or in Grimlock's case, a potential wide-scale reissue).

It would do you good not to put words in my mouth. If people have a thin skin that's their malfunction. No one should censor themselves because other people are too sensitive. Fact.

Opinion.

datguy86 wrote:While I agree to a certain extent people shouldn't have to censor themselves; your statement is the very expression of opinion. What I was trying to point out is the flaw in your argument. How it does me no good to put words in your mouth (did it offend you? should I have censored myself?) is approaching irrelevant; your actual arguments contain hypocritical flaws.

So when some social justice warrior decides to call me a homophobe because I laughed when Skidz told Leo, "Go whine to your boyfriend!" makes them absolutely correct about me? A funny notion to follow when I'm a) gay, and b) pro-gay rights and c) too aware of the real problems in the world to concern myself with simple words that mean nothing. The day people stop letting words hurt them is the day a lot of things wrong with mankind go away. Simple truth right there. I will say it one more time: people being overly sensitive has no bearing on bigotry. I've experienced true bigotry in my life enough times to know when it's a concern. Bay's films are not one of those times.

Also there's a difference between taking offense and correcting someone's false insinuations about my intentions.

njb902 wrote:Opinion.

No.

Capt.Failure wrote:

datguy86 wrote:While I agree to a certain extent people shouldn't have to censor themselves; your statement is the very expression of opinion. What I was trying to point out is the flaw in your argument. How it does me no good to put words in your mouth (did it offend you? should I have censored myself?) is approaching irrelevant; your actual arguments contain hypocritical flaws.

So when some social justice warrior decides to call me a homophobe because I laughed when Skidz told Leo, "Go whine to your boyfriend!" makes them absolutely correct about me? A funny notion to follow when I'm a) gay, and b) pro-gay rights and c) too aware of the real problems in the world to concern myself with simple words that mean nothing. The day people stop letting words hurt them is the day a lot of things wrong with mankind go away. Simple truth right there. I will say it one more time: people being overly sensitive has no bearing on bigotry. I've experienced true bigotry in my life enough times to know when it's a concern. Bay's films are not one of those times.

Also there's a difference between taking offense and correcting someone's false insinuations about my intentions.

njb902 wrote:Opinion.

No.

There are people who can't help but be affected by words or actions. I work with people that have ptsd twice a week, there are things I would never say to/around them, it would be counter productive to helping them. I'm sure there are thousands of other examples, but that's the one I'm going with.

On topic, I think I'll wait a while before believing this just yet. Isn't bay know for being purposely misleading?

Capt.Failure wrote:

datguy86 wrote:While I agree to a certain extent people shouldn't have to censor themselves; your statement is the very expression of opinion. What I was trying to point out is the flaw in your argument. How it does me no good to put words in your mouth (did it offend you? should I have censored myself?) is approaching irrelevant; your actual arguments contain hypocritical flaws.

So when some social justice warrior decides to call me a homophobe because I laughed when Skidz told Leo, "Go whine to your boyfriend!" makes them absolutely correct about me? A funny notion to follow when I'm a) gay, and b) pro-gay rights and c) too aware of the real problems in the world to concern myself with simple words that mean nothing. The day people stop letting words hurt them is the day a lot of things wrong with mankind go away. Simple truth right there. I will say it one more time: people being overly sensitive has no bearing on bigotry. I've experienced true bigotry in my life enough times to know when it's a concern. Bay's films are not one of those times.

Also there's a difference between taking offense and correcting someone's false insinuations about my intentions.

Except not every "social justice warrior" is the same person with the same argument. There are bandwagons (hey look at this Transformers fandom for more than a few examples), but when you stereotype all of them for being of the same opinion you are using a hypocritical argument. To most readers, this is a failing argument.

And I'll say it more clearly - I am not deriding your beliefs about the power of words. I actually agree. Your arguments are, much like Revenge of the Fallen and Dark of the Moon; very poorly written and contain absolutely no weight. Your beliefs do not offend me. Your choice of words is terrible.

Furthermore, your lifestyle choice and past experiences are unfortunately irrelevant in a place where such practices are not well-documented. I have been the victim of hate crimes in the past as well. However, I cannot use those to justify arguments since there is no documentation to support justification with. Winning my sympathy is not going to win the argument.

Finally, while I agree with you on how the power of words is lessened against an individual who has transcended their meanings; this is a philosophy. It is truth to you as a person, but opinion to those who do not hold the same philosophical learning. It is A way. It is not THE way. It is an opinion on how to voice opinion.

And no, I have no clue what THE way is.

Capt.Failure wrote:

reluctantyouth wrote:This is great news rumor or not...my only thought is this and it is a valid one. If Bay does give us Dinobots then I'm almost certain they will end up being the comic relief. I see Mudlfap and Skidz hoopla all over again...what minority group is Bay going to insult this time?

No one can offend you. You can only chose to take offense.

Also if you think the Dinobots, awesome as they are, weren't the comic relief team in Generation 1 then you don't remember it very well.

You should encapsulate some of that with sarcasm tags...

Unless I can say "STFU!" without insulting you. Which would be AMAZING. It'd be more accurate to say, "People take offense at the most minimal criticism, even discovering criticism where none is to be found."

Shouldn't Bay focus on some China-centric characters? The movie is being shot with Chinese audiences in mind, this time, so hopefully that translates to some classier scenes with the human characters. No more retardicon parents, please. Or do Chinese audiences love "American Pie"? I really don't know.

Furthermore, your lifestyle choice

While you just invalidated your argument right here, I'll humor you some.

and past experiences are unfortunately irrelevant in a place where such practices are not well-documented. I have been the victim of hate crimes in the past as well. However, I cannot use those to justify arguments since there is no documentation to support justification with. Winning my sympathy is not going to win the argument.

Here's the problem. "Past experiences" are always used to justify attempted censorship and cries of racism in these films. How come it's irrelevant when someone attempts to say it's no big deal?

Practice what you preach.

Finally, while I agree with you on how the power of words is lessened against an individual who has transcended their meanings; this is a philosophy. It is truth to you as a person, but opinion to those who do not hold the same philosophical learning. It is A way. It is not THE way. It is an opinion on how to voice opinion.

It is not philosophy so much as it's cold, hard logic. And opinion has no place in the realm of logic.

Oh look, a movie news thread and people are bickering again.

Grow up children. If you're going to debate, please do it without the insults and snide remarks.

Burn wrote:Oh look, a movie news thread and people are bickering again.

Grow up children. If you're going to debate, please do it without the insults and snide remarks.

When the social justice liberals stop trying to turn America into an Orwellian state with their thought police attitudes, sure.

And...back on topic.

What with the current cast of actors and (rumored) cast of TF's, I'm almost confident that Bay's headed to a more mature and less toilet-humor oriented theme for the TF movies.

That said, I'm worried about how the Dinobots will be portrayed. They were idiots in the G1 cartoons, and Bay's penchant for crazy comic relief characters isn't helping. But hey...we might get to see Dinobots in the movie!

Speaking of which, I'm hoping Dinobot from BW is the rumored "samurai", although it would almost certainly be Drift.

SKYWARPED_128 wrote:And...back on topic.

What with the current cast of actors and (rumored) cast of TF's, I'm almost confident that Bay's headed to a more mature and less toilet-humor oriented theme for the TF movies.

That said, I'm worried about how the Dinobots will be portrayed. They were idiots in the G1 cartoons, and Bay's penchant for crazy comic relief characters isn't helping. But hey...we might get to see Dinobots in the movie!

Speaking of which, I'm hoping Dinobot from BW is the rumored "samurai", although it would almost certainly be Drift.

I do hope they go with the vicious early dinobots rather than the movie/latter seasons "funny" variety.

Edit: if they do them at all.

if this rumor is true let it be drift riing dinosbots dont let that happen if its possible and who really wants BUMBLEE, OPTIMUSS PRIME's clogging up more shelf space as long we get more new characters on shelf space

Did something happen to derail this topic?

Manterax Prime wrote:Did something happen to derail this topic?

This post perhaps?

njb902 wrote:

SKYWARPED_128 wrote:And...back on topic.

What with the current cast of actors and (rumored) cast of TF's, I'm almost confident that Bay's headed to a more mature and less toilet-humor oriented theme for the TF movies.

That said, I'm worried about how the Dinobots will be portrayed. They were idiots in the G1 cartoons, and Bay's penchant for crazy comic relief characters isn't helping. But hey...we might get to see Dinobots in the movie!

Speaking of which, I'm hoping Dinobot from BW is the rumored "samurai", although it would almost certainly be Drift.

I do hope they go with the vicious early dinobots rather than the movie/latter seasons "funny" variety.

Edit: if they do them at all.

Here's hoping. The characterizations in FOC would be perfect.

Capt.Failure wrote:As for the "samurai" 'bot I can't wait for the cries of racism from the social justice crowd. The concept of regaining honor through battle or even death has been used in characterization forever and not exclusively in Japan. You know, kind of like how ghetto punk attitudes aren't exclusively black but that didn't stop cries of racism last time. Social justice bloggers aren't very educated individuals though.

How, in the name of Primus, is that even suggestive of "racism"??? Dude, I have a doctorate in sociology (with a specialization in world systems) and even I DID NOT TAKE OFFENSE to that kind of language. Oh, and by the way, I am half Japanese from my mother's side (niisei) and half Chinese from my father's side. I also am well-versed in JSA with over 15 years of training in Tenshin Shoden and know quite well about bushido, along with Hollywood AND Japan's hype over the "samurai code." The "samurai 'bot" theme does not even imply any sort of racism whatsoever, albeit the whole idea of "regaining one's honor" has been latched on to Japanese pre-Meiji culture as of late. Yet--here is the caveat--if it is inherently racist in making that sort of "logical" connection, then why would the Japanese capitalize on that type of "racist" stereotype in their media whereby the "lone samurai warrior must regain his honor blah blah blah"???

Anyhow, tl;dr: Don't read too deeply into this stuff, buddy. I'm sure it's only you (and probably a handful of other people) who are seeing yet another "racist" moment; by claiming that others can see this as "racist," you inadvertently imply that you are making a racism connection and it actually ends up making you sound xenophobic. Also, by bringing up this sore subject, you're just baiting the "racist" debate by "attempting" to avoid it...and, of course, I fall for the bait.

I really cannot wait to see this movie - my movie figures have been feeling lonely lately so anybody in that list will be a great addition to the movie universe, to the movie display! This is how I feel right now

roBROmanceFTW wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:As for the "samurai" 'bot I can't wait for the cries of racism from the social justice crowd. The concept of regaining honor through battle or even death has been used in characterization forever and not exclusively in Japan. You know, kind of like how ghetto punk attitudes aren't exclusively black but that didn't stop cries of racism last time. Social justice bloggers aren't very educated individuals though.

How, in the name of Primus, is that even suggestive of "racism"??? Dude, I have a doctorate in sociology (with a specialization in world systems) and even I DID NOT TAKE OFFENSE to that kind of language. Oh, and by the way, I am half Japanese from my mother's side (niisei) and half Chinese from my father's side. I also am well-versed in JSA with over 15 years of training in Tenshin Shoden and know quite well about bushido, along with Hollywood AND Japan's hype over the "samurai code." The "samurai 'bot" theme does not even imply any sort of racism whatsoever, albeit the whole idea of "regaining one's honor" has been latched on to Japanese pre-Meiji culture as of late. Yet--here is the caveat--if it is inherently racist in making that sort of "logical" connection, then why would the Japanese capitalize on that type of "racist" stereotype in their media whereby the "lone samurai warrior must regain his honor blah blah blah"???

Anyhow, tl;dr: Don't read too deeply into this stuff, buddy. I'm sure it's only you (and probably a handful of other people) who are seeing yet another "racist" moment; by claiming that others can see this as "racist," you inadvertently imply that you are making a racism connection and it actually ends up making you sound xenophobic. Also, by bringing up this sore subject, you're just baiting the "racist" debate by "attempting" to avoid it...and, of course, I fall for the bait.

First off: Wow, really? That's awesome.

Second: Sorry to imply that, really didn't mean to. With all the social justice crap invading media nowadays I'd just like one movie or game to release without causing some kind of unnecessary controversy because someone was too sensitive. Also sorry for the inadvertent baiting. Wasn't the intent, just griping about the state of social activism in media.

However in regards to your statement it's not Japanese viewers I worry about being offended. Rather it's the white middle American social justice warriors I worry about.

And with that I'll get back on topic: So...with Galvatron rumored to be coming would you say Unicron is more or less confirmed by association?

Capt.Failure wrote:

Furthermore, your lifestyle choice

While you just invalidated your argument right here, I'll humor you some.

and past experiences are unfortunately irrelevant in a place where such practices are not well-documented. I have been the victim of hate crimes in the past as well. However, I cannot use those to justify arguments since there is no documentation to support justification with. Winning my sympathy is not going to win the argument.

Here's the problem. "Past experiences" are always used to justify attempted censorship and cries of racism in these films. How come it's irrelevant when someone attempts to say it's no big deal?

Practice what you preach.

Finally, while I agree with you on how the power of words is lessened against an individual who has transcended their meanings; this is a philosophy. It is truth to you as a person, but opinion to those who do not hold the same philosophical learning. It is A way. It is not THE way. It is an opinion on how to voice opinion.

It is not philosophy so much as it's cold, hard logic. And opinion has no place in the realm of logic.

First off, I'd like to apologize for my usage of the words "lifestyle choices". Those words are wholly incorrect and I apologize to anyone offended by them. I should know better.

Yes, the conjecture of this thread is brought upon by the past experiences of the movies. However, the movies are something everyone participating in this thread has most likely seen. Therefore, the posters can extrapolate future comments based on actual observations. Your past and mine? No one can vouch for them but us, and even then it's only as individuals.

No one has the right to tell you to be offended, because (as you have stated) you choose what to be offended by. I agree with you. This is part of personal responsibility.

What I did not agree with is fighting the concept of racism as put forth by social media interest groups with the stereotyping of social media groups. Many of these people are in fact well-educated; and many advocate the same sense of personal responsibility you espouse (but the pundits tend be the loudest). Using stereotypes to fight such a thing is like using a double-negative in a sentence.

In my opinion, the latter two movies have terrible plots and bad characterization. About the only thing I realistically expect from the fourth film is some sexual closeups of Bingbing Li, another few moments of Optimus Prime: Portrait of a Serial Killer, and one solid hour of Army dudes doing Army things with Army tech. In a movie about giant robots.

Seriously, why didn't Michael Bay direct the Joe movies? I don't get it.

And tumbling! I forgot combat rolls made up of robot parts. I expect those too.

Capt.Failure wrote:And with that I'll get back on topic:

How nice of you to do that...

No more off topic discussion please. In ANY movie related news thread.

Oh my, that sounds good. Can't wait to see what they'll look like in the movie (if the rumor is true).

Megatron has already been brought back from death once. To really justify the name changed he'd have to be revived by something more powerful.

Mykltron wrote:Megatron has already been brought back from death once. To really justify the name changed he'd have to be revived by something more powerful.

I could be wrong on this, but I think the comics version of Galvatron wasn't a reformat of Megatron, but a completely different character.

This, of course, has been a subject of endless controversy by fans. It's up to Bay decided whether to make him a reformatted Megs or a different character.

SKYWARPED_128 wrote:

Mykltron wrote:Megatron has already been brought back from death once. To really justify the name changed he'd have to be revived by something more powerful.

I could be wrong on this, but I think the comics version of Galvatron wasn't a reformat of Megatron, but a completely different character.

This, of course, has been a subject of endless controversy by fans. It's up to Bay decided whether to make him a reformatted Megs or a different character.

Yes, in the IDW universe, Galvatron was one of Nova (Nemesis) Primes crew who came back from the dead universe.

Personally, I actually quite liked the idea from that confirmed fake leaked script from a while ago, where Galvatron turns up as his own character, and as a herald of Unicron, but then gets possessed by Megatron, who's conciousness somehow survived.

I can see Hound being the tough guy replacement for Ironhide, and Lockdown being a typical Bay decepticon, with a few lines, similar to movie 1 Barricade.

Hopefully the dinobots will be handled well, although I think they are no doubt going to be the 'comic relief', even if it is very toned down. I also am not getting my hopes set high for all five dinobots making an appearance, I think Bay may choose to go the animated route and stick with three to cut costs a little.

The samurai character sounds pretty obviously like Drift/Deadlock, but unless they change his design he will be the third sword wielding fast car autobot on the team, after Sideswipe and Mirage. This leads me to believe however that either one or both of them won't be appearing (for unexplained reasons probably...RIP Jolt, Skids, Mudflap), or they will be completely reimagined.

When Bay first said about the reimagining of the robots, I was hoping he just meant updated designs for the existing characters, but I suppose it is possible that he could change their personalities as well, although im sure many will argue that that's no great loss, as they hardly had any personality in the first place.

Capt.Failure wrote:You know, kind of like how ghetto punk attitudes aren't exclusively black but that didn't stop cries of racism last time. Social justice bloggers aren't very educated individuals though.

Ill be at Botcon in San Diego if you got anything you wanna say to my face.