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Evil_the_Nub wrote:

GetRightRobot wrote:It's not so much Bay's style that confounds me. Actually, explosion obsession goes well with waring alien robots. It's everything else. A lot is the scripting. Terrible story telling. I know the movies grossed a metric $*&(^ ton of money, but they (all 3) got terrible reviews from not only critics, but many fans. The movies fall into an all flash, no substance category for me. It's as if, they don't really count. My complaint, is that as long as the movies continue the way they are going, it will always be a joke, summer action flick with no merit for story telling or character development. These movies will not impact another generation like previous iterations of transformers have. Why? because every movie now has jaw dropping special effects, 3d features and T & A. They are not special or exceptional in any way.

The G1 cartoon wasn't that special either, but people are still enamored with it. So enamored in fact that it's practically a weird obsession. It was a 30 minute toy commercial and nothing more. No great character development, no deep stories, just a bunch of robots looking cool so kids would cry and scream for their parents to buy the toys. And you know what? We loved it anyway.

Well, I hear what you are saying. And it's not incorrect. But compare some G1 characters. They had character. Slap stick, trope filled characters I'll be it. Examples:
Cosmo - sweet heart Russian
Tracks - arrogant aristocrat
Sunstreaker - vain pretty boy
BumbleBee - devoted sidekick

And these characters were not the major ones, well Bee was, but not like he is now.

You can fit a personality trait to so many characters from G1 and Beast Wars inwhich the description needs only a few words. The movies do not have enough time to develop more than 3 Characters, Prime, BumbleBee and Starscream. I mean, what was the deal with the 3 Arcee Twins?

What kind of personality did Jolt have? Or any of the dozens of nameless, non consequential charcters in the movies. It is a different environment. Saturday morning cartoons don't mean anything to children these days, the times have changed. A movie every 2 - 3 years cannot capture an audience like a weekend tradition.

Also, as a result of the times, Transformers are no longer the revolution they once were. Transforming action figures have existed forever in the lives of many collectors. The 80's ushered in a marvel of design and execution that had not been witnessed by western markets. Now it's nothing new. All major big-budget films enact stunning visuals, but it's common place. Even Dark of the Moon's daunting accomplishments in complexity are lost on most average movie goers, because it is now expected.

I think this is the longest post I've ever written, and I am not trying to simply bash on the movies or fans. If Revenge of the Fallen had been a 20 or so, 30 minute weekly series, I think it would have been much better. But in order to squeeze SO much (nearly 30 years of crudely hacked canon) into such a short time, ruins the ability to tell a good story.

Please people, don't think less of me. This is only my opinion and I just want another Generation of fans to be enamored with this franchise as I was. As many of us are.

I've Bay bashed in the past and no doubt I will again in the future. But all I have to say is, please, please get a new writing staff. Keep the aesthetics of the bayverse, keep the explosions, keep everything the way Michael Bay wants it.

Just please give us a decent story.

SlyTF1 wrote:

Evil_the_Nub wrote:

GetRightRobot wrote:It's not so much Bay's style that confounds me. Actually, explosion obsession goes well with waring alien robots. It's everything else. A lot is the scripting. Terrible story telling. I know the movies grossed a metric $*&(^ ton of money, but they (all 3) got terrible reviews from not only critics, but many fans. The movies fall into an all flash, no substance category for me. It's as if, they don't really count. My complaint, is that as long as the movies continue the way they are going, it will always be a joke, summer action flick with no merit for story telling or character development. These movies will not impact another generation like previous iterations of transformers have. Why? because every movie now has jaw dropping special effects, 3d features and T & A. They are not special or exceptional in any way.

The G1 cartoon wasn't that special either, but people are still enamored with it. So enamored in fact that it's practically a weird obsession. It was a 30 minute toy commercial and nothing more. No great character development, no deep stories, just a bunch of robots looking cool so kids would cry and scream for their parents to buy the toys. And you know what? We loved it anyway.

I noticed the same damn thing while I've been watching G1 the past few weeks. At least the movies try to have a story.

Why do people who make an argument for or against the movie always fall back on G1? That's not the only Transformers story out there. There have been WAAAAAAY better tellings of the story since G1. If writers and directors are only going off of G1 then they'll never do it justice.

Sodan-1 wrote:Megatron's personality (I think he's a properly cold mutha trucker)

Being cold and menacing is one thing, but to me he really does not have the "calculating" aspect. Up until Unicron shorted him at the end of the season he just acted like a power mad lunatic. Maybe I'm just too enthralled by the Megatron in the comics.

G1 Legacy wrote:TRANSFORMERS has become a victim of its own success.

Truer words are rarely spoken.

Vicalliose wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

Evil_the_Nub wrote:

GetRightRobot wrote:It's not so much Bay's style that confounds me. Actually, explosion obsession goes well with waring alien robots. It's everything else. A lot is the scripting. Terrible story telling. I know the movies grossed a metric $*&(^ ton of money, but they (all 3) got terrible reviews from not only critics, but many fans. The movies fall into an all flash, no substance category for me. It's as if, they don't really count. My complaint, is that as long as the movies continue the way they are going, it will always be a joke, summer action flick with no merit for story telling or character development. These movies will not impact another generation like previous iterations of transformers have. Why? because every movie now has jaw dropping special effects, 3d features and T & A. They are not special or exceptional in any way.

The G1 cartoon wasn't that special either, but people are still enamored with it. So enamored in fact that it's practically a weird obsession. It was a 30 minute toy commercial and nothing more. No great character development, no deep stories, just a bunch of robots looking cool so kids would cry and scream for their parents to buy the toys. And you know what? We loved it anyway.

I noticed the same damn thing while I've been watching G1 the past few weeks. At least the movies try to have a story.

Why do people who make an argument for or against the movie always fall back on G1? That's not the only Transformers story out there. There have been WAAAAAAY better tellings of the story since G1. If writers and directors are only going off of G1 then they'll never do it justice.

Because that's what the people complaining the loudest always want "Moar Geewun!!" "Make the robots look like they're made of bland detail-less cardboard boxes like in Geewun!" "Use the exact same 1980's vehicles from Geewun, even though you never see on the road anymore" They've got their nostalgia goggles on so tight it's cutting off the blood flow to their brains. I know the movies have their flaws, but making it "moar Geewun!" is only going to make it worse. More character development and less human shenanigans, that's fine, I welcome it. Making the bots look like they were designed by a 5 year old and giving them outdated alt modes? Terrible ideas.

Evil_the_Nub wrote:Because that's what the people complaining the loudest always want "Moar Geewun!!" "Make the robots look like they're made of bland detail-less cardboard boxes like in Geewun!" "Use the exact same 1980's vehicles from Geewun, even though you never see on the road anymore" They've got their nostalgia goggles on so tight it's cutting off the blood flow to their brains. I know the movies have their flaws, but making it "moar Geewun!" is only going to make it worse. More character development and less human shenanigans, that's fine, I welcome it. Making the bots look like they were designed by a 5 year old and giving them outdated alt modes? Terrible ideas.

The people who cannot even come up with good arguments do irritate me. But it's getting to a point that the people who defend the movies mention it more often than we do.

I always personally thought it made more sense that Cybertronians used their alt-mode parts as armor. I just think that the outright buglike appearance they used in the Bay films was a little overboard. Optimus' design in the movies is about where I'd like everyone in a realistic film to be, with the exception is his faec. I believe they should have something a little more humanoid covering their terminator face.

I mean why not? It's not as if them having a face or teeth in the first place makes any sense.

Also, to be fair, several of the Autobots have car modes based on concept cars. Those shouldn't be all that common on the road either. In fact, depending on where you live, you should see old cars more commonly than anything else. It's not like flat-nose trucks have completely disappeared. And in the case of characters like Bumblebee, his alt mode doesn't even reflect his character or name sake. They could have chosen any modern compact car if they wanted to.

Vicalliose wrote:The people who cannot even come up with good arguments do irritate me. But it's getting to a point that the people who defend the movies mention it more often than we do.

I always personally thought it made more sense that Cybertronians used their alt-mode parts as armor. I just think that the outright buglike appearance they used in the Bay films was a little overboard. Optimus' design in the movies is about where I'd like everyone in a realistic film to be, with the exception is his faec. I believe they should have something a little more humanoid covering their terminator face.

I mean why not? It's not as if them having a face or teeth in the first place makes any sense.

Also, to be fair, several of the Autobots have car modes based on concept cars. Those shouldn't be all that common on the road either. In fact, depending on where you live, you should see old cars more commonly than anything else. It's not like flat-nose trucks have completely disappeared. And in the case of characters like Bumblebee, his alt mode doesn't even reflect his character or name sake. They could have chosen any modern compact car if they wanted to.

There you go. Theres how it can be G1 and still kick ass. Just look to the comics. And ya, I don't think I've seen a concept sting ray like sideswipe on the road, but I have seen lots of lamborghinis that could be red OOOHHH right i forgot, this is also a long car commercial to sell american sponsored cars. pft

If they atleast looked like the models from TF Prime, that would be a fair and excellent comprimise imo.

MINDVVIPE wrote:

Vicalliose wrote:The people who cannot even come up with good arguments do irritate me. But it's getting to a point that the people who defend the movies mention it more often than we do.

I always personally thought it made more sense that Cybertronians used their alt-mode parts as armor. I just think that the outright buglike appearance they used in the Bay films was a little overboard. Optimus' design in the movies is about where I'd like everyone in a realistic film to be, with the exception is his faec. I believe they should have something a little more humanoid covering their terminator face.

I mean why not? It's not as if them having a face or teeth in the first place makes any sense.

Also, to be fair, several of the Autobots have car modes based on concept cars. Those shouldn't be all that common on the road either. In fact, depending on where you live, you should see old cars more commonly than anything else. It's not like flat-nose trucks have completely disappeared. And in the case of characters like Bumblebee, his alt mode doesn't even reflect his character or name sake. They could have chosen any modern compact car if they wanted to.

There you go. Theres how it can be G1 and still kick ass. Just look to the comics. And ya, I don't think I've seen a concept sting ray like sideswipe on the road, but I have seen lots of lamborghinis that could be red OOOHHH right i forgot, this is also a long car commercial to sell american sponsored cars. pft

If they atleast looked like the models from TF Prime, that would be a fair and excellent comprimise imo.

When the hell did you ever see a car carrier that looked like G1 ultra magnus? or a handgun the size of a building? Or anything that looked like rodimus?

Could someone please explain what the difference between re-imagining and re-boot is?

If anyone has watched the extras disc in the Dotm 3d Blu-ray Bay mentions himself that he will do another TF movie after a break to do some other things. And right at the end before the credits on the extras disc roll 'to be continued' pops up! After Dotm making the most money out of the 3 Bay is hardly gonna hand over the money printing machine to somebody else.

I grew up on G1 (I'm 31) and really dig the Movieverse art/design style as I could never have imagined what a photo realistic transformer could look like. Ok maybe some designs are abit too busy, but trying to recreate the G1 style would be silly like power rangers.

I think Bay came back because he finally got the go ahead with Paramount for 'Pain and Gain' and in exchange for Paramount. He decided to come back to the franchise otherwise we're probably talking about a true reboot. There are also rumblings about Transformers 4 and 5 being back to back.

With the 3 year layoff between 3 and 4. Hopefully that allows everyone to go back to the drawing board with a film that had a nice fun balance which is what I believe the 2007 movie was only to be followed up by the uneven mess that was ROTF and the kind of abrupt DOTM.

Regardless of whats done. I still expect some form of human lead to be the catalyst for the surrounding story. Whether that be Shia or Josh and Tyrese having the film built around them or someone like Statham or Dwayne Johnson.

Shia makes the most sense considering he has had the backing of Spielberg for quite some time and Shia's career outside of Transformers is a bit muddled. So I suppose they could talk him back into it. He claims money is not an issue as he has said 'he has enough money to live 50 life times' or some nonsense like that.

Regarding the female. I'd like to see Megan come back in all honesty for the following reasons.

1. She was stiff but not as obviously stiff as Rosie was
2. She is hotter than Rosie
3. Continuity even though as continuity goes, she meant **** all in that department but still offered more in two films than Rosie and her pep talk with Megatron in DOTM

Though given the PR shit storm that followed ROTF and the pre production of DOTM thanks in part to Megan. Megan would likely have to bang old Steve to get back on board the franchise.

Hypershock wrote:When the hell did you ever see a car carrier that looked like G1 ultra magnus? or a handgun the size of a building? Or anything that looked like rodimus?

I'm not saying that there are real car counterparts for every vehicle mode transformer, i'm saying why NOT use the ones that really DO have real car counterparts when they always have. Either way, I really don't care if its not the exact same car... but bee is WAY off in regards to his usual tiny car look... Jazz got downgraded from a porshe to a crappy pontiac solstice (crappy enough compared to the porsche).I would have loved to see Starscream find some jet hangar and scan a F-15. It would have looked so sick to see a clearly inferior jet (to the F-22) surprise everyone by pwning and then transforming to bot mode and then back to jet instead of the OBVIOUS choice of being the best of the best of the current fighter craft. Megatron can mass shift to be a gun, but whatever, I don't mind the tank/jet modes. But I prefer the WFC mode WAAAY more than the mass of metal crap on treads from the movie.

The movie aesthetic really didn't do anything for me other than make each TF look pretty much the same as the other except for the first movie which atleast had some distinction between all of them. The movie toys make better onscreen models since they atleast look more cohesive.

The TF Prime look, as I said, nails it, as its still crazy articulate, but still armoured and closed-forming (I don't know how else to describe it)

Also, im not trying to be agro about any of this, just nerdly back and forths is all i intend.