Shadowman wrote:Dagon wrote:What I was saying at first was that the good/bad sides of this particular metaphor can't just be assigned along faction lines because from medium to medium the lines of good and bad start to blur, with the Megatron Origin story as my example. Depending even on how you interpret the individual TF continuities, regardless of what voice over narration there may be, either side can be viewed as being the good guys. Blanket adherence to a "they are good, the other is bad" philosophy is just stupid.
The idea of the lines between good and evil blurred falls flat when you realize the kinds of things Megatron does or has condoned in order to reach his goals. For instance, attempting to wipe out the human race, or rendering his own homeworld uninhabitable simply because he wanted power, or more power, depending on the continuity. If you're going to use Megatron Origin as an example, in the -tion series, he has a specifically laid-out 6-step plan to ensuring global devastation, which involves as much bloodshed as possible.
Even in Exodus and War for Cybertron, where his goal was actually quite noble (Abolishing the caste system, a goal that most Autobots, including Optimus, agreed with) ended up being distorted over time until it was basically a new goal entirely. (Abolishing free will)
So while the lines between good and evil are normally a point of perspective, that sure as hell doesn't apply to Megatron. To use traditional character alignment, he is, at his nicest, Lawful Evil. (He's even directly quoted on that page!)
Well, going with the -tion series, if that is (there's no reason to think it isn't) the same Megatron as the Megatron of Origins, then his chosen method of the 6 step plan is a pattern of learned behavior. He has learned that violence ultimately is the only thing that will get people to listen to him; even the 'peace loving' Autobots in Origin were only interested in him because he was perpetrating violent actions.
As for Peace through Tyrany, Megatron isn't saying anything that the Autobots aren't. Freedom is the right of all sentient beings, but Prime can justify killing Decepticons by saying they're barbarians that don't deserve something (life, freedom) that they don't themselves value.
Also, the line doesn't blur or fall based on the actions or things he's condoned, any more than saying that attaining freedom by any means necessary is admirable. What we have is two sides who essentially agree to tolerate certain amounts of "evil" or immoral deeds so long as the ultimate result is something beneficial to the group. If Cybertronians agree to be subjugated under Megatron so as to acchieve what they want or believe in, then it's not evil. Remember, 'evil' is a quality that is applied by others, not self applied. Megatron is evil to Prime and his guys.....I doubt Starscream and company sit back and think that Megatron is evil. If they elect to be ruled through fear and pain, that is their choice, as Megatron also never made people follow him, unless we feel the need to talk about Inferno's reprogramming in Energon. And really, let's not.
It's good debating with you Shadowman. You're a lot of fun! Can we keep doing it?