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What's with all the demand for fart jokes to make a show more kids orientated? Since when are fart jokes the bee all end all of children's shows?
Or do we live in the world of South Park now and Terrence and Phillip are the greatest children's entertainers ever?
Why did a silly and fun clip that has nothing to do with the show itself or have any bearing on the brand whatsoever spark a debate on what's appropriate for children and what isn't?
Why do I need to type in so many questions?
All this and more will be revealed once pigs can fly - or will it?

Dead Metal wrote:What's with all the demand for fart jokes to make a show more kids orientated? Since when are fart jokes the bee all end all of children's shows?
Or do we live in the world of South Park now and Terrence and Phillip are the greatest children's entertainers ever?
Why did a silly and fun clip that has nothing to do with the show itself or have any bearing on the brand whatsoever spark a debate on what's appropriate for children and what isn't?
Why do I need to type in so many questions?
All this and more will be revealed once pigs can fly - or will it?

I only know this, if they do start to fly we will all need to invest in highly durable umbrellas

When I was growing up, children's shows had to have humor that was of good taste and not gross out stuff in order to abide by the standards and practices of the networks that aired them. FOX, UPN, WB, PBS, ABC, CBS, the earliest days of Nick/Disney/CN, all had (and some still have) high moral ethics to their BSnP related to their children's programming, requiring that the jokes be clean and inoffensive (Ren & Stimpy, notwithstanding, for some reason). Slapstick comedy, so long as it wasn't gruesome, was also acceptable. But anything suggestive was usually only mild and only for "Parental Bonus".

The fact that Beast Wars got away with some things back like Rhinox's fatal flatulence, when it was censored by various networks for other content, is a little surprising. On the other hand, though it did happen, the visuals did keep most of it off screen, like zooming in on Megatron's reaction to it, or showing an exterior shot of the Earth in space during it, rather than showing Rhinox's butt crack up close. And that kind of humor was also very far and few in that show, with the aforementioned Rhinox moment pretty much being the only major case.

Sabrblade wrote:

Metrosuplex wrote:I think you mean "appraise", not "appraisal".

Indeed.

Actually, you were right and I was wrong. "Appraisal" is correct, even though it sounded wrong to me... like, how sometimes you say a word and it doesn't feel right? Anyway, sorry about that! I thought you'd catch my erroneous correction, though!

Sabrblade wrote:Well, to use another TFWiki quote:

The show won over many viewers through fun, intriguing stories and generally high production values. Strong characterization, top-notch scripting and voice acting, and complex, overarching plot threads are among the reasons cited for the show's enduring popularity. Some of the show's mysteries and machinations remain topics for fan debate over a decade after it aired.

The G1 references also didn't hurt.

"High production values" is an ironic statement, as they don't look too "high" by today's standards: i.e. that point only proves BW as a time-specific piece to be forgotten by spoiled, future generations!
Strong characterization? I agree with that.
Scripting and voice acting = dialogue choice - I mentioned that. It does not really refer to horrific plot and generally bad writing throughout. By that, I mean there really was no over-arching plot tying the entire series - i.e. you'd be hard pressed to summarize the show in a couple of sentences, as the show... really didn't have a central theme, IMO.
Wait, "complex over-arching plot threads"???? WTF??? Hardly. There were some mysteries, but if you don't develop them properly, fan-boy debate is hardly a consolation or proof of good writing. It's like talking about a monster that never showed up - that may intrigue the lesser mammals, but I can tell when the writers ran out of space (and that's poor planning) or ideas (and that's lack of creativity). If you mention a monster, I want to be wowed, not distracted and then have the monster be dropped completely. I guess, specifically, I'm referring to how badly the "other force" was explained and portrayed, culminating in a rather confusing and unnecessary manifestation of Unicron (but not REALLY Unicron, so... who cares?).

Sabrblade wrote:"Energon fart jokes"? Children aren't immune to clean-toned humor.

"Aren't immune" does not = laughter. Those "children" who aren't "immune" tend to be the outliers, whereas most of them enjoy a good fart joke. I mean, if 10 out of 100 kids laugh at an adult joke, it's proving what I'm saying, even though, yes, you are correct that some children do laugh at adult humor (whether or not they understand what they're laughing at - the writer-intended joke, that is - is an entirely different, psychological matter).

Sabrblade wrote:He's no different from other kid-appeal characters like Hot Rod, Cheetor, Side Burn, Wedge, Hot Shot, Ironhide (Energon), and Bumblebee (Animated), who were all "green and eager" teenager-type bots. That is the very mold used to create the common kid-appeal character in TF cartoons.

The only exceptions to this are G1 Bumblebee (who was a good boy and not rambunctious), Wheelie (who was a childbot instead of a teenbot), Movie Bumblebee (who was more of a youthful adult instead of a teen), ROTF Skids and Mudflap (who were just... ugh), and Prime Bumblebee (who, like his Movie counterpart, was also more like a youthful adult instead of a teen)

So you agree? "Blunt" is the king of communication. Believe me, kid-friendly characters will be portrayed as kids (most of the time). I mean, Anakin Skywalker in SW. No, this is more of a yesterday versus today: yesterday, teenagers could be aimed at kids; today, kids are aimed at kids. That's my point. So yes, your points are true... yesterday. I think marketing is just more direct today, and we have "Raf" for the kids, with his friendly, non-threatening, mute servant BB.

Sabrblade wrote:I meant in this particular case it would be distasteful since it would be more humiliating than Optimus to dance a bit.

Some might even LIKE it if Optimus loosened up enough to do a jig or two. I can't tell you how many people complained about this Optimus being so dull and stoic as to be overbearing in his formality. Having him lighten up and relaxing every now and then would do him some good.

A stupid dance does not re-write a bad character, especially when the dance is for a stupid promo. I know where you're coming from, as I hate Grandpa Optimus, too... but this dance does not fix Grandpa Optimus. Instead, it shows him to be a Hollywood whore (that is: all show, no integrity). The dress idea? That's next!

Sabrblade wrote:No one's expecting it to win any awards or anything. It's just a quick 70-second gag not meant to be anything great or special at all.

Mission accomplished - it's embarrassing and the kind of special only your mom talks about.

Sabrblade wrote:When did I say I disagree with the explanation?

So you agree with the quote and think the quote is proof? I have no idea what one liners like this mean!

Sabrblade wrote:I think I need to go back and look at your previous post, since I think I missed something.

Yeah, some things are lost in translation from delayed, board communication. Seibertron should consider a chat room?

Sabrblade wrote:Okay, now that I've read through that more thoroughly, I think there's a bit of a mix up here. First of all, by the time the Prime cartoon rolled around, the DOTM toyline was still releasing new toys and taking up the majority of the toy shelf space, what with it being the main line of the year at that point. And seeing as how the DOTM toyline is still lingering to this day ( ), I get the feeling the delay wasn't purposely instigated by Hasbro, but by the retailers wanting to sell off their existing product before shifting over to the next line, which took quite a while based on how hard it seemed to be for the DOTM toys to finally get off the shelves. There's also the factor of the Prime toyline being the first main line that wasn't a movie line, so the stores might have been hesitant to make the switch over so soon since they see the movie lines as being more successful and likely thought that they could squeeze out more money from the DOTM line before dropping it (their favoritism of the movie lines is also partly the reason why many of the final Reveal the Shield toys got skipped by the main retail stores and were forced into Market Six stores like Ross and TJ Maxx). What makes matters worse is how the Prime First Edition toys barely made it to U.S. stores, with only three Deluxes actually showing up at TRU stores in 2011, which DOTM's presence also seemed to have a hand in. Thankfully, the switch over to the Prime Robots in Disguise in 2012 finally commenced, but one would think that Hasbro would have wanted it to happen sooner and not have had DOTM stick around for as long as it had has.

On a similar note, the Animated toyline also came out long after its cartoon started, hitting the shelves during the Summer of 2008, despite the first and second season having already (almost) run their course. What could have been the cause of this case? Well, the Movie 1 toyline from 2007 was still lingering, and had not one but two subline imprints of toys to sell ("AllSpark Power" and "Premium Series").

Ahhh, excellent. See, that makes more sense to me than the lame Hasbro rep excuses. The movie lines stuck on the shelves like old, hard gum... well, the proof of that is undeniable. We will have giant garbage dumps of these unsold movie toys, right next to Bart dolls and AOL trial discs!

Sabrblade wrote:

Metrosuplex wrote:Anyway, thanks for the replies and know that I'm not trying to troll you specifically.

No prob, Bob. These kinds of intellectual back-and-forths happen here often between various members. It's just how it is and we have to make the most of it.

To be fair, GuyIncognito accused me of trolling on a future news post, so my fear was not unfounded. I appreciate these back and forths, but some loud minorities tend to destroy intelligent discourse with obnoxious accusations like that. So... yeah, I'm pretty irritated with the Seibertron boards, to be honest.

Sabrblade wrote:

Metrosuplex wrote:I'm just raising some concerns I have, and no, I don't REALLY care that much about this Prime clip. I've noticed your presence on this site a lot, and you're one of the more respectable members on here!

Likewise. you've had some pretty good posts, yourself.

[/quote]
THANKS! But I'd be remiss to leave out that I've noticed your particular focus is on correcting and/or providing unsolicited information to other members. Sometimes it's awesome, other times... ehhh, unnecessary. I mean, if I say fishing nets hurt intelligent fish like dolphins, it's not necessary for you to correct me and say, "mammals". Really, the point was on the nets... but the correction derails that, doesn't it?

Sabrblade wrote:When I was growing up, children's shows had to have humor that was of good taste and not gross out stuff in order to abide by the standards and practices of the networks that aired them. FOX, UPN, WB, PBS, ABC, CBS, the earliest days of Nick/Disney/CN, all had (and some still have) high moral ethics to their BSnP related to their children's programming, requiring that the jokes be clean and inoffensive (Ren & Stimpy, notwithstanding, for some reason). Slapstick comedy, so long as it wasn't gruesome, was also acceptable. But anything suggestive was usually only mild and only for "Parental Bonus".

The fact that Beast Wars got away with some things back like Rhinox's fatal flatulence, when it was censored by various networks for other content, is a little surprising. On the other hand, though it did happen, the visuals did keep most of it off screen, like zooming in on Megatron's reaction to it, or showing an exterior shot of the Earth in space during it, rather than showing Rhinox's butt crack up close. And that kind of humor was also very far and few in that show, with the aforementioned Rhinox moment pretty much being the only major case.

Censorship is not really a factor of the era, but rather of the people (arguably from said era). I offer this idea: you can have a more liberal censorship board in any era that might allow more things than a conservative censorship board (or maybe it has more to do with who is running the censorship board/organization - the man on top). Ren & Stimpy, most likely, got away with it because someone liked the show OR it was seen as a big enough money-maker to be allowed through (i.e. you have to grease some palms). That's not to say that there weren't banned episodes - I believe at least one Ren & Stimpy episode was banned from TV. And I remember one of my favorite episodes (when they pretend to be babies in order to have the "easy" life) got removed from the reruns - I don't understand why, either, as it wasn't any more offensive... . Wait, I remember now: it portrayed the family taking a censored, but naked bath together (ma, pa, and babies), so maybe the censors thought it was too graphic???

The Rhinox fart episode was actually entertaining and clever because they didn't make it so gross. I appreciate your crediting the censorship, but I like to think it was one of the better written episodes - maybe we're both right and it was the writers being brilliant in their avoidance of censorship while telling a silly story.

Back to censorship today... I blame the video games. Seriously. Video games take a lot more heat than TV, so I think it's easier to pass crap on TV. Literally! It's all about the money - graphic and crude sells well, and while the politicians and parents set their cross hairs on evil video games, TV gets away with showing bare ass on national broadcast channels.

But hey, how can we NOT think back on the simpler days of yesteryear and not feel some melancholic nostalgia. I guess I would say that the speed of technology is aging us faster than our forefathers.

It's pretty alarming to say things like, "When I was a kid..." at our age demographic. Unless you're really 80. I tip my hat to you, Grandpa!