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Transformers/Cybertronians as deterrence ?? / Spoilers

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Re: Transformers/Cybertronians as deterrence ?? / Spoilers

Postby Alec » Tue Jul 05, 2011 4:43 pm

Motto: "If he dies, he dies."
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Lastjustice wrote:Which explains why both Carly and Sam would be collecting medals from the president.


Wait Carly got a medal too? :???:
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Re: Transformers/Cybertronians as deterrence ?? / Spoilers

Postby Lastjustice » Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:51 pm

Motto: ""Laws only exist when there's someone there to enforce them.""
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Alec wrote:
Lastjustice wrote:Which explains why both Carly and Sam would be collecting medals from the president.


Wait Carly got a medal too? :???:


Yes since her brother died saving the Earth from total destruction.(I'm guessing that gets a soldier the medal of honor.) The family of fallen soldiers gets medals for them in their honor.(so they can place them on their graves or whatever memorial in their memory.) This why she was so worried about Sam rejoining the Decepticon/Autobot war because her brother died, and she said she'd much rather have her brother back instead of the medals.
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Re: Transformers/Cybertronians as deterrence ?? / Spoilers

Postby ScoutSi » Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:57 am

Matthew Marsden played an SAS soldier in ROTF who was part of NEST, and i'm sure he survived


The soldier in the picture, Carly's brother, was NOT Matthew Mardsen, but he was an SAS soldier.
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Re: Transformers/Cybertronians as deterrence ?? / Spoilers

Postby Superion12345 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:40 am

dirk2243 wrote:If you read the Pre-qual to ROTF it covers a lot of the coalition grouped up to form NEST. China, Britian, Russia, Japan and what not are mentioned as being active members. And in the start of ROTF it shows an arm band of one of the soldiers as British.

And the scene with the TF's blasting through and destroying a building it really didn't look like many if any got hurt. Yeah, Dino stopped and transformed but he didn't look to honestly hurt anyone. More of a.....your not going to stop us kind of approach. Even the rockets BB fired didn't look that large or devestating. Did what it needed to kinda thing. I see it as perhaps the U.N. asked them / suspected them of building WMD's and the autobots went in and stopped it.


i read the pre-qual TF Comics and i remember those ROTM scenes in china. But it was stated that the autobots work together with the humans (NEST Organization) to hunt down the Decepticons. IMO, is that Optimus is taking care of his own mess - "their war shifted on earth". But he has to follow or obey "Earthling" rules / regulations. But this is different from DOTM - he is messing around with HUMAN conflicts.

The other thing what you mentioned about the autobots don't wreak havoc or even hurt people. For me it doesn't count. The opposing fraction doesn't care about that. you don't honestly believe the "bad" guys think "oh they didnt hurt us... the only destroyed our devastating weapons... i am fine with..."

And throughout the whole Transformers Films (1-3) the autobots never cause casualties or at least injure them (on screen) :)
like the first movie where optimus was on the highway - he never trample on a car. or in the city the epic battle between him and Megatron - got shot flew around but didnt hurt anyone... like always barely touched a human with his big feet. :)
DOTM scene where bumblebee crashed with the Cybertronian Spacecraft - like always no human harm done. :)

For me this all are just movie magic. :)

Lastjustice wrote:I think with them living on US soil they basically were told to earn their keep. I think they had that in the film mostly to have them out in the field so they could gain the engine part in Russia, since they say they patrol more so to keep an eye on Decepticons than to really put their foot up human government's butts. If they never left the base then it would be hard for them to have found.


yeah, Optimus mentioned "search for signs about our true enemies" or something like that. but as i stated they should refrain their action.

dirk2243 wrote:
Superion12345 wrote:Are you putting China and Russia in the same catagory as Al-Qaida?

Because that I don't believe is the case at all.

ok, better response (i know i replied already).
i was referring to world powers. other world powers could hire the transformers with better conditions.
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Re: Transformers/Cybertronians as deterrence ?? / Spoilers

Postby Optimus Primevil » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:23 am

the best bet would be they'll be part of the UN so no one country can be in control of them...


the bad part is when optimus prime gets a little too much in policing the world that he goes all...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itmNiTwHOsM
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Re: Transformers/Cybertronians as deterrence ?? / Spoilers

Postby Lastjustice » Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:08 am

Motto: ""Laws only exist when there's someone there to enforce them.""
Weapon: Laser-Guided Proton Missile Cannons
ScoutSi wrote:Matthew Marsden played an SAS soldier in ROTF who was part of NEST, and i'm sure he survived


The soldier in the picture, Carly's brother, was NOT Matthew Mardsen, but he was an SAS soldier.


Well we see his picture I believe on the desk. (it's possible it's a different actor.) If they had his credits as *rank* Spencer it would be a slam dunk that it was him. Looked like the same brit who talked during revenge of the fallen, I'm sure someone more obessive than myself will figure out for certain.
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Re: Transformers/Cybertronians as deterrence ?? / Spoilers

Postby ScoutSi » Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:14 am

Lastjustice wrote:
ScoutSi wrote:Matthew Marsden played an SAS soldier in ROTF who was part of NEST, and i'm sure he survived


The soldier in the picture, Carly's brother, was NOT Matthew Mardsen, but he was an SAS soldier.


Well we see his picture I believe on the desk. (it's possible it's a different actor.) If they had his credits as *rank* Spencer it would be a slam dunk that it was him. Looked like the same brit who talked during revenge of the fallen, I'm sure someone more obessive than myself will figure out for certain.


Yeah I guess they may have wriiten it to be him, but the dude in the photo is a different guy, its not Matthew Marsden
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Re: Transformers/Cybertronians as deterrence ?? / Spoilers

Postby dirk2243 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:30 am

Motto: "If you don't believe me, just ask me.....I'll tell you all about it."
Superion12345 wrote:
dirk2243 wrote:If you read the Pre-qual to ROTF it covers a lot of the coalition grouped up to form NEST. China, Britian, Russia, Japan and what not are mentioned as being active members. And in the start of ROTF it shows an arm band of one of the soldiers as British.

And the scene with the TF's blasting through and destroying a building it really didn't look like many if any got hurt. Yeah, Dino stopped and transformed but he didn't look to honestly hurt anyone. More of a.....your not going to stop us kind of approach. Even the rockets BB fired didn't look that large or devestating. Did what it needed to kinda thing. I see it as perhaps the U.N. asked them / suspected them of building WMD's and the autobots went in and stopped it.


i read the pre-qual TF Comics and i remember those ROTM scenes in china. But it was stated that the autobots work together with the humans (NEST Organization) to hunt down the Decepticons. IMO, is that Optimus is taking care of his own mess - "their war shifted on earth". But he has to follow or obey "Earthling" rules / regulations. But this is different from DOTM - he is messing around with HUMAN conflicts.

The other thing what you mentioned about the autobots don't wreak havoc or even hurt people. For me it doesn't count. The opposing fraction doesn't care about that. you don't honestly believe the "bad" guys think "oh they didnt hurt us... the only destroyed our devastating weapons... i am fine with..."

And throughout the whole Transformers Films (1-3) the autobots never cause casualties or at least injure them (on screen) :)
like the first movie where optimus was on the highway - he never trample on a car. or in the city the epic battle between him and Megatron - got shot flew around but didnt hurt anyone... like always barely touched a human with his big feet. :)
DOTM scene where bumblebee crashed with the Cybertronian Spacecraft - like always no human harm done. :)

For me this all are just movie magic. :)

Lastjustice wrote:I think with them living on US soil they basically were told to earn their keep. I think they had that in the film mostly to have them out in the field so they could gain the engine part in Russia, since they say they patrol more so to keep an eye on Decepticons than to really put their foot up human government's butts. If they never left the base then it would be hard for them to have found.


yeah, Optimus mentioned "search for signs about our true enemies" or something like that. but as i stated they should refrain their action.

dirk2243 wrote:
Superion12345 wrote:Are you putting China and Russia in the same catagory as Al-Qaida?

Because that I don't believe is the case at all.

ok, better response (i know i replied already).
i was referring to world powers. other world powers could hire the transformers with better conditions.


Wow, talk about mis-quoting me. I never said autobots don't wreck havoc. Re-read my post. Only mentioned that one scene and only about Dino and BBs Rockets. And when you see DOTM again, look at the damage that bumblebees rockets did compared to lets say a tomahawk missle. here is a good example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sa7ZX58Kk4 at about 20 seconds in. The damage bumblebee did looked a little less. I'm not saying people didn't get hurt. Probably some did. But....comes with working on WMD's.

Do nukes exist....yes
Should they?......I could live without them
Are there countries that should not have them..... absolutely.
Do we (America) need to be the world police?........no
Is someone else going to do it?...........probably not any time soon.
Does there need to be one?................I don't know.
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Re: Transformers/Cybertronians as deterrence ?? / Spoilers

Postby Superion12345 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:25 am

dirk2243 wrote:Wow, talk about mis-quoting me. I never said autobots don't wreck havoc. Re-read my post. Only mentioned that one scene and only about Dino and BBs Rockets. And when you see DOTM again, look at the damage that bumblebees rockets did compared to lets say a tomahawk missle. here is a good example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sa7ZX58Kk4 at about 20 seconds in. The damage bumblebee did looked a little less. I'm not saying people didn't get hurt. Probably some did. But....comes with working on WMD's.

Do nukes exist....yes
Should they?......I could live without them
Are there countries that should not have them..... absolutely.
Do we (America) need to be the world police?........no
Is someone else going to do it?...........probably not any time soon.
Does there need to be one?................I don't know.

oh,... sorry my bad. thanks for pointing out my mistake :)
yea, they did alittle damage. but that's not the point. :)
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Re: Transformers/Cybertronians as deterrence ?? / Spoilers

Postby shamone » Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:02 am

the bots under government influence.

the rest of the world does not sleep easy. we all know how enemies can be created, threats can be escalated and so on

after all in real world would the bots have been sent into iraq to take down saddam because of 9/11. After all 70% of US citizens believed that he was personally responsible at one point due to the lies and misdirection of the government of the time.

Better the bots stay aloof, rather than work with specific armed forces or coalitions
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Re: Transformers/Cybertronians as deterrence ?? / Spoilers

Postby Alec » Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:41 pm

Motto: "If he dies, he dies."
Weapon: Triple Crusher Cannon
Lastjustice wrote:Yes since her brother died saving the Earth from total destruction.(I'm guessing that gets a soldier the medal of honor.) This why she was so worried about Sam rejoining the Decepticon/Autobot war because her brother died, and she said she'd much rather have her brother back instead of the medals.


ok got it sorry that part slipped my mind idk how ive seen the movie DOTM 4 times now lo


shamone wrote:the bots under government influence. the rest of the world does not sleep easy. Better the bots stay aloof, rather than work with specific armed forces or coalitions


I agree with this if someone is "controlling" the bots the world sleeps easy thinking there safe from autobots just "on the loose"
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Re: Transformers/Cybertronians as deterrence ?? / Spoilers

Postby shamone » Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:06 am

Alec wrote:
Lastjustice wrote:Yes since her brother died saving the Earth from total destruction.(I'm guessing that gets a soldier the medal of honor.) This why she was so worried about Sam rejoining the Decepticon/Autobot war because her brother died, and she said she'd much rather have her brother back instead of the medals.


ok got it sorry that part slipped my mind idk how ive seen the movie DOTM 4 times now lo


shamone wrote:the bots under government influence. the rest of the world does not sleep easy. Better the bots stay aloof, rather than work with specific armed forces or coalitions


I agree with this if someone is "controlling" the bots the world sleeps easy thinking there safe from autobots just "on the loose"


I dont know if ypu got my point

im saying bots under govt control means the rest of the world does NOT sleep easy, knowing that they have to do what the controlling forces say, as they have this awesome arsenal in their power.
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Re: Transformers/Cybertronians as deterrence ?? / Spoilers

Postby Alec » Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:47 pm

Motto: "If he dies, he dies."
Weapon: Triple Crusher Cannon
shamone wrote:I dont know if ypu got my point

im saying bots under govt control means the rest of the world does NOT sleep easy, knowing that they have to do what the controlling forces say, as they have this awesome arsenal in their power.


oohh ok i get it my bad yea that makes sense but it means whoever has them under there control there people will sleep easy.
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Re: Transformers/Cybertronians as deterrence ?? / Spoilers

Postby shamone » Thu Jul 07, 2011 1:32 pm

Alec wrote:
shamone wrote:I dont know if ypu got my point

im saying bots under govt control means the rest of the world does NOT sleep easy, knowing that they have to do what the controlling forces say, as they have this awesome arsenal in their power.


oohh ok i get it my bad yea that makes sense but it means whoever has them under there control there people will sleep easy.


oh yes the people will feel secure, unless they are identified as "radicals" or "terrorists"
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Re: Transformers/Cybertronians as deterrence ?? / Spoilers

Postby Alec » Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:24 pm

Motto: "If he dies, he dies."
Weapon: Triple Crusher Cannon
shamone wrote:
Alec wrote:
shamone wrote:I dont know if ypu got my point

im saying bots under govt control means the rest of the world does NOT sleep easy, knowing that they have to do what the controlling forces say, as they have this awesome arsenal in their power.


oohh ok i get it my bad yea that makes sense but it means whoever has them under there control there people will sleep easy.


oh yes the people will feel secure, unless they are identified as "radicals" or "terrorists"


thats what I was going to say if the "radicals" or "terrorists" have the bots to there disposal then they would feel secure and we would be screwed :-s
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Re: Transformers/Cybertronians as deterrence ?? / Spoilers

Postby shamone » Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:04 pm

Alec wrote:
shamone wrote:
Alec wrote:
shamone wrote:I dont know if ypu got my point

im saying bots under govt control means the rest of the world does NOT sleep easy, knowing that they have to do what the controlling forces say, as they have this awesome arsenal in their power.


oohh ok i get it my bad yea that makes sense but it means whoever has them under there control there people will sleep easy.


oh yes the people will feel secure, unless they are identified as "radicals" or "terrorists"


thats what I was going to say if the "radicals" or "terrorists" have the bots to there disposal then they would feel secure and we would be screwed :-s


no im saying that the people undr the govt would be secure unless the govt decided that a certaun group in society were against the state
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Re: Transformers/Cybertronians as deterrence ?? / Spoilers

Postby Alec » Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:39 pm

Motto: "If he dies, he dies."
Weapon: Triple Crusher Cannon
shamone wrote:
Alec wrote:
shamone wrote:
Alec wrote:
shamone wrote:I dont know if ypu got my point

im saying bots under govt control means the rest of the world does NOT sleep easy, knowing that they have to do what the controlling forces say, as they have this awesome arsenal in their power.


oohh ok i get it my bad yea that makes sense but it means whoever has them under there control there people will sleep easy.


oh yes the people will feel secure, unless they are identified as "radicals" or "terrorists"


thats what I was going to say if the "radicals" or "terrorists" have the bots to there disposal then they would feel secure and we would be screwed :-s


no im saying that the people undr the govt would be secure unless the govt decided that a certaun group in society were against the state


oh so just the govt would be safe and society thats not part of the govt is in fear it doesnt seem like that in the movie there just using the bots to take out who the govt deems "bad" idk maybe im just confused or losing my mind haha
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Re: Transformers/Cybertronians as deterrence ?? / Spoilers

Postby shamone » Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:42 pm

Alec wrote:
shamone wrote:
Alec wrote:
shamone wrote:
Alec wrote:
shamone wrote:I dont know if ypu got my point

im saying bots under govt control means the rest of the world does NOT sleep easy, knowing that they have to do what the controlling forces say, as they have this awesome arsenal in their power.


oohh ok i get it my bad yea that makes sense but it means whoever has them under there control there people will sleep easy.


oh yes the people will feel secure, unless they are identified as "radicals" or "terrorists"


thats what I was going to say if the "radicals" or "terrorists" have the bots to there disposal then they would feel secure and we would be screwed :-s


no im saying that the people undr the govt would be secure unless the govt decided that a certaun group in society were against the state


oh so just the govt would be safe and society thats not part of the govt is in fear it doesnt seem like that in the movie there just using the bots to take out who the govt deems "bad" idk maybe im just confused or losing my mind haha


yes thats it

"enemies of the state" would not sleep well, be they domestic or international

propaganda and chicanery can turn anyone into an enemy of the state
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Re: Transformers/Cybertronians as deterrence ?? / Spoilers

Postby Alec » Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:48 pm

Motto: "If he dies, he dies."
Weapon: Triple Crusher Cannon
shamone wrote:propaganda and chicanery can turn anyone into an enemy of the state


True, its a shame :-x
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Re: Transformers/Cybertronians as deterrence ?? / Spoilers

Postby shamone » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:02 pm

Alec wrote:
shamone wrote:propaganda and chicanery can turn anyone into an enemy of the state


True, its a shame :-x


which is why autobots as world police is a no no
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Re: Transformers/Cybertronians as deterrence ?? / Spoilers

Postby Alec » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:35 pm

Motto: "If he dies, he dies."
Weapon: Triple Crusher Cannon
shamone wrote:
Alec wrote:
shamone wrote:propaganda and chicanery can turn anyone into an enemy of the state


True, its a shame :-x


which is why autobots as world police is a no no


Agreed :APPLAUSE:
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Re: Transformers/Cybertronians as deterrence ?? / Spoilers

Postby dirk2243 » Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:03 pm

Motto: "If you don't believe me, just ask me.....I'll tell you all about it."
Alec wrote:
shamone wrote:
Alec wrote:
shamone wrote:propaganda and chicanery can turn anyone into an enemy of the state


True, its a shame :-x


which is why autobots as world police is a no no


Agreed :APPLAUSE:


And hence.....NEST a "Global" organization Although I hear what your saying about "enemy's of the state" and who the government deems "needs to go"
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Re: Transformers/Cybertronians as deterrence ?? / Spoilers

Postby Alec » Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:20 pm

Motto: "If he dies, he dies."
Weapon: Triple Crusher Cannon
dirk2243 wrote:NEST a "Global" organization


i total missed that :BANG_HEAD: haha
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Re: Transformers/Cybertronians as deterrence ?? / Spoilers

Postby Superion12345 » Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:25 am

yea, NEST is a "Global" organization.
but it still make no sense that the autobots take sides and to solve human conflicts.
only that one human faction "UN" or whatever you name it, which are supposedly doing the right thing (not saying they are not), give them the right to "use" the autobots for their advantage. that seems to be wrong.

imo, they should solve their true conflicts the decepticons and cybertron.
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Re: Transformers/Cybertronians as deterrence ?? / Spoilers

Postby shamone » Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:31 am

dirk2243 wrote:
Alec wrote:
shamone wrote:
Alec wrote:
shamone wrote:propaganda and chicanery can turn anyone into an enemy of the state


True, its a shame :-x


which is why autobots as world police is a no no


Agreed :APPLAUSE:


And hence.....NEST a "Global" organization Although I hear what your saying about "enemy's of the state" and who the government deems "needs to go"



the thing with nest being global is

- the bots permanent base is US
- they are led by US military personnel
- the US congress/Senate (not sure which, its not my country) passed a bill demanding the autobots leave earth. was any other nation consulted, it didnt seem that way, America acted unilaterally (how unlike them) in a decision which affected the world


Nests independence is not that clear
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