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Well damn.....I was hoping for Smokescreen to take over but oh well.

Also, DAMN THE NEW PRIME IS MASSIVE. Just to keep scale we'll need Dragon Blaster Prime and Platinum Ultra Magnus.

As a Transformers Prime episode, I thought it was a fantastic episode that continued the general pace from season 2.

However, as a "Beast Hunters" episode, I thought it was another flawed episode that doesn't seem to be lining up with the Beast Hunters marketing and toyline. With each passing episode, it's becoming more and more obvious that the Beast Hunters theme is just a marketing ploy / gimmick for the toyline than it is about a true universal theme for the cartoon. Predaking seemed really forced in this episode and was easily defeated. Shockwave, on the other hand, was far more "badass" that Predaking.

Hopefully the IDW Beast Hunters comics will fill in the gaps to make it seem much more like Beast Hunters to match the toyline than the cartoon is doing.

I think when everything is all said and done, I'll be really happy that the cartoon stuck to its guns and stayed true to the general format from the past couple of years. I think it will feel much more like Transformers Prime Season 3 than Beast Hunters season 1 (yes, I know it's TFP Season 3, but hopefully you know what I mean or am feeling).

Sabrblade wrote:They not only had the gall to do that (twice in one sentence, even), but they used it as a means to spite canon.

Chill out, it was a nice nod to a line that most of us don't find obnoxious.

That Bot wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:They not only had the gall to do that (twice in one sentence, even), but they used it as a means to spite canon.

Chill out, it was a nice nod to a line that most of us don't find obnoxious.

"I couldn't deal with 'Wrecker-style' on Cybertron," says the Wreckers commander.

Believe it or not, that did not go over my head. But there are several possible explanations for it, not the least of which is that it was a damn joke the writers threw in. You sweat the small stuff way too much.

That Bot wrote:Believe it or not, that did not go over my head. But there are several possible explanations for it, not the least of which is that it was a damn joke the writers threw in. You sweat the small stuff way too much.

Has it been established that Ultra Magnus is the leader of the Wreckers in this continuity?

I think most of the supplementary material has heavily implied or outright stated it, but I don't remember it being said in the Prime cartoon directly, which is one of the reasons I don't think it's a big deal.
EDIT: TFWiki says he and his group were named the Wreckers in the Aligned novels:
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Ultra_Magnus_(WFC)#Aligned_novels

That Bot wrote:I think most of the supplementary material has heavily implied or outright stated it, but I don't remember it being said in the Prime cartoon directly, which is one of the reasons I don't think it's a big deal.
EDIT: TFWiki says he and his group were named the Wreckers in the Aligned novels:
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Ultra_Magnus_(WFC)#Aligned_novels

I just read that myself. I'm going to still subscribe to my personal canon that WFC, FOC and the novels and toys are separate from Transformers Prime. It hurts my head to much to try and make it all work. I'd rather have multiple universes or assume that WFC and FOC belong with the original G1 continuity (or some variation of it) than try to force things to go together that shouldn't go together.

Sabrblade wrote:

That Bot wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:They not only had the gall to do that (twice in one sentence, even), but they used it as a means to spite canon.

Chill out, it was a nice nod to a line that most of us don't find obnoxious.

"I couldn't deal with 'Wrecker-style' on Cybertron," says the Wreckers commander.

I understand where ultra magnus is coming from, I had a few people in my command that I thought of in the same way.

So where was smokescreen,and how did he miss the battle if he was with prime the entire time,and managed to infiltrate the warship to get the forge in the first place????

btw, what about Miko's needing the little ladies room dance on hearing Prime was alive?

and if Smoke had taken the matrix, he would have turned red, gotten flame decos and become 'Rodimus' rather than 'smokesreenus' prime?????

It doesn't seem to me like the writers are intending for Magnus to be a Wrecker in this continuity. Despite what is established in the novels, we all know that the WFC/FOC/Exodus background significantly contradicts Prime's backstory. There are many similarities and common elements, but I agree with others that it's best just to consider them unique at this point.

This version of Magnus seems, as others have pointed out, to share much more in common with the IDW characterization. Unless he was the Commander of the Wreckers that was always trying to hold them back from going completely kamikazee, he doesn't really seem to fit the bill this time around. I'm neither for or against that; I liked him being the courageous and brash leader of the Wreckers, but I also like the stuffy protocol-obsessed commander... they are very different but I can live with either.

This episode does make me feel that I was right all along, and that "Beast Hunters" name for season 3 is very much a misnomer... So far we have one beast and no signs/mention of any others by Shockwave, different origins for the preds between show and toyline fiction, and no crazy Mad-Max style reformats of any characters. I really think that Beast Hunters is just as much a gimmick as MechTech was for DOTM. People speculated that we would be seeing MechTech weapons in the movie, but that never happened. Even Megatron's MechTech Fusion Cannon was absent, when in perfectly fit into his vehicle mode!

I would like to see a much more screen acurate version of "roid-ragin'" Optimus Prime in toy form now. The BH stuff isn't terribly far off the mark, but a lot of the little details all over the figures take big liberties with the actual show model. Not even the blue translucent plastics used in the Takara/Tomy version of Voyager BH Prime help that much.

lonrac wrote:So where was smokescreen,and how did he miss the battle if he was with prime the entire time,and managed to infiltrate the warship to get the forge in the first place????

That's...actually an interesting question. Smokescreen theoretically just dragged Optimus to a cave near the former Autobot base in Jasper. Darkmount tower was built in Jasper. We've established that Jasper is not a very big town. Optimus had the benefit of flight when he made it to Darkmount tower, but it still shouldn't have taken Smokescreen THAT long to follow him.

and if Smoke had taken the matrix, he would have turned red, gotten flame decos and become 'Rodimus' rather than 'smokesreenus' prime?????

Probably not, but who's to say for certain?

oh yeah, and loved the little gi joe dig, with Agent Fowler and his 'Skystriker' wing.

all I can say is...


"sir you're looking...robust"

Autobot Strider wrote:It doesn't seem to me like the writers are intending for Magnus to be a Wrecker in this continuity. Despite what is established in the novels, we all know that the WFC/FOC/Exodus background significantly contradicts Prime's backstory.

Maybe a bit at the very beginning, but not "significantly" anymore, what with all that's come about across the different mediums since.

Sabrblade wrote:

Autobot Strider wrote:It doesn't seem to me like the writers are intending for Magnus to be a Wrecker in this continuity. Despite what is established in the novels, we all know that the WFC/FOC/Exodus background significantly contradicts Prime's backstory.

Maybe a bit at the very beginning, but not "significantly" anymore, what with all that's come about across the different mediums since.

I guess it really all depends on your definition of 'significant'. I personally consider them quite a bit different, enough so that I have no qualms considering them separate entities.

I find that the WFC/FOC/Exodus/Exiles stuff works pretty well together, but that universe feels very much like a "reboot" of the G1 backstory to me. Prime comes from a similar place, but the designs are very different and the story simplified to work for a kids show. Some of the differences are easy to write off or ignore under that reason, but when they all stack up I just think it's better to think of them as separate.

Again, that's just my opinion and I have no problem with someone seeing them as one and the same if they choose.

Autobot Strider wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Autobot Strider wrote:It doesn't seem to me like the writers are intending for Magnus to be a Wrecker in this continuity. Despite what is established in the novels, we all know that the WFC/FOC/Exodus background significantly contradicts Prime's backstory.

Maybe a bit at the very beginning, but not "significantly" anymore, what with all that's come about across the different mediums since.

I guess it really all depends on your definition of 'significant'. I personally consider them quite a bit different, enough so that I have no qualms considering them separate entities.

I find that the WFC/FOC/Exodus/Exiles stuff works pretty well together, but that universe feels very much like a "reboot" of the G1 backstory to me. Prime comes from a similar place, but the designs are very different and the story simplified to work for a kids show. Some of the differences are easy to write off or ignore under that reason, but when they all stack up I just think it's better to think of them as separate.

Again, that's just my opinion and I have no problem with someone seeing them as one and the same if they choose.

I'll just say that, though there are obvious differences between the two (which is understandable for eras that take place thousands of years apart), the season 1 finale of Prime did seem to go out of its way to base itself on events specific to the first novel, as well as to use a design exclusive to WFC. I mean, the finale could have chosen to tell any histories that it wanted, yet focused directly on parts from Exodus. So there is at least that much of a connection.

Found this nice theory about Magnus:

The can't deal with Wrecker's style comment also annoyed me at first, as it makes Ultra Magnus sound like he wasn't the unstoppable Wrecker Commander of lore and also references his most tired cliche, but ignoring the cliche, I found what he said really wasn't incompatible with his portrayal in the novels. The Wreckers are known to be disbanded, and Wheeljack at least has no love for the guy. Perhaps Magnus disbanded the Wreckers BECAUSE he disliked the reckless maverick getting themselves killed style that his team had developed. While he may have led a daring commando team that got things done and held battlefields, that doesn't mean that he did it by being as stragegyless and reckless as Wheeljack often is.

Something in future episodes may make it irretrievably clear that the novels Magnus can be discarded, but I don't feel we've reached that point yet.

Also found this other fan theory that may cheer up those bummed about Optimus not dying:

Here's my "what a tweest!" theory.

Optimus Prime didn't quite act like himself. He acted like an exaggerated, hero-worship version of himself. He acted kind of like Smokescreen IMAGINES him to be, much like his new body is over the top awesome like a fanboy would think of Optimus Prime.

Smokescreen didn't save Optimus Prime in time. He managed to activate the Forge of Solus Prime, but it wasn't Optimus it was reacting to. The Matrix has already passed to Smokescreen, and he has to live with the burden of being Prime but not letting anyone know about it, because they're all expecting Optimus Prime.

Well, he gave them Optimus Prime. He may not even have realized what he was doing, but he used the Forge to essentially create Optimus and bring him to life out of his dead body. He's strong, and heroic, and basically everything Smokescreen believes he should be, and nobody is in a position to question that because Optimus did what everyone expected him to: save the day.

I propose we direct this conversation about yesterday's episode back to the main topic, where you also made this same post.

Sabrblade, those are some interesting theories and points about the Smokescreen-Optimus relationship and the outcome of "Rebellion," but personally, I don't think Hasbro has the guts to take a risk and do something so unexpected and innovative with one of their most popular and enduring characters. They tried before in 1986...and paid for it. Plus, taking what Peter Cullen said about season three and Optimus Prime at face value, it sounds like maintaining the status quo with the Autobot leadership is the plan. It may be disappointing that after several episodes of emotional build-up, there was no pay off for Smokescreen, but think of it this way. Maybe the Matrix did intend for Smokescreen to take on the mantle of "Prime", but his personal insecurity and hero worship of Optimus didn't let him rise to his potential. That in itself tells us a lot about Smokescreen as a character. Perhaps he could be Prime one day, but that day has not come yet.

That said, I can see how Optimus' newly reformatted body could be more than a little inspired by Smokescreen's fanboy dreams. The Forge of Solus probably reacts to the personality of the wielder. I'm pretty sure that Optimus himself is still the same old Optimus he always has been.

Theory (from me, this time):

Next episode has either side going to the polar region to retrieve the frozen Predaking, only to find him long gone and running loose on the planet. But, showing enough hints to the audience that he may not be just a "mindless beast", Predaking would demonstrate enough cleverness to keep himself hidden/away from either side, choosing not to go back to the Cons and just wanting to be free to do as he pleases. Thus would begin the titular Beast Hunt as both sides race to find Predaking first, before he finds them first, or worse...

...before Predaking possibly finds a way back to Cybertron and a way to recreate more of his kind.

Sabrblade, I hope we get SOMETHING like that during this season. Maybe it's planned more toward the final arc of the season, or more as part of the series finale movie they claim is in the works. We knew going into Beast Hunters that not all of the new toys and characters would be represented in the show, but it might be nice if ANY of the Predacons besides Predaking made an appearance at this point.