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1.I believe this film wont perform as well as either of the first 2 ($$). This is usually the trend with trilogies

2.Hardcore fans wont forget ROTF disaster. Some like me turned off completely

3.The cycle is complete, on to the next thing.

4.Will there be a part 4? Yes, but i dont care. rather have a reboot 5 years from now with closer designs to g1 (it can be done)

the first movie was a great ride, fun reliving my childood love and got me back into collecting..but i think its over and gonna go back to the "niche" it was from 90-2007. troll if you want. I don't mind. Like to hear from more mature fans. Too bad commercialism wins either way

SamYarbrough77 wrote:1.I believe this film wont perform as well as either of the first 2 ($$). This is usually the trend with trilogies

This is ussualy true. Its rare that a sequel, let alone a 3rd film can surpase the first. But in this case, i believe it will. Better story with new writer, darker tone, yada yada... They seem to have addressed this time around. We'll find out July 1rt.

2.Hardcore fans wont forget ROTF disaster. Some like me turned off completely

"Hardcore fans" (whatever those are) are far and few between. So even if they are turned off completely and wait to catch DOTM on HBO a year from now, it wouldn't be enough to hurt sales numbers or its popularity.

3.The cycle is complete, on to the next thing.

Agreed. I love the movies, but i'd be down for a fresh take as well.

4.Will there be a part 4? Yes, but i dont care. rather have a reboot 5 years from now with closer designs to g1 (it can be done)

See my above post. But designs closer to G1 don't mean succes.

the first movie was a great ride, fun reliving my childood love and got me back into collecting..but i think its over and gonna go back to the "niche" it was from 90-2007. troll if you want. I don't mind. Like to hear from more mature fans. Too bad commercialism wins either way

See the bold text. Without a big screen adaption and advertising to get the kiddies interested, this is almost certain to happen, unless TF- Prime continues for a few more seasons. (Man i hope so). We'll see a couple of years of movie inspired toys, but it won't be the same for in terms of merchandise and "hype" intill another movie or series comes along.

very nice reply well thought out and said.

Star Wars The Phantom Menace and Star Wars The Clone Wars were mediocre. Did Star Wars fanboys and fangirls leave? No. They're all still there, and SW keeps ticking, toys, novels, TV series, video games and the sort.

If the movies brought fans like you and me back into the Transformers fandom, then I really don't see the lack of movies bringing us out. There are so many things that keep this fandom ticking, just like Star Wars.. there's video games, comics, toys, tv shows, and the like. Transformers isn't going to fold even if DOTM doesn't get good reviews, it's still going to make $$$. 3D's in right now, and it's a summer movie. And all that matters is making the $$$$. They'll keep rebooting the cartoon, movie series, comics, toys, whatever. Fans will leave, but there are enough fans to fill in the spots left behind.

SamYarbrough77 wrote:very nice reply well thought out and said.

Thank you.

Blurrz wrote:Star Wars The Phantom Menace and Star Wars The Clone Wars were mediocre. Did Star Wars fanboys and fangirls leave? No. They're all still there, and SW keeps ticking, toys, novels, TV series, video games and the sort.

If the movies brought fans like you and me back into the Transformers fandom, then I really don't see the lack of movies bringing us out. There are so many things that keep this fandom ticking, just like Star Wars.. there's video games, comics, toys, tv shows, and the like. Transformers isn't going to fold even if DOTM doesn't get good reviews, it's still going to make $$$. 3D's in right now, and it's a summer movie. And all that matters is making the $$$$. They'll keep rebooting the cartoon, movie series, comics, toys, whatever. Fans will leave, but there are enough fans to fill in the spots left behind.

Don't get me wrong. I agree that regardless of wether or not the movie does well TF are here to stay. That goes without saying. But i do feel without a movie or some sort of current series, it won't be as popular. So it might slow down in the next couple years, but there will always be something around to keep us entertained.

I agree, but to a certain extent. It won't have the same jump as it will, but it won't be such a sharp decline where the amount of viewers we have is halved or anything like that. I think it's the toys, the comics and the TV shows that keep the Transformers fans coming back.

And not even current toys, comics or TV shows... there's 26 years of stuff that fans coming in can look back on and embrace.

I can understand if we're talking about Lord of the Rings or something like that. But I honestly don't believe that 2012 will look like 2007, our fanbase has extrapolated so far, and it's not going to flatline.

Blurrz wrote:I agree, but to a certain extent. It won't have the same jump as it will, but it won't be such a sharp decline where the amount of viewers we have is halved or anything like that. I think it's the toys, the comics and the TV shows that keep the Transformers fans coming back.

And not even current toys, comics or TV shows... there's 26 years of stuff that fans coming in can look back on and embrace.

I can understand if we're talking about Lord of the Rings or something like that. But I honestly don't believe that 2012 will look like 2007, our fanbase has extrapolated so far, and it's not going to flatline.

All true. Not to meantion the new fans, as well as bringing many like myself back from their "dark ages" that the movieverse have brought into the mix. All fresh meat so to speak that have tones of old material to dig through to keep them entertained.

My only fear (if you can call it that) is the attention span of the younger generation is not what it was 20yrs ago, or even 10 for that matter. Kids today have the attention span of a goat. They thrive to the next big thing and forget about conversations they had ten minutes prior. If there isn't something dangling right in fron of them, they wander off till something else grabs their interest. Without something TF related in main stream media they can look up with their I-phone, they might just look up the next fad. I hope i'm proven wrong in the next couple years.

SamYarbrough77 wrote:2.Hardcore fans wont forget ROTF disaster. Some like me turned off completely

Problem is that the hardcore fans who the film was a disaster for are a vast minority. Non-Transformers fans and more casual Transformers fans liked it enough to put it in the top 10 films of 2009, which is anything but a disaster. Their input is overall more important due to numbers, and they have more.

SamYarbrough77 wrote:1.I believe this film wont perform as well as either of the first 2 ($$). This is usually the trend with trilogies

I disagree. It may not do as well on opening weekend, but in the long run, it'll hit $500 mil.

2.Hardcore fans wont forget ROTF disaster.

I haven't forgotten the crapfest either, but it's just one more reason I want to see DotM, with a new writer and Bay wanting to redeem himself for RotF, this looks good.

Some like me turned off completely

Your loss.

3.The cycle is complete, on to the next thing.

The movie will decide that.

4.Will there be a part 4?

Also depends o DotM.

rather have a reboot 5 years from now with closer designs to g1 (it can be done)

I agree with this, I'd rather see the bots on screen with closer resemblances to G1.

the first movie was a great ride

Absolutely agreed. One of my top 5 movies of all time.

5150 Cruiser wrote: My only fear (if you can call it that) is the attention span of the younger generation is not what it was 20yrs ago, or even 10 for that matter. Kids today have the attention span of a goat. They thrive to the next big thing and forget about conversations they had ten minutes prior. If there isn't something dangling right in fron of them, they wander off till something else grabs their interest. Without something TF related in main stream media they can look up with their I-phone, they might just look up the next fad. I hope i'm proven wrong in the next couple years.

Nothing against you, but have you truly been around kids enough to make that sort of assumptions? Kids aged 5-10 aren't going to be into the 'movie-verse' in a sense that they'll be following in the movies, and giving a damn about the characters, they'll be more attached to the cartoons that are on TV. As long as those are still there, DOTM could be nonsense to them.

Kids aged 11-14 are the ones that might be affected by DOTM, but even then not all teenagers are hooked on the next big thing. They'll stick to what they like. If Transformers is something that they value, then they'll keep with it. If it isn't, then they just simply aren't.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

SamYarbrough77 wrote:1.I believe this film wont perform as well as either of the first 2 ($$). This is usually the trend with trilogies

I disagree. It may not do as well on opening weekend, but in the long run, it'll hit $500 mil.
Naw, 350/400 million

3.The cycle is complete, on to the next thing.

The movie will decide that.
No apples/oranges here..but did we really think spiderman needed rebooted? They r trying to keep spiderman a relevant cash cow bad hollywood

4.Will there be a part 4?

Also depends o DotM.
I think the studio and hasbro will decide that regardless if it underperforms

rather have a reboot 5 years from now with closer designs to g1 (it can be done)

I agree with this, I'd rather see the bots on screen with closer resemblances to G1.
yes totally in unison there. Hate the spaghetti bots from Spaghettitron

the first movie was a great ride

Absolutely agreed. One of my top 5 movies of all time.

One of mine too. Peter Cullen As Optimus!

Capt.Failure wrote:

SamYarbrough77 wrote:2.Hardcore fans wont forget ROTF disaster. Some like me turned off completely

Problem is that the hardcore fans who the film was a disaster for are a vast minority. Non-Transformers fans and more casual Transformers fans liked it enough to put it in the top 10 films of 2009, which is anything but a disaster. Their input is overall more important due to numbers, and they have more.

I thought ROTF was put as the number 1 movie of 2009. Avatar doesn't count because they didn't stop showing it until 2010. It doesn't count!!!

SamYarbrough77 wrote:
2.Hardcore fans wont forget ROTF disaster. Some like me turned off completely

I've been a fan of Transformers for over 11 years, and have been collecting since! I lost my best friend since birth because I was "too childish for him"; but I didn't let that stop me. I didn't take sh!t from him, people, society, the managers at toys R us, or my parents and I'm still collecting Transformers. Since I was 3 years old, I've dedicated my life to the sole existence of transformers itself, and I loved, not liked, LOVED ROTF. The one and only thing I ever gave a damn about, in the history of my life. If that doesn't make me a hardcore fan, nothing does.

1. This movie will make a pantload of money. Its Bay, Speilberg, and Transformers. All of those names have their own private following. It's also going to be the biggest movie coming out at that time (at least that I can think of). I don't think the opening sales will be as high as the first two, but if it's a better movie than ROTF, the overall sales will be higher.

2. Hardcore fans won't forget ROTF, but I don't think that will matter. I enjoyed ROTF. It had it's issues, but I still like it. Am I hoping DOTM is a better movie? Sure. Which is why I am going to see it.

3. Yes, the trilogy has ended. If it makes a ton of money, they will make more movies. They won't be exactly the same but there will be more Transformer movies.

4. There will probably be some kind of reboot, similar to what they are doing with Spider-man.

Uhm hello there shall be another movie..it's about Bay's last movie not the franchise..

http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/785702/ ... l_bay.html

KiaraPrime wrote:Uhm hello there shall be another movie..it's about Bay's last movie not the franchise..

http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/785702/ ... l_bay.html

Pretty much this. If Hasbro stopped making these films I'd question their business sense.

4.Will there be a part 4? Yes, but I dont care. rather have a reboot 5 years from now with closer designs to g1 (it can be done)

I am soooo sick of hearing this. How many different series has there been since G1 now? multiple times. How many times have they gone out of their way to exactly copy G1 design? Zero. Reason 1, it gives them an excuse make all new toys if they make new characters and designs.

Reason two, G1 was a product of it's time. Just like the new designs are product of today. The elements of what people saw as futuristic are different than back then. Hence why Spike and Daniel wore their Jetson style jumpsuits. Things were blocky and square back then because that's what just made people think robot back then.(and would look like Space jam or roger rabit in terms of believeablity in a real life setting. Sometimes stuff just doesn't translate well from cartoons and comics to real life.) it was something that only existed in that pocket of time, and it came and went with the rest of the 80s.

Just like nearly every super hero updates their costume every couple years, transformers are going have new designs. Hasbro approved the designs as they were the ones making the toys. You can't completely blame Michael Bay for that as he wasn't the artist rendering them. Heck the man might never drawn a sketch in his life. Like Hasbro he might just have picked the vehicles and the artists came up with several designs of what a bot would turn into and went from there.

So a Reboot likely will have little to do with the bots ever looking like G1. Which honestly I hope just to spite all you Geewunners there never is. Why? Because the franchise owes you nothing. Just because you're a long time fan doesn't mean the series should cater to you. We had a movie that did that and it bombed back in 86.(and it sucked. I was there when all kids cried.)

This pure retro look look works for stuff with low buy cost like 2D DLC games for next gen systems. With these films they're looking hit the largest market share they can. To make a niche film catering to G1 would likely end up with another Scott Pilgrim, a cult classic that bombs at the box office.

So no, there's no looking back in life.Let that silly dream die already because it's not happening...Ever..thankfully. Even War for cybertron, a reboot simliar to G1 still looked vastly different from it. What will take to make you people realize sometimes you just can't go home?

Lastjustice wrote:

4.Will there be a part 4? Yes, but I dont care. rather have a reboot 5 years from now with closer designs to g1 (it can be done)

I am soooo sick of hearing this. How many different series has there been since G1 now? multiple times. How many times have they gone out of their way to exactly copy G1 design? Zero. Reason 1, it gives them an excuse make all new toys if they make new characters and designs.

Reason two, G1 was a product of it's time. Just like the new designs are product of today. The elements of what people saw as futuristic are different than back then. Hence why Spike and Daniel wore their Jetson style jumpsuits. Things were blocky and square back then because that's what just made people think robot back then.(and would look like Space jam or roger rabit in terms of believeablity in a real life setting. Sometimes stuff just doesn't translate well from cartoons and comics to real life.) it was something that only existed in that pocket of time, and it came and went with the rest of the 80s.

Just like nearly every super hero updates their costume every couple years, transformers are going have new designs. Hasbro approved the designs as they were the ones making the toys. You can't completely blame Michael Bay for that as he wasn't the artist rendering them. Heck the man might never drawn a sketch in his life. Like Hasbro he might just have picked the vehicles and the artists came up with several designs of what a bot would turn into and went from there.

So a Reboot likely will have little to do with the bots ever looking like G1. Which honestly I hope just to spite all you Geewunners there never is. Why? Because the franchise owes you nothing. Just because you're a long time fan doesn't mean the series should cater to you. We had a movie that did that and it bombed back in 86.(and it sucked. I was there when all kids cried.)

This pure retro look look works for stuff with low buy cost like 2D DLC games for next gen systems. With these films they're looking hit the largest market share they can. To make a niche film catering to G1 would likely end up with another Scott Pilgrim, a cult classic that bombs at the box office.

So no, there's no looking back in life.Let that silly dream die already because it's not happening...Ever..thankfully. Even War for cybertron, a reboot simliar to G1 still looked vastly different from it. What will take to make you people realize sometimes you just can't go home?

This! You my friened, get a beverage of your choice on me, should we ever meet in real life. Well said.

This! You my friened, get a beverage of your choice on me, should we ever meet in real life. Well said.

Thanks man, just something that's been bugging me that I've kept seeing. I mean why is there' some grading scale to who's a fan or not? Hardcore fan, or true fan are just labels...there's either fans or you're not in the end. Whether you're a fan of the old stuff, the new movies or any of the series in between..(except Kiss players..you fans of that are dead to me..) You're one of us.

I love the new movies from the stand point my niece and nephew have their own new Transformers experience to grow up with besides just reliving mine. I don't have tell them why Optimus Prime is one of the greatest fictional characters of all time...they just know. They barely have seen much of the other series outside the movies, but they'll be fans for life. It's something that spans generations( I know people over 70 who like the new movies as well as lil kids and everyone between.) and I hope to share with my kids when I someday become a dad. Giant Robots beating heck out of each other is a universal language haha. To our inner 5 year olds anyways.

I saw comics basically cater to the older fans and it nearly collapsed during the 90s. I see no reason Transformers should follow those footsteps. I'm grateful for new series like animated and Prime so kids have a chance experience a new series ..or even the unicron trilogy or robots in disguise. I'm sure some kids started with those or even Beast wars. The show franchise continues to evolve and come up with new ideas each time it's done. Every single series has contributed atleast 1 awesome idea that sticks with the franchise from then on or get's homaged later. Sure there's a few odd choices along the way, but there's going be a new season soon enough if you don't like the current batch. Those off elements usually get ironed out in the next draft.Ultimately most of the series get the core elements of what makes transformers what transformers is right each time.


So to go and state we need keep the series in stasis of G1 and never move beyond that...no freaking way. It's bad for everyone and things just get stale. It's not that I don't like G1 either. I love it,grew up with it(being 31) and I can always watch the original series on youtube if I felt I really wanted watch it. (which I periodically do, especially around time the movies come out reference something i want to look at again to compare.)

All that said the movies have made the franchise more popular than it's ever been. Even if you hated every minute of them you can't deny that it's been more postive than negative for Transformers. It proved to world once again our favorite heroes are awesome, and still relevant after 25+ years. One of the few 80s franchises that is still kicking as they've never stopped making toys. So many projects that likely will see light of day because of this..such as War for cybertron. Who knows if we'd gotten Animated or prime with the films.

The Topic creator said the renaissance is soon to be over...I disagree I think it's only just begun.

Lastjustice wrote:

This! You my friened, get a beverage of your choice on me, should we ever meet in real life. Well said.

Thanks man, just something that's been bugging me that I've kept seeing. I mean why is there' some grading scale to who's a fan or not? Hardcore fan, or true fan are just labels...there's either fans or you're not in the end. Whether you're a fan of the old stuff, the new movies or any of the series in between..(except Kiss players..you fans of that are dead to me..) You're one of us.

I love the new movies from the stand point my niece and nephew have their own new Transformers experience to grow up with besides just reliving mine. I don't have tell them why Optimus Prime is one of the greatest fictional characters of all time...they just know. They barely have seen much of the other series outside the movies, but they'll be fans for life. It's something that spans generations( I know people over 70 who like the new movies as well as lil kids and everyone between.) and I hope to share with my kids when I someday become a dad. Giant Robots beating heck out of each other is a universal language haha. To our inner 5 year olds anyways.

I saw comics basically cater to the older fans and it nearly collapsed during the 90s. I see no reason Transformers should follow those footsteps. I'm grateful for new series like animated and Prime so kids have a chance experience a new series ..or even the unicron trilogy or robots in disguise. I'm sure some kids started with those or even Beast wars. The show franchise continues to evolve and come up with new ideas each time it's done. Every single series has contributed atleast 1 awesome idea that sticks with the franchise from then on or get's homaged later. Sure there's a few odd choices along the way, but there's going be a new season soon enough if you don't like the current batch. Those off elements usually get ironed out in the next draft.Ultimately most of the series get the core elements of what makes transformers what transformers is right each time.


So to go and state we need keep the series in stasis of G1 and never move beyond that...no freaking way. It's bad for everyone and things just get stale. It's not that I don't like G1 either. I love it,grew up with it(being 31) and I can always watch the original series on youtube if I felt I really wanted watch it. (which I periodically do, especially around time the movies come out reference something i want to look at again to compare.)

All that said the movies have made the franchise more popular than it's ever been. Even if you hated every minute of them you can't deny that it's been more postive than negative for Transformers. It proved to world once again our favorite heroes are awesome, and still relevant after 25+ years. One of the few 80s franchises that is still kicking as they've never stopped making toys. So many projects that likely will see light of day because of this..such as War for cybertron. Who knows if we'd gotten Animated or prime with the films.

The Topic creator said the renaissance is soon to be over...I disagree I think it's only just begun.

Well said Lastjustice.

Too many people forget that Transformers was on it's way to the grave when Beast Wars came out and not only shook up the status quo (and pissed off alot of hardcore "true fans") but also reinvigorated popularity of the series. Then it began to fade again after Beast Machines, barely chugging along with the Dreamwave comics and the Unicron Trilogy until lo and behold...Michael Bay comes along and makes the film series. We've had two new Transformers TV shows debut during that time and God knows how many new toys and comics. And these revitalizations always happen when the status quo is rocked instead of craddled.

Did the 2007 film introduce radical new designs, alt modes, origins, and put a greater emphasis on humans who can actually fight back? Yes. Did Revenge of the Fallen put new twists on old and obscure Transformers lore while making the human allies not only just as present, but important to the story? Yes. But to say that either of these, even RotF hurt the series and alienated the fans is an outright lie. For every anonymous poster on the internet who says the movies ruined Transformers and they hated the movies, I know three that think the opposite.

Change is good. And it's time to realize that Transformers has and will continue to change, and only for the better. Of course only if we keep the KISS Players writers in a cage somewhere in Japan.

Lastjustice wrote: Thanks man, just something that's been bugging me that I've kept seeing. I mean why is there' some grading scale to who's a fan or not? Hardcore fan, or true fan are just labels...there's either fans or you're not in the end. Whether you're a fan of the old stuff, the new movies or any of the series in between..(except Kiss players..you fans of that are dead to me..) You're one of us.

No problem. Its just good to see a someone else that wants to continue to see fresh new ideas and not carbon copy's of G1. Not only that, but after looking back, the movie verse isn't the only TF universe that have taken drastic changes in character designs. So i don't see why so many are so hell bent on Bay for ruining there childhood

Lastjustice wrote: All that said the movies have made the franchise more popular than it's ever been. Even if you hated every minute of them you can't deny that it's been more postive than negative for Transformers. It proved to world once again our favorite heroes are awesome, and still relevant after 25+ years. One of the few 80s franchises that is still kicking as they've never stopped making toys. So many projects that likely will see light of day because of this..such as War for cybertron.

Lastjustice wrote:Who knows if we'd gotten Animated or prime with the films.

Animated..... Maybe. even without the movies I think hasbro would have attempted something to keep the next gen. of kids interested. BUt Prime, no way as it has heavy referances from the movies.

I never really had an issue with desgins of robots, well autobots anyway, the decepticons were a bit too generic and hard to tell apart in rotf

G 1 designs really wouldnt work, too blocky and basic. Cartoons dont translate well in direct port to live action. Now thats not saying i wouldnt have loved to see bumblebee as a vw beetle mind you.

Lastjustice wrote:All that said the movies have made the franchise more popular than it's ever been. Even if you hated every minute of them you can't deny that it's been more postive than negative for Transformers.

Actually, I can deny that. I am quite capable of doing so. What's positive and what's negative is a matter opinion. Therefore, it's entirely possible that what you see as a positive, I see as the worst possible thing that could happen.

The fact that Transformers has become so damned popular because of these movies, in my opinion, is actually a terrible thing, if for no other reason than, in my experience, popularity and quality are nearly always antithetical to each other. These movies only seem to prove that point as the stories for both of them were horrible, the character development for the robots was non-existent and was hardly noticeable in the humans, the robots were so over done it was impossible to tell who was who in a fight scene, and it was impossible to care about any of the characters. There were just special-effects movies with loud noises, and no redeeming qualities.

And all of that fails to mention in racism and antisemitism, which more than anything else leaves me more embarrassed to be a fan of Transformers now than I could ever have imagined being.

shamone wrote:G 1 designs really wouldnt work, too blocky and basic. Cartoons dont translate well in direct port to live action. Now thats not saying i wouldnt have loved to see bumblebee as a vw beetle mind you.

Somehow, I find that these kinds of moronic attacks on the G1-style are completely missing the point. I haven't seen anyone specify that they should be blocky to the point of being unable to realistically move. I suspect they'd like to see something that doesn't make the robots impossible to tell apart, something that looks more like an armored fighting machine than a skeleton wearing cutlery.

These fans probably want something more like what was done with Iron Man when they brought his armor into a live-action setting. It's recognizable while still, I assume, being altered to suit the format. If another attempt was made at a live-action Gundam movie, I'd expect them to stick to a design that respects the origins of the franchise, and not completely discard the elements of the classic mobile suit design that have remained constant though every design variation I've seen.

Maybe it's just me, but I think a successful middle ground is possible.

ZGMF-X88S wrote:And all of that fails to mention in racism and antisemitism

We've gone on at length about the supposed "racism," but antisemitism? You do know Michael Bay is Jewish, right? It was Megan Fox calling Bay Hitler that got her booted off the film.

Capt.Failure wrote:

ZGMF-X88S wrote:And all of that fails to mention in racism and antisemitism

We've gone on at length about the supposed "racism," but antisemitism? You do know Michael Bay is Jewish, right? It was Megan Fox calling Bay Hitler that got her booted off the film.

Leaving Israel off the map has raised accusations of antisemitism. I can certainly understand that.