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decepta-scott wrote:Oh he was quite dead.If you blink you will miss it but there a scene right before hot rad, arcee, springer, kup and daniel slide the launcher into place to fight devestator where arcee is dragging the fallen bots out of the way. Among them were wind charger and wheel jack. They were both very dead.

Sorry but I repeat, theres no SOLID evidence that he was dead.

Laying on the ground with damage to his body is not solid evidence he died.Unlike every confirmed death in the film, Wheeljack and Windcharger did not fade to gray.

They still retained their colors.

So, if you think you can provide Solid, undeniable evidence from the narrative that they died, please do.I've been waiting over 26 years for someone to do that.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

decepta-scott wrote:Oh he was quite dead.If you blink you will miss it but there a scene right before hot rad, arcee, springer, kup and daniel slide the launcher into place to fight devestator where arcee is dragging the fallen bots out of the way. Among them were wind charger and wheel jack. They were both very dead.

Sorry but I repeat, theres no SOLID evidence that he was dead.

Laying on the ground with damage to his body is not solid evidence he died.Unlike every confirmed death in the film, Wheeljack and Windcharger did not fade to gray.

They still retained their colors.

So, if you think you can provide Solid, undeniable evidence from the narrative that they died, please do.I've been waiting over 26 years for someone to do that.

Although the script doesn't mention Wheeljack and Windcharger by name, it does refer to them collectively as 'twisted remains of Autobot defenders' or something. I'm no expert but 'twisted remains' sounds pretty terminal to me.

Whilst there is no 100% solid proof, there is certainly very strong circumstantial evidence to suggest they did in fact meet their creators.

MightyMagnus78 wrote:Although the script doesn't mention Wheeljack and Windcharger by name, it does refer to them collectively as 'twisted remains of Autobot defenders' or something. I'm no expert but 'twisted remains' sounds pretty terminal to me.

There are a lot of difference from script to finished film.

Not to mention that there are a number of different scripts.

Plain and simple, the script is not canon and irrelevant to the point at hand.

Whilst there is no 100% solid proof, there is certainly very strong circumstantial evidence to suggest they did in fact meet their creators.

And the funny thing is that the very same "strong circumstantial evidence" you say suggest they died also supports the idea they may have survived equally.

Think about it, how many times have we seen characters get shot, dsamaged, and get knocked out lying on a floor?

Heck, we have seen characters get taken apart, blown apart, and it didnt equate to a TF death.

But this film went out of its way to show us defintive death.

Starting with Prowls death,each character to be seen dead was faded to gray.

Prowel faded to gray death also confirmed in dialog in season 3
Ratchet faded to gray death also confirmed in dialog in season 3
Optimus Prime faded to gray death also confirmed in dialog in season 3
Starscream faded to gray death also confirmed in dialog in season 3

One could even argue that the 2 seekers and Insceticons that were upgraded by Unicron faded to gray just before the upgrade.The 2 seekers deaths were also confirmed in dialog in season 3

Ironhide was not seen after the point of his death but his death was confirmed in dialog in season 3.

Huffers death was never seen but it was confirmed in dialog in season 3

Brawn did not fade to gray...his fate is open to debate
Wheeljack did not fade to gray...his fate is open to debate
Windcharger did not fade to gray...his fate is open to debate

And we saw Windcharger in Call of the Primitives.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:So, if you think you can provide Solid, undeniable evidence from the narrative that they died, please do.I've been waiting over 26 years for someone to do that.

Well, it's not from the film itself, but Chapter 11 of the Story of Binaltech, titled "Project Bodyshop", has this to say about Wheeljack's movie fate.

NOTE: While the events of this story take place in an alternate timeline that differes from the G1 cartoon post-season 2, the Ravage in this story has his memories of the cartoon timeline and shows Wheeljack images of the G1 movie as they happened in the normal timeline.

Sabrblade wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:So, if you think you can provide Solid, undeniable evidence from the narrative that they died, please do.I've been waiting over 26 years for someone to do that.

Well, it's not from the film itself, but Chapter 11 of the Story of Binaltech, titled "Project Bodyshop", has this to say about Wheeljack's movie fate.

NOTE: While the events of this story take place in an alternate timeline that differes from the G1 cartoon post-season 2, the Ravage in this story has his memories of the cartoon timeline and shows Wheeljack images of the G1 movie as they happened in the normal timeline.

I believe we discussed this type opf issue before with the Beast Wars/Bayformers cross over.

Thats Japanese continuity and has no connection to Hasbros continuity.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Thats Japanese continuity and has no connection to Hasbros continuity.

Well, it at least proves that Wheeljack did die in the G1 movie in the Japanese dub.

...even though he was shown to be alive and well in Transformers: Victory with zero in-fiction explanation.

I look at that and can't help but think that G1 continuity is a bit of a convoluted mess.

Sabrblade wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Thats Japanese continuity and has no connection to Hasbros continuity.

Well, it at least proves that Wheeljack did die in the G1 movie in the Japanese dub.

Sorry if this sounds rude but ......it offers nothing to the topic being disused.There are a number of differences between the Japanese G1 and Hasbro's G1.

...even though he was shown to be alive and well in Transformers: Victory with zero in-fiction explanation.

Well you got to keep in mind they made Victory before they got the film.

And the BT story came out about 20 years after.

Tekka wrote:I look at that and can't help but think that G1 continuity is a bit of a convoluted mess.

You should see the Marvel UK comics with its whole Time Wars fiasco. Try figuring out that one without getting a headache.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:...even though he was shown to be alive and well in Transformers: Victory with zero in-fiction explanation.

Well you got to keep in mind they made Victory before they got the film.

And the BT story came out about 20 years after.

That's why I said "in-fiction" reason. There's not even any post-80's retcon for that (or any the lives of others who supposed died in the movie yet show up in The Headmasters cartoon).

Sabrblade wrote:

Tekka wrote:I look at that and can't help but think that G1 continuity is a bit of a convoluted mess.

You should see the Marvel UK comics with its whole Time Wars fiasco. Try figuring out that one without getting a headache.

This is why I hate time travel stories.

Sabrblade wrote:That's why I said "in-fiction" reason. There's not even any post-80's retcon for that (or any the lives of others who supposed died in the movie yet show up in The Headmasters cartoon).

I think they planned to use the BT tech to explain it all , but Takara dropped the ball on the BT fiction.

Tekka wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Tekka wrote:I look at that and can't help but think that G1 continuity is a bit of a convoluted mess.

You should see the Marvel UK comics with its whole Time Wars fiasco. Try figuring out that one without getting a headache.

This is why I hate time travel stories.

IIRC, I don't think there's any real time traveling in the Story of Binaltech. There's time tampering, yes, but I don't rememeber any time traveling.

It's basically a "what if this all happened instead of that" story, taking the G1 cartoon timeline and branching off into a different story, like how one can either go watch The Rebirth or The Headmasters (and its sequels) after G1 season 3.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:That's why I said "in-fiction" reason. There's not even any post-80's retcon for that (or any the lives of others who supposed died in the movie yet show up in The Headmasters cartoon).

I think they planned to use the BT tech to explain it all , but Takara dropped the ball on the BT fiction.

But the story was completed, given a proper ending in the four part conclusion story "Unfinished Business" that came with the BT toys of "Bluestreak", Argent Meister, Arcee, and Convoy.

Sabrblade wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:That's why I said "in-fiction" reason. There's not even any post-80's retcon for that (or any the lives of others who supposed died in the movie yet show up in The Headmasters cartoon).

I think they planned to use the BT tech to explain it all , but Takara dropped the ball on the BT fiction.

But the story was completed, given a proper ending in the four part conclusion story "Unfinished Business" that came with the BT toys of "Bluestreak", Argent Meister, Arcee, and Convoy.

hence the term "dropped the ball"

The way to story ended it seems they rushed to finish.It just seems to me that they planned to do more but just didnt an instead chose to give it a ending...prematurely.

In terms of Wheeljack, Windcharger and Brawn, i agree with sto_vo_kor_2000

I must have watched that film a hundred times since it was released, and I remember when i first saw it in 1986 (yes, i'm old) I was suprised at the deaths, especially Prowl and Optimus as they were my two favourites, but i've always believed that Brawn was shot in the shoulder and survived. No doubt he'd have been in a bad way, as the shuttle most likely crashed when the Decepticions bailed out over Autobot City.

Wheeljack and Windcharger is open for debate. They do still keep their colours so its possible they they are just heavily damaged and offline. Its certainly possible given that Ultra Magnus was blown apart and survived.

In the storyboard, one character who definitely dies is Red Alert. He arrives on the trailer of Ultra Magnus with Sideswipe and a few others, and is shot by Decepticons

Despite its flaws and continuity errors, it remains one ofg my favourite movies of all time.

First time I saw the movie, I had no idea who most of the characters were and didn't care much when they died. After watching the G1 cartoon, though, Ironhide's death got to me.

WHY IRONHIDE!?

Treetop Maximus wrote:First time I saw the movie, I had no idea who most of the characters were and didn't care much when they died. After watching the G1 cartoon, though, Ironhide's death got to me.

WHY IRONHIDE!?

"Such heroic nonsense"

Ironhide died for a good cause... That scene defines Megatron's twisted soul.

Treetop Maximus wrote:First time I saw the movie, I had no idea who most of the characters were and didn't care much when they died. After watching the G1 cartoon, though, Ironhide's death got to me.

WHY IRONHIDE!?

to get him off the shelf and get newer toys there.

But that's so boring... This calls for another great Megatron quote! "Use your imagination!"

Tekka wrote:But that's so boring... This calls for another great Megatron quote! "Use your imagination!"

"First, Prime... then Ultra Magnus... and now, you. It's a pity you
Autobots die so easily, or I might have a sense of satisfaction now!" -Galvatron

Favorite quote from the whole movie.

It's definitely one of the best, if not the best line too.

Tekka wrote:But that's so boring... This calls for another great Megatron quote! "Use your imagination!"

Yeah, but it's still the truth.

i still fast forward a couple of parts in the beginning of the movie- still to hard to watch. it's better to think that the most of the regular guys are fighting some where else. and the movie is following the new guys. i still like the look of this movie way more than the 'live action' crap looking transformers

It's a shame that some of the best animation was used for the extermination of some of my favorite bots (don't know why, just like Prowl). I'm personally not a huge fan of the movie, half because of the carnage at the beginning, and half due to the bots that replace them.