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Transformers: The Animated Movie to Air on the Hub on 02/18/12

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Re: Transformers: The Animated Movie to Air on the Hub on 02/18/12

Postby DarkEnergon » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:17 pm

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Delicon wrote:
DarkEnergon wrote:Yes! I've never seen the movie, and have even tried buying a dvd on ebay that turned out to be, Korean and half-functional. sigh.

I've been catching bits and pieces of the third season, and am fairly confused.


I'm not sure how old you were in 1986 or if you were even around, but for those of us who were big Transformers fans and didn't get to see the movie right away, it was horrible. I knew Transformers left and right even then but had no freakin' clue as to what was supposed to be going on.


Yeah, I was 12 - perfect age - but didn't get to see the movie. I think that must be where my comic collection ended, and my toy collection too, and i moved on to GI Joe.
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Re: Transformers: The Animated Movie to Air on the Hub on 02/18/12

Postby Mat001 » Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:04 pm

While I was fortunate to see the film before season three, going by "Five Faces Of Darkness" if you hadn't seen the film, it wasn't that hard to figure out what was going on. The first nine episodes fill in the gaps pretty quickly.
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Re: Transformers: The Animated Movie to Air on the Hub on 02/18/12

Postby Delicon » Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:16 pm

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Mat001 wrote:While I was fortunate to see the film before season three, going by "Five Faces Of Darkness" if you hadn't seen the film, it wasn't that hard to figure out what was going on. The first nine episodes fill in the gaps pretty quickly.


Ummmm...no???

I don't think they ever fully mention in FFoD that Optimus is dead (he does speak within the Matrix), who Rodimus Prime is, how Megatron became Galvatron, where all of the other missing Autobots are, what the Matrix is and so many other things.

It's sorta like...here's this futuristic place with all these characters and things you don't know.
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Re: Transformers: The Animated Movie to Air on the Hub on 02/18/12

Postby Mat001 » Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:13 pm

Delicon wrote:Ummmm...no???

I don't think they ever fully mention in FFoD that Optimus is dead (he does speak within the Matrix), who Rodimus Prime is, how Megatron became Galvatron, where all of the other missing Autobots are, what the Matrix is and so many other things.

It's sorta like...here's this futuristic place with all these characters and things you don't know


As I said, the first nine episodes catch you up.

1. In FFOD part two, Arcee mentions that Rodimus was talking like Optimus did before he died. When they think Rodimus is dead, Grimlock points out that the Matrix didn't come out like it did with Optimus. Ergo, they established the chain of command. Later in "Dark Awakening", they confirmed that he was dead. That was episode eight.

2. In part one, they established that Rodimus Prime was now the leader. In DA, they established that the Matrix changes Hot Rod into Rodimus Prime and in FFOD and "Return Of Optimus Prime", that it contained the wisdom of all the past leaders.

3. Granted, they don't explain the change in Megatron to Galvatron. But it is established that he was Megatron once upon a time and now Galvatron.

4. The missing Autobots were established as being dead in "Dark Awakening" when they visit the memorial and Daniel lists off the names of several dead Autobots. By the end of the season, it's very clear who was alive and who was dead.

5. They also tossed in all these other Autobots and Decepticons that you didn't know about in season two and said, deal with it. But you found out about them as the season went on. The movie was no better in that regard. Same with "G.I. Joe".
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Re: Transformers: The Animated Movie to Air on the Hub on 02/18/12

Postby Delicon » Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:50 pm

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You make fairly good points when viewing as an adult, but not for the average 5-9 year old. Even when they establish some of these things, they really make no mention as to how/why they happened which left the average elementary school kid more than a little befuddled. You also have to take into account the way things were before that, with everything being set present time besides a few obvious flashback episodes and absolutely NO deaths. We saw Optimus Prime chopped up and made into an alligator and then brought back, so as a kid it was pretty hard to imagine how he could have actually died, even if I knew from the brief bits and pieces that they mentioned that he had.

I think the only time they ever address Galvatron's origin is with one sentence from Motormaster that was easily missed. That's almost criminal when you consider how important that event was.

As for knowing who was alive and who was dead, heck the people making the show didn't even seem to know, as evidenced by characters that briefly pop up that shouldn't have. Beyond that, a few characters are mentioned as being dead in Dark Awakening, but one in Huffer wasn't even shown dead in the movie and most of the rest just simply "vanish" and are forgotten.

Like I said, they could have done a much better job of transitioning season 2 into season 3, especially for those kids who didn't see the movie. I think a lot of why the cartoon faded quickly after is because of the way they alienated their young base.
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Re: Transformers: The Animated Movie to Air on the Hub on 02/18/12

Postby Mat001 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:10 pm

Delicon wrote:You make fairly good points when viewing as an adult, but not for the average 5-9 year old. Even when they establish some of these things, they really make no mention as to how/why they happened which left the average elementary school kid more than a little befuddled.


The details of Prime's death didn't need to be spelled out. Your average kid would be smart enough to know that Optimus and Megatron fought to the death, with one dying and the other being rebuilt. The specifics didn't matter.

You also have to take into account the way things were before that, with everything being set present time besides a few obvious flashback episodes and absolutely NO deaths. We saw Optimus Prime chopped up and made into an alligator and then brought back, so as a kid it was pretty hard to imagine how he could have actually died, even if I knew from the brief bits and pieces that they mentioned that he had.


It was obvious that death was possible as evidenced in "Divide & Conquer", "The Key To Vector Sigma" and "War Dawn". If it wasn't, then we wouldn't hear Megatron and Starscream talk about it so much during the first two seasons.

I think the only time they ever address Galvatron's origin is with one sentence from Motormaster that was easily missed. That's almost criminal when you consider how important that event was.


No, it was also from Astrotrain who said that things were different under Megatron and Cyclonus corrects him with Galvatron's name and then Astrotrain said that they're the same guy. Plus, Optimus knows who Galvatron is.

As for knowing who was alive and who was dead, heck the people making the show didn't even seem to know, as evidenced by characters that briefly pop up that shouldn't have.


Animation errors which were the fault of Akom. Hell, I didn't even notice a lot of those errors the first time around and only now years later. Of course, the earlier episodes of season three can be cut some slack as the origins of the new Decepticons was changed midway through production. Hence the errors in the film regarding Thundercracker, Skywarp and the Insecticons, along with the latter in "Five Faces Of Darkness".

Beyond that, a few characters are mentioned as being dead in Dark Awakening, but one in Huffer wasn't even shown dead in the movie and most of the rest just simply "vanish" and are forgotten.


Just because it wasn't shown in the movie doesn't mean it didn't happen off screen.

Like I said, they could have done a much better job of transitioning season 2 into season 3, especially for those kids who didn't see the movie. I think a lot of why the cartoon faded quickly after is because of the way they alienated their young base.


Or that they grew up and didn't it was worth watching anymore. They could've done a better job at introducing the rest of the 85 cast, but they didn't. They just said, "here, deal with it".
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Re: Transformers: The Animated Movie to Air on the Hub on 02/18/12

Postby Delicon » Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:37 pm

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Mat001 wrote:The details of Prime's death didn't need to be spelled out. Your average kid would be smart enough to know that Optimus and Megatron fought to the death, with one dying and the other being rebuilt. The specifics didn't matter.


You can argue that after a few episodes, especially "Dark Awakening" that it was clear that Optimus was dead and you can even argue that it would be logical that he might have fought to the death with Megatron, but as far as Megatron's fate, that was far from clear, especially if they missed that ONE LINE.

Mat001 wrote:No, it was also from Astrotrain who said that things were different under Megatron and Cyclonus corrects him with Galvatron's name and then Astrotrain said that they're the same guy. Plus, Optimus knows who Galvatron is.


Okay, so it was Astrotrain but it was still ONE LINE. Pretty easy to miss and never for the rest of the G1 run was it ever mentioned that Megatron had become Galvatron. That's a HUGE oversight in storyline development. You also get no insight on Cyclonus and Scourge and the Sweeps, either.

Mat001 wrote:It was obvious that death was possible as evidenced in "Divide & Conquer", "The Key To Vector Sigma" and "War Dawn". If it wasn't, then we wouldn't hear Megatron and Starscream talk about it so much during the first two seasons.


Who dies exactly in those episodes? Alpha Trion kinda sorta maybe, but not in a "blown to bits" way. That's a very weak argument, really.
Mat001 wrote:Animation errors which were the fault of Akom. Hell, I didn't even notice a lot of those errors the first time around and only now years later. Of course, the earlier episodes of season three can be cut some slack as the origins of the new Decepticons was changed midway through production. Hence the errors in the film regarding Thundercracker, Skywarp and the Insecticons, along with the latter in "Five Faces Of Darkness".


You missed all of that but were somehow able to fill in all the other gaps without seeing the movie? Weird.

Mat001 wrote:Just because it wasn't shown in the movie doesn't mean it didn't happen off screen.


Sure, that's fine but it doesn't make it any less confusing. Heck, here we are in our 30's and we still don't know the entire list of characters who died because of the vents in the movie. The truth was, all they cared about was bringing in new characters and really had a had time keeping track of it themselves.

Mat001 wrote:Or that they grew up and didn't it was worth watching anymore. They could've done a better job at introducing the rest of the 85 cast, but they didn't. They just said, "here, deal with it".


The big difference is that they gradually blended the 85 characters in with the 84, they didn't just take the existing universe and rip it to shreds.
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