Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

Welcome to the latest episode of the Seibertron.com Twincast / Podcast! This episode features your host ScottyP, Megatronus, RodimusConvoy13, xRotorstormx, TigerTrack24, and Counterpunch - listen in as we discuss the latest news, toys, and more.

Episode #139 “No Deviations“ is available directly and in our RSS Feed, and should appear on iTunes and Stitcher Radio within 24 to 48 hours of when you see this news post.

The Twincast is celebrating the 20th anniversary of Beast Wars by rewatching the seminal series that rescued the brand. This time, we tackle episodes 6, 7, and 8, in which Terrorsaur goes on a power trip, and Tigatron and Blackarachnia join the cast.



After firmly deciding NOT to discuss the recent Transformers: Deviations comic (ScottyP's thoughts on the mini-series can be found here), we tackle some great listener questions.

On implementing Combiner Wars' and Titan Returns' thematic gimmicks on characters who traditionally never had them, MemphisR56 asks: "Do you feel that this trend is a welcome addition to the transformers toyline (e.g. if it means we'll see some character that otherwise would've been avoided) or that the trend is problematic for any reasons?"



StuartMaximus asks: "Anyone know what'll come after Titan Wars? so far we've had or getting Combiner Wars & Headmasters? so if this is some sort of Prime Trilogy or something? then what's the last part gonna focus on? Action Masters? Pretenders? or maybe something else?"

We end this segment with Amelie, who asks: "At which point do you feel that over-complexity in order to achieve maximum animation model accuracy hurts a toy? Or (reversely) - are noticeable sacrifices to the robot and alt-mode acceptable if the transformation is good?"



Next, the Twincast covers TF51 and the continued Earth-centric storyline (Tigertracks' excellent Seibertron.com review can be found here). How about them humans, eh? Once you hear this topic start, you'll have to jump to the one hour and twenty three minute mark to avoid spoilers for this issue.



We turn to an what is likely an evolving topic for many collectors: holy grails. It's been quite some time since we checked in with the Twincast to learn what, exactly, dances between the realistic and unlikely, so we get down to business.



We polish off the episode with bragging rights - with a twist! Each Twincaster must declare their own individual "wild card" theme. Some themes are straightforward, others are out of the box. I guess you'll have to listen in to learn about our most recent acquisitions.





Don't forget, the show only gets better if you tell us how. Drop us a review on iTunes and be sure to tell us what you love, what you hate, and what you want to hear!

Not on the show to give your take? Probably not, so don't forget to keep the discussion going on the Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums by simply replying to this post!

Got a question for the Twincast? We take all of them, we just don't take them all seriously! Leave a question in the Ask the Twincast thread and, if it makes the cut, it may get read and answered on the show.

megatronus wrote:

Google her at your own risk.

Did someone get Misha finally??????????

Got to this one much faster than the last one, as I finish off some work.

Good episode all round, and good to see all the listener questions brought in!

As for TF #51, I have a lot of thoughts that I still haven't fully expressed, but overall agree with the comments on exploration of themes vs advancement of plot. Though I do also think that the exploration is going in very interesting directions this time, contrarily to Tigertrack.

I'll keep pondering, and post in the actual thread eventually, before #52 hits!


The caption to the image, by the way, is a perfect encapsulation of the new OP.
OutBarbered.


(I support the Getaway plan for BotCon. I am continuing my Alpha Bravo crusade, personally.)

Good Podcast I agreed with the MP-09 point. Hearing about the weaknesses in the knees really put me off buying him in the end as I 'play' around with my figures a lot. I was excited for the figure, but upon hearing about the knees, I didn't bite on him. MP-28 however is definitely going to be mine in a few weeks.

Simplicity is a big reason I still like G1. Optimus Prime is a brick, yes, but the transformation is smooth, almost elegantly simple - it also has that nice "auto transform" feature about how the thighs separate.

I'd love to see something along the lines of Micromasters again, too. Same with Pretenders. I can envision a Masterforce like scenario in the comics with Titan-Masters - robots disguised as humans, but turning into the heads of their original forms.

Universe Galvatron FTW, MFs!

On the topic of complexity...I used to really love super complex, puzzle-like transformations. But as my collection has grown to several hundreds of figures and not messing around with any given figure all that often anymore...I can't seem to remember the damn transformations anymore...so I've kind of gone away from the opinion of the harder the better. But I still don't want G1 like simplicity...that's probably a lot of why I grew tired of the figures when I hit my teenage years once upon a time. I think the MP-10 and on figures mostly hit the sweet spot where they're complex, but fairly intuitive. You can figure them out without the instructions and not have major concerns you're going to break something.

Figures that suck transformation-wise, though...BadCube figures. Fiddly, overly complex, and where the schit basically explodes held together by a few hinges, and then twist it around and try to put it back together into whatever mode. They look quite nice, but they're poopy toys.

And the official MP line, the figures are a ton of fun conversion-wise since Kobayashi took over again, but most of them look a bit off. I gotta say, I much preferred the balance Hasui brought.

Combiner Wars deluxe figures are boring. They all largely have the same transformation...and it's not it's not a particularly fun one, IMO. I'd rather transform Universe Galvatron all day...

Someone, please sell me your GI Misha.

Is a figure really a 'grail' if it takes you all of 5 minutes on eBay and a handful of cash to acquire?





Maybe my grail can be Henkei Galvatron...

Kibble wrote:Is a figure really a 'grail' if it takes you all of 5 minutes on eBay and a handful of cash to acquire?





Maybe my grail can be Henkei Galvatron...

By all means... Henkei Galvatron can be your grail, though the recent Hasbro Asia/United 3-pack version is way, way nicer.

The grail is less about exclusivity (although that definitely plays a huge part) and more about likelihood of eventual ownership, I think. I am very, very unlikely to own an original G1 Overlord, even though it's within my means and I do want it.

Kibble wrote:Is a figure really a 'grail' if it takes you all of 5 minutes on eBay and a handful of cash to acquire?

Maybe my grail can be Henkei Galvatron...

I have both eBay and a hand full of cash.

Please direct me to Misha-kun.

Counterpunch wrote:

Kibble wrote:Is a figure really a 'grail' if it takes you all of 5 minutes on eBay and a handful of cash to acquire?

Maybe my grail can be Henkei Galvatron...

I have both eBay and a hand full of cash.

Please direct me to Misha-kun.

I was posting as I was listening so I hadn't yet gotten to the grail talk to comment on it in my previous post...so that wasn't actually directed at you, if it came off looking that way.

megatronus wrote:The grail is less about exclusivity (although that definitely plays a huge part) and more about likelihood of eventual ownership, I think. I am very, very unlikely to own an original G1 Overlord, even though it's within my means and I do want it.

That it's a so-called 'grail' should mean it's extremely difficult, if not impossible, to obtain...far more so than it being expensive. It could be ridiculously cheap or even free if you were beyond lucky enough to happen upon it. Otherwise it's just a luxury item you want but can't afford or choose not to foolishly purchase. As Scotty said, people need to raise their grail standards. But to be fair, I'm probably more interested in the luxury items, myself, than most things I think would qualify as grails. In owning and keeping, I'd rather have, say, ToyWorld Devastator than green Unicron or Lucky Draw movie Prime or whatever...if we're ignoring the fact I could sell the 'grail' items and get a few sets of the TW Devs with the profits.

Kibble wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:

Kibble wrote:Is a figure really a 'grail' if it takes you all of 5 minutes on eBay and a handful of cash to acquire?

Maybe my grail can be Henkei Galvatron...

I have both eBay and a hand full of cash.

Please direct me to Misha-kun.

I was posting as I was listening so I hadn't yet gotten to the grail talk to comment on it in my previous post...so that wasn't actually directed at you, if it came off looking that way.

No, I'm just trying to get my doll hustle on.

I realize my grail was kinda lame, but I can't really think of any ultra rare, not easy to find figures that I really want. I mean, I could up the ante and say a MISB case fresh Overlord that's never seen the light of day.

Lately I've been looking far more forward than backward when it comes to Transformers. I'm really excited for Titans Return. There's not much that's already come out that I REALLY want.

Besides Sky Lynx. That guy just won't show up anywhere around me.

Simple question. At the start f the Podcast, you hear an Optimus Prime voice. Is taht Peter Cullen or Jon Bailey?

william-james88 wrote:Simple question. At the start f the Podcast, you hear an Optimus Prime voice. Is taht Peter Cullen or Jon Bailey?

It's Jon.

RodimusConvoy13 wrote:

william-james88 wrote:Simple question. At the start f the Podcast, you hear an Optimus Prime voice. Is taht Peter Cullen or Jon Bailey?

It's Jon.

Man he's good.

Kibble wrote:Is a figure really a 'grail' if it takes you all of 5 minutes on eBay and a handful of cash to acquire?





Maybe my grail can be Henkei Galvatron...

I'm not sure why a grail cannot be something that is limited to you buy money or lack of presence in a local market.

Just because you can sometimes go on eBay and see particular toys and then if you have a lot of money make the purchase, does not mean it is not worthy to be a grail.

Grail-ness is how each individual chooses to see it. Rarity is usually a factor. Most people's grails are never seen on eBay in the condition that they want. Just because there is a market like eBay now where you can make purchases of toys that you would have NEVER seen at a local convention (and still never see it a local convention), or at a local comic, or even import store, doesn't make it less of a grail.

I prefer to seek after something that is attainable, but rare. Even now if I saw my grail of Lucky Draw Car Robots Black Fire Convoy, I would never be able to afford it, unless I found it for the absolute right price. Which if it is was on eBay would mean that I would miss it, because somebody else would have snatched it up.

What is your grail Kibble?

The term grail comes from holy grail...doesn't matter how much money you have, good luck finding it.

I'm not sure I have a TF grail. I pretty much assume something like that would cost ridiculous money, and I just don't care about any of that crap that bad. If I were winning something, Lucky Draw MP-01 or G1 prototype Unicorn would be kinda cool, but I'd mostly just want whatever was worth the most and sell it to get stuff I'm more interested in...like ToyWorld MP Dev...then customized to be more toon accurate. I just don't think that is a grail though. Expensive...and even fairly rare customized, but give me about a grand and it's not difficult to get your hands on.

Kibble wrote:The term grail comes from holy grail...doesn't matter how much money you have, good luck finding it.
If I were winning something, Lucky Draw MP-01 or G1 prototype Unicorn would be kinda cool, but I'd mostly just want whatever was worth the most and sell it to get stuff I'm more interested in...like ToyWorld MP Dev...then customized to be more toon accurate.

The whole point of a grail is that it is coveted by the person searching for it, like King Arthur searching for the Holy Grail, which you should know since you seem to know where the term comes from.

If you see a grail as something you can sell just to get things you want more, then that defeats the purpose and is against everything a grail means.

Kinda why I said I don't really have a 'grail'...

You know...it's not really a debatable issue.

The whole "grail" thing is meant to refer to an object or acquisition that is so far out of reach for whatever reason, that God himself would need to intervene on your behalf.

Price really should be a small factor, because even with a $2000 item, you could always just charge it or sell blood for a few months.

Grail should really be a category beyond simple desires or long term wants.

Counterpunch wrote:You know...it's not really a debatable issue.

The whole "grail" thing is meant to refer to an object or acquisition that is so far out of reach for whatever reason, that God himself would need to intervene on your behalf.

Price really should be a small factor, because even with a $2000 item, you could always just charge it or sell blood for a few months.

Grail should really be a category beyond simple desires or long term wants.

Then I have no grails.

Count me amongst the grail-less.

Counterpunch wrote:You know...it's not really a debatable issue.

The whole "grail" thing is meant to refer to an object or acquisition that is so far out of reach for whatever reason, that God himself would need to intervene on your behalf.

Price really should be a small factor, because even with a $2000 item, you could always just charge it or sell blood for a few months.

Grail should really be a category beyond simple desires or long term wants.

But thats a totality no? By saying that a Grail must be unatainable then there is no such thing as a Grail in the Transformers Hobby when looking at what was released. Thanks to e-bay you can wait for that desired product to show up and pay whatever price is there if price is not an issue. So everyone ends up with no grails and we get right back to where we started. A better queston then would instead be "what do you wish Hasbro did but will never do" like a revisionist G1 alpha Bravo But that is indeed a different question.

A grail is either something specific to each collector or it is the definition you postulated that renders there to be no such answer.

william-james88 wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:You know...it's not really a debatable issue.

The whole "grail" thing is meant to refer to an object or acquisition that is so far out of reach for whatever reason, that God himself would need to intervene on your behalf.

Price really should be a small factor, because even with a $2000 item, you could always just charge it or sell blood for a few months.

Grail should really be a category beyond simple desires or long term wants.

But thats a totality no? By saying that a Grail must be unatainable then there is no such thing as a Grail in the Transformers Hobby when looking at what was released. Thanks to e-bay you can wait for that desired product to show up and pay whatever price is there if price is not an issue. So everyone ends up with no grails and we get right back to where we started. A better queston then would instead be "what do you wish Hasbro did but will never do" like a revisionist G1 alpha Bravo But that is indeed a different question.

A grail is either something specific to each collector or it is the definition you postulated that renders there to be no such answer.

As I said, it should be all but unattainable.

Without speaking for the others on the show, I think my example of the G.I. Misha figure was a perfect example.

Counterpunch wrote:As I said, it should be all but unattainable.

Without speaking for the others on the show, I think my example of the G.I. Misha figure was a perfect example.

But you stated on the podcast that you did find her on e-bay once right? If money wasnt an issue, which is what you claimed earlier, then you would have just bought her when you saw her. And thus she wouldnt qualify as a grail, right? Or am I missing something. Sorry for being so hard on this but I just dont understand the point about this discussion if almost everything brought up will be met with the scrutiny of it adhering to someone's personal definition. How do you judge what is nearly unatainable? Cant ones criteria be different from anothers'?

PS: You can edit all you want, I will never forget

william-james88 wrote:But you stated on the podcast that you did find her on e-bay once right? If money wasnt an issue, which is what you claimed earlier, then you would have just bought her when you saw her. And thus she wouldnt qualify as a grail, right? Or am I missing something. Sorry for being so hard on this but I just dont understand the point about this discussion if almost everything brought up will be met with the scrutiny of it adhering to someone's personal definition. How do you judge what is nearly unatainable? Cant ones criteria be different from anothers'?

PS: You can edit all you want, I will never forget

I don't think it has to literally be impossible to find to be a 'grail'...but as I've said from the start, it should be very difficult to find (shy of amazing luck) and take more than 5 minutes on ebay to acquire should you have a wad of cash in your hand (or lets say you have to wait a week for the right listing to come up...whatevs, still not hard.)

And I guess I fail to qualify simply expensive figures as grails as I kinda assume anyone that's into collecting TFs and able to afford the internet to spend regular time surfing Seibs.com isn't SOOO financially challenged that they couldn't save up for their supposed wet dream figure after a few months or a year or whatever if they REALLY wanted it that bad. And I don't think there even are (m)any examples of figures that are well over a grand that are easy to find.

Also, nothing wrong with having your most prized item or centerpiece of your collection be something that's not a 'grail'...I just happen to think that term is used way too loosely.