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Tyrese Gibson predicts the return of M. Bay and Shia LaBeouf for TF4

Discuss anything and everything related to the Transformers Live Action Films franchise, which are directed by Michael Bay. Transformers 3 is scheduled to be released on July 1st, 2011. Check out our Live Action Film section here.

Re: Tyrese Gibson predicts the return of M. Bay and Shia LaBeouf for TF4

Postby 5150 Cruiser » Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:18 pm

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IAmThePeej wrote: The amount a movie makes in a box office does NOT dictate if a movie is good or not. Let's use another movie as an example, Avatar. This movie (Avatar) made over $2 BILLION worldwide, yet its nothing more than a horrible rip off of Pocahontas. Its a movie that assumes the entire audience is either too young to understand what's going on or is mentally handicapped by beating the plot over your head, telling you what is going to happen and 5 minutes later, what was described happened. The movie was even mocked during a recent award show (I forget exactly which one at the moment though).


I agree that Avatar is nothing speacial. To me it was nothing more than politcal propoganda about how goverment is ruining the enviorment and pushing around "the little guy". But while i didn't enjoy it for my own reasons, it doesn'y make it a bad movie. Just like your reasons for not liking it also doesn't make it a bad movie. Mearly a movie you didn't like. Those are your and my opinions. Nothing more, nothing less.

IAmThePeej wrote: So by saying "deal with it", you mean, we have no choice but to watch what has been churned out whether its good or not? Not true, we have the ultimate voice at the end of this all, or rather our money does. If we don't like it, we can simply not pay for tickets to see the movie, not pay for the toys, or stationary or any other form of merchandise based on it.


I believe by saying "deal with it", he means you need to deal with the fact that these movies, and any made after are made for the masses and not for TF "fans". And your right, we do have the ultimate say, rather our money does. We could not have seen the movie, nor paid for merchandise. Bu you know what? We did. We did see the movie (many multiple times, as well as bought the murchandise. And with over $1,000,000,000 made world wide, i'd say the masses aprove.

IAmThePeej wrote:I really don't remember anyone saying anything about how weak Prime was, to be honest, it was a good idea, making him like that to make the odds seem to be in the Decepticons' favour. Also, just because people want a darker story, doesn't mean the characters have to all be mass murderers. That is just alienating its core audience, which as we all know, are children between the ages of 8 and 15. It is possible to have a dark vision, but not have death every scene.


I remember it. And yes, a darker story generally means the characters or going to have a bit of a darker side to go with it. i timid Optimus Prime would have been completely out of place in the story. This is not a cartoon. Lazers aren't bouncing off megatron and no ones retreating at the end. Earth was about to be enslaved. Sorry, but there's no time for one of G1 Optimus "lesons". It was time to kick some ass. And Optimus took names!

IAmThePeej wrote: There is one major difference between Uwe Boll and Michael Bay. Uwe knows he's making horrible movies, he purposely does so. He has admitted he makes them bad. He is able to make a better movie, but doesn't.


NO, no, no, no , no...No. Uwe Boll may know he's making bad movies, but that's only because he's not capable of doing any better. I don't believe for one second, regardless of wether or not he says, makes bad movies on purpose. If he's truely capable of makeing a better movie then he would. Plain and simple. No one wants to purposely have the reputation in the industry that he does.

IAmThePeej wrote: Bay, on the other hand, seriously thinks his movies are as good as say, Francis Ford Coppola's. HE BELIEVES that people WANT to see what he makes, no matter what it is. HE thinks he's Hollywood's only good director. He is an arrogant prick who has no ability and should be blacklisted from any and all movies.


That's because people do want to see his movies. He's revenue track proves that. And they want to see his movies because he gives the audience what they want to see. Proof? Again, in the revenue. Yuo can deny this all you want and call him every name in the book, but bottom line is when Bay's attached to the film, it generaly is recieved very well at the box office.
And speaking of name calling, have you meet Bay? Have you had a one on one chat with him? What evidence do you have that he believes he hollywoods only good director?

IAmThePeej wrote:I feel that if Boll wanted to really apply himself, he could actually make a very decent film. Remember, I said decent, not great, spectacular or amazing. But if he put more than $1,000,000 behind a movie he makes, the results could make him known for films that aren't fully horrid.


Concidering the amount of experiance he has, there's no room for "decent" movie making. either your good, or your not. And Uwe Boll has demonstrated he's the latter.
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Shadowman wrote:I will put forth the theory that it was the internet itself trying to punch him in the face.
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Re: Tyrese Gibson predicts the return of M. Bay and Shia LaBeouf for TF4

Postby Treetop Maximus » Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:38 pm

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If you're referring to what's in my sig...

>Implying I didn't steal that from Google Images

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Re: Tyrese Gibson predicts the return of M. Bay and Shia LaBeouf for TF4

Postby Noideaforaname » Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:36 pm

budmaloney wrote:Regarding the fan made film, why not?
What about TF Mosaic? Have you seen the quality of stories/characters/art delivered by Mosaic. Some of them are amazing. They're probably better than some IDW stories.


Some are good, a lot are not.
Not to mention movies aren't anything like one-page comics, much less general audience movies and devoted fan comics.
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Re: Tyrese Gibson predicts the return of M. Bay and Shia LaBeouf for TF4

Postby SlyTF1 » Fri Sep 23, 2011 5:26 pm

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Noideaforaname wrote:I think a lot of these "atrocities" people keep harping about have been done before, actually. For instance Devastator's pun-ish balls were preceded by G1 Megatron and Shockwave's trigger crotches, Legion's phallic tongue, and Thunderblast's nipples (or are we just going to forgive that one because it's "sexy" :roll: ).


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Re: Tyrese Gibson predicts the return of M. Bay and Shia LaBeouf for TF4

Postby budmaloney » Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:00 am

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Autobot032 wrote:
budmaloney wrote:
SlyTF1 wrote:
budmaloney wrote:
SlyTF1 wrote:
budmaloney wrote:Bull crap! Bay sucks! No more TF Movies! No story! Characters haz no charikterizatin! More BS!


Image


You misquoted me, now all the following posters think I actually write like that. But thank you for summarizing my points for me, Bay does suck, there is no story here, and truly characterization is absent. You nailed it.


He does not suck. Who gives a damn? I don't care. Deal with it.



We've been dealing with Bay since 2007! He had three movies, enough already. 2011 should end it,they shouldn't make a TF4 with Bay.

And are you sure he doesn't suck?
Robot Testicles, weak Decepticons, lunatic Optimus Prime, mute Bumblebee, Pig Ironhide, fragile Devastator, Shockwave's eye being shot out, Cybertron Destroyed. Megan Fox. dogs humping each other...


Ohhhh.... You're one of those types.

The type that forgets that there are writers to blame for all of that, as well. Or...do you simply choose to forget? That makes all the difference, you know?

Seriously, Bay's not the only one to blame. I've said it a million times, I don't have the patience or the energy to continue doing so.

I will end my post with this:

It is not ALL Bay's fault. The writers are quite awful and hold most of the blame.


Well I'm holding Bay accountable, just as people hold Bush accountable. It's superficial, I admit. It is the writers fault.
Give me names and we'll ask Laserbeak to take them out.

TulioDude wrote:More movies could be cool.
Personally i would prefer more than 2 or 3 years before a sequel.

LiKwid wrote:In Tyrese Gibson's mind if there is not another Transformers movie, He'll be out of hollywood, plain and simple. If Transformers hadn't happened, he would have probably started doing straight to dvd movies..HE needs Tf4 to happen..

Thats kinda harsh.I think he has a solid career.

budmaloney wrote:There was no need for Sentinel Prime to fight Optimus, he is the autobot leader. What does this teach people and kids, just kill every one and you will be ok? If you disagree with your boss/leader, KILL THEM. If he's the Einstein of your race, maybe you should listen to the mofo. Einstein came up with the theory of relativity and many more. Do we throw that down the toilet, if he says, no I think we should do this.

This isnt what happened.Have you paid attention to the film?

budmaloney wrote:We've been played. The entire franchise has been secreted on.
We said the designs are too radical, but we grew to like them. The colors are inaccurate, so we accepted them. The characters are way of their original
Bay is only good for patriotic American films
Dotm was simply appalling, it was a mess.
Enough damage has been done, let us repair ourselves and move on this era of shame.
Plz tf fans, wake up, demand higher quality products, otherwise Tf will always be a mindless franchise designed simply to sell their toys.

This is your opinion,not everyone,.


If I recall correctly, wasn't Sentinel termed the Einstein of their race. Maybe my wording wasn't clear. I meant to say , there was no need for a conflict. Sentinel is the leader right, and if he chose to work with the Decepticons, the Autobots should follow. If they disagree with him, they shouldn't duke it out.
Killing Ironhide is not a big deal, if he was they would have given him a funeral or something. I mean he's the Einstein of their race, he must know something they don't know right? Shouldn't the Autobots have paused and thought about it

* note: this is all prior to this whole neutrinos are faster than light, even if that is true, Einstien is still a badass of science*

SlyTF1 wrote:
budmaloney wrote:
SlyTF1 wrote:
budmaloney wrote:
SlyTF1 wrote:
budmaloney wrote:Bull crap! Bay sucks! No more TF Movies! No story! Characters haz no charikterizatin! More BS!


Image


You misquoted me, now all the following posters think I actually write like that. But thank you for summarizing my points for me, Bay does suck, there is no story here, and truly characterization is absent. You nailed it.


He does not suck. Who gives a damn? I don't care. Deal with it.



We've been dealing with Bay since 2007! He had three movies, enough already. 2011 should end it,they shouldn't make a TF4 with Bay.

And are you sure he doesn't suck?
Robot Testicles, weak Decepticons, lunatic Optimus Prime, mute Bumblebee, Pig Ironhide, fragile Devastator, Shockwave's eye being shot out, Cybertron Destroyed. Megan Fox. dogs humping each other...


Don't care about Devastator's balls, the Decepticons whern't that weak, I LOVED lunatic Optimus; my favorite scene in movie history is Optimus coming in in DOTM and killing all those Decepticons, they had to find a way to make Bumblebee appealing to the kids, Ironhide was more of a dog/bear, he was 7 freaking vehicles taped onto each other, of course he's going to be fragile, They have to find some way to take the bad guys out; I have no idea how shooting Shockwave's eye out would piss anyone off, they never even said that Cybertron got destroyed. Maybe it just got teleported back to where it came from just like the rest of the Decepticons who where transported to earth. You may have a point there. It was 2 seconds long, deal with it.


I like Shockwave's eyes....fine piece of machinery
Your responses are logical.

Noideaforaname wrote:I think a lot of these "atrocities" people keep harping about have been done before, actually. For instance Devastator's pun-ish balls were preceded by G1 Megatron and Shockwave's trigger crotches, Legion's phallic tongue, and Thunderblast's nipples (or are we just going to forgive that one because it's "sexy" :roll: ).


So I looked up the nipples, and I can't believe they're true. I'd have to go with them being sexy.


Ok forum, And...it pains me to say to this, I may have misread people's opinions and extrapolated my opinions onto others. It seems people do really like DOTM and feel strongly about it.
Maybe I shouldn't be as concerned as I am about the franchise or where it is going.
It's like your favorite characters and idols are presenting in front of the entire world. You really want your idol to shine.
For me, when the time the movies came out, I really wanted to rely on TF not to fail me, to show the world substance, and make more people like it and care about it. Because when more people are involved, it grows and becomes something we can all share, and even discuss at a gathering or something.

What I found with DOTM and the other movies, they never achieved that level. I'd be just waiting for the next movie to come out, hoping it will be different this time round.

But it still remains when you're having a conversation with some girl about movies and you mention TF, their response is still "oh you like those movies, they're really noisy, shallow, bad acting, etc..."
And you wish , that had Bay (or writers, or whatever entity is responsible for the content) portrayed it in a deeper manner, she might respond "I really felt this and that".
For example, how the "masses" talk about Forest Gump, or top tier movies. They have this substance, that any one can talk about them. And I am aware, every girl/guy is different and it depends on interest, but I'm speaking in a much more broader sense and an experience unique to my own.

Before you go pointing out that this is not a problem with the movie, it's a problem with the person who wants the movie to "please" masses, and he/she shouldn't feel that way because it shouldn't be justified.
I just want to know if you guys , as TF fans have encountered this problem.

Maybe it's always going to be like that, maybe TF will not be elevated to a higher state material, because it's in the end targeted at younger audiences. And I accept that now, I've been looking at it the wrong way all the time. Screw the "masses" if they don't like it, and think it's shallow/childish, I like it because I like it...period.

I feel that we had a chance to take these conversations about TF beyond the closed spaces of the internet and bring them to the real world. Since the cost was a radical change in the characters, so we must have gained something right? When I heard a potential TF4, with same symptoms as the other 3, I feared we might be running into the same scenario.
Imagine a TF movie, not just about big explosions and actions sequences, something that can perhaps enlighten us more about the human condition (as did the comics, and more recently, the IDW comics). I hoped that after watching the movies, I would learn something from it, not just sit through eye candy, or ponder classic cliche betrayal themes. I'm glad I saw the pyramids, Udvar Hasey Air and Space Museam, Washington DC, Chicago through the eyes of a movie. But Tf didn't do it for me, I didn't feel a sense of journey, or even caring for the characters. And I have had deep connections with those characters ever since G1. And I should care about them. When he killed Prime at the beginning of ROTF, it felt real, genuine, human. But when they brought him back at the end, the movie lost all its credibility. Killing Prime doesn't have to happen to induce a strong emotion in the audience, but they had an amazing opportunity to do so. They gave him a sad leave, sad music, Sam caring, and then in the end, boom he's back. It cut the entire flow. In Dotm, it was just a train of action, with no feelings in it, was just one action scene after another, and in the end there was no closure at all.
As with any movie there were moments, Bee and Sam, Sam and Carly, it's not all bad. Could have been better is what I am saying.

One of your responses "Who gives a damn?" stayed with me most, maybe I'm giving this too much thought and I shouldn't give a damn if they make Megan Fox a Transformer and I should just enjoy the ride. I don't own the franchise, worst comes to worse, I'll switch over to Pokemon (they just don't care what the hell happens to their fans).

I'm not here to Troll, I hope you understand that. This still remains a TF forum, and I think that I have brought my opinion to the correct place.

Thank you for your responses, they did allow me to look at things from a different perspective.

Thanks for reading my long post
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Re: Tyrese Gibson predicts the return of M. Bay and Shia LaBeouf for TF4

Postby Burn » Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:49 am

budmaloney wrote:But it still remains when you're having a conversation with some girl about movies and you mention TF, their response is still "oh you like those movies, they're really noisy, shallow, bad acting, etc..."


Funny, every female non-TF fan I spoke to absoloutely loved them.

Guess you're just chatting up the wrong chicks.
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Re: Tyrese Gibson predicts the return of M. Bay and Shia LaBeouf for TF4

Postby budmaloney » Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:52 am

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Burn wrote:
budmaloney wrote:But it still remains when you're having a conversation with some girl about movies and you mention TF, their response is still "oh you like those movies, they're really noisy, shallow, bad acting, etc..."


Funny, every female non-TF fan I spoke to absoloutely loved them.

Guess you're just chatting up the wrong chicks.


I think so.

Can u possible send them my way, I haven't had success with any on my end

here is my contact, feel free to refer them

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Re: Tyrese Gibson predicts the return of M. Bay and Shia LaBeouf for TF4

Postby Lastjustice » Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:36 pm

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If I recall correctly, wasn't Sentinel termed the Einstein of their race. Maybe my wording wasn't clear. I meant to say , there was no need for a conflict. Sentinel is the leader right, and if he chose to work with the Decepticons, the Autobots should follow. If they disagree with him, they shouldn't duke it out.
Killing Ironhide is not a big deal, if he was they would have given him a funeral or something. I mean he's the Einstein of their race, he must know something they don't know right? Shouldn't the Autobots have paused and thought about it



So because someone is smarter than you in one aspect of intelligence we should follow Ayn Rand's stance of objectivism and just let them do whatever the hell they want? Morality be damned. Just because something on paper makes sense as being the most effective way of achieving a task doesn't make it the proper way of handling it. It's a technicality, not the spirit of the law that the people really hoped to achieve.

Say my brother needs a new kidney because he fried them drinking....oh well logically I just kill potential donor or steal organs to make sure he gets replacements to live. Logically that's the most effective way of getting organs..take them from perfectly healthy people. Want to cut down New York city's crime rate? Drop a bomb on it and kill 90% of the population. There will be far less reported crimes...on paper looking purely at numbers it works.

That's the world you find yourself in. Just like Megatron said, is the future of our race worth a single human life? Optimus replies...you'll never stop at one! Because he won't, Sentinel Prime had gone down the same slippery slope. We'll just take some resources and leave he says at first. If that's all he wanted humans probably would have given him a good amount of them in exchange for their technology if it was a reasonable amount.

Sentinel never was reasonable. He knew what he was doing was wrong, but was willing sell out himself and his culture to ensure his victory and continued leadership.

He struck first and killed Ironhide because he was the greatest threat to him when he revealed his true colors. He never tried to sway the remaining autobots to his cause. He knew they were loyal to Optimus and humanity. If he couldn't sway Optimus then they were dead to him. Optimus was the only one he ever tried talk, but was more or less hey Im right , and you're with me or agains me. Not this my plan and how can we make this happen without breaking too many eggs?

Optimus tried to talk Sentinel down and even offered his position back to Sentinel as the leader of the autobots as Hot Rod did in Dark Awakening. Prime was willing to be reasonable. Every time he showed any mercy or compassion the Decepticons turned around and made him pay for it. Why he took out both Sentinel Prime and Megatron because the only way the war could ever end is if the heads were removed. (litterally in this case heh.)

So why should have Optimus Prime bowed down and just humanity pay the price of a war it had no hand in starting? (if that's where his conviction lied then he should just let Megatron rule ages ago.) Doing what is right isn't about what is logical or easy. The right thing is usually the hardest choice. One that requires self sacrifice, not the sacrifice of others. That's what heroes do, real or fictional.
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Re: Tyrese Gibson predicts the return of M. Bay and Shia LaBeouf for TF4

Postby Autobot032 » Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:58 pm

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budmaloney wrote:If I recall correctly, wasn't Sentinel termed the Einstein of their race. Maybe my wording wasn't clear. I meant to say , there was no need for a conflict. Sentinel is the leader right, and if he chose to work with the Decepticons, the Autobots should follow. If they disagree with him, they shouldn't duke it out.
Killing Ironhide is not a big deal, if he was they would have given him a funeral or something. I mean he's the Einstein of their race, he must know something they don't know right? Shouldn't the Autobots have paused and thought about it.


Whoa, wait a minute. This... how on Earth did I miss this? The logic behind this is just baffling.

So...because Sentinel has "superior" intelligence, he's better than the rest?

"Superior" thinking has led to some of the worst atrocities imaginable. The "simple" thinkers tend to have more of a heart. Those simple thinkers are the people saving the day.

Sentinel thought he was a God. He wasn't. He was ended with a shotgun blast to the back of the head. Where was his superior intelligence then? Oh right, laying on a bridge near Wacker Drive.

You know why he met with Megatron in secret? You know why he took the Spacebridge and hid his plan? Because he knew the Autobots wouldn't allow him to finish this. The Primes destroyed themselves to stop The Fallen, because they made a pact not to destroy worlds filled with life. Sentinel was going to do just that and Optimus would've never stood for it. Never.

Optimus thinks more with his heart and look at how many lives he saved. Sentinel thought with his mind and mind only with no emotion but anger and hatred and look at how many lives he took and how many more would've been lost.

Ironhide was important, we never got to see his funeral because the film moved so fast. He was killed and the betrayal was well on it's way long before the Autobots even knew what to do or how to counter it. You fight the fight now, mourn later. Save lives now, put lost ones to rest later.

Sentinel was wrong. Always was, always has been. Anyone with a conscience should know this. Anyone who agrees with his thinking genuinely scares me.

Why is it right to destroy one planet full of life to save another? Especially one that doesn't deserve it? The Cybertronians tore Cybertron apart. They're lucky to be alive, period. What right do they have to have a planet of their own to begin with? Let alone take ours and our people? None.

Optimus knows this. The Autobots know this. Even Sentinel knew this, he was so mad with power, he didn't care. He thought he was a God.

Being Einstein doesn't matter much if you can't use that knowledge for good. Even Einstein had regrets, his works didn't always bring good into the world. Sentinel was capable of worse, so much worse. Difference is, Sentinel had no conscience.

What good is knowledge without wisdom?
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Re: Tyrese Gibson predicts the return of M. Bay and Shia LaBeouf for TF4

Postby dinogeist » Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:13 pm

Going back on topic:

I wouldn't take anything Tyrese Gibson has to say regarding TF4 serious. because he has no inside info.

micheal isn't comming back for a TF4 because he wants to end this on a high note. micheal fear a bomb TF 4 will end his career & embarass him.

Shia aint comming back because he probably won't be asked to come back. the only reason shia stayed so long was because micheal liked him.

I can see them doing a reboot or a prequel next.

usually toy companies or movie companies don't like to go past a certain number of movies in a certain themed story universe. because the more movies you make,the curse of more is their. examples those rocky movies,superman movies,star trek ,rambo,police academy & so forth.
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Re: Tyrese Gibson predicts the return of M. Bay and Shia LaBeouf for TF4

Postby 5150 Cruiser » Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:30 pm

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budmaloney wrote:If I recall correctly, wasn't Sentinel termed the Einstein of their race. Maybe my wording wasn't clear. I meant to say , there was no need for a conflict. Sentinel is the leader right, and if he chose to work with the Decepticons, the Autobots should follow. If they disagree with him, they shouldn't duke it out.
Killing Ironhide is not a big deal, if he was they would have given him a funeral or something. I mean he's the Einstein of their race, he must know something they don't know right? Shouldn't the Autobots have paused and thought about it.


[/quote]

Correction; Sentinel Prime was their leader. Optimus attempted to give Sentinel Prime back his command as well as the Matrix of Leadership, but Sentinel diened both. There fore, Optimus was still in command.

deathy wrote: Going back on topic:

I wouldn't take anything Tyrese Gibson has to say regarding TF4 serious. because he has no inside info..


And you know this how? He worked with Micheal for the last 5 years on TF. So i wouldn't just dis-credit what he has to say without some kind of evidence.

deathy wrote: Shia aint comming back because he probably won't be asked to come back. the only reason shia stayed so long was because micheal liked him..


Again, what evidence do you have of this? Based on interviews with the casst and crew, he people seemed to like him. Based on your previous posts and even a thread you started, you seem to have this un explained hate for Shia. Why?

deathy wrote: usually toy companies or movie companies don't like to go past a certain number of movies in a certain themed story universe. because the more movies you make,the curse of more is their. examples those rocky movies,superman movies,star trek ,rambo,police academy & so forth.


Can you elaborate on the highlighted portion please? I don't understand what you mean by that at all.
Also, your aurgument doesn't really hold up. There's no set rule or formul to how many sequels you can do before things get stale. Also the examples you gave have sequels ranging from 2, to 10 movies based in the same universe. All of whitch were sucsessfull.
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Re: Tyrese Gibson predicts the return of M. Bay and Shia LaBeouf for TF4

Postby Dagon » Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:22 am

Motto: "Ain't nobody got time fo dat....."
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Autobot032 wrote:So...because Sentinel has "superior" intelligence, he's better than the rest?


Well, by definition of "superior," yes, Sentinel was better than the rest. I know, I know, you've often got on me for saying things like that, like I'm nitpicking or acting "Superior" myself, but by the very definition, it's true, and that's not me making some biased statement.

"Superior" thinking has led to some of the worst atrocities imaginable. The "simple" thinkers tend to have more of a heart. Those simple thinkers are the people saving the day.


There is some truth to this, but it's not always so, and in fact "simple" thinkers are also behind a number of atrocities, and that they "tend" to have more "heart," whatever that means, is a generalization. If that's meant to mean that they generally think more about the greater good, that's malarky. Complex thinking may have lead to atomic weapons, but any "simple" thinker can sharpen something to a point and stab someone. Stupid? Yeah. Overly simplistic? Yeah. Correct? Yeah.
I think what you're working at is the idea that "simple" thinkers are somehow incapable of or far less likely to engage in actions detrimental to the unity of life or a societal group or something, and that's flawed logic, really. Every and any person, regardless of whatever word we want to use to label their degree of thinking or intelligence or whatever, is capable of committing some atrocious action.
Besides, that's sort of witch-hunting, isn't it? What you typed says in essence that smarter people or greater intellects are responsible for atrocities, as if we should be afraid of intelligence, like that's some bad thing. I assume what you mean is that the illusion of superiority is the real bad thing, that thought that makes people say "We're better than (superior to) that group and therefore should be in control of things." That, I absolutely agree with you on. That is responsible for atrocities, whether we want to talk about genocide or invasion or denying marriage rights. That's wildly bad thinking.

Sentinel thought he was a God. He wasn't. He was ended with a shotgun blast to the back of the head. Where was his superior intelligence then? Oh right, laying on a bridge near Wacker Drive.


May I add that, admittedly going off the tech specs of a toy, Optimus Prime also has a "10" in Intelligence, as well as Strength and Firepower. Where did that get him in the forest in ROTF? Oh right, dead.
Yet, we as a collective continue to laud Optimus as the best there is.

You know why he met with Megatron in secret? You know why he took the Spacebridge and hid his plan? Because he knew the Autobots wouldn't allow him to finish this. The Primes destroyed themselves to stop The Fallen, because they made a pact not to destroy worlds filled with life. Sentinel was going to do just that and Optimus would've never stood for it. Never.


Absolutely. I find Optimus to be a pansy in pretty much every TF continuity, and I can do nothing but say that had he known what Sentinel was up to ahead of time Optimus would have killed him or at least like, reported him to a higher authority. Optimus never would have followed Sentinel in this, even with all of his genuflecting and admiration.

Optimus thinks more with his heart and look at how many lives he saved. Sentinel thought with his mind and mind only with no emotion but anger and hatred and look at how many lives he took and how many more would've been lost.


And he also doomed his own planet/race. Yes, he saved Earth, and saved more lives than he took. But essentially he made a trade, and it was the opposite of the trade Sentinel was working to make. If anything, realistically, Optimus and Sentinel made the same devil's deal here, it's just that since Optimus saved our planet we call him the better end of it.
Stripped of the names, one character allowed an inhabited planet to die rather than sacrifice another inhabited planet, while the other character allowed an inhabited planet to die rather than sacrifice another inhabited planet. It comes down to which planet you're cheering for.

Ironhide was important, we never got to see his funeral because the film moved so fast. He was killed and the betrayal was well on it's way long before the Autobots even knew what to do or how to counter it. You fight the fight now, mourn later. Save lives now, put lost ones to rest later.


I agree with you tactically, but story-wise, I thought it sucked that they never even reference Ironhide's death. But at least it was consistent with the rest of the movies' treatment of characters though, and regardless of how that's interpreted, I mean it in a good way. Had they all of a sudden started caring about someone's death, it would have been out of whatever character the movies had fostered. And obviously the Autobots were about to have much bigger things to deal with, so thinking they could just stop and cry over anything is a little off.

Sentinel was wrong. Always was, always has been. Anyone with a conscience should know this. Anyone who agrees with his thinking genuinely scares me.


You can agree with something or someone without thinking that they have a good or correct course of action. I am wildly anti-religious, and yet without any hesitation or doubt I can say that I agree with numerous ideas and principles promoted by the world's various religions.

Why is it right to destroy one planet full of life to save another? Especially one that doesn't deserve it? The Cybertronians tore Cybertron apart. They're lucky to be alive, period. What right do they have to have a planet of their own to begin with? Let alone take ours and our people? None.


As human beings in a real world sense, we're not exactly in a position to criticize others for ruining their world, and the idea that we have the vantage point to decide someone else doesn't 'deserve' something is really awful. We have engaged in countless wars since the dawn of our civilization, have polluted and damaged our very planet, routinely discriminate against our own kind, have a species-wide history of putting our particular subsection above other members of the same species, and have driven other living things to extinction. From a moral perspective, what right do we have to pass judgment on any other set of beings?
To his credit, as hard as it may be to accept for some reason, Sentinel does bad things but from a good intention. He's trying to do something that will save his planet and race. That by itself is in no way a bad thing. It's his methods that were deplorable. Optimus at least recognizes that the Cybertronians maybe aren't worthy of survival, but that doesn't change that he does save Earth by dooming Cybertron.
Again, to strip out the names and just leave the deeds to be evaluated, one character does something bad but was motivated by a desire to do good, while the other character does something bad motivated by the desire to do good. It's a pick, really, and Optimus looks like the better guy because our planet was the winner.

Being Einstein doesn't matter much if you can't use that knowledge for good. Even Einstein had regrets, his works didn't always bring good into the world. Sentinel was capable of worse, so much worse. Difference is, Sentinel had no conscience.

What good is knowledge without wisdom?


Good is relative. Again, Optimus did 'good' because our planet won. Sentinel did have a conscience, he was acting to save his planet and people. Had Sentinel won, the Cybertronians would have thought that the right planet was saved.
If abortion is outlawed, some people feel the right decision was reached and it upholds a moral standard that maybe isn't shared by every single person, but that moral victory comes at the reduction of the individual freedoms of other people who may not find it a 'moral' issue. So, restricting others makes the other side morally better?

Likewise, wisdom is relative. It's something that's valued, but isn't exactly necessary. Don't get me wrong, I am all for wisdom, and I personally find it something to be valued. But, if my brain surgeon is more possessed of knowledge than wisdom, I'm fine with that, as his knowledge will lead to my brain transplant being successful, not his wisdom.
Last edited by Dagon on Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tyrese Gibson predicts the return of M. Bay and Shia LaBeouf for TF4

Postby Dagon » Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:27 am

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Disasterous double post. All my apologies.
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Re: Tyrese Gibson predicts the return of M. Bay and Shia LaBeouf for TF4

Postby ReDPATH » Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:12 pm

Well to answer some of the obvious things regarding this 'news'.

1.Gibson is only saying this because he wants to generate hype and because he believes it will happen. Sure he has his gut and he did work with Bay for the better part of the last decade.

2. Its ultimately Paramount's decision on whether or not to continue to fork money over to Bay/Shia at the expense of potentially increased salaries or with a new crew that may come at a cheaper price but still maintain or go above DOTM revenue. The only difference being they will probably go with someone or a crew with a proven commodity.

3. Do they want to deal with the media circus surrounding the Bay/Spielberg/Fox feud that will inevitably pop up again in some form only in some new, strange angle involving Shia or some sex scandal.

4. That's all I got.
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Re: Tyrese Gibson predicts the return of M. Bay and Shia LaBeouf for TF4

Postby PrymeStriker » Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:35 pm

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Weapon: Augmented Quark Disruptor
Dagon wrote:May I add that, admittedly going off the tech specs of a toy, Optimus Prime also has a "10" in Intelligence, as well as Strength and Firepower. Where did that get him in the forest in ROTF? Oh right, dead.
Yet, we as a collective continue to laud Optimus as the best there is.


Erm, the toys and films are considered to have their own continuity by some fans, whether you take it this way or not is your decision...

or at least like, reported him to a higher authority.


Uhm...what, the humans or something? I don't think there are any other Autobots higher than himself that he could've reported him to, without searching galaxies...

I thought it sucked that they never even reference Ironhide's death


He was killed, and the other autobots were all like: "Oh well, let's get back to the story, and let's leave this rust here for the maggots to eat. *spits on Ironhide's rust*"

:-(





Back on topic...I'd love to see a TF4, as long as they gimmie Unicron and Omega Supreme >_<
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Re: Tyrese Gibson predicts the return of M. Bay and Shia LaBeouf for TF4

Postby Dagon » Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:12 pm

Motto: "Ain't nobody got time fo dat....."
Weapon: Null-Ray Rifle
Gyrotron wrote:
Dagon wrote:May I add that, admittedly going off the tech specs of a toy, Optimus Prime also has a "10" in Intelligence, as well as Strength and Firepower. Where did that get him in the forest in ROTF? Oh right, dead.
Yet, we as a collective continue to laud Optimus as the best there is.


Erm, the toys and films are considered to have their own continuity by some fans, whether you take it this way or not is your decision...


I know that. That's why I said that I was getting Optimus' "10" stat from the tech spec for his toy.

or at least like, reported him to a higher authority.


Uhm...what, the humans or something? I don't think there are any other Autobots higher than himself that he could've reported him to, without searching galaxies...


Well, obviously not the humans, since Sentinel's plan began to form before the Autobots had made the humans' aquaintance. But, the Prime is not the end-all-be-all of Autobot leadership....in the prequal comic for the 07 movie, wasn't it stated that Megatron and Optimus were part of a collalition or governing team on Cybertron before the war erupted? I seem to recall that, although I could be mistaken. IF such a body existed during Optimus and Megatrons' time, it isn't crazy to think that it existed when Sentinel was in charge and on planet. So, it probably shouldn't be difficult to imagine that that would have been the 'higher authority' I was mentioning, as it was what I had thought of while posting.
If all of that is somehow stupid, then the Prime is a totalitarian leader? And so then, how does that make the Autobot leadership structure different from the Decepticons, who are essentially a dictatorship?

I thought it sucked that they never even reference Ironhide's death


He was killed, and the other autobots were all like: "Oh well, let's get back to the story, and let's leave this rust here for the maggots to eat. *spits on Ironhide's rust*"

:-(


Like I said, they don't reference Ironhide's death. At least Jazz had his name spoken by Prime following his death. Ironhide didn't even get that much.
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Re: Tyrese Gibson predicts the return of M. Bay and Shia LaBeouf for TF4

Postby PrymeStriker » Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:35 pm

Motto: "Brilliant"
Weapon: Augmented Quark Disruptor
Dagon wrote:Well, obviously not the humans, since Sentinel's plan began to form before the Autobots had made the humans' aquaintance. But, the Prime is not the end-all-be-all of Autobot leadership....in the prequal comic for the 07 movie, wasn't it stated that Megatron and Optimus were part of a collalition or governing team on Cybertron before the war erupted? I seem to recall that, although I could be mistaken. IF such a body existed during Optimus and Megatrons' time, it isn't crazy to think that it existed when Sentinel was in charge and on planet. So, it probably shouldn't be difficult to imagine that that would have been the 'higher authority' I was mentioning, as it was what I had thought of while posting.
If all of that is somehow stupid, then the Prime is a totalitarian leader? And so then, how does that make the Autobot leadership structure different from the Decepticons, who are essentially a dictatorship?


The problem is, there is possibly no other higher authority on Earth that could take Sentinel, therefore highlighting the statement: "Without searching the galaxies"
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Re: Tyrese Gibson predicts the return of M. Bay and Shia LaBeouf for TF4

Postby Dagon » Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:46 pm

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Gyrotron wrote:
Dagon wrote:Well, obviously not the humans, since Sentinel's plan began to form before the Autobots had made the humans' aquaintance. But, the Prime is not the end-all-be-all of Autobot leadership....in the prequal comic for the 07 movie, wasn't it stated that Megatron and Optimus were part of a collalition or governing team on Cybertron before the war erupted? I seem to recall that, although I could be mistaken. IF such a body existed during Optimus and Megatrons' time, it isn't crazy to think that it existed when Sentinel was in charge and on planet. So, it probably shouldn't be difficult to imagine that that would have been the 'higher authority' I was mentioning, as it was what I had thought of while posting.
If all of that is somehow stupid, then the Prime is a totalitarian leader? And so then, how does that make the Autobot leadership structure different from the Decepticons, who are essentially a dictatorship?


The problem is, there is possibly no other higher authority on Earth that could take Sentinel, therefore highlighting the statement: "Without searching the galaxies"



Ok then, but I just mentioned the possiblity of there being a higher authority than Sentinel. I never said anything about this having to be done on earth. Sentinel's plan originated before he came to earth right? Considering they found his body on the moon, and not on earth. What I was saying was if Sentinel had this plan before leaving Cybertron, had Optimus known about it still on Cybertron, Optimus could have possibly turned to a higher authority, once more, on Cybertron. I meant before Sentinels' revival on earth, or the moon, or whichever. I never said anything about this having to take place on earth.
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