Autobot032 wrote:So...because Sentinel has "superior" intelligence, he's better than the rest?
Well, by definition of "superior," yes, Sentinel was better than the rest. I know, I know, you've often got on me for saying things like that, like I'm nitpicking or acting "Superior" myself, but by the very definition, it's true, and that's not me making some biased statement.
"Superior" thinking has led to some of the worst atrocities imaginable. The "simple" thinkers tend to have more of a heart. Those simple thinkers are the people saving the day.
There is some truth to this, but it's not always so, and in fact "simple" thinkers are also behind a number of atrocities, and that they "tend" to have more "heart," whatever that means, is a generalization. If that's meant to mean that they generally think more about the greater good, that's malarky. Complex thinking may have lead to atomic weapons, but any "simple" thinker can sharpen something to a point and stab someone. Stupid? Yeah. Overly simplistic? Yeah. Correct? Yeah.
I think what you're working at is the idea that "simple" thinkers are somehow incapable of or far less likely to engage in actions detrimental to the unity of life or a societal group or something, and that's flawed logic, really. Every and any person, regardless of whatever word we want to use to label their degree of thinking or intelligence or whatever, is capable of committing some atrocious action.
Besides, that's sort of witch-hunting, isn't it? What you typed says in essence that smarter people or greater intellects are responsible for atrocities, as if we should be afraid of intelligence, like that's some bad thing. I assume what you mean is that the illusion of superiority is the real bad thing, that thought that makes people say "We're better than (superior to) that group and therefore should be in control of things." That, I absolutely agree with you on. That is responsible for atrocities, whether we want to talk about genocide or invasion or denying marriage rights. That's wildly bad thinking.
Sentinel thought he was a God. He wasn't. He was ended with a shotgun blast to the back of the head. Where was his superior intelligence then? Oh right, laying on a bridge near Wacker Drive.
May I add that, admittedly going off the tech specs of a toy, Optimus Prime also has a "10" in Intelligence, as well as Strength and Firepower. Where did that get him in the forest in ROTF? Oh right, dead.
Yet, we as a collective continue to laud Optimus as the best there is.
You know why he met with Megatron in secret? You know why he took the Spacebridge and hid his plan? Because he knew the Autobots wouldn't allow him to finish this. The Primes destroyed themselves to stop The Fallen, because they made a pact not to destroy worlds filled with life. Sentinel was going to do just that and Optimus would've never stood for it. Never.
Absolutely. I find Optimus to be a pansy in pretty much every TF continuity, and I can do nothing but say that had he known what Sentinel was up to ahead of time Optimus would have killed him or at least like, reported him to a higher authority. Optimus never would have followed Sentinel in this, even with all of his genuflecting and admiration.
Optimus thinks more with his heart and look at how many lives he saved. Sentinel thought with his mind and mind only with no emotion but anger and hatred and look at how many lives he took and how many more would've been lost.
And he also doomed his own planet/race. Yes, he saved Earth, and saved more lives than he took. But essentially he made a trade, and it was the opposite of the trade Sentinel was working to make. If anything, realistically, Optimus and Sentinel made the same devil's deal here, it's just that since Optimus saved our planet we call him the better end of it.
Stripped of the names, one character allowed an inhabited planet to die rather than sacrifice another inhabited planet, while the other character allowed an inhabited planet to die rather than sacrifice another inhabited planet. It comes down to which planet you're cheering for.
Ironhide was important, we never got to see his funeral because the film moved so fast. He was killed and the betrayal was well on it's way long before the Autobots even knew what to do or how to counter it. You fight the fight now, mourn later. Save lives now, put lost ones to rest later.
I agree with you tactically, but story-wise, I thought it sucked that they never even reference Ironhide's death. But at least it was consistent with the rest of the movies' treatment of characters though, and regardless of how that's interpreted, I mean it in a good way. Had they all of a sudden started caring about someone's death, it would have been out of whatever character the movies had fostered. And obviously the Autobots were about to have much bigger things to deal with, so thinking they could just stop and cry over anything is a little off.
Sentinel was wrong. Always was, always has been. Anyone with a conscience should know this. Anyone who agrees with his thinking genuinely scares me.
You can agree with something or someone without thinking that they have a good or correct course of action. I am wildly anti-religious, and yet without any hesitation or doubt I can say that I agree with numerous ideas and principles promoted by the world's various religions.
Why is it right to destroy one planet full of life to save another? Especially one that doesn't deserve it? The Cybertronians tore Cybertron apart. They're lucky to be alive, period. What right do they have to have a planet of their own to begin with? Let alone take ours and our people? None.
As human beings in a real world sense, we're not exactly in a position to criticize others for ruining their world, and the idea that we have the vantage point to decide someone else doesn't 'deserve' something is really awful. We have engaged in countless wars since the dawn of our civilization, have polluted and damaged our very planet, routinely discriminate against our own kind, have a species-wide history of putting our particular subsection above other members of the same species, and have driven other living things to extinction. From a moral perspective, what right do we have to pass judgment on any other set of beings?
To his credit, as hard as it may be to accept for some reason, Sentinel does bad things but from a good intention. He's trying to do something that will save his planet and race. That by itself is in no way a bad thing. It's his methods that were deplorable. Optimus at least recognizes that the Cybertronians maybe aren't worthy of survival, but that doesn't change that he does save Earth by dooming Cybertron.
Again, to strip out the names and just leave the deeds to be evaluated, one character does something bad but was motivated by a desire to do good, while the other character does something bad motivated by the desire to do good. It's a pick, really, and Optimus looks like the better guy because our planet was the winner.
Being Einstein doesn't matter much if you can't use that knowledge for good. Even Einstein had regrets, his works didn't always bring good into the world. Sentinel was capable of worse, so much worse. Difference is, Sentinel had no conscience.
What good is knowledge without wisdom?
Good is relative. Again, Optimus did 'good' because our planet won. Sentinel did have a conscience, he was acting to save his planet and people. Had Sentinel won, the Cybertronians would have thought that the right planet was saved.
If abortion is outlawed, some people feel the right decision was reached and it upholds a moral standard that maybe isn't shared by every single person, but that moral victory comes at the reduction of the individual freedoms of other people who may not find it a 'moral' issue. So, restricting others makes the other side morally better?
Likewise, wisdom is relative. It's something that's valued, but isn't exactly necessary. Don't get me wrong, I am all for wisdom, and I personally find it something to be valued. But, if my brain surgeon is more possessed of knowledge than wisdom, I'm fine with that, as his knowledge will lead to my brain transplant being successful, not his wisdom.