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Here's the game.

There's a whole lot of things both said and unsaid that have more truth than we'd like to admit about the fandom.

I for one, am a fairly vocal opponent of all the constant bitching that comes off from Transformers boards.

But! Here and now, we're going to take the opportunity to instigate culture war amongst the fans.

So, what we're going to do here is list or state those unspoken "TRUTHS" about Transformers toys, cartoons, comics, fans, etc. and let the record show that we're calling out the fandom on their crap.

Try and at least comment a little on what has been said before for discussion sake. (I saw something similar to this on another board concerning video games and it was one of the best reads I've had on a message board.)

1. Arcee is not Hot in any way shape or form. Metal vaginas are not cool.

2. RiD was a great show, with a great plot, and it appealed just as well to kids as it should to collectors.

3. Armada Megatron was more bad-ass than G1 Megatron. His plots actually work.

4. Armada/Energon/Cybertron/Classics is a superior group of toys than G1. I said it. It's true. Stop living in denial.

I totally agree about the Arcee thing and I've never understood that whole line of logic. I haven't watched any cartoons since Beast Machines, so it's hard to add to that discussion.

But I will add:

Simon Furman is not a good writer. He has carved out a niche by understanding the TF universe, but at no point are his plot lines intriguing, diverse or surprising. His writing is stilted and formulaic, and his needless, over-the-top use of exclamation points drives me nuts.

...or does it?!

Really, Furman has to rank as one of the bottom 5 comic writers I've ever read. If he didn't have Budiansky to thank for all the world-building, I doubt this guy would be employed.

Counterpunch wrote:1. Arcee is not Hot in any way shape or form. Metal vaginas are not cool.

Very true.

Counterpunch wrote:2. RiD was a great show, with a great plot, and it appealed just as well to kids as it should to collectors.

Very true.

Counterpunch wrote:3. Armada Megatron was more bad-ass than G1 Megatron. His plots actually work.

Probably true (didnt see enough of Armada to know, but I've seen enough of G1 to know how bad G1 meg's plots generaly were).

Counterpunch wrote:4. Armada/Energon/Cybertron/Classics is a superior group of toys than G1. I said it. It's true. Stop living in denial.

I'd go one further and say Cybertron had the best overall line of any transformers series ever.

Counterpunch wrote:1. Arcee is not Hot in any way shape or form. Metal vaginas are not cool.

I was unaware she had one. Anyway, Blackarachnia's much hotter.

2. RiD was a great show, with a great plot, and it appealed just as well to kids as it should to collectors.

I though it was O.K., but it was also a harbinger of laziness to come.

3. Armada Megatron was more bad-ass than G1 Megatron. His plots actually work.

BW Megatron owns both of them.

4. Armada/Energon/Cybertron/Classics is a superior group of toys than G1. I said it. It's true. Stop living in denial.

Well, this I can't argue with, especially since half the figures in A/E/C are G1 homages to start with.

i always thought armada megs was one bad mother

Well I don't think Robots can be hot.
As to RID I never wached it(don't have no PayTV)
Armada was crap the toys were just alittel bit better than G1 ( as good as no articulation) Energon was good and Cybertron also but Classics is awsom. G1 had no to littel articulation as most of the Armada toys.

As Megatron well G1 Megs was a kid anyway.

Here's a nother one The Movie Toys are some of the coolest TF lines ever.

RID was hands down better than the Armada trilogy. And it had a sense of humour.

Modern toys are for the most part, better than G1 although all lines throw scale out the window.

Furman does some characters like Grimlock, Nightbeat and Marvel Thunderwing and Starscream excellently but most of his Autobots are as generic as any Energon bot. Oh and he can't do Prowl.

Few more truths:

The G1 toon was for the most part tripe and should not be considered canon. Whoever designed Alpha Trion should be dragged out into the street and shot.
Any of the G1 comic series, especially Marvel and Dreamwave, are like Shakespeare in comparison.

Scale really needs to be addressed in the toylines!!!

- Cars should not be larger than Basics and hence would fit in better with the G1 originals like Prowl and Sideswipe. Look at the Movie Ratchet and Blackout toys and tell me they don't look stupid together in vehicle modes.

The Armada PS2 game IS what all TF games should be like. If only those guys did the toon.

Alpha Trion is an insult.

Counterpunch wrote:1. Arcee is not Hot in any way shape or form. Metal vaginas are not cool.

Too true. Also add any other fembot from all TF series here.

Counterpunch wrote:2. RiD was a great show, with a great plot, and it appealed just as well to kids as it should to collectors.

I have to disagree here. RID was too silly and childish. All of the Decepticons/Predicons were more buffoonish than they were bad, and the Autobots were more idiotic than heroic.

Counterpunch wrote:3. Armada Megatron was more bad-ass than G1 Megatron. His plots actually work.

What plots of Armada Megatron? All he did was go on a Minicon scavenger hunt through the first 2/3 of the toon. At least G1 Megatron tried different strategies.

Counterpunch wrote:4. Armada/Energon/Cybertron/Classics is a superior group of toys than G1. I said it. It's true. Stop living in denial.

If you are going just by toyline, then yes this is somewhat true, but there are some G1 figures that are really great that Hasbro/TakaraTomy hasn't been able to improve on. G1 Dinobots and the G1 Constructicons are a good example of this. Articulation alone does not a good toy make.

1) Arcee is neither physically attractive nor has an interesting personality.

2) Damn right it is, most of the problems fans blame it for starting (super mode overuse, annoying kids, incompetent Decepticons) can be traced to earlier shows. Oh and Skybite is and forever shall be the greatest shark around! His toy is one of my grails.

3) Didn't watch Armada, can't really comment, but I do find G1 Megs more entertaining than badass.

4) I love them, especially Cybertron.

5) For the most part I do like Furmans work but he has a Monolithic woody for Grim, Nightbeat & Shocky. I also think it's stupid that a big deal was made of there being no Unicron in the IDW comics as he was overused, but he then added the Reapers, who more or less serve the same plot device anyway.

6) The G1 cartoon was a lot of fun. It was a great kids show for its time. But I find the idea that anyone considers its "continuity" cannon to be laughable as it often contradicted itself.

Adding to the discussion: It's ok for G1 characters to have different alt modes every once in a while. Prime can only be some sort of red truck for so long before HasTak run out of plausible ways for trucks to transform. And as much as I love the guy, I'm glad Soundwave will never be a tape deck (or a modern equivalent) again, it was a useless alt mode.

And finally I'd like to say this is the best thread to be started in a while.

1. Being a former conesuire (sp), of Japan's greatest contribution to modern society, I believe it's only a matter of until Arcee is able to be called 'hot...

2. Never Saw it RiD, cannot comment.

3. G1 Megatron's one retro-saving grace is the great Frank Welker. Without that gravely croak, G1 Megs would be, to me, a bland and generic villain. As for plots, G1 was simple and episodic, with the occasional multiparter (I feel secure saying that 'The Ultimate Doom' and 'Countdown to Extinction' was probably the pinacle, plot-wise, of G1 (feel free to debate, of course)) Armadatron had the advantage of a flowing, interconnected plot, which held his schemes together in a much better fashion.

4. I disagree with Armada, as I'm sure I could bludgeon any of you to death with Brickscream. The aesthetics were great, but the execution was lacking. Energon/Cybertron were excellent (save for the $50 Brickscream), and I loved Classics to death.

The Movie line has taken great advantage of modern articulation and transformation technology, but is at a loss for detail or color...realism or no.

The one reason i loved the Armada line was for the mini-cons, and just how you could customize which minicons could go on which Autobot/Decipticon. That's why Armada appealed to me, and that's why i to this day try to collect the whole line.

I don't know why some would think Energon/Cybertron was better than Armada. Energon/Cybertron had so many vastily odd looking characters, and may i remind you that Energon Optimus Prime couldn't even stand on his own two legs?

And while Humans were incorparated into the whole Unicron Trilogy, i have to say atleast the Armada Humans actually did something.. even if they were bloody annoying

Jaw Crusher wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:

3. Armada Megatron was more bad-ass than G1 Megatron. His plots actually work.

BW Megatron owns both of them.

QFT, yeeeeesssss... Even when he failed, he failed with style and panache. His plans got further than those of pretty much any Megatron before or since, and he's damn slick. You never quite knew how much he knew, and he managed to be badass even with a RUBBER DUCKIE. Shame about Beast Machines, though.

Here's some more fuel for the fire: The storyline needs humans. Period. If the Transformers are in hiding on Earth while they wage war in secret, why they're hiding is an important question. Without seeing how visitors from anotheer world affect ours, there's no reason for the story to involve giant alien machine people in the first place.

Counterpunch wrote:4. Armada/Energon/Cybertron/Classics is a superior group of toys than G1. I said it. It's true. Stop living in denial.

G1, the robots looked like robots and the vehicles looked like vehicles, that's the whole premise of transformers. If you find bright colours and gimmicks more important then yes Armadaverse was better.

Dick wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:4. Armada/Energon/Cybertron/Classics is a superior group of toys than G1. I said it. It's true. Stop living in denial.

G1, the robots looked like robots and the vehicles looked like vehicles, that's the whole premise of transformers. If you find bright colours and gimmicks more important then yes Armadaverse was better.

Yeah, I see lime green construction vehicles all the time.

The best Transformer toys for kids to really play with are ones that can be transformed in less than 20 seconds. (Try doing a pretend mid-air transformation with an Alternator!)

Toys with complex transformations are not for 5 year olds.

The G1 show was a technical disaster, had weak storylines, corny dialogue, and little character development. Even so, the show had it's charm and is beloved by many for what it is. In the hearts of many, G1 is Transformers and all others are just attempts to continue cashing in on the brand. While I may not agree now, I used to think that way until I actuallywatched Beast Wars.

Beast Wars rocks!

They need to do more lines / shows without Optimus Primes and Megatrons. I think we can welcome new additions to the TF Universe without having to stand on the shoulders of the past.

Was Cyclonus Bombshell or Skywarp? The answer is: Think what you want, it doesn't matter. At all.

The G1 animated show doesn't really need be praised or criticized for imagined or factual successes or failings as set by today's standards. It was designed to sell toys to children, and it did a very good job of it. It can be enjoyed best when not trying to scrutinize it. Just enjoy the ride.

Marvel Comics G1 Prime needs a vacation, time with a counselor, and some robo-prozac. STOP WORRYING!

Marvel Comics G1 Megatron was an idiot and a horrible leader.

G1 Starscream, in any form, needs take a lesson from his Armada counterpart and shut up when he's planning to overthrow someone.

The concept of any robot with a beard is silly (If enjoyable). Seriously, I think I need to Photoshop some beards onto Megatron, Hound, Tracks and Huffer to prove it.

Judge Deliberata wrote:The concept of any robot with a beard is silly (If enjoyable). Seriously, I think I need to Photoshop some beards onto Megatron, Hound, Tracks and Huffer to prove it.

While you're at it, get Cheetor.

I'm willing to vote on fembots in general being non-sexy...

I'm also willing to say that RiD helped get me back into vehicular transformers in general, show and toyline.

Armada Megs was pretty badass, with better shemes than G1 Megs, but I'd also have to agree that BW Megs wins.

Armada through Classics and the movie toys are awesome, except the crappy ones (I'm lookin at you, Armada Sideswipe!)

I like Furman, he's written some pretty good stuff, but he does have a tendency to repeat the same kind of stories.

I regard the G1 toon as a great part of my childhood, but some of those stories were just ridiculous.. Megatron's master plan comes to mind...

I'm ok with Prime not being a red truck. hell, I regard the movie Protoform Prime as one of the coolest Primes ever and he's neither red, nor a truck.

Cyclonus is Cyclonus, no matter who he was before, he ceased to be that character when he became Cyclonus. As far as we know, the insecticons and the seekers could have been dead by that point as the only one moving and speaking was Megatron, so it doesn't matter which empty robo-corpse became Cyclonus.

Every Starscream with dreams of overthrowing anyone should learn to shut up about it.

I don't believe humans are absolutely neccessary, but, if used correctly, they can make for some good plot points.

My addition:

Mass shifting was a total waste, and a stupid idea. The decepticon leader turning into a handgun for another transformer is ridiculous at best. Despite the fact that I like Objectformers, mass shifting to something small and inconspicuous just doesn't work in my mind.

Small transformers (Mini-cons, Micromasters, etc.) that transform into vehicles should not exist due to the fact that the Transformers already turn into vehicles. say, for example, you have Prime driving next to the Micromaster Overload, both are semi trucks, but one's tiny... disguise my ass! Let them be the ones turning into objects, or heads (Love Headmasters)

Rodimus is an interesting character, he did not "kill" Optimus, he got in the way being an idiot. Being an idiot=/=kill someone. He is also a good leader, even if he lets the stress get the better or him.

How would have you liked Opy Prime go? Retirement with his mold? It was far more dignified to go in battle than be sent to the Old Bot's Home.

G1 Megatron and Soundwave are stupid altmodes for such high ranking officers. A GUN CANNOT SHOOT BY ITSELF. A TAPE RECORDER IS USELESS UNLESS YOU ARE CONTINUOUSLY REPAINTING YOURSELF. The currenter Tanks and Jets for Megs and Soundwave are far more intelligent designs for this type of series and just better in general. Even Car Megatron makes more sence. Another Mold should have been Megs back then. :/

As Judge Deliberata said, G1 Starscream is an idiot. You do not say you are overthrowing, for being an general obsenity to the decepticon cause, and being a general coward, Cyber Screamer and Armada Screamer are far better character.

Energon Screamer's Position should have been Cyclonus. He is so freaking Cyclonus.

For those of you that complain about mass and size shifting, there are ways it would work, such as conversion of mass into energy and back. It would explain why Megatron would turn into a gun (With the size difference, he'd be 10X more powerful in handgun mode). The only problem with this, is changing back from gun mode.

I really don't care about most of the other points, but Beast Wars is still the best animated (CGI or otherwise) series to go along with Transformers. It had a kick ass plot (Well... most episodes did), good characters, and even tied into the G1 series. I really doubt the movie is going to top it in anything but action or CGI capacity.

Nemesis Primal wrote:

Dick wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:4. Armada/Energon/Cybertron/Classics is a superior group of toys than G1. I said it. It's true. Stop living in denial.

G1, the robots looked like robots and the vehicles looked like vehicles, that's the whole premise of transformers. If you find bright colours and gimmicks more important then yes Armadaverse was better.

Yeah, I see lime green construction vehicles all the time.

Actually, I -DO-. There are some companies that DO paint their construction vehicles bright green.

Valandar wrote:

Nemesis Primal wrote:

Dick wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:4. Armada/Energon/Cybertron/Classics is a superior group of toys than G1. I said it. It's true. Stop living in denial.

G1, the robots looked like robots and the vehicles looked like vehicles, that's the whole premise of transformers. If you find bright colours and gimmicks more important then yes Armadaverse was better.

Yeah, I see lime green construction vehicles all the time.

Actually, I -DO-. There are some companies that DO paint their construction vehicles bright green.

I've actually seen some working on the industrial site across from our local cemetery - I freaked a little thinking "Crap, the Constructicons have come into town!"

Fang Wolf wrote: He is also a good leader, even if he lets the stress get the better or him.

Tell that to the Paradronians. He gave the order to destroy thier world because he wasn't able to capture it in one day despite the fact that the war for Cybertron went on for over 4 million years. Maybe it's just me but his expectations seem a little unreasonable. Either that or he just didn't care/want to wait that long. After all was done, how did he console the survivors? "Well Cybertrons a better place anyway it's not so perfect!" Yeah, great leader...

I'm sure this one's sure to be unpopular. I've read a lot of opinions specifying that G1 Galvatron's insanity took away from the character.

I'm more inclined to think that Galvatron's partially defined by that insanity. He may always start out alright, but he eventually loses it. Cartoon - crazy. Marvel UK - crazy. And US - crazy at the end.

I can't say I wouldn't mind seeing him portrayed normally for a long period. But I'm more used to seeing Galvatron insane than I am sane.

Ballistic90 wrote:I really don't care about most of the other points, but Beast Wars is still the best animated (CGI or otherwise) series to go along with Transformers. It had a kick ass plot (Well... most episodes did), good characters, and even tied into the G1 series. I really doubt the movie is going to top it in anything but action or CGI capacity.

Amen to that... But if the movies' even HALF as good as BW, it's still gonna rock like a hurricane.

Here's one we need to get out into the open... The Matrix of Leadership is a shameless cop-out