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JetOptimus23 wrote:That Aerialbot level's beginning was incredibly frustrating.

I have to disagree, I actually really like that part. Any extended driving or flying sections, really.

Shadowman wrote:If you think the only difference between System Shock and WfC is camera angle, then you have clearly haven't played either game. It's not even apples and oranges, it's more like comparing apples to a car.

I admit that I never played System Shock, but I've played as much Bioshock as I could handle before falling asleep, and I found - remarkably - that the gameplay in both BS and WFC consisted primarily of walking around through rooms and corridors while shooting or hitting things, occasionally punctuated by the need to pick something up or push a button.

Shadowman wrote:Yeah, because save scumming requires so much more skill.

The parts between saves do require skill - much more so than the Halo Healing approach.

Shadowman wrote:Boo hoo, you have to redo a fight or two. Man up and do it.

It's not the fight that I hate redoing. I already made that clear twice.

Shadowman wrote:Diablo II didn't use save points so I don't know why you're bringing that up. I mean, you know, save points. Like in Symphony of the Night, Metroid II onwards, Final Fantasy IV onwards, Resident Evil, Silent Hill, Grand Theft Auto, etc.

Never played them.

Shadowman wrote:Encyclopedia Dramatica. The site you've been taking all of your arguments from.

No, sorry, I've never spent any significant amount of time there. If people there are pointing out the same things that I am, then it's because people who know what they're talking about tend to come to similar conclusions.

Shadowman wrote:Now what the bloody hell are you talking about? Between the Autobot Tank and the actual fight with Zeta, there isn't even any combat. The Tank is the last real challenge of the chapter, and if you think to bring along a nucleon shock cannon, even that isn't a challenge. So I don't know what you had a problem with.

I had a problem fighting a walking teapot, a black slime monster, and three mosquito-spawner things at the same time after navigating a bunch of smashy stompy things in the Mad Hatter's realm in Madness Returns. Why you keep talking about Zeta Prime?

Shadowman wrote:All I have to go on is your word, and if I've learned anything, it's that your word isn't a particularly good source to go on.

Tweezy wrote:This is typically the case, third person shooters make use of the different camera angle to employ different control styles

Well, WFC and both Alice games employed the WASD system, so I'm not sure what you're getting at there.

Tweezy wrote:It must be so hard to switch between weapons and spend an extra second or two to find the weapon you want

When you can't heal back up to full health every time you manage to avoid getting shot at for a few seconds, then that time spent cycling between weapons can really cost you.

Tweezy wrote:then up the difficulty level and grenade yourself whenever you feel like you should have died.

(has fond memories of Warthog Jump)

Tweezy wrote:Well boo hoo, so you can't savescum, big deal

Being forced to run and jump through the smashy stompy things for ten goddamn minutes every time the teapot kills me IS a big deal.

Tweezy wrote:Woah, calm down there, son.

Yes, mommy.

JetOptimus23 wrote:That Aerialbot level's beginning was incredibly frustrating.

The only part of episode IX that I found frustrating was when Trypticon was falling down to Cybertron and I had to dodge the missiles, but had absolutely no way of knowing how far I could go in each direction, or even whether I was really moving at all.

Shadowman wrote:I have to disagree, I actually really like that part. Any extended driving or flying sections, really.

I did love jumping off ramps, transforming in midair, and swinging my mace/axe around as soon as I hit the ground...

cotss2012 wrote:

Shadowman wrote:If you think the only difference between System Shock and WfC is camera angle, then you have clearly haven't played either game. It's not even apples and oranges, it's more like comparing apples to a car.

I admit that I never played System Shock, but I've played as much Bioshock as I could handle before falling asleep, and I found - remarkably - that the gameplay in both BS and WFC consisted primarily of walking around through rooms and corridors while shooting or hitting things, occasionally punctuated by the need to pick something up or push a button.

After recovering from facepalming so hard I blacked out, I've come to realize I'm actually very glad that you said this. It means you don't know what you're talking about, at all. Everything you've posted so far is now completely undone by this one, blatantly wrong statement. And it's not a matter of opinion anymore, you have walked right into the realm of Fact, and you are wrong. Game over, man.

cotss2012 wrote:

Shadowman wrote:Diablo II didn't use save points so I don't know why you're bringing that up. I mean, you know, save points. Like in Symphony of the Night, Metroid II onwards, Final Fantasy IV onwards, Resident Evil, Silent Hill, Grand Theft Auto, etc.

Never played them.

Yikes. I'd have thought you would have played a few of those. I know I have.

To be fair, I couldn't force myself to go beyond the Medical Pavilion, so I probably missed something.

cotss2012 wrote:To be fair, I couldn't force myself to go beyond the Medical Pavilion, so I probably missed something.

You missed everything. From the sound of it, you never even got on the plane. So you never played it, or you did play it but you really did think they were similar. I hope it's the latter, since that would mean I can now read everything you have to say with the knowledge that you don't really know what it is you're saying.

Shadowman wrote:So you never played it, or...

Well, I DID play through the whole Medical Pavilion, which, while technically short, felt like the longest FPS experience of my life. Does the game really get better after that?

cotss2012 wrote:

Shadowman wrote:So you never played it, or...

Well, I DID play through the whole Medical Pavilion, which, while technically short, felt like the longest FPS experience of my life. Does the game really get better after that?

The game was good before that. You just didn't play it, because if you honestly think it's anything like WfC at all, there's no possible way you played it. Looked up a video walkthrough, maybe, but when you play either game, you cannot mistake one for the other.

What I wrote:

the gameplay in both BS and WFC consisted primarily of walking around through rooms and corridors while shooting or hitting things, occasionally punctuated by the need to pick something up or push a button.

What you read:

mistake one for the other

I'm not quite sure how you got from the former to the latter. Please, if you're going to insult me, it should be for the stupid shit that I do say. There's plenty of that to work with; no need to make things up.

cotss2012 wrote:I'm not quite sure how you got from the former to the latter. Please, if you're going to insult me, it should be for the stupid shit that I do say. There's plenty of that to work with; no need to make things up.

You're right. Nevermind that your description of "gameplay" is the most bare-bones definition I've ever heard, it actually defines every game ever made in the history of the industry, and fails to take into account literally everything else that makes up gameplay. (Enemy AI, handling, weapons, sub-weapons, ability to take and receive damage, etc.) It's proof-positive you don't know what you're talking about on the matter.

Shadowman wrote:You're right.

What? I am? My apologies; I won't let it happen again.

Shadowman wrote:your description of "gameplay" is the most bare-bones definition I've ever heard, it actually defines every game ever made in the history of the industry,

With the exceptions of RTS, TBS, adventure/puzzle games, sim games...

Shadowman wrote:and fails to take into account literally everything else that makes up gameplay. (Enemy AI, handling, weapons, sub-weapons, ability to take and receive damage, etc.)

Let's agree to disagree on what constitutes gameplay.