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cotss2012 wrote:With the exceptions of RTS, TBS, adventure/puzzle games, sim games...

Really? Because the last time I played Starcraft, I remembered there being a lot of walking through corridors, hitting or shooting things while occasionally pushing a button or picking something up. Same with the last time I played Fire Emblem, Final Fantasy Tactics, Monkey Island, and Portal. (Covering RTS, TBS, TBS again, adventure, and puzzle in that order) You got me on sim, though, but only because I don't play sim games.

cotss2012 wrote:Let's agree to disagree on what constitutes gameplay.

There's nothing to disagree with. I described gameplay, you just described a game. Massive difference there.

Shadowman wrote:Really? Because the last time I played Starcraft, I remembered there being a lot of walking through corridors, hitting or shooting things while occasionally pushing a button or picking something up.

Nonsense. There were like 2 or 3 missions of that nature out of thirty, and even then, it wasn't the player character doing the running and shooting.

Shadowman wrote:Same with the last time I played Fire Emblem, Final Fantasy Tactics, Monkey Island, and Portal.

Monkey Island was not even remotely like what I described (though there is a brief section where you go around starting swordfights with random people), and I haven't played the others but I'm pretty sure that there weren't a lot of bad guys to shoot in Portal, or weapons with which to shoot them.

cotss2012 wrote:

Shadowman wrote:Really? Because the last time I played Starcraft, I remembered there being a lot of walking through corridors, hitting or shooting things while occasionally pushing a button or picking something up.

Nonsense. There were like 2 or 3 missions of that nature out of thirty, and even then, it wasn't the player character doing the running and shooting.

Ah, yes it is. Instead of controlling one character, you control many at once.

And yes, almost all missions involved walking through corridors, by definition of a corridor being a thin pathway.

cotss2012 wrote:

Shadowman wrote:Same with the last time I played Fire Emblem, Final Fantasy Tactics, Monkey Island, and Portal.

Monkey Island was not even remotely like what I described (though there is a brief section where you go around starting swordfights with random people), and I haven't played the others but I'm pretty sure that there weren't a lot of bad guys to shoot in Portal, or weapons with which to shoot them.

No no no, you never said anything about shooting "bad guys." You said

shooting or hitting things

The wall is a thing, you shoot Portals at it. Ergo, Portal involves shooting things.

And I am so done with you until you've played Portal, you aren't worthy of reading my words until then.

Shadowman wrote:Instead of controlling one character, you control many at once.

This doesn't change the fact that you are a Colonial Magistrate or Cerebrate or whatever controlling things from afar, and not shooting or hitting or picking up anything yourself.

Shadowman wrote:definition of a corridor being a thin pathway.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/corridor

Shadowman wrote:No no no, you never said anything about shooting "bad guys." You said

shooting or hitting things

The wall is a thing, you shoot Portals at it. Ergo, Portal involves shooting things.

Would this be a bad time to mention that I've always considered Portal to be a first-person shooter, and thus technically in the same genre as Quake?

Shadowman wrote:And I am so done with you until you've played Portal, you aren't worthy of reading my words until then.

Okay. (fires up Bittorrent)

cotss2012 wrote:

Shadowman wrote:Instead of controlling one character, you control many at once.

This doesn't change the fact that you are a Colonial Magistrate or Cerebrate or whatever controlling things from afar, and not shooting or hitting or picking up anything yourself.

I'm not shooting or picking up anything myself when I play Half-Life, either. I'm sending a command through the interface to order Gordon Freeman to do it.

cotss2012 wrote:

Shadowman wrote:definition of a corridor being a thin pathway.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/corridor

From that link:

4. a narrow tract of land forming a passageway, as one connecting two major cities or one belonging to an inland country and affording an outlet to the sea: the Polish Corridor

If you're going to prove me wrong, at least use evidence that doesn't prove me right.

cotss2012 wrote:

Shadowman wrote:And I am so done with you until you've played Portal, you aren't worthy of reading my words until then.

Okay. (fires up Bittorrent)

You're really going to pirate a $5 game? See, now not only do I think you don't know anything about gaming, I also think you pirated most of your "collection" and don't really own any games.

Shadowman wrote:I'm not shooting or picking up anything myself when I play Half-Life, either. I'm sending a command through the interface to order Gordon Freeman to do it.

In Half-Life, you ARE Gordon Freeman.

In Starcraft, you are NOT the little people on the screen.

Important difference.

Shadowman wrote:From that link:

4. a narrow tract of land forming a passageway, as one connecting two major cities or one belonging to an inland country and affording an outlet to the sea: the Polish Corridor

If you're going to prove me wrong, at least use evidence that doesn't prove me right.

Duly noted. Considering that the vast majority of Starcraft does not involve such narrow tracts, and this definition therefore does not prove you right, I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make here.

Shadowman wrote:You're really going to pirate a $5 game? See, now not only do I think you don't know anything about gaming, I also think you pirated most of your "collection" and don't really own any games.

I don't count pirated games as part of my collection. I consider them "rentals"; if I like them, I'll buy legit copies (like I did with Diablo II), and if I don't, I delete them (like with Bioshock). There's also a HUGE amount of overlap; for example, I have the Win95 versions of the first two C&C games, but they don't run too well on WinXP, so I use a pirated copy of The First Decade (which includes versions that have been rewritten to work better with XP) to play them.

With that having been said, my copy of Madness Returns is my latest bought-and-paid-for hard copy from Fry's, and will also be the last time I ever make the mistake of buying before I try.

cotss2012 wrote:

Shadowman wrote:I'm not shooting or picking up anything myself when I play Half-Life, either. I'm sending a command through the interface to order Gordon Freeman to do it.

In Half-Life, you ARE Gordon Freeman.

In Starcraft, you are NOT the little people on the screen.

Important difference.

No, I'm not Gordon Freeman. Gordon Freeman is a fictional character that I am controlling. I am also controlling two-dozen Terran Marines.

cotss2012 wrote:

Shadowman wrote:From that link:

4. a narrow tract of land forming a passageway, as one connecting two major cities or one belonging to an inland country and affording an outlet to the sea: the Polish Corridor

If you're going to prove me wrong, at least use evidence that doesn't prove me right.

Duly noted. Considering that the vast majority of Starcraft does not involve such narrow tracts

I know it does, since I actually played it. Almost every map in campaign involved bottlenecks going in and out of the starting area.

cotss2012 wrote:and this definition therefore does not prove you right, I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make here.

The point is that your "definition" of gameplay is applicable to every game ever made. You've yet to prove me wrong, though.

cotss2012 wrote:if I like them, I'll buy legit copies

That's what they all say. They're never telling the truth when they say it, though.

Shadowman wrote:No, I'm not Gordon Freeman. Gordon Freeman is a fictional character that I am controlling. I am also controlling two-dozen Terran Marines.

Allow me to clarify. In Half-Life, you assume the role of Gordon Freeman. There is no in-game difference between you and the character that you are controlling. In Starcraft, you assume the role of a cerebrate or whatever, who happens to be in control of the little five-pixel-tall people on your screen. There is an in-game difference between you and the marines.

Let me put it another way. If Gordon dies, you're dead. Game over, please insert another quarter. If your marines die, you make more marines and the fight keeps going.

Shadowman wrote:I know it does, since I actually played it. Almost every map in campaign involved bottlenecks going in and out of the starting area.

Bottlenecks aren't corridors.

Shadowman wrote:The point is that your "definition" of gameplay is applicable to every game ever made.

Except, you know, the ones that aren't first/third-person shooters.

Shadowman wrote:You've yet to prove me wrong, though.

I have several times already. You're just playing semantics.

Shadowman wrote:That's what they all say. They're never telling the truth when they say it, though.

That's because PC shooters suck these days

cotss2012 wrote:
Let me put it another way. If Gordon dies, you're dead. Game over, please insert another quarter. If your marines die, you make more marines and the fight keeps going.

Seriously? your PC charges you money whenever you die in game? Is that part of the "superior" PC gaming experience?

Wow, another reason to own a console over a PC.

Dead Metal wrote:

cotss2012 wrote:
Let me put it another way. If Gordon dies, you're dead. Game over, please insert another quarter. If your marines die, you make more marines and the fight keeps going.

Seriously? your PC charges you money whenever you die in game? Is that part of the "superior" PC gaming experience?

Wow, another reason to own a console over a PC.

Yeah, way to go DM. Could you feed him any more?

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