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Very disappointed in WFC so far

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Very disappointed in WFC so far

Postby cotss2012 » Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:09 pm

A long, long time ago, first-person shooters and their third-person **** children were actually good. Does anyone remember Duke Nukem 3D? Star Trek Voyager: Elite Force? MoHAA? American McGee's Alice? Great games, all. However, they didn't tend to port well to consoles, the reason being that consoles suck ass. Initially, console-makers decided to get around this problem by making keyboards, mice, and - god forbid - even hard drives for their machines! Then Halo came along and proved that first-person shooters for consoles could work if you crippled the game design in such a way as to work very well with the limitations of consoles.

Of course, this proved to be a bit of a problem when trying to make a game that both PC gamers and console gamers might want to play. Thus, between the 2004-2005 season of games (Far Cry, Half-Life 2, Doom 3, etc.) and the 2007-2008 season (Bioshock, Crysis, UT3), game designers - who apparently are all Marxists hell-bent on the equal sharing of misery - decided that the solution to the conundrum was not to make consoles as awesome as PCs, but rather, to make PC shooters as crappy as console shooters. A few games, like Unreal Tournament III, managed to mostly escape this curse. Most didn't. Transformers: War for Cybertron is one of the latter. It has all of the hallmarks of playing a console shooter on the PC, including, but not limited to:

- The two-gun limit
- "Halo healing"
- Checkpoints as a crappy substitute for an actual save/load system
- Zero interactivity with the environment whatsoever beyond what is required in order to win
- The expand-o-matic reticle, offering neither the precision of a real targeting reticle nor the luxury of auto-aim.

I can't say that the ultra-linear level design helps matters much, either. So why is this game so popular? Has everyone just forgotten what good shooters are like? Has everyone forgotten the joys of walking up to a toilet, pressing a key, and hearing Duke say "Ah, much better"?

Meh. I'm gonna go finish chapter III, then drink myself into a stupor.
I do not blame Michael Bay for crapping all over a huge part of my childhood. He just directed the scripts that were given to him. I blame Orci, Kurtzman, and Krueger, who seem completely incapable of concocting a story that even halfway makes sense.

RiddlerJ wrote:Each one will come with an autographed picture of Michael Bay sitting on top of a huge pile of money.
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Re: Very disappointed in WFC so far

Postby Shadowman » Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:00 pm

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
Short version of the stock argument you just used: "Boo hoo, games aren't the same as when I was a kid, and are therefore awful." I guess they must REALLY suck when you consider you don't have to go to an arcade and convert your allowance into quarters to play them, huh?

Games evolve, that's just the way it is. Doesn't make them any worse or any better.

EDIT: Also you used the "consoles are bad, PC is good" stock argument.
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Re: Very disappointed in WFC so far

Postby cotss2012 » Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:42 pm

Shadowman wrote:Short version of the stock argument you just used: "games have been deliberately crippled for one platform in order to pander to users of inferior platforms, and are therefore awful."


Fixed.

Something else that annoys me: NO SKIRMISH/"INSTANT ACTION" MODE!

Shadowman wrote:Also you used the "consoles are bad, PC is good" stock argument.


Let me know when I can do digital video editing on a console.
I do not blame Michael Bay for crapping all over a huge part of my childhood. He just directed the scripts that were given to him. I blame Orci, Kurtzman, and Krueger, who seem completely incapable of concocting a story that even halfway makes sense.

RiddlerJ wrote:Each one will come with an autographed picture of Michael Bay sitting on top of a huge pile of money.
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Re: Very disappointed in WFC so far

Postby Shadowman » Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:55 pm

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
cotss2012 wrote:
Shadowman wrote:Short version of the stock argument you just used: "games have been deliberately crippled for one platform in order to pander to users of inferior platforms, and are therefore awful."


Fixed.


Oh, the return of "PCs Superior, Consoles Inferior."

cotss2012 wrote:
Shadowman wrote:Also you used the "consoles are bad, PC is good" stock argument.


Let me know when I can do digital video editing on a console.


I dunno, Rooster Teeth has had a long, fruitful career making videos out of console games. I've never done it, though, I'm far too concerned with actually playing the game.
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Re: Very disappointed in WFC so far

Postby Burn » Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:23 pm

Are you really looking at this objectively Shadowman?

How much PC game play have you done? Because as far as i'm concerned, PC games were vastly superior. The only advantage consoles have over gaming PC's is the price.

But frankly if I wanted to play Age of Empires, Dawn of War, or other strategy games i'd definitely take PC over console any day.

Boiling it down, certain genres work better on PC, while other genres work better on console. But if PC versions are being limited so they "stay in line" with consoles, then yes, cotss has a very valid point.

But considering this particular franchise and that they want it to get to the masses, it will have to be developed primarily for the consoles. Thankfully there's still plenty of PC orientated games out there.
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Re: Very disappointed in WFC so far

Postby cotss2012 » Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:40 pm

Shadowman wrote:Oh, the return of "PCs Superior, Consoles Inferior."


Sort of. I admit that modern consoles, with the proper accessories, can actually be superior to PCs for gaming purposes. Unfortunately, modern console games are still designed with traditional console restrictions in mind.

Shadowman wrote:I dunno, Rooster Teeth has had a long, fruitful career making videos out of console games. I've never done it, though, I'm far too concerned with actually playing the game.


The RvB footage was created on an XboX, then presumably run through a capture card and edited on a computer. I'm not too sure about PANICS or The Strangerhood.
I do not blame Michael Bay for crapping all over a huge part of my childhood. He just directed the scripts that were given to him. I blame Orci, Kurtzman, and Krueger, who seem completely incapable of concocting a story that even halfway makes sense.

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Re: Very disappointed in WFC so far

Postby Tweezy » Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:44 pm

Motto: "There can only be one, like in that foreign movie where there could only be one, and in the end there was only one dude left, because that was the point"
Burn wrote:Boiling it down, certain genres work better on PC, while other genres work better on console. But if PC versions are being limited so they "stay in line" with consoles, then yes, cotss has a very valid point.

The problem with this is he's citing the consoles as the fault for poor game design as opposed to the developers. For example. Two gun limit and halo healing (I assume you mean recharging health). weren't problems in past versions of console games. Things like goldeneye and perfect dark allowed you to carry every single gun you could find, and even dual wield some of them. They also didn't have regenerating health, so you could focus on finding health packs to your hearts content. I also seem to remember these being console exclusives. (not counting goldeneye source, mind you). Neither of these things happen because the game is on a console, they happened because the game developers planned them that way. The same thing with checkpoints. As for environment interactivity, I seem to remember a certain mickey mouse based game that allowed you to paint the environment or destroy it to achieve your objectives. Red Faction Guerrilla featured fully destructible buildings and environments, and this was a multi-platform. Certainly not limited by the inferior abilities of the console. All this really boils down to is a preference for control scheme. Some people prefer mouse and keyboard, some people prefer controller.

(also perfect dark's CIM50 had an auto aim feature)
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Re: Very disappointed in WFC so far

Postby Shadowman » Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:56 pm

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
Burn wrote:Are you really looking at this objectively Shadowman?


Looking at what? I'm pointing out he's just using old stock arguments that don't really have a whole lot of meaning. Yes, certain genres do work better on PC. No, PCs are not inherently superior.

Burn wrote:How much PC game play have you done?


A few hours.
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Re: Very disappointed in WFC so far

Postby cotss2012 » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:13 pm

Oh, AND there's no LAN support. And even online play requires creating an account so that you can be snooped on. Bastards.

Tweezy wrote:Two gun limit and halo healing (I assume you mean recharging health). weren't problems in past versions of console games. Things like goldeneye and perfect dark allowed you to carry every single gun you could find, and even dual wield some of them. They also didn't have regenerating health, so you could focus on finding health packs to your hearts content.


But how well did the multi-gun-carrying system work with the standard N64 controller? How well did traditional healing work with the four-save limit?

Tweezy wrote:As for environment interactivity, I seem to remember a certain mickey mouse based game that allowed you to paint the environment or destroy it to achieve your objectives. Red Faction Guerrilla featured fully destructible buildings and environments, and this was a multi-platform.


But could you do stuff that had no relevance to the objectives at hand? Could you make prank phone calls and kick enemies' heads around like soccer balls like in Blood? Serious question, not rhetorical. I've never played those games.
I do not blame Michael Bay for crapping all over a huge part of my childhood. He just directed the scripts that were given to him. I blame Orci, Kurtzman, and Krueger, who seem completely incapable of concocting a story that even halfway makes sense.

RiddlerJ wrote:Each one will come with an autographed picture of Michael Bay sitting on top of a huge pile of money.
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Re: Very disappointed in WFC so far

Postby Shadowman » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:51 pm

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
cotss2012 wrote:Oh, AND there's no LAN support. And even online play requires creating an account so that you can be snooped on. Bastards.


You're right about LAN support, but how many online games don't require you to create an account?

cotss2012 wrote:But how well did the multi-gun-carrying system work with the standard N64 controller? How well did traditional healing work with the four-save limit?


Goldeneye is considered one of the best FPS games ever made, so I'd say quite well.

cotss2012 wrote:But could you do stuff that had no relevance to the objectives at hand? Could you make prank phone calls and kick enemies' heads around like soccer balls like in Blood? Serious question, not rhetorical. I've never played those games.


I know the last leg of Half-Life 2 (And the first leg of HL2: Episode 1) involved using enemies and bits of environment as ammunition. Ooh, and the Ghostbusters game, in which obliterating the environment was practically a gameplay mechanic. Also Just Cause 2, where the entire game is "Find something that hasn't exploded, and make it explode." And the Arkham games, in particular the Riddler Challenges, which involve digging through the environment to find things.
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Re: Very disappointed in WFC so far

Postby Tweezy » Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:02 pm

Motto: "There can only be one, like in that foreign movie where there could only be one, and in the end there was only one dude left, because that was the point"
cotss2012 wrote:But how well did the multi-gun-carrying system work with the standard N64 controller? How well did traditional healing work with the four-save limit?

Pretty well, being as how you'd press a button to switch between weapons, or if you were playing perfect dark, you could just hold down the B button and select the weapon right away.
Healing didn't really have anything to do with a four game save limit. Do you want to know why developers today don't allow you unlimited saves?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xt2uyDqbA-Q

Aside from save scumming, you don't really NEED more than 4 saves.

cotss2012 wrote:But could you do stuff that had no relevance to the objectives at hand? Could you make prank phone calls and kick enemies' heads around like soccer balls like in Blood? Serious question, not rhetorical. I've never played those games.

Once again, these are game design decisions. They are perfectly capable of being done on consoles, as well as PCs.
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Re: Very disappointed in WFC so far

Postby Shadowman » Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:11 pm

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
Tweezy wrote:
cotss2012 wrote:But how well did the multi-gun-carrying system work with the standard N64 controller? How well did traditional healing work with the four-save limit?

Pretty well, being as how you'd press a button to switch between weapons, or if you were playing perfect dark, you could just hold down the B button and select the weapon right away.
Healing didn't really have anything to do with a four game save limit. Do you want to know why developers today don't allow you unlimited saves?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xt2uyDqbA-Q

Aside from save scumming, you don't really NEED more than 4 saves.


One particular line from that, though, which sums up the idea to use only a small amount of saves:

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Re: Very disappointed in WFC so far

Postby cotss2012 » Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:45 pm

On the upside: I got a hell of a chuckle out of "Now this is a TRUE instrument of destruction" and "Spare me this mockery of justice".

All in all, I'm finding that although WFC doesn't hold a candle to the top PC shooters of the System Shock through Quake IV era, it's quite a bit better than every other watered-down-for-consoles shooter that I've played. True, Soundwave is too verbose, and I never have any idea what each weapon's maximum ammo capacity is, and I'm annoyed by my character constantly obscuring A QUARTER OF THE DAMN SCREEN, but I'm still having fun, which is something that I most definitely could not say about F.E.A.R., Crysis, Bioshock, or Madness Returns.

Shadowman wrote:You're right about LAN support, but how many online games don't require you to create an account?


I dunno, but I do remember that I never had to create an account for Elite Force, which is the only non-role-playing game that I have clear memories of playing over the Interwebs. I also never had to create an online account to play against bots in UT2004 or Westwood's (i.e., the only canon) Command & Conquer games.

Shadowman wrote:I know the last leg of Half-Life 2 (And the first leg of HL2: Episode 1) involved using enemies and bits of environment as ammunition. Ooh, and the Ghostbusters game, in which obliterating the environment was practically a gameplay mechanic. Also Just Cause 2, where the entire game is "Find something that hasn't exploded, and make it explode." And the Arkham games, in particular the Riddler Challenges, which involve digging through the environment to find things.


Those aren't the games that I asked about, but since you brought them up, HL2 was from before FPS games started getting neutered, and Ghostbusters didn't have much environmental interactivity beyond the occasional use of the slime grappling mechanism. I haven't played those other games.

More to the point, how much stuff in the environment can be played with in a way that doesn't advance the game and doesn't involve destroying them?

Tweezy wrote:Pretty well, being as how you'd press a button to switch between weapons, or if you were playing perfect dark, you could just hold down the B button and select the weapon right away.


So you could press "b", and the console would read your mind and know exactly which weapon you wanted to switch to?

Tweezy wrote:Healing didn't really have anything to do with a four game save limit. Do you want to know why developers today don't allow you unlimited saves?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xt2uyDqbA-Q


Because they're dicks?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=in6RZzdGki8

Anyway, more to the point, "Halo healing" is indeed a consequence of eliminating a true save function in favor of the inferior checkpoint system. It has the effect of making small mistakes not matter. If you win a fight, it doesn't really matter how much damage you took, because it's all wiped out afterward. Your aim sucks and the other sniper got you first? Doesn't matter, he's dead now, and you'll start the next fight at full health or shields or ego or whatever. That kind of healing system encourages sloppy play for the sake of making it easier to get through long sections of the game without saving.

Tweezy wrote:Once again, these are game design decisions. They are perfectly capable of being done on consoles, as well as PCs.


That's true. I guess that lack of interactivity is really more of a holdover from the Halo era than a result of restrictions imposed by modern consoles.

Shadowman wrote:There is no skill in replaying the same thing over and reloading save states over and over again.


How interesting, because it's actually the checkpoint system, not the traditional save system, that forces repetitive gameplay. Instead of fighting a particularly hard battle over and over until I get it right, I have to cut my way through hordes of smaller enemies AND jump through the smashy stompy things AND do the hard fight over and over again until I get the last one right. Where is the benefit in forcing me to replay the parts of the game that I have already mastered?
I do not blame Michael Bay for crapping all over a huge part of my childhood. He just directed the scripts that were given to him. I blame Orci, Kurtzman, and Krueger, who seem completely incapable of concocting a story that even halfway makes sense.

RiddlerJ wrote:Each one will come with an autographed picture of Michael Bay sitting on top of a huge pile of money.
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Re: Very disappointed in WFC so far

Postby Shadowman » Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:16 pm

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
cotss2012 wrote:Those aren't the games that I asked about, but since you brought them up, HL2 was from before FPS games started getting neutered


Let's analyze that. Now, you say Halo was the start of FPSs being "neutered?" Half-Life 2 was released about a week AFTER Halo 2. So HL2 was released before FPSs games were "neutered" but after FPS games were "neutered."

cotss2012 wrote:More to the point, how much stuff in the environment can be played with in a way that doesn't advance the game and doesn't involve destroying them?


In Just Cause 2, you get a grappling hook. It doubles as a tether. There are few things you CAN'T tether together. Tether an enemy to a car? They encourage that. Tether a car to a helicopter? I don't see why not. Tether a helicopter to a jet? Now we're cooking with gas. Tether a gas tank that tends to fly off like a rocket before exploding to an enemy, causing that enemy to be lifted into the air and flown around before exploding? Jackpot. There's even an achievement for attaching a large object to the back of your car, then driving around so that the object swings around and kills people.

You can also paint funny mustaches on billboards.

cotss2012 wrote:How interesting, because it's actually the checkpoint system, not the traditional save system, that forces repetitive gameplay. Instead of fighting a particularly hard battle over and over until I get it right, I have to cut my way through hordes of smaller enemies AND jump through the smashy stompy things AND do the hard fight over and over again until I get the last one right. Where is the benefit in forcing me to replay the parts of the game that I have already mastered?


Man up and learn to play. You shouldn't have to use save scumming to get along.
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Re: Very disappointed in WFC so far

Postby Tweezy » Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:39 pm

Motto: "There can only be one, like in that foreign movie where there could only be one, and in the end there was only one dude left, because that was the point"
cotss2012 wrote:All in all, I'm finding that although WFC doesn't hold a candle to the top PC shooters of the System Shock through Quake IV era

War for Cybertron is a different kind of game from system shock and quake IV. There are different gameplay mechanics, and different strategies to be employed. It's like comparing apples and oranges.


cotss2012 wrote:More to the point, how much stuff in the environment can be played with in a way that doesn't advance the game and doesn't involve destroying them?

Once again, this is something that has nothing to do with it being on a console.

cotss2012 wrote:So you could press "b", and the console would read your mind and know exactly which weapon you wanted to switch to?

Yes, that is exactly what I meant. I certainly did not allude to the B button cycling through the weapons you have in your inventory.


cotss2012 wrote:Anyway, more to the point, "Halo healing" is indeed a consequence of eliminating a true save function in favor of the inferior checkpoint system. It has the effect of making small mistakes not matter. If you win a fight, it doesn't really matter how much damage you took, because it's all wiped out afterward. Your aim sucks and the other sniper got you first? Doesn't matter, he's dead now, and you'll start the next fight at full health or shields or ego or whatever. That kind of healing system encourages sloppy play for the sake of making it easier to get through long sections of the game without saving.

What a nightmare, the devs thought to make the game a little less arbitrarily challenging.


cotss2012 wrote:How interesting, because it's actually the checkpoint system, not the traditional save system, that forces repetitive gameplay. Instead of fighting a particularly hard battle over and over until I get it right, I have to cut my way through hordes of smaller enemies AND jump through the smashy stompy things AND do the hard fight over and over again until I get the last one right. Where is the benefit in forcing me to replay the parts of the game that I have already mastered?

There's really no difference aside from the distance needed to cross before proceeding. In both instances, you die and reload from an earlier point. The key here is that the game does it automatically, so you don't have to trek even further when you forget to save.
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Re: Very disappointed in WFC so far

Postby Autobot032 » Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:46 pm

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Shadowman wrote:Man up and learn to play. You shouldn't have to use save scumming to get along.


Save scumming? This is a new term to me. So was auto spamming, but I learned that quickly. People hate it when you use tier 2 weapons in VS in L4D (and 2).

I'm a PC gamer, but for various reasons:

1.) Cost. Cards can be expensive, but I've limped around for years on a GT 220 1 GIG and I'll keep running it until it dies. I won't upgrade until I'm forced to. Console gaming can be expensive due to the cost of the system, the games and the network. On PC, I don't have to pay $50-60, I can wait for the price to drop to a manageable level. Plus Steam doesn't charge a fee to connect.

2.) HD this and that. While pretty, can be costly. I have a couple of old school CRT monitors laying around. Low def? Sure, but still work if need be. I realize you don't need HD to make the PS3 and 360 work, but you lose a LOT of the experience in SD.

3.) Servers. If a server goes down, there's always a 3rd party to take it's place. Whereas I've heard of console games losing their servers altogether, permanently.

Console gaming is by no means simplistic or silly. Quite the opposite, in fact. It's easier to program for, it's accepted by a wider audience, it's accessible to people of all ages. That's pretty huge, you can't deny the impact that console gaming provides. My list borders more on practicality rather than bias, though I admit that the Wii left a horrible impression and I haven't gone back to console gaming since. (Other than getting a GameCube for my favorite classic games.)

I think PC gaming does tend to lend itself to pompous elitists, which angers me to no end. Plus, players can jimmy the games and make the experience unpleasant for everyone. Not to mention, no cross platform gaming (which really sucks).

I look at it this way: There's an option for everyone and everyone should be able to play. Screw the rest of it.
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Re: Very disappointed in WFC so far

Postby Shadowman » Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:26 am

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
Autobot032 wrote:
Shadowman wrote:Man up and learn to play. You shouldn't have to use save scumming to get along.


Save scumming? This is a new term to me.


It means saving a ton of times so the game goes from being about skill to being about trial-and-error. Tweezy posted a video earlier in the thread showing off an example. A lot of devs tend to find ways to disallow it. Most games just use checkpoints and auto-saves instead of regular saving, others won't allow saving during certain situations (Like combat) or the traditional Save Point, which is like a checkpoint in a lot of ways except I have to manually activate it.

Autobot032 wrote:People hate it when you use tier 2 weapons in VS in L4D (and 2).


Well I hate getting pounced, or covered in bile, or choked, or charged, or forced into noxious acid, or pummeled with a giant rock, or whatever verb I should use for the Witch, (I want to say eviscerated but that just doesn't seem quite right) but you don't hear me complaining.

Well, you do, quite loudly. But usually I do it humorously.
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Re: Very disappointed in WFC so far

Postby Autobot032 » Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:01 am

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Shadowman wrote:
Autobot032 wrote:
Shadowman wrote:Man up and learn to play. You shouldn't have to use save scumming to get along.


Save scumming? This is a new term to me.


It means saving a ton of times so the game goes from being about skill to being about trial-and-error. Tweezy posted a video earlier in the thread showing off an example. A lot of devs tend to find ways to disallow it. Most games just use checkpoints and auto-saves instead of regular saving, others won't allow saving during certain situations (Like combat) or the traditional Save Point, which is like a checkpoint in a lot of ways except I have to manually activate it.


Ah! Done it. lol Will do so again, if possible. lol

Shadowman wrote:
Autobot032 wrote:People hate it when you use tier 2 weapons in VS in L4D (and 2).


Well I hate getting pounced, or covered in bile, or choked, or charged, or forced into noxious acid, or pummeled with a giant rock, or whatever verb I should use for the Witch, (I want to say eviscerated but that just doesn't seem quite right) but you don't hear me complaining.

Well, you do, quite loudly. But usually I do it humorously.


Exactly. I stumped the entire VS game, all 8 people, when I said "Well, the whole point is to win, at any cost, using the weapons provided to you. Tier 2, included." That just shut everyone up. :D

Can I make it with the Uzi or the pump shotgun and two pistols? Sure. Limits my chances of success, though. Why be limited because someone's all whiny?

They're right, that if you have the skill, you have no need for the Tier 2s. It could also be argued that a Tier 2 can't stop you, no matter what special you're playing, if you're just that much better than your opponent.
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Re: Very disappointed in WFC so far

Postby Shadowman » Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:15 am

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
Autobot032 wrote:Ah! Done it. lol Will do so again, if possible. lol


In some situations it's fine, like if you think you're about to make some kind of mistake that could alter the rest of the game. Like a conversation going particularly wrong, or a one-time-only item you don't want to miss. But if you need it to beat the game, then you should probably get better at the game.
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Re: Very disappointed in WFC so far

Postby Dead Metal » Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:44 am

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cotss2012 going to ed and copying their arguments and content does not argument make. ;)
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Re: Very disappointed in WFC so far

Postby cotss2012 » Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:54 pm

Shadowman wrote:Let's analyze that. Now, you say Halo was the start of FPSs being "neutered?"


No. Halo (2001) was simply a template upon which the neutered PC games from 2006 onward would model themselves.

Shadowman wrote:In Just Cause 2, you get a grappling hook. It doubles as a tether. There are few things you CAN'T tether together. Tether an enemy to a car? They encourage that. Tether a car to a helicopter? I don't see why not. Tether a helicopter to a jet? Now we're cooking with gas. Tether a gas tank that tends to fly off like a rocket before exploding to an enemy, causing that enemy to be lifted into the air and flown around before exploding? Jackpot. There's even an achievement for attaching a large object to the back of your car, then driving around so that the object swings around and kills people.

You can also paint funny mustaches on billboards.


That's one of the most awesome things I've ever heard.

Shadowman wrote:Man up and learn to play.


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Also, I recorded all of the following gameplay footage myself, without ever taking damage, so don't tell me that I need to learn how to play:

I do not blame Michael Bay for crapping all over a huge part of my childhood. He just directed the scripts that were given to him. I blame Orci, Kurtzman, and Krueger, who seem completely incapable of concocting a story that even halfway makes sense.

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Re: Very disappointed in WFC so far

Postby Shadowman » Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:05 pm

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
cotss2012 wrote:
Shadowman wrote:Let's analyze that. Now, you say Halo was the start of FPSs being "neutered?"


No. Halo (2001) was simply a template upon which the neutered PC games from 2006 onward would model themselves.


So...wait, I'm confused. Halo came out in 2001, but the effects it would have on the game industry wouldn't take effect until 2006, five years after the fact, and two years after Halo 2 came out, and less than one year into the current generation? Does this kind of delayed popularity make sense to you?

cotss2012 wrote:
Shadowman wrote:Man up and learn to play.


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I did. That's why I'm not the one complaining about the difficulty.

cotss2012 wrote:Also, I recorded all of the following gameplay footage myself, without ever taking damage, so don't tell me that I need to learn how to play:



Wow, four WHOLE minutes of not taking damage in Doom 3? That would be really impressive if it wasn't 10 second clips, of things I've already done myself, during my last three playthroughs of Doom 3.

That video doesn't show you have skills, just that you can edit a video of you save scumming.
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Re: Very disappointed in WFC so far

Postby Autobot032 » Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:24 pm

Weapon: Switch Blade Tail
I think this thread's going to get out of hand. Why does this stuff even have to get posted? Sometimes, it's better left unsaid.
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Re: Very disappointed in WFC so far

Postby cotss2012 » Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:25 pm

Shadowman wrote:So...wait, I'm confused. Halo came out in 2001, but the effects it would have on the game industry wouldn't take effect until 2006, five years after the fact, and two years after Halo 2 came out, and less than one year into the current generation? Does this kind of delayed popularity make sense to you?


It has nothing to do with popularity. It was also a gradual process; Blood II, released back in 1998, had more guns than it had weapon slots, forcing you to ditch some; however, we're talking about like 14 guns and 10 slots...

That's why I'm not the one complaining about the difficulty.


Who is?

cotss2012 wrote:Wow, four WHOLE minutes of not taking damage in Doom 3? That would be really impressive if it wasn't 10 second clips, of things I've already done myself, during my last three playthroughs of Doom 3.


You've taken down a Hell Knight in four shotgun blasts, Pinky in two, Skeletor in two, and a giant land whale in five, all without taking damage?

That video doesn't show you have skills


Actually, it does. Some of those feats are extremely difficult.
I do not blame Michael Bay for crapping all over a huge part of my childhood. He just directed the scripts that were given to him. I blame Orci, Kurtzman, and Krueger, who seem completely incapable of concocting a story that even halfway makes sense.

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Re: Very disappointed in WFC so far

Postby Shadowman » Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:37 pm

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
cotss2012 wrote:
That's why I'm not the one complaining about the difficulty.


Who is?


You are, remember? You were complaining about how bits of WfC were too hard, and you had to do them over when you died in one of the most simple fights in the game. (From the sounds of things, the Zeta Prime fight? That's not even really a fight)

cotss2012 wrote:
Wow, four WHOLE minutes of not taking damage in Doom 3? That would be really impressive if it wasn't 10 second clips, of things I've already done myself, during my last three playthroughs of Doom 3.


You've taken down a Hell Knight in four shotgun blasts, Pinky in two, Skeletor in two, and a giant land whale in five, all without taking damage?


Yep. Except for Skeletor and the whale, those two are best left to He-Man and Captain Ahab. I did take down plenty of Revenants and Cacodemons doing that, though. I even got them to fight each other for me. A tricky tactic but one that's really fun nonetheless.

cotss2012 wrote:
That video doesn't show you have skills


Actually, it does. Some of those feats are extremely difficult.


Which is why you saved immediately before, then reloaded until you got it perfect, then edited out all of your failures.
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