Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

Capt.Failure wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:Never mind that he directed on an objective level the worst three films of all time and turned the vast majority of his own fans away for good. But hey, we at least got Kinect Star Wars, am I right?

So, what, Tommy Wiseau, Ed Wood, and Uwe Boll are just pen names of his or something?

None of them created with their own hands a sci-fi classic, then with those same hands destroyed that same classic's artistic integrity. Lucas has much to answer for.

Okay, I get it. So if you make a movie, and it's good, but then make a sequel and it's bad, then you're worse than people who only make consistently bad movies. That makes sense.

This is why he left. He couldn't take the constant bitching of "fans," who kept telling him he couldn't make the movies he wanted, that his vision was second to the "fans" desires. It has everything to do with overinflated ego, just not Lucas'. I can hardly blame him for wanting to leave. He's had to put up with constant bitching for damn near forty years.

Capt.Failure wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:Never mind that he directed on an objective level the worst three films of all time and turned the vast majority of his own fans away for good. But hey, we at least got Kinect Star Wars, am I right?

So, what, Tommy Wiseau, Ed Wood, and Uwe Boll are just pen names of his or something?

None of them created with their own hands a sci-fi classic, then with those same hands destroyed that same classic's artistic integrity. Lucas has much to answer for.

To answer for? He didn't commit a crime. Look in the end star wars is/was his, we may not like everything but please lose the entitlement.

I loved starwars all my life. Heck, i even have the mando mythosaur skull tattooed on my arm. But my love for starwars died just a few months ago when i realized my child hero, boba fett, was nothing more than a label to sell merchandise. I hope only the new starwars movies will redeem my heros name.

Shadowman wrote:This is why he left. He couldn't take the constant bitching of "fans," who kept telling him he couldn't make the movies he wanted, that his vision was second to the "fans" desires. It has everything to do with overinflated ego, just not Lucas'. I can hardly blame him for wanting to leave. He's had to put up with constant bitching for damn near forty years.

Oh please, you're going to buy into that crap?

He's a damn drama queen. He has absolutely no reason to listen to the fans, and I seriously doubt he does. He left because he was made a good offer.

If you created something, built it up over 40 years, copped all sorts of criticism, would you give it up because of the criticism or the $4 billion you were offered?

Sorry, but I don't believe for an instant that Lucas couldn't handle the criticism any more. If that truly was the case, he should have a nice teaspoon of concrete and harden the **** up.

When will "fans" realise Star Wars and Lucasfilm belong to George Lucas and he can do what he wants with them? If he wants to sell his company, he is perfectly entitled to it. Just because you didn't like the prequels it doesn't mean **** to him. Those movies are the movies HE wanted in HIS franchise. Don't like it? go watch something else. The story of Star Wars comes from George Lucas. He is the story teller.

Trikeboy wrote:When will "fans" realise Star Wars and Lucasfilm belong to George Lucas and he can do what he wants with them? If he wants to sell his company, he is perfectly entitled to it. Just because you didn't like the prequels it doesn't mean **** to him. Those movies are the movies HE wanted in HIS franchise. Don't like it? go watch something else. The story of Star Wars comes from George Lucas. He is the story teller.

At least for a few more weeks

Burn wrote:Oh please, you're going to buy into that crap?

Yeah, yeah I am. Because I have no reason not to believe him. If all of your so-called fans were constantly telling you everything you're doing is wrong, that you shouldn't be making movies the way you want to, that they say you have "directed objectively the three worst movies of all time" what would you do? You can call him a "drama queen" all you like, but seriously, have you seen Star Wars fans? Good God, it's an army of people who think nostalgia suddenly gives them IP rights.

Plus he announced he was retiring from Star Wars months ago.

Shadowman wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:Never mind that he directed on an objective level the worst three films of all time and turned the vast majority of his own fans away for good. But hey, we at least got Kinect Star Wars, am I right?

So, what, Tommy Wiseau, Ed Wood, and Uwe Boll are just pen names of his or something?

None of them created with their own hands a sci-fi classic, then with those same hands destroyed that same classic's artistic integrity. Lucas has much to answer for.

Okay, I get it. So if you make a movie, and it's good, but then make a sequel and it's bad, then you're worse than people who only make consistently bad movies. That makes sense.

This is why he left. He couldn't take the constant bitching of "fans," who kept telling him he couldn't make the movies he wanted, that his vision was second to the "fans" desires. It has everything to do with overinflated ego, just not Lucas'. I can hardly blame him for wanting to leave. He's had to put up with constant bitching for damn near forty years.

He deserves it because he tries to hold the Prequels up to the original trilogy as worthwhile pieces of cinematic art. The truth is calling those films art is false on an objective level, but you'll never convince Lucas of that. This is why auteur directors are dangerous. They convince the lowest common denominator that they're watching something with artistic merit when they're not, further convincing them that it's ok to see movies by these egomaniacs.

Hopefully Disney will make the decision to erase the prequels from canon. It's the only way to properly repair the damage at this point.

Capt.Failure wrote:...then with those same hands destroyed that same classic's artistic integrity. Lucas has much to answer for.

They're HIS creations. Made with HIS time, HIS money, and HIS sweat. HE can do whatever with them that HE wants. It's NOT public property. Don't like it? Nobody made you buy a movie ticket.

For the record, I like the OT much better than the PT, but not because of the story or the effects. It was all about the (lack of) acting in the PT that turned me off. It in no way diminished my enjoyment of the OT at all.

I like the prequel movies just as i love the originals.

I can honestly say I'm both surprised and excited for this new venture. I grew up with the 1990's re-releases of episodes IV-VI in the theaters and have been a fan ever since. I'm excited not only for the impact on the films this will have, but also in the theme parks. I enjoyed both Star Tours rides and now that Disney has less red tape to run through with the license, I can't even to begin to imagine what they can do with the franchise!

Capt.Failure wrote:The truth is calling those films art is false on an objective level, but you'll never convince Lucas of that.

The fact that you think art has any sort of objectivity to it just shows you have no idea what you're talking about. Art is the purest form of subjectivity, you can't tell people what is and is not art.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:...then with those same hands destroyed that same classic's artistic integrity. Lucas has much to answer for.

They're HIS creations. Made with HIS time, HIS money, and HIS sweat. HE can do whatever with them that HE wants. It's NOT public property. Don't like it? Nobody made you buy a movie ticket.

Thank you! Too many people think Lucas ruined something that belonged to them. He didn't force anyone to watch as he broke all their stuff, he just made movies he wanted to make, and then a bunch of "fans" threw temper tantrums because it wasn't what they wanted.

Rodimus Prime wrote:For the record, I like the OT much better than the PT, but not because of the story or the effects. It was all about the (lack of) acting in the PT that turned me off. It in no way diminished my enjoyment of the OT at all.

I will say that while I do prefer the OT overall, I still liked the Prequel trilogy. Obviously not everything about it. But I did love the more fast-paced Lightsaber combat, and let's be honest, without the PT, we wouldn't have Republic Commando.

Capt.Failure wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:Never mind that he directed on an objective level the worst three films of all time and turned the vast majority of his own fans away for good. But hey, we at least got Kinect Star Wars, am I right?

So, what, Tommy Wiseau, Ed Wood, and Uwe Boll are just pen names of his or something?

None of them created with their own hands a sci-fi classic, then with those same hands destroyed that same classic's artistic integrity. Lucas has much to answer for.

Okay, I get it. So if you make a movie, and it's good, but then make a sequel and it's bad, then you're worse than people who only make consistently bad movies. That makes sense.

This is why he left. He couldn't take the constant bitching of "fans," who kept telling him he couldn't make the movies he wanted, that his vision was second to the "fans" desires. It has everything to do with overinflated ego, just not Lucas'. I can hardly blame him for wanting to leave. He's had to put up with constant bitching for damn near forty years.

He deserves it because he tries to hold the Prequels up to the original trilogy as worthwhile pieces of cinematic art. The truth is calling those films art is false on an objective level, but you'll never convince Lucas of that. This is why auteur directors are dangerous. They convince the lowest common denominator that they're watching something with artistic merit when they're not, further convincing them that it's ok to see movies by these egomaniacs.

Hopefully Disney will make the decision to erase the prequels from canon. It's the only way to properly repair the damage at this point.

All films are art, the "good" and the "bad".

I think you need to take a step back and realize these are just movies. If something this intangible is so important to you that you think someone needs to be punished well perhaps you should seek some help.

Shadowman wrote:

Burn wrote:Oh please, you're going to buy into that crap?

Yeah, yeah I am. Because I have no reason not to believe him. If all of your so-called fans were constantly telling you everything you're doing is wrong, that you shouldn't be making movies the way you want to, that they say you have "directed objectively the three worst movies of all time" what would you do? You can call him a "drama queen" all you like, but seriously, have you seen Star Wars fans? Good God, it's an army of people who think nostalgia suddenly gives them IP rights.

Plus he announced he was retiring from Star Wars months ago.

Fact remains, if people are going to sit behind their monitors and defend him by saying it's HIS creation, then he should be open to criticism.

That's life in general. The trick is knowing how to handle it. Do you listen and learn? Do you let it eat away at you until it drives you to stop? Or do you keep doing what you like and damn anyone else.

He blames the fans, so I stand by what I said, teaspoon of concrete.

Burn wrote:Fact remains, if people are going to sit behind their monitors and defend him by saying it's HIS creation, then he should be open to criticism.

Constructive criticism, yes. But that's not how Star Wars fans roll, now is it? I mean, you yourself called him an egomaniac for getting fed up with the constant complaining. And we're not talking about a couple of people saying "Well, you could have done this better," we're talking about the "fans" inflated sense of entitlement and mistaken belief that their nostalgia is more important than what the director wants to do. I would be truly amazed if you didn't know this, it's the most obvious part about Star Wars fans.

Let's face it Burn, fans(especially fan boys/girls) are not especially rational when it comes to their fandom.

Shadowman anyone who has had as much "success" as Lucas has had is bound to be a little "hinky"(brought to you by the letter h).

Shadowman wrote:And we're not talking about a couple of people saying "Well, you could have done this better," we're talking about the "fans" inflated sense of entitlement and mistaken belief that their nostalgia is more important than what the director wants to do.

I don't feel that way. I'm more of the opinion that his universe should try to be more consistent in its presentation. (Like I said before, it's hardly Clone Wars that's screwing around canon; much of the recent literature is tossing canon, plot, or common sense to the wind...)

Darth Bombshell wrote:

Shadowman wrote:And we're not talking about a couple of people saying "Well, you could have done this better," we're talking about the "fans" inflated sense of entitlement and mistaken belief that their nostalgia is more important than what the director wants to do.

I don't feel that way. I'm more of the opinion that his universe should try to be more consistent in its presentation. (Like I said before, it's hardly Clone Wars that's screwing around canon; much of the recent literature is tossing canon, plot, or common sense to the wind...)

Examples?

Burn wrote:Fact remains, if people are going to sit behind their monitors and defend him by saying it's HIS creation, then he should be open to criticism.

Criticism is fine, that's not what I was talking about. I was talking about the fact that other than buying a movie ticket and some memorabilia, a lot of the SW fandom contributed less than a moth's fart to getting the prequels made. They have absolutely NO say about the originals, as Lucas did them all on his own, especially the 1st film. The problem I have with the fandom (and this goes for most fandoms of any popular culture brand) is their sense of entitlement. Like they handed in the script to Lucas and cut him a check for the production, and he decided to do something else anyway. The OT and the PT has to be treated differently, because if it hadn't been the popularity of the OT, and the fans spending on the merchandise following, Lucas wouldn't have had the money to make the rest. That's the only aspect I grant to the fans when they say the product (art or not, it's a PRODUCT) is "theirs." As in, "he ruined OUR movies." No. He ruined your expectations. Happens a lot in life. The way to make him "pay" for it, as you say he "deserves" it? Don't spend any more money on Star Wars crap.

njb902 wrote:Examples?

-Jacen being made the hero of the New Jedi Order instead of Anakin because, apparently, we’re all too stupid to be able to tell the difference between a guy named Anakin Skywalker and a guy named Anakin Solo. Hell, one could argue that it would have made a hell of a lot better storyline than the one we were given. Of course, Legacy of the Force would show that those involved weren’t so much interested in telling a good story as they were in riling up the fanbase.

-Killing off Mara to make Jacen evil. Forgetting for a moment the fact that Jacen’s descent into madness was preordained, there were literally dozens of ways to do it other than kill off the one good thing post SW lit had going for it (Luke and Mara’s relationship). It hits personally home for me, because I’ve seen this sort of storyline play out in another franchise, and I am no more of a fan of it then than I was at that time.

-After identifying the ship we see in Episode III as the same one we see in Episode IV for five years, the continuity police decide to change it to a ship seen in an obscure video game because it doesn’t look the same (even though they invented an already good retcon to explain it away). And worse of all, publishing it in an obscure SW product no one’s ever going to see.

-After spending the majority of the LOTF plot fighting a dictatorial, power mad, crazy lunatic placed in charge of the main galactic government, one of the final things that series does is make the new person in charge…a dictatorial, power mad, crazy lunatic, which the authors tried a great deal to convince us was a good idea at the time, and instead spend a equal amount of time in the next series showing us how BAD an idea it was.

-Every single novel ever written by Karen Traviss. The Republic Commando series increasingly becomes the outlet for her single-minded, narrow and completely inaccurate view of the SW galaxy, while her third of LOTF (a book series I consider to be not that great at its best) is by far not just the worst of the series, but among the worst SW fiction ever written (and that’s compared to famously odious stinkers like The Crystal Star and Planet of Twilight). And the only thing she manages to accomplish in the novelization of the Not-A-Movie is make Ahsoka even more of a whiny prat than she is in the actual show (then again, writing Jedi is clearly not something Karen likes to do, so maybe that shouldn’t be seen as an accomplishment…)

Darth Bombshell wrote:Karen Traviss sucks.

Shortened that for you. Most of the things on that list were her fault anyway. Karen Traviss is to Star Wars what Stepanie Meyers is to Vampires. And the more I think about that, the more eerily true it seems...

And I choose to believe that Imperial Commando never happened, by the way. In fact, I choose to believe Delta Squad's only appearance outside of the game was their cameo on Clone Wars. making Scorch a whiny emo? And people say Lucas ruined Star Wars...

Darth Bombshell wrote:

njb902 wrote:Examples?

-Jacen being made the hero of the New Jedi Order instead of Anakin because, apparently, we’re all too stupid to be able to tell the difference between a guy named Anakin Skywalker and a guy named Anakin Solo. Hell, one could argue that it would have made a hell of athey better storyline than the one we were given. Of course, Legacy of the Force would show that those involved weren’t so much interested in telling a good story as they were in riling up the fanbase.

-Killing off Mara to make Jacen evil. Forgetting for a moment the fact that Jacen’s descent into madness was preordained, there were literally dozens of ways to do it other than kill off the one good thing post SW lit had going for it (Luke and Mara’s relationship). It hits personally home for me, because I’ve seen this sort of storyline play out in another franchise, and I am Episode of a fan of it then than I was at that time.

-After identifying the ship we see in Episode III as the same one we see in Episode IV for five years, the continuity police decide to change it to a ship seen in an obscure video game because it doesn’t look the same (even though they invented an already good retcon to explain it away). And worse of all, publishing it in an obscure SW product no one’s ever going to see.

-After spending the majority of the LOTF plot fighting a dictatorial, power mad, crazy lunatic placed in charge of the main galactic government, one of the final things that series does is make the new person in charge…a dictatorial, power mad, crazy lunatic, which the authors tried a great deal to convince us was a good idea at the time, and instead spend a equal amount of time in the next series showing us how BAD an idea it was.

-Every single novel ever written by Karen Traviss. The Republic Commando series increasingly becomes the outlet for her single-minded, narrow and completely inaccurate view of the SW galaxy, which her third of LOTF is by far not just the worst of the series, but among the worst SW fiction ever written (and that’s compared to famously odious stinkers like The Crysshe Star and Planet of Twilight). And the only thing she manages to accomplish in the novelization of the Not-A-Movie is make Ahsoka even more of a whiny prat than she is in the actual show (then again, writing Jedi is clearly not something Karen likes to do, so maybe that shouldn’t be seen as an accomplishment…)

1. How did any of that affect the cannon? The rest is just your opinion.

2. Same as 1.

3. Not sure what you're talking about.

4. Same as 1.

5. They messed up here. However Traviss is right about the Jedi Order, using slaves to fight is wrong(in real life or fictionl). But that's just my opinion.

njb902 wrote:They messed up here. However Traviss is right about the Jedi Order, using slaves to fight is wrong(in real life or fictionl). But that's just my opinion.

That's the problem, though, they weren't really slaves, and the Jedi always showed great respect for the Clones...except when Traviss was writing. Consequently it missed the entire point of how Order 66 was supposed to work; it was to develop enough trust that it would override the Jedi ability to sense deception.

Shadowman wrote:

njb902 wrote:They messed up here. However Traviss is right about the Jedi Order, using slaves to fight is wrong(in real life or fictionl). But that's just my opinion.

That's the problem, though, they weren't really slaves, and the Jedi always showed great respect for the Clones...except when hen Traviss was writing. Consequently it missed the entire point of how Order 66 was supposed to work; it was to develop enough trust that it would override the Jedi ability to sense deception.

They seem like slaves to me.

1. They sacrificed hundreds of clones to save 1 or 2 Jedi a few times in the tv show.

2. Look at how the non Jedi treat them.

3. They are all subordinate to Jedi or non clones. Where are the clone generals?

4. Subject to termination for being "defective".

5. Forced to learn to fight from childhood.

6. Offically they don't even have names just numbers.

7. Genetically engineered to fallow orders.

8. Paid for.

I'm sure I could go on, but it's just my opinion.

Edit: I agree about order 66.