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Leaves me to wonder, is 4 issues enough to tell this story?

NightFall wrote:

MYoung23 wrote:....With IDW they seem to be laying the roots of a class struggle and rebellion that had some merit but eventually gets currupted into something perverse and evil. I forgot who said it but someone said that most people become evil by trying to do something they believe is right and good.

Yes, QFT.

I agree, but there is something I don't like about it. It doesn't fit, and I'm not sure why. What "class" is there?

Milanion wrote:

NightFall wrote:

MYoung23 wrote:....With IDW they seem to be laying the roots of a class struggle and rebellion that had some merit but eventually gets currupted into something perverse and evil. I forgot who said it but someone said that most people become evil by trying to do something they believe is right and good.

Yes, QFT.

I agree, but there is something I don't like about it. It doesn't fit, and I'm not sure why. What "class" is there?

Working and ruleing?

Aren't they robots built for specific jobs? Isn't ruling a matter of function in their case? Prowl was built with a sophisticated logic center, so he is involved in higher functions than say Longhaul; which is why Longhaul works in construction and Prowl in intelligence. And even then, they are robots who don't need homes, cars, etc... so what's the difference what job they have - they don't need to provide for themselves? They do the job they were built for.

Just seems they are plugging in a Greco-Roman storyline. That makes more sense with Star Wars, but seems out of place here (to me anyway).

Milanion wrote:Aren't they robots built for specific jobs? Isn't ruling a matter of function in their case? Prowl was built with a sophisticated logic center, so he is involved in higher functions than say Longhaul; which is why Longhaul works in construction and Prowl in intelligence. And even then, they are robots who don't need homes, cars, etc... so what's the difference what job they have - they don't need to provide for themselves? They do the job they were built for.

Just seems they are plugging in a Greco-Roman storyline. That makes more sense with Star Wars, but seems out of place here (to me anyway).

No offence but I think you've missed a huge point of TFs, they're not just robots, they're sentient machines. They DO have to provide for themselves, they do have homes and they do have real beliefes and emotions.

Am I the only one not liking the whole, evilest-of-the-evil being just a stressed out labourer falling in with the wrong crowd?

Uncrazzimatic wrote:

Milanion wrote:Aren't they robots built for specific jobs? Isn't ruling a matter of function in their case? Prowl was built with a sophisticated logic center, so he is involved in higher functions than say Longhaul; which is why Longhaul works in construction and Prowl in intelligence. And even then, they are robots who don't need homes, cars, etc... so what's the difference what job they have - they don't need to provide for themselves? They do the job they were built for.

Just seems they are plugging in a Greco-Roman storyline. That makes more sense with Star Wars, but seems out of place here (to me anyway).

No offence but I think you've missed a huge point of TFs, they're not just robots, they're sentient machines. They DO have to provide for themselves, they do have homes and they do have real beliefes and emotions.

How often have you seen one at their home, or seen them buying something besides fuel?

They are sentient robots, but they are still robots. To have a class struggle over a race that doesn't exhibit many signs of class doesn't make sense to me. The fight for fuel has been about basic survival (in robot terms) not a class war, which would be more about attrition. Without attrition and wealth, where does "class" come into play?

Put otherwise, the only difference between robots is function, which is not the same as class. Function became irrelavant when fuel went short, hence the war. Fuel is the only thing that ever seemed to matter.

Milanion wrote:
How often have you seen one at their home, or seen them buying something besides fuel?

They are sentient robots, but they are still robots. To have a class struggle over a race that doesn't exhibit many signs of class doesn't make sense to me. The fight for fuel has been about basic survival (in robot terms) not a class war, which would be more about attrition. Without attrition and wealth, where does "class" come into play?

Put otherwise, the only difference between robots is function, which is not the same as class. Function became irrelavant when fuel went short, hence the war. Fuel is the only thing that ever seemed to matter.

True for the previous continueities, but this is a new one and we haven't seen their life outside of war at all except for this spotlight, I guess we'll have to wait and see what the rules for this one are.

I must say it was a good read. I cannot wait until the second issue.

Absolutely beautiful artwork, first and foremost. Gotta thank the penciler (Alex Milne), and colorist (Josh Perez) on this one.

Some notes

- IDW's take on Sentinal Prime is made of pure win. What a brilliant design.

- Megatron bashing in that guards head was awesome.

- Once again, the designs for the Cybertronians are awesome. Good to see their world, and characters being fleshed out father than just what has a toy.

Looking forward to #2.

Uncrazzimatic wrote:

Milanion wrote:Aren't they robots built for specific jobs? Isn't ruling a matter of function in their case? Prowl was built with a sophisticated logic center, so he is involved in higher functions than say Longhaul; which is why Longhaul works in construction and Prowl in intelligence. And even then, they are robots who don't need homes, cars, etc... so what's the difference what job they have - they don't need to provide for themselves? They do the job they were built for.

Just seems they are plugging in a Greco-Roman storyline. That makes more sense with Star Wars, but seems out of place here (to me anyway).

No offence but I think you've missed a huge point of TFs, they're not just robots, they're sentient machines. They DO have to provide for themselves, they do have homes and they do have real beliefes and emotions.

That's what thought too, I never thought of Transformers as just functioning robots with no soul, live only to function as a tool, and cool transformations . If that's the only thing all Transformers had to offer, I wouldn't be such a huge fan.

Anyway, I hope I get copy of Orgins today, UK comic store send it out to me on last Thursday.

I personally find this origin story just fine. Nobody starts out evil. I mean, Adolf Hitler was a little kid once.

The difference classes seem to be:

The working class: signified by the mine workers

The aristocracy: signified by the "Senator" and Sentinel Prime. They are the kind of warrior elite that many Greek city states had. Sentinel Prime isnt a politician he is a great warrior which is why he is seen with big a** guns.

The elements of the class struggle are there.

The comment bout workers only being only able to swing an axe.

The comments from the mine workers about how hard they work but they dont feel they get the energy they deserve while "the Senate" stays powered up.

Since I believe they have some kind of democratic/socialist society I look at the comments by the Senator that they will take care of the mine workers and provide them with new jobes in new homes proving that the mine workers are government workers.

We have only seen this small slice of IDW Cybertronian social history. In the Dreamwave incarnation we saw that Transformers had various occupations like landowner, merchant, scientist, etc which implies a middle class. Heck, Prime was portrayed as a middle management paper pusher before being made leader.

I think we will find out eventually that the IDW Transformers society their civilization will be more complex than worker robots that mine energon and elite group that rules over them.

In terms of what the conflict is about this comic I think it isnt unlike many of the issues that has led to revolutions in our own history and that is the working class not getting a fair shake and being mistreated by a ruling class that was benelovent but has gotten corrupt, greedy and out of touch.

I personally love that all the different storys that IDW are putting out seem to be linking together - the one-shots, the infiltration/stormbringer/escalation all seem to jive with each other, and I can see big things in the future.

Parkmania wrote:I personally love that all the different storys that IDW are putting out seem to be linking together - the one-shots, the infiltration/stormbringer/escalation all seem to jive with each other, and I can see big things in the future.

Definitely. IDW is handling Transformers comics brilliantly, right now.

MYoung23 wrote:I think the issue shows that the Transformers had some sort of a democratic/socialist government. A 'senate' implies leaders that are elected while the mines were clearly government controlled. This is backed by how the one robot says that they will re-assign the workers to new jobs and homes. The fact that Sentinal Prime was the leader but still had to answer to the 'Senate' in some way reminds me of a Greek city state.

It also shows to me that just like in the civilizations of today when you have such a large and layered government a bureaucracy develops and with that the possibility or inevitability of corruption.

In regards to robot designs I think it was more about class than ethnicity. The mine robots looked liked they did because they were designed to work in the mines. If you look at what the Autobots said about the mine workers their comments denote a snobbery based on class rather than any ethnic prejudices.

Quite the astute observation. And I think it opens up wonderful new possibilities for the Transformers mythos.

Already in the first issue, we're given a few key details: disenfranchised workers whose unequal treatment and status in society seem to be wraught upon them by a ruling class. A Senate, the seeming beacon of a democratic system of government, is here viewed as a detached body, concerned only with its constituency within a higher socio-economic sphere. And the ominous protrayal of the heroic Autobots as being nothing more than a security force, either employed by or in the service of the Senate, does not bode well, either--after all, just how committed to the ideals of justice and peace can an organization be that deliberately serves a corrupt government?

A few details can also be inferred by what we're given here: these are workers, not prisoners, and yet they seem to be treated no different--and have not been for what we could consider generations. The attempts to phase out their role in society via automation suggests an attempt to remove workers from society in general, as despite Senatorial assurances that "new jobs and homes will be provided," there seems little hope of that being remotely true. Perhaps most importantly, there are likely to be many perspectives on the issue from all classes--as simple to knowing that Prowl one day will follow Optimus, to as complex as the internal struggle Megatron himself seems to be facing.

As for what this last point could imply, well...

With IDW they seem to be laying the roots of a class struggle and rebellion that had some merit but eventually gets currupted into something perverse and evil. I forgot who said it but someone said that most people become evil by trying to do something they believe is right and good.

What if Shockwave, devotee of logic and order, started out as a Senatorial bureaucrat who saw fit to conveniently switch causes when the Decpticon banner was raised? Could Optimus--supposed defender of all sentient life--have been a lowly worker who agreed that the system of oppression was unjust, but sought-out other means and somehow came to rally against the Decepticon ideology? Are the Autobots truly defenders of egalitarian ideals as previously believed, or are they merely struggling to maintain a system that yielded inequality against the movement it gave rise to?

I realize I'm getting carried away here, but for a mini-seires supposedly devoted to Megs, Origins might just serve as Dreamwave's War Within and let us all know just how everything went magnificently wrong.

Plus, hey, we could see cameos (or even full-fledged appearances) by Emirate Xaaron, Alpha Trion, and Lord Straxus at some point. One can hope...

Dick wrote:Am I the only one not liking the whole, evilest-of-the-evil being just a stressed out labourer falling in with the wrong crowd?

Im with you Dick, its a bit concerning to say the least.
However, this is only part 1 of 4, there is plenty of time for them to explain what the hell they are doing.

I really dont care about the sociological ramifications of a Transformer caste system though, i just wanna see Megs crush some autobot heads.
I really hope they dont over-complicate it.

And i totally missed Rumble and Frenzy's involvement (just didnt spot the resemblance - those hazard strips make it hard for me to recognise anyone) which for a cassette-head like me in inexcusable!

I like those comic concepts what tell the story from the past, how all things had begun. That's why I also sad then Dreamwave was no more to contimue the War Within line. I always hope that IDW will continue this project.

Well, I really like it, it's a good interesting read. I saw the "blood thristy" Megatron realized the damage he's capable of, and he was awed, maybe afraid of himself? A confused young strong honest working Megatron? I love it. And the autobots, missunderstood, or a bunch of fat cats? Very intriguing and interesting read anyway. I'm looking forward to the next one.

The guys piloting the shuttles that were turning about were rather seeker-ish. The insignia on their helm were sort of Decepticon-ish. Could it be the symbol is derived from these seeker-ish people?

Simply, I liked the story, but didn't like the art. Far too many panels were cluttered and I found it hard to make out what was going.

I agree that at times, it seemed a bit cluttered in frames, but it wasn't the art that did it. I think the artwork is amazing.

What jar's me at times, is the construction/mine workers are designed too similar, it's extremely hard at times (with the first read through) to tell who is who. For example, features that Megatron has in his waist area, were shared between most of the miners (for reasons unknown).



Things like this wouldn't have done, personally. But, once again, I only had these issues with my first skim through. Upon reading it again, I could follow the panels a bit better.