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Feel free to discuss all aspects of the issue, the thread is open to spoilers now that the comic has come out!

I agree, Hound actually did hit a bit of a chord, and the issue overall felt a lot better than others in the run.

As for Grimlock, I'm pretty sure we'll be seeing him and the Dinobots again in the next issue. After all, he was also possessed by Primus, so I can't see the whole thing developing without him.

Oi! Spoiler alert! Mine hasn't arrived yet

Banjo-Tron wrote:Oi! Spoiler alert! Mine hasn't arrived yet

I did say there were going to be spoilers!

EDIT: Ok, let's do it this way. I changed my message above.

From here on, THERE WILL BE SPOILERS.

Okay...so.... here are my big questions.

1. Why would Acolytes of UNICRON be bringing Galvatron to Primus, when they worship Unicron and want to bring about chaos, which Primus opposes? Which brings me to my next question...

2. Is Primus possessed by the Dark Matrix creature, too? In the last panel, he looks extraordinarily evil, not to mention that both he and Fortress Maximus used the same phrase, almost word for word "one will be all". And, he's not "speaking" in the same clipped manner he was when he was possessing Grimlock.

2. How are the presences of the four senators (including Boltax) possessing Starscream recognizing Jhiaxus at all? He supposedly erased himself from their minds and all Cybertronian records.

4. Not terribly on topic, but since Chromedome has a fairly visible part in this issue...what happens to the Targetmasters? We've seen that Chromedome got his original head back, and Stylor is a regular Nebulan again. We've seen Crosshairs and Kup fire their guns (Pinpointer and Recoil, respectively), and Recoil was the last Nebulan shown in human form (back in the original Marvel run). Why go to the bother of showing what happened to all the old Headmasters' original heads, unless it was to bring Fortress Maximus back into play? It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me that they'd purposely show Chromedome, back in the first issue of this story arc getting his head back, and not even mention the Targetmasters who may want to reintegrate back into regular life again.

So, your thoughts?

Question 4 - I'm not sure, actually.

1 and 2 - I believe that there may be a bigger connection than previously thought between Primus and Unicron, leading the disciples to act as they did. I mean, they're obviously terrified of Primus, which doesn't really make sense, even as a primal type of religious worship (well, ok, a little - but you'd still need some kind of reason to scare them that much: e.g. Zeus was scary because of thunder and lightning).

3 - I took it as being all part of the Underbase, and them all being connected. All of the key players involved seem to know what the others are doing or what the overall plot is, without any contact between each other. That would also mean, though, that Jhiaxus knows what is about to happen, as well. Hrm.

Bounti76 wrote:4. Not terribly on topic, but since Chromedome has a fairly visible part in this issue...what happens to the Targetmasters? We've seen that Chromedome got his original head back, and Stylor is a regular Nebulan again. We've seen Crosshairs and Kup fire their guns (Pinpointer and Recoil, respectively), and Recoil was the last Nebulan shown in human form (back in the original Marvel run). Why go to the bother of showing what happened to all the old Headmasters' original heads, unless it was to bring Fortress Maximus back into play? It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me that they'd purposely show Chromedome, back in the first issue of this story arc getting his head back, and not even mention the Targetmasters who may want to reintegrate back into regular life again.

So, your thoughts?

Yes we saw Kup and Crosshairs fire their guns.........but did we see Pinpointer & Recoil??

I dont think so.I think the targetmasters would have been the easiest to be returned to a normal like life, and would have returned home when the war "ended" in issue 80.

Banjo-Tron wrote:Perhaps not entirely relevant, but it has always bugged me why Fort Max is consistently drawn with a '+' on his forehead. Anyone know where this came from? Since I can't find a reference on the toy...

I always felt the "+" was to denote a status as a part time medic, much like the ones we see on Ratchets shoulders.

if you read the extended marvel bio for Fortmax it speaks about how he converted one of his modes into a repair station.

.........When war came, he did not hesitate to turn his gifts to the ways of combat, adapting one construction base into a repair bay, the other into a battle station.

http://www.ntfa.net/universe/english/in ... ss_Maximus

Rodimus Prime wrote:Well he didn't have it in the cartoon, IIRC, and the toy is based on the cartoon, not the comic.

have you forgotten this is G1 were talking about here???

in g1 , with the possible exception of a few movie characters,the toys came first , the toon models are based on the toys, sometimes very loosely.

and Fort did have it in the toon

Va'al wrote:Question 4 - I'm not sure, actually.

1 and 2 - I believe that there may be a bigger connection than previously thought between Primus and Unicron, leading the disciples to act as they did. I mean, they're obviously terrified of Primus, which doesn't really make sense, even as a primal type of religious worship (well, ok, a little - but you'd still need some kind of reason to scare them that much: e.g. Zeus was scary because of thunder and lightning).

3 - I took it as being all part of the Underbase, and them all being connected. All of the key players involved seem to know what the others are doing or what the overall plot is, without any contact between each other. That would also mean, though, that Jhiaxus knows what is about to happen, as well. Hrm.

What kind of connection do you think there is? I didn't read much, if at all, beyond the Underbase saga, but as I recall, Weren't Primus and Unicron essentially halves of a whole who warred against each other for millennia until Primus tricked Unicron into inhabiting his planet form? I know there are several Primus/Unicron origin stories, but I don't know which one holds true in the Marvel continuity. Maybe Primus is taking a more active role in the race to stop time from unraveling, and will take care of Galvatron himself.

I can see them all being connected via the Underbase, but I thought since Jhiaxus had removed himself from his fellows' memories And the Underbase, that they wouldn't know who he is. I can see the four of them knowing each other, and Starscream, as he absorbed the Underbase, but I can't see how they'd still know Jhiaxus. Plus, I think Jhiaxus doesn't see them coming, because he thinks they have no clue who he is. And the plug at the end for the next issue had a picture of an Underbase posessed Starscream confronting what looked like a fallen Jhiaxus. While that may not be a scene directly taken from the next issue, I think Starscream will have a big part to play in what I see as Jhiaxus' eventual defeat.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Bounti76 wrote:4. Not terribly on topic, but since Chromedome has a fairly visible part in this issue...what happens to the Targetmasters? We've seen that Chromedome got his original head back, and Stylor is a regular Nebulan again. We've seen Crosshairs and Kup fire their guns (Pinpointer and Recoil, respectively), and Recoil was the last Nebulan shown in human form (back in the original Marvel run). Why go to the bother of showing what happened to all the old Headmasters' original heads, unless it was to bring Fortress Maximus back into play? It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me that they'd purposely show Chromedome, back in the first issue of this story arc getting his head back, and not even mention the Targetmasters who may want to reintegrate back into regular life again.

So, your thoughts?

Yes we saw Kup and Crosshairs fire their guns.........but did we see Pinpointer & Recoil??

I dont think so.I think the targetmasters would have been the easiest to be returned to a normal like life, and would have returned home when the war "ended" in issue 80.

We didn't see them, per se, but we have seen Weirdwolf, Skullcruncher and other Headmasters still alive and kicking, which must mean Monzo, Grax, etc. are still alive, but just not shown as individuals. A couple of issues ago, when Fort Max's body was still being constructed, the Nebulan scientist specifically stated that the rest of the Decepticon Headmasters' original heads were still in stasis- so you have to figure any time we've seen a Decepticon Headmaster, we've seen their Nebulan partners, too, just not as individuals.

And the Targetmasters are still binary bonded to their partners, they just have never phsyically combined. So I agree, it could have been easy enough for them to return to Nebulos after the war was over. But my whole point is this: Why go to the trouble of tying up a loose end like "What happened to the Headmasters' Original Heads?" to only show Chromedome and Stylor parting ways agreeably? Why not throw in a quick one or two panel explanation about how the Targetmasters returned to a normal life? I just don't understand if the whole Chromedome/Stylor thing served any real purpose.

What we need is a Rochetervention, like he did for Ironhide in the IDW continuity.

Bounti76 wrote:What kind of connection do you think there is? I didn't read much, if at all, beyond the Underbase saga, but as I recall, Weren't Primus and Unicron essentially halves of a whole who warred against each other for millennia until Primus tricked Unicron into inhabiting his planet form? I know there are several Primus/Unicron origin stories, but I don't know which one holds true in the Marvel continuity. Maybe Primus is taking a more active role in the race to stop time from unraveling, and will take care of Galvatron himself

From what I remember of the original marvel story, Unicron were more like brothers.Both created from the "source".Unicron was first and destroyed the universe that predated this one.

when this universe came into being, Primus was created to protected it.

as to whats going on right now......I dont think thats Primus and never thought it was since the start of re-gen.

I can see them all being connected via the Underbase, but I thought since Jhiaxus had removed himself from his fellows' memories And the Underbase, that they wouldn't know who he is. I can see the four of them knowing each other, and Starscream, as he absorbed the Underbase, but I can't see how they'd still know Jhiaxus.

Why wouldnt the 4 senators that Jhiaxus "killed" not remember him?

The way I see it, when Jaiaxus tried to kill them they ended up joing with the underbase but kept their personas.Now they are working thru starscream.

We didn't see them, per se, but we have seen Weirdwolf, Skullcruncher and other Headmasters still alive and kicking, which must mean Monzo, Grax, etc. are still alive, but just not shown as individuals. A couple of issues ago, when Fort Max's body was still being constructed, the Nebulan scientist specifically stated that the rest of the Decepticon Headmasters' original heads were still in stasis- so you have to figure any time we've seen a Decepticon Headmaster, we've seen their Nebulan partners, too, just not as individuals.

not to sound rude...but why post any of this.We are talking "TARGETMASTERS" not headmasters.

And the Targetmasters are still binary bonded to their partners, they just have never phsyically combined.

Not in the same way as head or powermasters.Bottomline is the target masters bonded with their exo-suits, not so much their partners.

So I agree, it could have been easy enough for them to return to Nebulos after the war was over. But my whole point is this: Why go to the trouble of tying up a loose end like "What happened to the Headmasters' Original Heads?" to only show Chromedome and Stylor parting ways agreeably? Why not throw in a quick one or two panel explanation about how the Targetmasters returned to a normal life? I just don't understand if the whole Chromedome/Stylor thing served any real purpose.

I feel that the since it seems so easy to return the TM's to a normal life, the writers feel it would be a waste of time to touch on he subject.

on the other hand, I think the neglecting to mention anything about powermasters is a bigger error.

Bounti76 wrote:Okay...so.... here are my big questions.

1. Why would Acolytes of UNICRON be bringing Galvatron to Primus, when they worship Unicron and want to bring about chaos, which Primus opposes? Which brings me to my next question...

2. Is Primus possessed by the Dark Matrix creature, too? In the last panel, he looks extraordinarily evil, not to mention that both he and Fortress Maximus used the same phrase, almost word for word "one will be all". And, he's not "speaking" in the same clipped manner he was when he was possessing Grimlock.

Good questions and obviously this is part of a mystery still unfolding. Forgive me, gonna go on a bit of a stream of consciousness...

Right now, Primus' behaviour is entirely contradictory. He threw Hot Rod through time / zero space / whatever to charge him for a mission (both physically and mentally) that identified 4 antagonists.

One of whom, Galvaton, he now he seems to have subjugated himself, even thwarting Rodimus' own attempts to apprehend him.

Was the plan always to throw Rodimus into the mix, ostensibly at odds with his own, cosmic intentions? Was 'power tripping' his ego, as Kup puts it, essential to ensuring Jhiaxus' crushing victory? Jhiaxus too cast doubt on Primus' character almost as soon as he was introduced.

Or has something since changed? Speaking of change, no pun intended, as you've said even Primus' vocal patterns have altered since that encounter. Maybe some influence of Unicron is now pervasive. We know he may be in the mix from Hot Rod's vision 10 issues ago..... but that last speech seems to indicate that that dynamic is now irrelevant..?

And yeah, the inversion of 'Til All Are One' both Primus and Dark Matrix Max have adopted. Fascinating!

Great, great stuff from Furman, can't wait for the next issue.

Actually, one gripe: I don't know quite how Jetfire has sprouted a new skill set(s).

His G1 Marvel persona was not this science and military strategy polymath, Simon Furman has obviously just carried them over from his Dreamwave and IDW runs. Obviously SF has another new favourite to sit alongside Grimlock... presumably he's taken Galvatron's place given the de-powering and subsequent series of beatings suffered recently.

Rodimus Prime wrote:And I think by now it's OK to post spoilers, but just to be on the safe side, I think Rodimus wasn't really surrendering, he was just trying to either get close to Jhiaxus personally to take the fight to him, or he has some other plan than Jhiaxus is too arrogant to realize Rodimus can formulate.

All due respect, RP, that's maybe wishful thinking, me finks

It's likely that Starscream's the key to Rodimus' salvation there, as observed in an earlier post

Quint wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:And I think by now it's OK to post spoilers, but just to be on the safe side, I think Rodimus wasn't really surrendering, he was just trying to either get close to Jhiaxus personally to take the fight to him, or he has some other plan than Jhiaxus is too arrogant to realize Rodimus can formulate.

All due respect, RP, that's maybe wishful thinking, me finks

It's likely that Starscream's the key to Rodimus' salvation there, as observed in an earlier post

You may be right, it's all speculation until the next issue. But I am sticking with it, I don't think Rodimus would surrender just like that even with the casualties the Autobots have suffered, not unless he was planning something. Whether that plan is successful or not, is another story. I'll say that Starscream will have at least something to do with the outcome, the cover of the next issue already foreshadows that, but whether it's the final blow to Jhiaxus or not, who knows. I still think there will be another showdown between Rodimus and Jhiaxus.

Quint wrote:Actually, one gripe: I don't know quite how Jetfire has sprouted a new skill set(s).

His G1 Marvel persona was not this science and military strategy polymath, Simon Furman has obviously just carried them over from his Dreamwave and IDW runs.

thats not entirely accurate.

Just look twards his marvel bio and it speaks of his devotion to scientific research.Even thou he was basically a new born he was still given a high rank, high enough that he was considered one of the "leaders" that could be entrusted in picking the next autobot leader after Prime died.

He lead the aerialbots on the first attack on underbased powered starscream.

in the uk run, he took command when prime went missing.

what were seeing now just seems like an extension of what we saw then.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
Just look twards his marvel bio and it speaks of his devotion to scientific research.Even thou he was basically a new born he was still given a high rank, high enough that he was considered one of the "leaders" that could be entrusted in picking the next autobot leader after Prime died.

He lead the aerialbots on the first attack on underbased powered starscream.

in the uk run, he took command when prime went missing.

what were seeing now just seems like an extension of what we saw then.

You've got me on the bio, fair enough, although that was hardly ever played out in any Marvel narrative.

Made me chuckle though, the three examples you've cited were at best failures and at worst catastrophes, each of them

What a bot.

Quint wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
Just look twards his marvel bio and it speaks of his devotion to scientific research.Even thou he was basically a new born he was still given a high rank, high enough that he was considered one of the "leaders" that could be entrusted in picking the next autobot leader after Prime died.

He lead the aerialbots on the first attack on underbased powered starscream.

in the uk run, he took command when prime went missing.

what were seeing now just seems like an extension of what we saw then.

You've got me on the bio, fair enough, although that was hardly ever played out in any Marvel narrative.

Made me chuckle though, the three examples you've cited were at best failures and at worst catastrophes, each of them

What a bot.

well he was a baby