Jaynz wrote:Mkall wrote:Like him or hate him, you cannot deny the fact he's taken Transformers to a new level of popularity, and has turned it into the - as you put it - POPULAR/POP CULTURE WORLDWIDE FRANCHISE. You want to argue the order in which these people get inducted into the Hall of Fame? Well that's an entirely different debate.
The point is that IT ALREADY WAS A WORLDWIDE FRANCHISE that was ALREADY WORTH BILLIONS OF DOLLARS.
Yes, and Bay expanded it even further than that. He singlehandedly increased Hasbro's Transformers revenue by 4 times in 2007.
Jaynz"There are a lot of people who made that happen, after all. And, hell, I think Shia LaBouf deserves the nod a hell of a lot more than Spielberg that basically signed a couple of contracts and said "Yeah, Paramount wants this movie done. I need to talk to George about this Shia kid anyway for something else I'm doing."[/quote]
I agree that Shia should get it too. We can agree on that too. Maybe next year?
[quote="Jaynz wrote:
I think you may have misinterpretted my point. I meant Post-G2, where there were no figures on the shelves and no one knew if there was ever going to be another TF Line. Except for after Beast Machines, which was another dead time, it's been pretty much a straight production of Transformers lines, give or take a few months for line changes.[/quote]
Beast Machines flopped but it wasn't a 'dead time', and you most certainly DID try to say that there was 'nothing between G2 and Micheal Bay'. I'm not letting you backpedal out of an outright lie like that. Heck, you did it AGAIN with your claim that "we were just copying Japan" ... yet Beast Wars and Beast Machines were
Canadian shows with
American toys. It would take years for Japan to catch up.[/quote]
Now this is getting pedantic...
Dead time is time between toy lines. Unlike today, there were YEARS before a line ended and a new line began, these times were between G2 and Beast Wars and Beast Machines and Robots in disguise. To suggest that I'm ignoring everything between G2 and Michael Bay is insulting my intelligence and my 600+ figure collection of Beast Wars, RiD, Armada, Energon, Cybertron, Classics, Universe and other miscellaneous figures. Twist my words if you want, but I've laid out my intent with them and you can either take it at face value or see some hidden meaning that somehow contradicts your viewpoint; I don't care.
Now it seems I have to explain my statements about Japan... You know what? I don't have to. The proof is there in Car Robots (Robots in Disguise), Micron Legend (Armada), Superlink (Energon), and Galaxy Force (Cybertron). It took 7 years between the end of Beast Machines and the Beginning of Animated for a Transformers show to be produced for American audiences. Tack onto that the years that Transformers only exists in Japan pre-Beast Wars and there's a number higher than 15.
I get that you're a fan of the movies, and more power to ya, but you do NOT get to make up your facts to support his ascension.
I don't make up facts, I'm just not used to explaining them all in this much detail. Actually I'm not a huge fan of the movies. I'm simply arguing Bay's impact on the franchise. I get that you DON'T like the movies, but don't let personal oppinion cloud your judgement.
Covenant wrote:Mkall wrote:Covenant wrote:Better? How about here first? How about the reason Transformers is here at all? How about the very reasons the POPULAR/POP CULTURE WORLDWIDE FRANCHISE made it long enough for Bay to jump onboard? What I hate is how quick some people are to dismiss all things past to over protect the new. It was never a pop-culture thing before the movies came out.
You're using a weird term that was never associated with Transformers before the latest movies: Popular Culture.
That's actually the first denial of such of thing I've seen in my thirty years.
It's just the fact I've NEVER seen that phrase mixed in with the Transformers Brand before the Bay films. If it's out there and I've been too blind to see it, I do retract this statement with apologies.
Now that this has been suitibly derailed, if you guys have any responses to this, please PM me, or add me to MSN (see the icon below my name) and I'd be more than happy to discuss my oppinions and viewpoints with an open mind.