Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

Blurrz wrote:Booooooooooooooo. This is terrible. This is like releasing the Henkei seekers.

LINK


(sorry, could't resist )


Yes, it is allways terrible to release a set for those who couldn't afford the trip to a convention to the other end of the world and make it available not only through scalpers.

I disagree with people who say that Fans Project should've communicated this or Fans Project "should be made to pay" etc etc. If they were dishonest, then fine. But there's no saying they were, or this is a decision that wasn't made very recently.

I buy the toys because I like them. It's nice if they increase in value, but like any "investment" the potential for decrease is always there. I paid $200+ for an original eHobby Sunstorm only to now see reissues that are going to go for half that (and I immediately took it out of the box and played with it, thereby killing much of the value right there anyway). Same deal with my G1 Predaking which I pieced together years ago off eBay and wound up ultimately paying far more than the reissue sets are now selling for. And I just paid $250 for G1 Star Saber and if that gets reissued too, then the value of that toy will drop for me as well.

[shrug] There is no guarantee that any investment will result in a net gain in value. And people who get all sore because the value of their BotCon seekers are dropping in price because of the Henkei ones, well those people are being really selfish and are essentially demanding that toy manufacturers should give greater consideration to collectors' investment than in producing and releasing toys that their fans will enjoy.

gleek wrote:I disagree with people who say that Fans Project should've communicated this or Fans Project "should be made to pay" etc etc. If they were dishonest, then fine. But there's no saying they were, or this is a decision that wasn't made very recently.

I buy the toys because I like them. It's nice if they increase in value, but like any "investment" the potential for decrease is always there. I paid $200+ for an original eHobby Sunstorm only to now see reissues that are going to go for half that (and I immediately took it out of the box and played with it, thereby killing much of the value right there anyway). Same deal with my G1 Predaking which I pieced together years ago off eBay and wound up ultimately paying far more than the reissue sets are now selling for. And I just paid $250 for G1 Star Saber and if that gets reissued too, then the value of that toy will drop for me as well.

[shrug] There is no guarantee that any investment will result in a net gain in value. And people who get all sore because the value of their BotCon seekers are dropping in price because of the Henkei ones, well those people are being really selfish and are essentially demanding that toy manufacturers should give greater consideration to collectors' investment than in producing and releasing toys that their fans will enjoy.

I disagree with some of your points, but not all. I agree that these aren't investment products; They're toys. I could care less how much the value increases or decreases after I buy them. I don't agree with false advertising, which is what this is. If it's an exclusive, then make it an exclusive. Don't go causing a tizzy for everyone clawing at your product paying double what it would have cost normally (at the convention), Then after the dust settles, mention that they going to see a general release. The demand would not have been there had they been upfront. That's my beef. Example, Shadow city commander. He's still warming shelves of most online retailers.

BWDinobot wrote:I think this is great news should it be true. Are people going to be mad? Of course. But we as fans should have a better outlook on this. If Powered Commander is to see a wider release it allows more fans to obtain a great set. Yeah it sucks that so many paid so much for the TFCon release. However that great response to the set helped to prompt a possible mass release so on that thought everyone that purchased it helped to bring it to fans that could not obtain it. I would say thank you to those fans. I bought the botcon 2007 set(mainly for the seekers) none of my fellow fans could afford it. But when the Henkei versions were annouced I said great now my friends and fellow fans can complete the seeker sets. Bottom line it always sucks when you feel you overpaid or got cheated out of the exclusiveness of a figure but I dont buy my TF's with value or exclusiveness in mind I buy them because I am a fan of Transformers.

So it's ok to lie to people as long as it benefits more in the long run? Then why lie?

Normally I'm on the side of having the convention exclusive and getting pissed because I was lied to. This time I'm on the other side, not having the convention exclusive and now being able to get a mass release of it. And I still say it is BS. I mean, this is even worse then the seekers because at least it was another company (Takara vs. Hasbro) releasing it, but this is the same company doing it within a matter of weeks!

Seriously, if I went to that convention, I'd ask for my money back and would return the figure.

Chaoslock wrote:Yes, it is allways terrible to release a set for those who couldn't afford the trip to a convention to the other end of the world and make it available not only through scalpers.

That's why it's labeled an exclusive. Don't call it an exclusive if it will be released elsewhere, but I forgot, being a fan of Transformers make you entitled to having every one.

THE HELL?

we were promised "there are no plans to reproduce this deco once the convention is over"

I am furious!

GetterDragun wrote:
... being a fan of Transformers make you entitled to having every one.

LOL! Man, that was funny (no sarcasm, here)...very nice..

I'm also furious.

I had to pay 300 Canadian to get one of these to the UK only to find I could get one for half that just 2 weeks after the Con. Mine won't even be here for another 3 weeks.

Exclusive should mean exclusive. At least the Henkai Thrust and Dirge were different toolings.

A bit of extra chrome, which I would have prefered, is NOT enough to make this a different product.

WTF@TFW say how these are such great guys. This kind of flies in the face of that.

I hope that there is a reasonable explanation for this. I think a follow up interview would be VERY interesting. Vangelis???

I know others will now get to obtain this repaint, and that's great for them. But so could have I (at half the price) if I had not been misled.

hmm... wait... on the kapow toys site it says:


"PRE-ORDER FansProject Powered Commander - Wide Release - At last! the elusive TFCon Powered Armour is available for less than an arm and a leg. It is a recolour of the City Commander and is designed for Henkei or Classics Optimus Prime, this version aswell as being a recolour comes with added missile launchers also has needly added chrome detailing to the chest area so it fits in with henkei - this is a pre-order due for late May release"

It does not state its a japanese version, it says its the "elusive TFCon Powered Armour"
its not the first store to sell the exclusive Kooltoys did too, the TFcon guys said stores can order them aswell but they must get them from the convention and that there is no limit to how many you can buy.

my guess is that Kapowtoys bought the left over commanders.

but where did you find that image describing the japanese ver?
i did not see it on their site. and it doesnt look very official, some pictures are placed on top of words.

I think we may be making up a rumor here...

"Exclusive." I do not think that word means what you think it means.

As it stands, Fansproject has said nothing so far from I have seen. BBTS and the other regular suppliers have nothing showing and all this is based on one website who might have some special situation they set up with Fansproject.

Regardless, there seems to be a lot of people ready to grab the pitchforks and torches, without waiting for the full details to emerge. Especially if Fansproject have made specific claims as to how they would use Powered Commander, which this flies in the face of, as there is no way this could not have been in development for only the last week or so.

I fully agree if this is almost an identical package with slightly different paint and missing the TFCon sticker, than there is some explanation that buyers need to see and fast, but at this point lets hold off forming a mob until more details are released.

GreenLantern of Cybertron wrote:
my guess is that Kapowtoys bought the left over commanders.

The flaw in that theory is that the tfcon ver. has no chrome.

Man this kinda sucks. I paid some good cash to get mine thinking it was the only way you could get this set, as it was clearly advertised, and now they seem to be planning a Henkei set that may be cheaper??? WTF? At least have it cost the same. Damm.

this was posted by FP_Day (presumably someone who works at fans project) on tfw2005.com's thread about this:

"First of all THANK YOU for those who supporting us since the beginning and
we are SORRY if we disappoint anyone in anyway.

Re-paint were never our first intention. Every day we receive e-mail asking if
we are/can re-release CJ upgrade kit,CC and PC. We tried to improve our
work every time. People might say/think that we only change a little here
and off we go and have something new to make more money. It take us a long
time to design and do color tuning...etc for every project. Because we are just
a small fans group. We need to pay to have some of the work done for us
and most of the thing cost us starting at the thousand dollar mark. For
example: the plug cover include with SC. No one will display the SC backward.
So which mean "most" people will just leave them in the bag. But if there a chance
which make ONE fan who mind the hole in the back. We will do it and make it prefect.
Being a true fan and collector. We take every small parts carefully.
Another example is the power-cube case which only available with the TFcon
PC. We only included 7 power-cube in the case. WHY? Because in the
instruction booklet one power-cube were use.

For the mold:
Yes, it's destroy. This is between agreement by different party to
prevent counterfeit and to maintain a high quality control. Every project
start new. That's why we are making small to no money for every project.
Even if we make some money, they will all end up for the next project.

Seeing the price goes higher everyday:
We do feel happy in the beginning knowing how much people like our project, But
it upset us more in a way. Not that we should release more in the first
place. Not that we should sell it higher in the first place. It is that
knowing people has to pay more or can no longer afford to enjoy our work.

Please, we are Fansproject. All project are start by Fans for Fans. If
anyone has comment please let us know as we are trying to learn and improve. "


I couldnt tell if he said its being re-released or not, but i heard "For the mold:
Yes, it's destroy" in there.

heres a link to the post: http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/classics-11/fansproject-powered-commander-to-be-reissued-with-chrome-167539/page4.html

GreenLantern of Cybertron wrote:this was posted by FP_Day (presumably someone who works at fans project) on tfw2005.com's thread about this:

"First of all THANK YOU for those who supporting us since the beginning and
we are SORRY if we disappoint anyone in anyway.

Re-paint were never our first intention. Every day we receive e-mail asking if
we are/can re-release CJ upgrade kit,CC and PC. We tried to improve our
work every time. People might say/think that we only change a little here
and off we go and have something new to make more money. It take us a long
time to design and do color tuning...etc for every project. Because we are just
a small fans group. We need to pay to have some of the work done for us
and most of the thing cost us starting at the thousand dollar mark. For
example: the plug cover include with SC. No one will display the SC backward.
So which mean "most" people will just leave them in the bag. But if there a chance
which make ONE fan who mind the hole in the back. We will do it and make it prefect.
Being a true fan and collector. We take every small parts carefully.
Another example is the power-cube case which only available with the TFcon
PC. We only included 7 power-cube in the case. WHY? Because in the
instruction booklet one power-cube were use.

For the mold:
Yes, it's destroy. This is between agreement by different party to
prevent counterfeit and to maintain a high quality control. Every project
start new. That's why we are making small to no money for every project.
Even if we make some money, they will all end up for the next project.

Seeing the price goes higher everyday:
We do feel happy in the beginning knowing how much people like our project, But
it upset us more in a way. Not that we should release more in the first
place. Not that we should sell it higher in the first place. It is that
knowing people has to pay more or can no longer afford to enjoy our work.

Please, we are Fansproject. All project are start by Fans for Fans. If
anyone has comment please let us know as we are trying to learn and improve. "


I couldnt tell if he said its being re-released or not, but i heard "For the mold:
Yes, it's destroy" in there.

heres a link to the post: http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/classics-11/fansproject-powered-commander-to-be-reissued-with-chrome-167539/page4.html

I have the zippo closed-up for now, but the torch is still ready to burn I'd still like to see a follow-up interview back here on Seibertron, though.

For the people who don't realize the gravity of this.. let's just put it in another context...

Let's take Botcon 09 Kup and his Wings of Honor buddies. I'm pretty sure many people here would go to the 'Con simply just to get the figures.. either to sell them on the secondary market for massive dollars, or have them as they are 'exclusives'. If they were released on the secondary market and not Botcon, as basic Universe repaints, I'm pretty sure their popularity would be really low. No one really likes repaints. But that isn't the case. They are exclusives. So, what if Henkei released Kup and his Wings of Honor buddies? I'm pretty sure most of the people who went to Botcon would be livid.

It has barely been 3 weeks since TFCON, and we then we all find out that Powered Commander will be released by Henkei as a mass-release. There are people who bought the toy as an exclusive. They are pissed as hell. There are people who used Powered Commander as an investment. They are pissed as hell. There are people who went to the TFCon from other countries other than Canada, probably just got their passport renewed or acquired.. and this is what they get? They are probably pissed as hell too. Then there's a majority of people who bought Powered Commander off the secondary market. Wow, they are pretty angry too.

While 97% of the Transformers fandom have yet to acquire Powered Commander, we still have to respect the people who got Powered Commander from TFCon, and realize that FansProject did not pull a good move, they pulled a bitch move. The Henkei Powered Commander will be different from TFCon, it's still a Powered Commander, and still a low blow at getting money.

Blurrz wrote:For the people who don't realize the gravity of this.. let's just put it in another context...

Let's take Botcon 09 Kup and his Wings of Honor buddies. I'm pretty sure many people here would go to the 'Con simply just to get the figures.. either to sell them on the secondary market for massive dollars, or have them as they are 'exclusives'. If they were released on the secondary market and not Botcon, as basic Universe repaints, I'm pretty sure their popularity would be really low. No one really likes repaints. But that isn't the case. They are exclusives. So, what if Henkei released Kup and his Wings of Honor buddies? I'm pretty sure most of the people who went to Botcon would be livid.

It has barely been 3 weeks since TFCON, and we then we all find out that Powered Commander will be released by Henkei as a mass-release. There are people who bought the toy as an exclusive. They are pissed as hell. There are people who used Powered Commander as an investment. They are pissed as hell. There are people who went to the TFCon from other countries other than Canada, probably just got their passport renewed or acquired.. and this is what they get? They are probably pissed as hell too. Then there's a majority of people who bought Powered Commander off the secondary market. Wow, they are pretty angry too.

While 97% of the Transformers fandom have yet to acquire Powered Commander, we still have to respect the people who got Powered Commander from TFCon, and realize that FansProject did not pull a good move, they pulled a bitch move. The Henkei Powered Commander will be different from TFCon, it's still a Powered Commander, and still a low blow at getting money.

If people want to pay a **** load of money for "exclusives", that is their problem. I don't see the value of getting a $10 ugly toy for $200 so I would never buy it. If I can get a different version that is cheaper, then hell yeah I'll get it. If they still love their "exclusives" so much they shouldn't care how much they paid.

omega666 wrote:
If people want to pay a **** load of money for "exclusives", that is their problem. I don't see the value of getting a $10 ugly toy for $200 so I would never buy it. If I can get a different version that is cheaper, then hell yeah I'll get it. If they still love their "exclusives" so much they shouldn't care how much they paid.

How can anyone love an exclusive when it's released to the masses! FansProject makes the exclusive null and void.

Blurrz wrote:For the people who don't realize the gravity of this.. let's just put it in another context...

Let's take Botcon 09 Kup and his Wings of Honor buddies. I'm pretty sure many people here would go to the 'Con simply just to get the figures.. either to sell them on the secondary market for massive dollars, or have them as they are 'exclusives'. If they were released on the secondary market and not Botcon, as basic Universe repaints, I'm pretty sure their popularity would be really low. No one really likes repaints. But that isn't the case. They are exclusives. So, what if Henkei released Kup and his Wings of Honor buddies? I'm pretty sure most of the people who went to Botcon would be livid.

It has barely been 3 weeks since TFCON, and we then we all find out that Powered Commander will be released by Henkei as a mass-release. There are people who bought the toy as an exclusive. They are pissed as hell. There are people who used Powered Commander as an investment. They are pissed as hell. There are people who went to the TFCon from other countries other than Canada, probably just got their passport renewed or acquired.. and this is what they get? They are probably pissed as hell too. Then there's a majority of people who bought Powered Commander off the secondary market. Wow, they are pretty angry too.

While 97% of the Transformers fandom have yet to acquire Powered Commander, we still have to respect the people who got Powered Commander from TFCon, and realize that FansProject did not pull a good move, they pulled a bitch move. The Henkei Powered Commander will be different from TFCon, it's still a Powered Commander, and still a low blow at getting money.

It's clearly become "Buyer Beware" as far as exclusives are concerned. IF this gets confirmed and this is released, it unfortunately means that more often than not, loopholes will be exploited to mass release a product in the limited-edition exclusive is popular enough.

I'm so conflicted on this one. On one side, if I can get it, I will. But on the other, I feel for the people here who made the effort the get this already, one way or another.

[http://www.tfcon.ca/

Latest TFcon News: May 11th - We at TFcon wish to extend an apology to any attendees or fans who feel slighted by recent events concerning the release of a Henkei Commander Set. We at TFcon were unaware of any intention of FansProject to release the set (with or without changes), and had been informed that this colour scheme would be exclusive to our convention. We regret that this is not the case, and hope that the actions of FansProject will not reflect poorly on our show, as they are outside of our control.]

Ahhh, I'm so conflicted. Suspect business ethics..but great looking figures!

Are we sure this is a mass release? How many sets were confirmed?

Either way, my Powered Commander has huge Tfcon stickers on the side and the Energon Suitcase. I'm sure this new "Henkei Commander" won't be including those.

omega666 wrote:

Blurrz wrote:For the people who don't realize the gravity of this.. let's just put it in another context...

Let's take Botcon 09 Kup and his Wings of Honor buddies. I'm pretty sure many people here would go to the 'Con simply just to get the figures.. either to sell them on the secondary market for massive dollars, or have them as they are 'exclusives'. If they were released on the secondary market and not Botcon, as basic Universe repaints, I'm pretty sure their popularity would be really low. No one really likes repaints. But that isn't the case. They are exclusives. So, what if Henkei released Kup and his Wings of Honor buddies? I'm pretty sure most of the people who went to Botcon would be livid.

It has barely been 3 weeks since TFCON, and we then we all find out that Powered Commander will be released by Henkei as a mass-release. There are people who bought the toy as an exclusive. They are pissed as hell. There are people who used Powered Commander as an investment. They are pissed as hell. There are people who went to the TFCon from other countries other than Canada, probably just got their passport renewed or acquired.. and this is what they get? They are probably pissed as hell too. Then there's a majority of people who bought Powered Commander off the secondary market. Wow, they are pretty angry too.

While 97% of the Transformers fandom have yet to acquire Powered Commander, we still have to respect the people who got Powered Commander from TFCon, and realize that FansProject did not pull a good move, they pulled a bitch move. The Henkei Powered Commander will be different from TFCon, it's still a Powered Commander, and still a low blow at getting money.

If people want to pay a **** load of money for "exclusives", that is their problem. I don't see the value of getting a $10 ugly toy for $200 so I would never buy it. If I can get a different version that is cheaper, then hell yeah I'll get it. If they still love their "exclusives" so much they shouldn't care how much they paid.

Most people don't care how much they paid for the exclusive, they care that they paid that money because it was exclusive.

I also don't uderstand how people whine that they can't have the exclusive at a regular price when there is a regular repaint available. After all exclusives are just "a $10 ugly toy" with a different paint scheme and a slight remold sometimes, so why do people make such a fuss about exclusives not making a mass release?

mzh wrote:[http://www.tfcon.ca/

Latest TFcon News: May 11th - We at TFcon wish to extend an apology to any attendees or fans who feel slighted by recent events concerning the release of a Henkei Commander Set. We at TFcon were unaware of any intention of FansProject to release the set (with or without changes), and had been informed that this colour scheme would be exclusive to our convention. We regret that this is not the case, and hope that the actions of FansProject will not reflect poorly on our show, as they are outside of our control.]

Ahhh, I'm so conflicted. Suspect business ethics..but great looking figures!

Well, that's a good reply and it sucks for them to rely on a supplier that didn't hold up their end of the bargain. Especially when they're located in a place where agreements don't matter so much.

I honestly don't care about this. If all that's new to this is chrome instead of silver paint, then it's pointless to me. If this version, provided it's real, had a different paint scheme, like power master Prime instead of diaclone, I might be interested.

Besides, I already use Henkei Prime for the PC armor. I find it looks better than Classics Prime since:

I took a silver sharpie to the upper arms.
The silver on the armor and the figure matches very well.

Seems more and more likely this exclusive is getting a mainstream release. I don't think FansProject will ever get a convention exclusive again, after this stunt. Their name has been soiled as well, IMO, at least for me. I've made me last purchase from them.

More for everyone else, I guess.