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megatronus wrote:Also, possible future 2-pack would probably be:

Slugfest & Overkill
Beast Box & Squawk Talk

Where would Ratbat fit into this scheme?

Well, still not holding my breath, but two-packs are the Takara tape release strategy. I'd rather hold out for a Hasbro release, and perhaps if Hasbro's less worried about Soundblaster, they could give us a three-pack of Slugfest, Overkill, and Ratbat and I'd be a happy guy.

(I'll admit I went third-party on Beast Box & Squawk Talk... I figured, as characters who never appeared in the cartoon, there'd be less of a chance of seeing them. But if they got a proper Masterpiece release that was made available by Hasbro, I suppose I could transfer the third-party ones to my Classics collection.)

I think seller's in the secondary market can hear everyone's cry for Ratbat and not having to buy Soundblaster to get him. I'm sure we will see people selling Ratbat solo at wonderful jacked-up prices.

I think seller's in the secondary market can hear everyone's cry for Ratbat and not having to buy Soundblaster to get him. I'm sure we will see people selling Ratbat solo at wonderful jacked-up prices.

Yotsuyasan wrote:

megatronus wrote:Also, possible future 2-pack would probably be:

Slugfest & Overkill
Beast Box & Squawk Talk

Where would Ratbat fit into this scheme?

Well, still not holding my breath, but two-packs are the Takara tape release strategy. I'd rather hold out for a Hasbro release, and perhaps if Hasbro's less worried about Soundblaster, they could give us a three-pack of Slugfest, Overkill, and Ratbat and I'd be a happy guy.

(I'll admit I went third-party on Beast Box & Squawk Talk... I figured, as characters who never appeared in the cartoon, there'd be less of a chance of seeing them. But if they got a proper Masterpiece release that was made available by Hasbro, I suppose I could transfer the third-party ones to my Classics collection.)

Ratbat & Enemy two pack would work for me.

Hello Ratbat. Your looking totally awesome today.

RiddlerJ wrote:

Yotsuyasan wrote:

megatronus wrote:Also, possible future 2-pack would probably be:

Slugfest & Overkill
Beast Box & Squawk Talk

Where would Ratbat fit into this scheme?

Well, still not holding my breath, but two-packs are the Takara tape release strategy. I'd rather hold out for a Hasbro release, and perhaps if Hasbro's less worried about Soundblaster, they could give us a three-pack of Slugfest, Overkill, and Ratbat and I'd be a happy guy.

(I'll admit I went third-party on Beast Box & Squawk Talk... I figured, as characters who never appeared in the cartoon, there'd be less of a chance of seeing them. But if they got a proper Masterpiece release that was made available by Hasbro, I suppose I could transfer the third-party ones to my Classics collection.)

Ratbat & Enemy two pack would work for me.

They'd probably give us Enemy and Wingthing
Daresay even, the Japan exclusive Dino-Cassettes?

RiddlerJ wrote:How the heck does Ratbat transform? It looks like his torso and head flap over to the cassette side but I can't quite figure it out.

The wings fold back, the tips are turned towards the sides. Then the chest and head flip foward with the feet towards the back. The backpack flips up, the gold parts swivel forward and the boosters flip into the sides

I'm thinking Ratbat is based on his All Hail Megatron #5 design. I'm sure the designers could have hidden the cassette deco on the front of the bat if they'd wanted to.

megatronus wrote:You can make the opposite argument: they included Ratbat with Soundblaster in order to move units of Soundblaster, which has 0 development cost. That revenue should more than counterbalance the cost of developing a wee little thing like Ratbat.

Also, possible future 2-pack would probably be:

Slugfest & Overkill
Beast Box & Squawk Talk

Where would Ratbat fit into this scheme?

How is that the "opposite argument?"
1) I didn't deny the fact that they likely included Ratbat with Soundblaster to create more interest in the figure than there would be if he came alone or with one of the cassettes we've already gotten. That has no baring on whether or not they will also release Ratbat separately in the future....

2) The fact that Soundblaster is a recolor may mean that it has 0 cost for R&D, but it will still cost money to produce and ship, and the development and production costs of Ratbat himself I'm sure are also figured into the price of the figure. Either way, I don't see how that has anything to do with the mold being released at a later time, either.... The people who are going to buy SB will buy him...those of us who won't buy him won't... How much it costs Takara to develop the figure isn't going to effect that one way or the other.

You also assume they're somehow unable or unwilling to release Ratbat on his own, or in a three-pack based on the fact that they've released two two-packs? They make the packs, my friend, they can include as many or as little in them as they wish to. If for some strange reason he MUST be in a two-pack, they could easily make a recolor of any of the other cassettes we already have for little to no cost to sell with him....

They know people want Ratbat. We've been asking since MP Soundwave came out.
They know some people will buy Soundblaster to get him,
but they also know many will NOT buy Soundblaster just to get Ratbat.

It makes no sense for them to just ignore that money, and perfect sense for them to collect that money with a separate release in a couple months. One approach intentionally forgoes a large section of their customers, while the other approach insures that anyone who wants him can get him, but that those who want him immediately are going to pay substantially more to get him with Soundblaster.

Really doesn't seem very complicated, if you ask me.
This is how business works...
If there is demand for their product, which there clearly is, what possible reason could they have to refuse to supply it?

RiddlerJ wrote:
Ratbat & Enemy two pack would work for me.

I'll take that, yes please!

Rotoraptor wrote:

megatronus wrote:You can make the opposite argument: they included Ratbat with Soundblaster in order to move units of Soundblaster, which has 0 development cost. That revenue should more than counterbalance the cost of developing a wee little thing like Ratbat.

Also, possible future 2-pack would probably be:

Slugfest & Overkill
Beast Box & Squawk Talk

Where would Ratbat fit into this scheme?

How is that the "opposite argument?"
1) I didn't deny the fact that they likely included Ratbat with Soundblaster to create more interest in the figure than there would be if he came alone or with one of the cassettes we've already gotten. That has no baring on whether or not they will also release Ratbat separately in the future....

2) The fact that Soundblaster is a recolor may mean that it has 0 cost for R&D, but it will still cost money to produce and ship, and the development and production costs of Ratbat himself I'm sure are also figured into the price of the figure. Either way, I don't see how that has anything to do with the mold being released at a later time, either.... The people who are going to buy SB will buy him...those of us who won't buy him won't... How much it costs Takara to develop the figure isn't going to effect that one way or the other.

You also assume they're somehow unable or unwilling to release Ratbat on his own, or in a three-pack based on the fact that they've released two two-packs? They make the packs, my friend, they can include as many or as little in them as they wish to. If for some strange reason he MUST be in a two-pack, they could easily make a recolor of any of the other cassettes we already have for little to no cost to sell with him....

They know people want Ratbat. We've been asking since MP Soundwave came out.
They know some people will buy Soundblaster to get him,
but they also know many will NOT buy Soundblaster just to get Ratbat.

It makes no sense for them to just ignore that money, and perfect sense for them to collect that money with a separate release in a couple months. One approach intentionally forgoes a large section of their customers, while the other approach insures that anyone who wants him can get him, but that those who want him immediately are going to pay substantially more to get him with Soundblaster.

Really doesn't seem very complicated, if you ask me.
This is how business works...
If there is demand for their product, which there clearly is, what possible reason could they have to refuse to supply it?

I think you need to chill out a bit...

Remember this?

Rotoraptor wrote:I doubt they made the mold with intend to ONLY sell it with Soundblaster, that would be a total waste of development funds. No, I would bet money we'll see an individual or multi-pack release of Ratbat in the future.

Me saying they're only going to pair Ratbat with Soundblaster is the opposite of you saying they're not going to exclusively pair Ratbat with Soundblaster. Get it?

They're not going to release Ratbat by himself. Or as a pair. They'll repaint him as Wingthing and pair him with Enemy (or something else) as a 2-pack, just to get more use out of the mold.

You can believe differently if you want. There's just no evidence, based on how Takara likes to operate, that a re-release is gonna happen anytime soon.

I don't want Sideswipe. Because then I will have to catch em all! Looks bloody fantastic too. We need more growly toothed mouths. Hopefully if there's every an MP Galvatron we'll get a comic version with super-psycho mentalist doo-lally foaming at the mouth face as an alternate.

Rotoraptor wrote:

megatronus wrote:You can make the opposite argument: they included Ratbat with Soundblaster in order to move units of Soundblaster, which has 0 development cost. That revenue should more than counterbalance the cost of developing a wee little thing like Ratbat.

Also, possible future 2-pack would probably be:

Slugfest & Overkill
Beast Box & Squawk Talk

Where would Ratbat fit into this scheme?

How is that the "opposite argument?"
1) I didn't deny the fact that they likely included Ratbat with Soundblaster to create more interest in the figure than there would be if he came alone or with one of the cassettes we've already gotten. That has no baring on whether or not they will also release Ratbat separately in the future....

2) The fact that Soundblaster is a recolor may mean that it has 0 cost for R&D, but it will still cost money to produce and ship, and the development and production costs of Ratbat himself I'm sure are also figured into the price of the figure. Either way, I don't see how that has anything to do with the mold being released at a later time, either.... The people who are going to buy SB will buy him...those of us who won't buy him won't... How much it costs Takara to develop the figure isn't going to effect that one way or the other.

You also assume they're somehow unable or unwilling to release Ratbat on his own, or in a three-pack based on the fact that they've released two two-packs? They make the packs, my friend, they can include as many or as little in them as they wish to. If for some strange reason he MUST be in a two-pack, they could easily make a recolor of any of the other cassettes we already have for little to no cost to sell with him....

They know people want Ratbat. We've been asking since MP Soundwave came out.
They know some people will buy Soundblaster to get him,
but they also know many will NOT buy Soundblaster just to get Ratbat.

It makes no sense for them to just ignore that money, and perfect sense for them to collect that money with a separate release in a couple months. One approach intentionally forgoes a large section of their customers, while the other approach insures that anyone who wants him can get him, but that those who want him immediately are going to pay substantially more to get him with Soundblaster.

Really doesn't seem very complicated, if you ask me.
This is how business works...
If there is demand for their product, which there clearly is, what possible reason could they have to refuse to supply it?

On the contrary, you're not going to see a separate TT Ratbat release any more than people saw a separate TT Laserbeak release.

The fact is that the moment they do that, virtually all incentives to buy Soundblaster go out the window for people and TT lose a recolour of a larger Masterpiece Transformer.

The fact is that they know that Ratbat is just as much a selling point for Soundblaster as Laserbeak was for Soundwave and so they're not about to shoot themselves in the foot with that.

The fact is that you're more likely to see either Wingthing show up in a 2 pack as a recolour of the mould or a reissue of MP-13B than you are of Ratbat being sold another way.

megatronus wrote:They're not going to release Ratbat by himself. Or as a pair. They'll repaint him as Wingthing and pair him with Enenmy (or something else) as a 2-pack, just to get more use out of the mold.

You can believe differently if you want. There's just no evidence, based on how Takara likes to operate, that a re-release is gonna happen anytime soon.

That's cute. Other than your own presumptions that you know how Takara will be releasing their own products there is no evidence to the contrary either.

I will continue to believe what logic would dictate, that they have no reason not to supply a mold to people for which there is clear demand. "Getting more use" of a mold via repaints only makes sense when the original figure was widely available in the first place, which Ratbat is not. Repaints allow those who own the original figure to buy a second version of the mold, thus netting Takara double profit for the same development costs.

This approach makes much less sense when you're dealing with a group of customers who do not OWN the original, and would want the original color more than a Wingthing repaint. In those cases, releasing a recolor could drastically hurt their profits instead of bolster them. Hell, the recent Hasbro TRU MP Acid Storm is a perfect example of this. They released him in the states assuming that those who could not find the Coronation Starscream mold would purchase him, and instead people are allowing him to shelf-warm because he is not the character they actually wanted to see the mold released as.

People have been demanding an MP Ratbat for months, I haven't seen a single fan clamoring for an MP Wingthing, thus which do you think is going to make them more money? A) The mold they will pay to recolor/retool which not as many people want or, B) the mold they can release as-is which more people will purchase? Again, it's simple supply and demand. They're not going to forgo a release lots of people want so they can pay money to retool it into a release there is limited demand for.... Best Practices in Business 101.

Neither logic, nor your arguments support your assertions, and unless you work for Takara you really shouldn't state your personal beliefs as if they are fact, no matter how valid they may seem to you. I will continue to expect Ratbat in my collection by the end of 2014, until the company that makes them indicates otherwise because, in the end, Takara is the only group who knows if, when and how their products will be released.

Dead Metal wrote:You think Tak will make a G2 Prime as well, with ugly beat up head, neck muscles and black trailer?

That would be awesome! Mind is offially blown

If the Punisher died and was reborn into a Transformer G2 Sideswipe would be him. Punisher Sideswipe, Sideswipe the Punisher or even PunisherTron. Just put a skull and crossbones on his chest and there you go.

Rotoraptor wrote:That's cute.

Thanks!!!

Rotoraptor wrote:Other than your own presumptions that you know how Takara will be releasing their own products there is no evidence to the contrary either.

Right back at you.

Rotoraptor wrote:I will continue to believe what logic would dictate, that they have no reason not to supply a mold to people for which there is clear demand. "Getting more use" of a mold via repaints only makes sense when the original figure was widely available in the first place, which Ratbat is not. Repaints allow those who own the original figure to buy a second version of the mold, thus netting Takara double profit for the same development costs.

Logic is in the eye of the beholder, my friend. As Bowspearer said, there's no precedent for an individual release or re-release along the lines you suggest. How long did it take them to re-release Grimlock? 5 years? Where's the individual Laserbeak release?

Rotoraptor wrote:This approach makes much less sense when you're dealing with a group of customers who do not OWN the original, and would want the original color more than a Wingthing repaint. In those cases, releasing a recolor could drastically hurt their profits instead of bolster them. Hell, the recent Hasbro TRU MP Acid Storm is a perfect example of this. They released him in the states assuming that those who could not find the Coronation Starscream mold would purchase him, and instead people are allowing him to shelf-warm because he is not the character they actually wanted to see the mold released as.

Apples and Oranges. You can't compare Hasbro and Takara's business practices. If they wanted to give people a Starscream proxy, they would have released Starscream. They released Acid Storm because they released Starscream a few years back, and Hasbro wanted to release a new character instead of a repeat (which we actually know via interviews, etc.).

Rotoraptor wrote:People have been demanding an MP Ratbat for months, I haven't seen a single fan clamoring for an MP Wingthing, thus which do you think is going to make them more money? A) The mold they will pay to recolor/retool which not as many people want or, B) the mold they can release as-is which more people will purchase? Again, it's simple supply and demand. They're not going to forgo a release lots of people want so they can pay money to retool it into a release there is limited demand for.... Best Practices in Business 101.

You're right. It's simple supply and demand: they want people to demand their supply of Soundblaster. No reason to tank sales of a larger figure buy making Ratbat an offshoot, when they know people will buy it.

Rotoraptor wrote:Neither logic, nor your arguments support your assertions

Right back at you.

Rotoraptor wrote:unless you work for Takara you really shouldn't state your personal beliefs as if they are fact, no matter how valid they may seem to you.

Right back at... jeez, man! You really need to take your own advice.

Rotoraptor wrote:I will continue to expect Ratbat in my collection by the end of 2014, until the company that makes them indicates otherwise because, in the end, Takara is the only group who knows if, when and how their products will be released.

Exactly. So while you're waiting for Takara to make an announcement (which is unlikely due to how they've been managing the release of figures so far - the only hard evidence either of us actually has), I'll be enjoying my Soundblaster & Ratbat.

Rotoraptor wrote:I will continue to believe what logic would dictate, that they have no reason not to supply a mold to people for which there is clear demand. "Getting more use" of a mold via repaints only makes sense when the original figure was widely available in the first place, which Ratbat is not. Repaints allow those who own the original figure to buy a second version of the mold, thus netting Takara double profit for the same development costs.

By that logic, I eagerly await a mass market retail release of a proper, double-red gun bearing, chromed up Metroplex. Because surely Hasbro wouldn't want to turn down profit when there was a clear demand.

If Hasbro tries the Soundblaster/Ratbat approach, I guarantee there will be tons of people buying him just to pluck Ratbat out and then return Soundblaster saying it was defective.

They would be better off sticking Wingthing in with SB and selling Ratbat with someone else.

RiddlerJ wrote:If Hasbro tries the Soundblaster/Ratbat approach, I guarantee there will be tons of people buying him just to pluck Ratbat out and then return Soundblaster saying it was defective.

They would be better off sticking Wingthing in with SB and selling Ratbat with someone else.

This seems to be the most likely outcome.

On the Ratbat's appearance - looks great. I wouldn't change a thing. I have no problem with the cassette tampo showing on the front of his wing. The back of the wing will be solid purple.

Stormrider wrote:[quote="RiddlerJ"On the Ratbat's appearance - looks great. I wouldn't change a thing. I have no problem with the cassette tampo showing on the front of his wing. The back of the wing will be solid purple.

Hear Hear!

Ratbat IS amazing looking.

I just want the Ratbat.

RiddlerJ wrote:If Hasbro tries the Soundblaster/Ratbat approach, I guarantee there will be tons of people buying him just to pluck Ratbat out and then return Soundblaster saying it was defective.

They would be better off sticking Wingthing in with SB and selling Ratbat with someone else.

I can't see Hasbro releasing him for that reason. Since when has even every 2.0 MP figure seen a Hasbro release?

ausbot wrote:I just want the Ratbat.

HLJ just put up preorders for Soundblaster & Ratbat for ¥12640 & G2 Sideswipe for ¥5200.

I'm definitely getting both versions of Rhinox and Waspinator (and Rattrap and any other Beast Wars figures they make). I was going to anyway (Beast Wars variant obsession here ), but now it's even more important as I may have to do a bit of painting and parts swapping to get the most screen accurate versions possible.

Bowspearer wrote:HLJ just put up preorders for Soundblaster & Ratbat for ¥12640 & G2 Sideswipe for ¥5200.

I'm always tempted by HLJ's prices (especially now that the Yen is down), but I always end up going with a domestic retailer that has collector packaging (TFsource and BBTS).

How does HLJ do packaging wise, and how is their shipping costs?