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D-Maximal_Primal wrote:-Elemental started out really slow, but somehow gained speed, and is now the highest grossing Pixar film in 4 years somehow. An example of a film that came out in heavy traffic, but had legs and good word of mouth.

Funny enough, Elemental will be coming out the same week-end as ROTB in Japan and is predicted to do really well there, beating ROTB.

First-Aid wrote:Can someone tell me if ROTB picked their date before or after Flash and Spidey? I have a feeling they picked first, and the other two studios added their dates afterwards.

They picked the date before Flash and Spidey.

First-Aid wrote:On a side note, how has this not opened in Japan yet????

It's set to be released there on August 4, this Friday.

Meanwhile, Takara has been building up hype to its release with the TV broadcast and toy releases of Beast Wars: Super Lifeform Transformers Again (or "Beast Wars Again", for short).

william-james88 wrote:

First-Aid wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Big Grim wrote:It was average at best with Murder Prime showing a new casual racism against humans that didn't make a lick of sense.

Additionally, we got beast formers who don't transform until the final battle where we don't see them worth a damn. Well done. Well done indeed.

~ Grim

No explanations for any of those too.

To the former, I don't think Prime has had much human interaction to this point, so the trust wouldn't be there. His talk with Bee about Bee's own history with human interaction demonstrates that. Yes, they could have explained it better. The Noah character did a lot for establishing a positive relationship with humanity for Prime, I think.

To the second point, they've been hiding for centuries. Hiding. So likely they haven't been OUT of their beast mode for that long. Likely, they simply feel more natural in them at this point. Transform ONLY if needed. Again, should have explained better, but that explanation makes sense to me.

On a side note, how has this not opened in Japan yet????

The robot modes are as big as the beast modes, I don't see how being in one is considered hiding compared to being in a different mode.

Those beast modes are very accurate. You also have to consider the very low likelihood of anyone travelling that deep into the jungle on foot to encounter them up close. If they were to be spotted, it would most likely be from the air where it would be really difficult to judge their size. As long as it is effective IN PASSING, as remote as they are, there wouldn't be an issue with them hiding despite their size.

The basic formula for these movies has been stagnant since the first sequel. So despite all the action, the sound and the fury, they're still boring.

Plus, their interpretation of Optimus has just veered so off-character. He's gone from compassionate hero, to a merciless butcher who rips off faces with hooks and blows off enemies' heads while they're down and helpless.

DeathReviews wrote:Plus, their interpretation of Optimus has just veered so off-character. He's gone from compassionate hero, to a merciless butcher who rips off faces with hooks and blows off enemies' heads while they're down and helpless.

Funny you should mention that.

I don't think he is a psycho. I think he is a soldier who has been fighting in a war of pure survival for millions of years.

The issue is that people are seeing him as OUR Optimus when it isn't.

First-Aid wrote:The issue is that people are seeing him as OUR Optimus when it isn't.

I mean, even Peter Cullen sees him as the same Optimus that he's always played.

WE know he isn't, but it really says something when even Peter has had objections about the character.

First-Aid wrote:I don't think he is a psycho. I think he is a soldier who has been fighting in a war of pure survival for millions of years.

The issue is that people are seeing him as OUR Optimus when it isn't.

Personally, i really don't care? Having different flavors of Optimus is good. I like Animated Prime for the younger learning to lead type, but I also really like movie/Prime Optimus. And each personality fits the world that Optimus comes from.

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:

First-Aid wrote:I don't think he is a psycho. I think he is a soldier who has been fighting in a war of pure survival for millions of years.

The issue is that people are seeing him as OUR Optimus when it isn't.

Personally, i really don't care? Having different flavors of Optimus is good. I like Animated Prime for the younger learning to lead type, but I also really like movie/Prime Optimus. And each personality fits the world that Optimus comes from.

You, sir, NAILED IT. I salute you.

First-Aid wrote:

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:

First-Aid wrote:I don't think he is a psycho. I think he is a soldier who has been fighting in a war of pure survival for millions of years.

The issue is that people are seeing him as OUR Optimus when it isn't.

Personally, i really don't care? Having different flavors of Optimus is good. I like Animated Prime for the younger learning to lead type, but I also really like movie/Prime Optimus. And each personality fits the world that Optimus comes from.

You, sir, NAILED IT. I salute you.

Agreed, it's good that we have different takes on the character.

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:

Spider5800 wrote:I still think this film was a victim of bad timing. Opening in the middle of Spiderverse 2, Flash and Elemental was just a dumb move, especially since two of those movies probably draw from the same target audience. Film had no breathing room, and basically won a single weekend before getting pushed out by other films. Exact same mistake they made with Bumblebee.

Agreed with this. Why they timed it like they did is beyond me, and we are witnessing a similar phenomenon with Mission Impossible. It opened at a bad time as well, and Oppenheimer and Barbie just absolutely destroyed it.

We've also been witnessing a very volatile and interesting movie market this year:

-Outside of Spiderverse and Guardians of the Galaxy, things related to superheroes are doing very poorly. I think we are up to 3 bombs now (Shazam, Quantumania, Flash), plus Secret Invasion on streaming just ended extremely badly.
-Oppenheimer, a 3 hour biopic related to nuclear warfare, has really blown expectations, especially as an R-rated movie. It has outgrossed I think Shazam, Flash, and is closing in on Transformers and Quantumania, and it only came out 11 days ago. Plus, it has been very well reviewed and received.
-Barbie is just a true case of madness, destroying any expectations and really throwing a grenade in the water, as well as being highly reviewed and received. Plus, ya know, barbenheimer.
-Elemental started out really slow, but somehow gained speed, and is now the highest grossing Pixar film in 4 years somehow. An example of a film that came out in heavy traffic, but had legs and good word of mouth.
-Then of course there is MI underperforming due to the release time, much like Transformers
-And we cannot forget that Super Mario Bros. is the highest grossing film by far this year, though Barbie stands a reasonable chance of catching it.

Needless to say, it's a madhouse at the theatre this year.

All this times 100% I really think these films will do better on the home market, we might see a very interesting Fall and Winter.

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:but I also really like movie/Prime Optimus. And each personality fits the world that Optimus comes from.

That's true. The world of the movies is gratuitously uber-violent, so Movie Optimus is also gratuitously uber-violent. And the world of Prime is dull and lifeless, so Prime Optimus is also dull and lifeless.

Leaving aside the matter of fatigue (one of the reasons they made this a REBOOT - diBonaventura is not a credible source, Will, and the people actually writing and directing have said it's a reboot and your efforts to twist their words otherwise aren't fooling anyone but you)...

1. Paramount prematurely putting the movie on stream and announcing "On streaming soon" around ONE WEEK IN is undoubtedly a major factor, and I'm sure exhibitors would love to have a "chat" with the Paramount higher-ups about that. In a soundproofed, windowless room.
2. Within the fandom, however, some additional blame falls on this very site. We had a full-movie spoiler synopsis up before the thing even opened. Whatever the motive, be it furthering Will's attempts at reboot-denial or simply ZOMG HOT SKEWP... it was selfish and stupid, and undoubtedly sabotaged fan attendance numbers to some degree or other; part of me wishes we'd been served a C&D over it. Thar article along with Will's increasingly deranged denial about it being a reboot... makes me want us to stop covering non-toy movie news entirely.
3. I think Will is grossly underestimating the potential of the Japanese box office performance. Takara's hype machine is doing a way better job to drum up interest than Hasbro and Paramount did, including milking the Japanese love for Beast Wars for everything it's worth.

What I heard, the TF movies don't do very well in Japan all of them. So this one will do worse than that I assume. Still one country will not lift it from being one of the worst money wise if not thé worst.

On that fatigue, I think that's totally not applicable here.

The movie has the exact same plot as any other Bayformers movie. It's shallow, simple yet convoluted at the same time. Too many elements, anything interesting is so thin in the movie. You have the Beast Wars selling point half overshadowed by Unicron. There is very little focus and again, again AGAIN it's a world-ending-event.
So the story is boring and mediocre, the graphics are less than the previous and it's Transformers 6 (or 7) so as good as the same stuff every movie but this one had worse action and graphics.
You can't blame that on fatigue.
Just make a cool, good, different Transformers movie with a sane amount of plot elements, sane amount of characters that have character > decent movie.

For the next skip this whole boy and his first car and throw in Star Saber, with the Star Saber (from Armada) and have half of the film be a cosmic space opera battle. It would be 500.000.000 dollars on CG and Paramount would go bankrupt, but atleast we would be getting a great and different Transformers movie.

ZeroWolf wrote:

First-Aid wrote:

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:

First-Aid wrote:I don't think he is a psycho. I think he is a soldier who has been fighting in a war of pure survival for millions of years.

The issue is that people are seeing him as OUR Optimus when it isn't.

Personally, i really don't care? Having different flavors of Optimus is good. I like Animated Prime for the younger learning to lead type, but I also really like movie/Prime Optimus. And each personality fits the world that Optimus comes from.

You, sir, NAILED IT. I salute you.

Agreed, it's good that we have different takes on the character.

If there is one thing I really get annoyed with, it is "this character should act the same across all universes", and just like, no? It is OK to have different flavors of character, there are different audiences after all. Case in point: look at Bulkhead and his 4 cartoon appearances (RiD2015 and Prime obviously being the same guy): Grizzled war vet who is kinda crazy; lovable clunkhead who is clumsy but very smart in a couple very specific fields with a big heart; and construction worker great at breaking and wrecking stuff, but who also has a soft heart. All work.

And I think the Mirage that came through for RotB falls into this: this toy his toy bio and reimagined it, and couple that with the voice actor, and we had a pretty great character come out, really unlike any version before, but to me easily solo-ing any other version of the character.

Sabrblade wrote:

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:but I also really like movie/Prime Optimus. And each personality fits the world that Optimus comes from.

That's true. The world of the movies is gratuitously uber-violent, so Movie Optimus is also gratuitously uber-violent. And the world of Prime is dull and lifeless, so Prime Optimus is also dull and lifeless.

And G1 Prime was a goofball who was felled by ridiculous schemes but always got out of them thanks to 80's magic until he had to actually fight a real stakes fight, where he made a crucial mistake and died easily and quickly. You're right, it is true!

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Leaving aside the matter of fatigue (one of the reasons they made this a REBOOT - diBonaventura is not a credible source, Will, and the people actually writing and directing have said it's a reboot and your efforts to twist their words otherwise aren't fooling anyone but you)...

1. Paramount prematurely putting the movie on stream and announcing "On streaming soon" around ONE WEEK IN is undoubtedly a major factor, and I'm sure exhibitors would love to have a "chat" with the Paramount higher-ups about that. In a soundproofed, windowless room.
2. Within the fandom, however, some additional blame falls on this very site. We had a full-movie spoiler synopsis up before the thing even opened. Whatever the motive, be it furthering Will's attempts at reboot-denial or simply ZOMG HOT SKEWP... it was selfish and stupid, and undoubtedly sabotaged fan attendance numbers to some degree or other; part of me wishes we'd been served a C&D over it. Thar article along with Will's increasingly deranged denial about it being a reboot... makes me want us to stop covering non-toy movie news entirely.
3. I think Will is grossly underestimating the potential of the Japanese box office performance. Takara's hype machine is doing a way better job to drum up interest than Hasbro and Paramount did, including milking the Japanese love for Beast Wars for everything it's worth.

Unfortunately, despite how idiotic he is, we do have to take at least a smidge of what DiBoneventure says seriously. This is just an X-men style thing at this point: it all sorta kinda can or cannot take place together, and if you are thinking about it, don't. (I'm not condoning it, just stating the facts here).

The quick-to-streaming schedule didn't help certainly, but maybe when they saw who they were opening against, that helped make that decision.

And unfortunately, I do agree that posting a story with the full plot was a stupid ass decision. And the way many stories were written leading up to the movie were certainly a joke in and of itself. I wouldn't say it was a huge impact, but it was an impact.

With a lot of news to get through, we wanted to share this great interview from Variety with the CEO of Paramount, Brian Robbins. While this interview covers all the Paramount films, it does give us some incite on Transformers Rise of the Beasts. The CEO points out that the film did not do great and that the main reason they attribute is the big budget which blew up due to COVID along with reduced income from Russia (who used to be the 6th biggest market for these films) and a major underperformance in China (which only bought half the tickets expected by Paramount).

But the major part that all trades, and us, are taking away from this interview is the confirmation that Michael Bay still has a hold on the Transformers film franchise. All major decisions still have to go through him and he has the ability to veto them. We learn that for Paramount to include GI Joe in the film, they needed the ok from Michael Bay. And Bay was hesitant at first since he thought merging the two brands would cheapen the Transformers films, but he did eventually sign off on it.

Bay’s approval was tricky, because he was worried that merging the series would cheapen the other “Transformers” movies. “I called him 50 times,” Robbins says. “I would not let him off the hook. And when he finally stopped dodging my calls, we got him to sign off.”

I agree with First-Aid, D-max and Zero Wolf. Movie Optimus is an soldier in war, still trying to maintain hope in a bad situation. The story does a good job of contextualizing his choices.

Both before and after movies, has show Optimus and the Autobots having to use violence in order to win


Many versions of them carry firearms, which is natural in a story about war.

It's a double standard to say one its okay, while condening the other.

Personally, I'm more the plot guy than the senseless spectacle guy. So ROTB ranks 3rd for me, behind '07 & BBM, even with all the exposition, pacing & plotting issues it got.

The biggest problem I have with ROTB is that Caple Jr. is inexperienced as a director and wanted ROTB to be too much of a fans service for HIMSELF. Need more self-control. It's like he wanted to see all the stuff from a TF movie in his movies - "Ooo I want Unicorn, Oooo I want Exo-suit, and this, and that!" like it's his one-and-only-chance to bring whatever he wants to the big screen. The plot AND budget suffered for it. Plus, his wants of bringing CP ("We MADE it to a big-time TF movie, Woooot!") and the "Brooklyn, Baby!" as a focus also didn't help (that's different from finding the protagonists competent & even charming, but they do lack star power for the non-fans IMO).

With people demanding ever one-upping spectacles after spectacles from previous movies. TF Live-action is just not sustainable. Paramount is smart in trying to do TF:One instead. More creative freedom, easier budget controls, and doesn't have to deal with humans.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Leaving aside the matter of fatigue (one of the reasons they made this a REBOOT - diBonaventura is not a credible source, Will, and the people actually writing and directing have said it's a reboot and your efforts to twist their words otherwise aren't fooling anyone but you)...

1. Paramount prematurely putting the movie on stream and announcing "On streaming soon" around ONE WEEK IN is undoubtedly a major factor, and I'm sure exhibitors would love to have a "chat" with the Paramount higher-ups about that. In a soundproofed, windowless room.
2. Within the fandom, however, some additional blame falls on this very site. We had a full-movie spoiler synopsis up before the thing even opened. Whatever the motive, be it furthering Will's attempts at reboot-denial or simply ZOMG HOT SKEWP... it was selfish and stupid, and undoubtedly sabotaged fan attendance numbers to some degree or other; part of me wishes we'd been served a C&D over it. Thar article along with Will's increasingly deranged denial about it being a reboot... makes me want us to stop covering non-toy movie news entirely.
3. I think Will is grossly underestimating the potential of the Japanese box office performance. Takara's hype machine is doing a way better job to drum up interest than Hasbro and Paramount did, including milking the Japanese love for Beast Wars for everything it's worth.

I just report the news. Paramount's official stance is that this is part of the same live action franchise. We have that in writing. If you have an official publication where Paramount states that this film is a reboot and unrelated to the other films, then share it and I will news it.

And if anyone wants an actual reason from Paramount why this is the lowest money making film in the franchise, it was answered: 0 revenue from Russia, which used to be a big market, and half the anticipated revenue from China due to current geo politics.

A bit off-topic (aside from the photo being used), but Elena smiling with the Bay Films text in the credits confirms she is a fan of his movies and no one can convince me that it's not canon.

I’ve literally lost count of many of these pointless articles this site has written about how Rise the beasts didn’t perform well

Randomhero wrote:I’ve literally lost count of many of these pointless articles this site has written about how Rise the beasts didn’t perform well

I'm like to write an article about its opening numbers in Japan, since fans are curious and it's been brought up a lot. Should I only publish that article if the film performs well in Japan?

Randomhero wrote:I’ve literally lost count of many of these pointless articles this site has written about how Rise the beasts didn’t perform well

Will and the rest of the staff can only work with what they have. I know you'd like it to be wall to wall reviews by yours truly but that can't happen. The success or lack thereof correlates directly to how the brand will be perceived going forward which is important and could be used to explain why store A cuts their transformers section in half.

william-james88 wrote:I'm like to write an article about its opening numbers in Japan, since fans are curious and it's been brought up a lot. Should I only publish that article if the film performs well in Japan?

For me weekend box office updates are appreciated. But the pessimistic tone is a little heavy though bth.

Sure ROTB performs below expectations, and might be a loser for Paramount at the box office at the end of the day. But digital/physical media will play a bigger ratio for ROTB than any previous movies in recuperating costs because I bet more fans want to stream it than watch at the cinema nowadays. I am one of them. But I'm an outlier from the start as I can count on one hand how may times I go to the theatre in a year (my wife doesn't care about dumb blockbusters, nor I).

But in terms of pure losses, ROTB can't be worst than the DC/Marvels/Indy. It's jsut a weird movie year.

But that full script post... man... that a buzz killer IMO.

And besides, Box office numbers isn't that big a deal anyway. Profitable? Great! Paramount lost money on a film? Tax writeoff! AND (hopefully) lesson learned!

cloudballoon wrote:

william-james88 wrote:I'm like to write an article about its opening numbers in Japan, since fans are curious and it's been brought up a lot. Should I only publish that article if the film performs well in Japan?

For me weekend box office updates are appreciated. But the pessimistic tone is a little heavy though bth.

Sure ROTB performs below expectations, and might be a loser for Paramount at the box office at the end of the day. But digital/physical media will play a bigger ratio for ROTB than any previous movies in recuperating costs because I bet more fans want to stream it than watch at the cinema nowadays. I am one of them. But I'm an outlier from the start as I can count on one hand how may times I go to the theatre in a year (my wife doesn't care about dumb blockbusters, nor I).

But in terms of pure losses, ROTB can't be worst than the DC/Marvels/Indy. It's jsut a weird movie year.

But that full script post... man... that a buzz killer IMO.

And besides, Box office numbers isn't that big a deal anyway. Profitable? Great! Paramount lost money on a film? Tax writeoff! AND (hopefully) lesson learned!

Thanks, I really appreciate your post. And Chuck, the next news to be posted will be more to your taste.