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I'd read Ben Yee's review of the trailer, and he was positive, and your review only adds to my anticipation, Ryan. I may not agree with everything about it (mostly the designs of Megatron and Starscream), but those are details. It looks like it's going to be what I expect from a Bay/Spielberg production: exciting, lots of action, and nice eye candy. Honestly, was anyone expecting deep philosophical discussions?

Seibertron wrote:

Riotflea wrote:It fails being G1 and seems like it'll fail as a good movie, despite however many get initially suckered in by the inevitable media blitz as seen with Godzilla and ID4.

Last I checked, Indepence Day was a very successfuly movie. It's ranked #22 on the all-time highest grossing movies list.

http://www.movieweb.com/movies/boxoffice/alltime.php

Godzilla doesn't even show up on the list. If Transformers can hold a candle to the success of ID4, it will be a great thing.

It was also widly critisied by the press. Do you really want a Transformers movie that does big bucks at the box office but is widly concidered as a **** movie? ID4 was discribed by one UK reviewer as "A mish-mash of elements from a wide variety of alien invasion movies and gung-ho American jingoism", I see very worrying signs Transformers may also end up being discribed as in such a way.

Seibertron wrote:EDIT2: I just realized that the first list that I linked spans over 26 pages so maybe Godzilla appears on one of the later lists. I'll take Transformers doing as well as ID4 to get in the top 25 of all time. That'd make me a very happy Transformers website owner.

But would it make you happy as a fan? Or doesn't that matter anymore? Is all that matters that it makes Hasbro, Paramount, Dreamworks, Speilberg, Bay etc a big stack of money therfore securing the future of the franchise for the forseeable future and increasing traffic on your website? Does it not matter to you that that which you promote, that which bears the name of your beloved hobby is a grat big pile of garbage? Becuase it sure as hell matters to me.

Yours AK

Alex Kingdom wrote:It was also widly critisied by the press.

And you know what? That means nothing to me.

I read reviews of movies, I see them cricitise a movie, put it down, write it off. But I go and see it anyway. And you know what? I enjoy it.

Movie reviewers these days have become jaded, the majority of them come across as either paid off by the movie companies, or think their university journalism degree gives them a right to look down upon people who enjoy a flick for mindless action, nudity, cheesy love stories, all over shadowing the lack of storyline but is generally a fun movie.

Sorry folks, but just because I like a good action flick with mindless violence, a bit of sex and nudity, and little to no storyline doesn't make me dumb or stupid. It just means I know how to enjoy a movie without over-analysing it and trying to compare it to other epic movies.

Perhaps some people should try sitting back and watching this TF movie and not over-analyse it. Maybe then they'll enjoy it. Though I some how suspect the narrow mindedness I see demonstrated in this forum on a regular basis would make it hard for some people to enjoy ANYTHING, let alone one movie.

Welcome, and...
WARNING! SEIBERTRON CONTAINS NUTS!!

BTW, welcome to the Haters Club. Your gift basket is in the mail.

Thanks and I know, I've been reading for years, I just don't usually post. (I'm usually to be found on Usenet and BWTF.) I guess you can call me a hater. I'm more just frustrated with the direction the movie went. If it does well and lots of people enjoy it, that's great for them. I guess I'm just too much of a purist.

Kevin Guhl

Burn wrote:Sorry folks, but just because I like a good action flick with mindless violence, a bit of sex and nudity, and little to no storyline doesn't make me dumb or stupid. It just means I know how to enjoy a movie without over-analysing it and trying to compare it to other epic movies.

So I take it you enjoy all action flicks with mindless violence, a bit of sex and nudity, and little to no storyline? Or is it just the good ones? We all know the movie isn't going to be a classic, but is it actually going to be any good? All the evidence I've seen point to great special effects, no story, no real acting, Hollywood cliches a plenty, bad comedy, and no real resemblance to the subject matter. Both from the perpective of a Tranformers fan and a regular movie goer I dont like the look of this movie, and I would have written it off months ago had it not got Transformers in the title, and I don't think its narrow minded of me to say so.

Yours AK

DetectiveFork wrote:

Welcome, and...
WARNING! SEIBERTRON CONTAINS NUTS!!

BTW, welcome to the Haters Club. Your gift basket is in the mail.

Thanks and I know, I've been reading for years, I just don't usually post. (I'm usually to be found on Usenet and BWTF.) I guess you can call me a hater. I'm more just frustrated with the direction the movie went. If it does well and lots of people enjoy it, that's great for them. I guess I'm just too much of a purist.

Kevin Guhl

I know what you mean. I'd hate for Transformers to be stuck like the movie for years to come.

Ryan, that was a cool review. Thanks for taking the time to pass it on. I can't wait for the movie!

Nope sorry, still doesn't sound and feel like transformers to me. Just an action movie about 'alien' car robots with humans.
I guess it was too much for me to hope for a good transformer movie instead of a mindless action flick with robots...

.

Alex Kingdom wrote:

Burn wrote:Sorry folks, but just because I like a good action flick with mindless violence, a bit of sex and nudity, and little to no storyline doesn't make me dumb or stupid. It just means I know how to enjoy a movie without over-analysing it and trying to compare it to other epic movies.

So I take it you enjoy all action flicks with mindless violence, a bit of sex and nudity, and little to no storyline? Or is it just the good ones? We all know the movie isn't going to be a classic, but is it actually going to be any good? All the evidence I've seen point to great special effects, no story, no real acting, Hollywood cliches a plenty, bad comedy, and no real resemblance to the subject matter. Both from the perpective of a Tranformers fan and a regular movie goer I dont like the look of this movie, and I would have written it off months ago had it not got Transformers in the title, and I don't think its narrow minded of me to say so.

Yours AK

qft. i enjoy a "dumb" movie every now and then (hell, i own a number of them), all i really ask is that it has a storyline or characters that are unique enough for me to be able to care about. frankly, mindless action alone just becomes bland after a while to me, hence why i need something of interest to carry a "dumb" movie from action scene to action scene. if a movie doesn't have that, it gets boring fast. and i have yet to see anything in terms of plot or character from this movie that hasn't been done in a hundred different movies before. hell, the leaked script was the first and so far only time i've ever failed to read a movie script in one sitting (which i make a point of doing on the occasion that i read one). why? because i was utterly bored to tears with the generic plot and characters. granted, the script doesn't have all the nifty special effects that the final product does, but while that would help it sustain my interest a short while longer, it wouldn't last nearly long enough to enable me to enjoy the movie.

Critics' opinions don't mean a thing if people have any sense.
They aren't going to like Transformers, that's a given, and pretty much a guarantee.
They didn't like Ghost Rider and I really enjoyed it.
When I read statements like "Depite being panned by critics Ghost Rider brought in 44.5 million dollars on its opening weekend" I consider that to be pretty damn successful.

Leonard Malton hated TF: The Movie, as did Siskel and Ebert.
But who gives a crap what they thought of it? People flocked in to the theaters to make their own assessments.
Some didn't like it, some did, but can anyone honestly say "I liked the movie but because the critics thought it was **** I have no choice but to voice my displeasure over it."

This crap about the 'humour' in the movie is getting out of hand too. Every movie like this has some 'chuckleable' scene. GR had the bike cop getting blown off his bike at the speed trap.
LOL funny? No, but it created a chuckle among the crowd.

This is, again, a redundant argument, but all I'm saying is stop caring what the critics think. They aren't special people, they're just people who get paid a stupid amount of money to watch movies that are "Oscar-worthy" and praise them while running down the fun stuff.

Maximus Prime wrote:Critics' opinions don't mean a thing if people have any sense.
They aren't going to like Transformers, that's a given, and pretty much a guarantee.
They didn't like Ghost Rider and I really enjoyed it.
When I read statements like "Depite being panned by critics Ghost Rider brought in 44.5 million dollars on its opening weekend" I consider that to be pretty damn successful.

Leonard Malton hated TF: The Movie, as did Siskel and Ebert.
But who gives a crap what they thought of it? People flocked in to the theaters to make their own assessments.
Some didn't like it, some did, but can anyone honestly say "I liked the movie but because the critics thought it was **** I have no choice but to voice my displeasure over it."

This crap about the 'humour' in the movie is getting out of hand too. Every movie like this has some 'chuckleable' scene. GR had the bike cop getting blown off his bike at the speed trap.
LOL funny? No, but it created a chuckle among the crowd.

This is, again, a redundant argument, but all I'm saying is stop caring what the critics think. They aren't special people, they're just people who get paid a stupid amount of money to watch movies that are "Oscar-worthy" and praise them while running down the fun stuff.

while i certainly agree that the critics' response isn't an accurate gauge of a movie's quality, neither is the box office take, which is most indicative of the quality of the marketing campaign. i think the best available indicator we have of the overall quality of a movie is movie sites like imdb that rate movies based on user votes, giving us some semblance of a general concensus from the public. granted, they're not quite perfect for a variety of reasons (people making multiple accounts and biased votes being two big ones), but then i don't think any system really is for something as subjective as movie tastes. but they're about as good as you can reasonably get.

Maximus Prime wrote:Critics' opinions don't mean a thing if people have any sense. etc...

Agreed whole heartedly, it is our own individual opinions that count at the end of the day. Burn just chose to zero in on a tiny part of a much larger point I was trying to make, that financial success at the box office does not necessarily equate to it being a good movie. This movie could (and probably will) make millions but what good is that if it does the Transformers mythology a total diservice? Or turns out to be an embarrasment of a movie for Transfans and movie fans alike?

Yours AK

Alex Kingdom wrote:So I take it you enjoy all action flicks with mindless violence, a bit of sex and nudity, and little to no storyline?

Generally, yes I do.

I watch a movie to be entertained. And that entertainment can range from action movies with mindless violence, sex and nudity all with little to no storyline to full blown dramas that stir up my emotions, fill me with pride ... make me cry ... and then there's the dumbarse comedies that even though the jokes are exceptionally lame, I still laugh anyway.

We all know the movie isn't going to be a classic, but is it actually going to be any good? All the evidence I've seen point to great special effects, no story, no real acting, Hollywood cliches a plenty, bad comedy, and no real resemblance to the subject matter.

And that AK is YOUR opinion. So i'm sorry but "we all" do NOT know that this movie is or isn't going to be a classic. You'll have to forgive me if I ignore YOUR opinion and see the movie myself and form MY OWN opinion.

Both from the perpective of a Tranformers fan and a regular movie goer I dont like the look of this movie, and I would have written it off months ago had it not got Transformers in the title, and I don't think its narrow minded of me to say so.

Again, your opinion, but unlike most people, you at least give reasons WHY you don't like the idea of this movie. When I say narrow minded I refer to the people who write this movie off because they simply hate Bay, or simply hate it because it's not pure G1.

You're also willing to at least see it and are willing to admit you're wrong if it turns out you do enjoy the movie. Unfortunately there's a few thousand others out there who aren't open to doing that.

Agreed whole heartedly, it is our own individual opinions that count at the end of the day. Burn just chose to zero in on a tiny part of a much larger point I was trying to make, that financial success at the box office does not necessarily equate to it being a good movie

Thanks for misinterpretting me. Sorry but I don't define a "good movie" by it's box office take. There's plenty of big money rakers out there that I haven't enjoyed. I define a "good movie" by how much it entertains me.

So it sounds like the argument for this movie is boiling down to following:

1. Is this movie going to be entertaining?

2. Will this movie support the Transformer franchise or hinder it?

3. Is this movie going to be a classic or short lived?

Shall we start a pool?

stormrider wrote:So it sounds like the argument for this movie is boiling down to following:

1. Is this movie going to be entertaining?

2. Will this movie support the Transformer franchise or hinder it?

3. Is this movie going to be a classic or short lived?

Shall we start a pool?

1. Mildly.

2. Hinder if failure, change if successful.

3. Short lived.

A pool? Naw. I'm dirt poor.

Spoon wrote:Nope sorry, still doesn't sound and feel like transformers to me. Just an action movie about 'alien' car robots with humans.
I guess it was too much for me to hope for a good transformer movie instead of a mindless action flick with robots...

.

I thought that was what a cartoon about a bunch of transforming aliens shooting eachother was, "a mindless action flick with robots"

Transtopias Rodimus Prime wrote:

Spoon wrote:Nope sorry, still doesn't sound and feel like transformers to me. Just an action movie about 'alien' car robots with humans.
I guess it was too much for me to hope for a good transformer movie instead of a mindless action flick with robots...

.

I thought that was what a cartoon about a bunch of transforming alien robots shooting eachother was, "a mindless action flick with robots"

Transformers aren't mindless. Only half of the show was fighting, as opposed to Michael Bay's 99% partiotic fighting movies.

BTW, fixed. They're alien robots, not just aliens(as Bay wants them to be).

No, Transformers are not mindless, the G1 cartoon was pretty mindless though. Most cartoons are not made to be mind stimulating, especially for adults. One more thing, as a guy I would like to say that I love mindless, 99% Action flicks. There are so many real life things to think about I want to relax my brain and see a good shoot'em up, bang'em up, BLOW'EM UP, Robot, Alien, Military, Musclecar, Big Rig with flames, Sweet@ss, Speilberg, Bay, better than Spiderman, freaking MOVIE. And so do all of my friends Transfans or not. This is going to be an iconic movie that should not be missed at the Theatre.
MY HUMBLE OPINION. Matt Prime.

I know what you mean. I'd hate for Transformers to be stuck like the movie for years to come.

That bothers me, as well. To a lot of the public, especially if the movie succeeds, THIS will be what Transformers is, especialy with those godawful designs. The media blitz has already begun to heavily push the new version of Transformers. I don't want that to replace the blockier look we're used to with Transformers and the traditional G1 storyline that lives on, even as the Unicron Trilogy started things anew. For the current generation of kids, the movie might define what Transformers is and the powers-that-be have created something that, to me, doesn't suit the Transformers many of us like.

When we're not getting movie toys, what do we have? There's Transformers: Heroes which, from the sketches that showed up online, looks like "Teen Titans" with robots; very much in a kiddie anime style. Meanwhile, Alternators and the Reissues are pretty much done and Classics is in limbo. That only leaves Titanium, which tries hard but collapses under its own die-cast weight half the time.

Transtopias Rodimus Prime wrote:No, Transformers are not mindless, the G1 cartoon was pretty mindless though. Most cartoons are not made to be mind stimulating, especially for adults. One more thing, as a guy I would like to say that I love mindless, 99% Action flicks. There are so many real life things to think about I want to relax my brain and see a good shoot'em up, bang'em up, BLOW'EM UP, Robot, Alien, Military, Musclecar, Big Rig with flames, Sweet@ss, Speilberg, Bay, better than Spiderman, freaking MOVIE. And so do all of my friends Transfans or not. This is going to be an iconic movie that should not be missed at the Theatre.
MY HUMBLE OPINION. Matt Prime.

You want Transformers to be the forgettable, two second, "ZOMG!! BLOW UP!! SWEET @SS!! ALIENS!! MILLITARY!!" Bay movie that spits at the fans and the history of the franchise? Go watch Godzilla '98 or ID4 for that stuff, and leave it behind when you talk about Transformers.

Transformers has been ionic with a certain theme and look. If you want that thrown away for two seconds of enjoyment, then shame on you. Shame on everyone that THINKS like you. This movie won't be able to touch the Spiderman movies, because they stay true to the franchise and please the fans WHILE making excellent movies. If this movie succeeds, thousands of fans will be stuck with this type of unintellegent dribble until it drives this franchise into the ground. If you want an ionic franchise to change so that you will like it, then that is the most selfish thing I've heard in all of my life. If you don't like Transformers as it is, then you are welcome to leave the fandom. Just don't forget your ego on the way out.

Bluebullet wrote:Transformers has been ionic with a certain theme and look.

Yeah 'cause that whole robot changing into something else concept is sooooo original.

I seriously think that as "fans" we're bias and believe TF to be an iconic part of entertainment history.

Realisitically though if you walked down a street, pulled up a complete stranger and showed them a picture of G1 Optimus Prime and a picture of Mr T, i'm betting they'd recognise Mr T first, and his show was only on for a few years.

Iconic? To fans may be ... but the rest of the population ...

If the movie is successful probably the toy series will be split for a while. There will be the "Movie version" and the "Classics version" (or whatever you want to call them).

Batman, Superman, Spiderman, X-Men have been around for a while and the movie versions and the classic versions to rake in money from different types of fans.

Transtopias Rodimus Prime wrote:Look bluebullet, go eat something and take a nap so you won't be so cranky. I am not trying to change anything. If your stuck in 1984 that's fine make your own G1 movie. While you're at it study the history of Transformers and notice the changes and forms the bots have taken on over the years. Prime became a conventional Big Rig way back. He even became an ape, a car, a fire engine, and a bat, none of which are blocky. I can't understand why you're so mad at me for enjoying the possibility of a Transformers movie when it's what we all have wanted for so long. Just chill. quit and Primus loves you too.

You know, I wasn't even born in the 80's. I am 14 currently, and I accept all Transformers EXCEPT this movie. Also, Optimus Primal wasn't Optimus Prime. He was a completely different character. The reason why Optimus Primal wasn't blocky is because he became a BEAST, not a truck. I, too, want a Transformers movie, but what Bay is trying to make bears no resemblance to any Transformers. Michael Bay is doing what I criticised you for wanting, and I will fight this movie 'till the end. Sure, Optimus has been a Big Rig, but a Big Rig with RODIMUS'S FLAMES? Nope. Michael Bay has no idea what makes Transformers or the kindness to study up and listen to the fans, therefore, he cannot make a Transformers movie. Only a new Godzilla '98.

And Burn? The only way for your statement to work is if you asked an old man buying Depends. Most people in their 30's know who Optimus Prime is, which is a good portion of the U.S.

Maximus Prime, what he stated was that he wanted to change the entire franchise for a quick brainless thrill movie. I was a little too harsh, but after the Hitsuki incident, I won't put up with anyone who will accept the worst effort for a Transformers movie.

Burn wrote:Lots of very well reasoned stuff

I wrote a long reply going into detail about what I said and what I ment. I hit post, I got "No Post mode specified", and i lost it. Surfice to say I agree with pretty much all you said, I'm just skeptical that I will enjoy the movie and dont feel it's the sort of movie people will look back on in years to come and call a 'classic'.

Yours AK

stormrider wrote:If the movie is successful probably the toy series will be split for a while. There will be the "Movie version" and the "Classics version" (or whatever you want to call them).

Batman, Superman, Spiderman, X-Men have been around for a while and the movie versions and the classic versions to rake in money from different types of fans.

I assume you mean "if the movie toyline does well" as opposed to "the movie". I think that's an important distinction because if the toyline flops, even if the movie pulls big numbers, it may jeopardize the likelihood of sequels and result in the line being killed prematurely (as unlikely as that is).

Either way I don't personally expect a side-by-side movie and 'primary' line. Perhaps briefly during a transition phase like we did with Classics and Cybertron but a few months after the dvd release, probably around Easter, I'm guessing the movie figures will have dried-up. Among the lines you've mentioned the 'movie' lines ceased soon after the dvd release and the Spiderman and X-Men movie characters were integrated into the primary lines. We might get some figures with similar design aesthetics shuffled-in and I'm sure we'll get movie name recycles and 'homages' but once Heroes hits shelves I doubt we'll get any more actual movie figures until the sequel.