Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

Saw this on Youtube and the first thing I thought of was the majority of people on this and other Transformers forums. Hope you agree.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBeAjISBb2U

Warning: NSFW

It was kinda funny. It's a somewhat extreme way of looking at things, but there are probably plenty of people like that out there.

Rodimus Prime wrote:It was kinda funny. It's a somewhat extreme way of looking at things, but there are probably plenty of people like that out there.

Considering that 70% of the people here are like that, 5% discuss their dislike rationaly, 10% are snide and condescending toward fans in their dislike, and 15% actually liked the films I'd say the video heavily favors the majority of posters here.

I guess there's some measure of pride in being part of the 70%. Whatever pride that might be is horribly misplaced though. I'll stick with the vast numerically superior majority that enjoyed the films and aren't full blown Transformers fans. If these films taught me anything it's the immaturity of fandoms.

I think it's one of those squeaky wheel situations. People like that whine the loudest and get more attention than they should. Most of the people on this site are pretty sane and reasonable.

Evil_the_Nub wrote:I think it's one of those squeaky wheel situations. People like that whine the loudest and get more attention than they should. Most of the people on this site are pretty sane and reasonable.

Ha! Comedy.

Capt.Failure wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:It was kinda funny. It's a somewhat extreme way of looking at things, but there are probably plenty of people like that out there.

Considering that 70% of the people here are like that, 5% discuss their dislike rationaly, 10% are snide and condescending toward fans in their dislike, and 15% actually liked the films I'd say the video heavily favors the majority of posters here.

And these figures are your opinion. Unless you read though every poster's every post regarding the live action movies, you cannot possibly state those as accurate. We all have our opinions of the films as well as other aspects of the franchise, whether it be toys, comics, cartoons, whatever. I am not disagreeing that there are a lot of fans who think of themselves as elitist, holier-than-thou, especially when it comes to the movies. And the Internet is the main outlet for nerd rage. Especially places like this, where most of us can stay anonymous and hide behind a screen name and spew our cerebral bile at others, especially when it's something different than what others say. I have done this on occasion, and so have you. We all think we're right, that's why we say what we say. The difference in posters is their ability to handle when they're told/proven wrong. Some are mature and open-minded and after some measure of defense of their point of view, they accept having been mistaken. Some don't. On the other hand, there are those who stand on their little soapboxes and preach at others about how they should behave and look at this wonderful TF Universe.

I guess there's some measure of pride in being part of the 70%. Whatever pride that might be is horribly misplaced though. I'll stick with the vast numerically superior majority that enjoyed the films and aren't full blown Transformers fans. If these films taught me anything it's the immaturity of fandoms.

That's probably the best for all involved. I've been a fan of Transformers since 1984 and have been around the fandom since I had internet access. (Before that I didn't associate with a "fandom" I was just 1 of a bunch of friends who liked toys, comics and cartoons.) I already knew of the immaturity of fandoms before the movies came out.

Rodimus Prime wrote:And these figures are your opinion. Unless you read though every poster's every post regarding the live action movies, you cannot possibly state those as accurate. We all have our opinions of the films as well as other aspects of the franchise, whether it be toys, comics, cartoons, whatever. I am not disagreeing that there are a lot of fans who think of themselves as elitist, holier-than-thou, especially when it comes to the movies. And the Internet is the main outlet for nerd rage. Especially places like this, where most of us can stay anonymous and hide behind a screen name and spew our cerebral bile at others, especially when it's something different than what others say. I have done this on occasion, and so have you. We all think we're right, that's why we say what we say. The difference in posters is their ability to handle when they're told/proven wrong. Some are mature and open-minded and after some measure of defense of their point of view, they accept having been mistaken. Some don't. On the other hand, there are those who stand on their little soapboxes and preach at others about how they should behave and look at this wonderful TF Universe.

I'm completely aware of the fact I'm generalizing. I've also been called stupid, racist, sexist, anti-semetic and homophobic (the last one is a real head scratcher, considering I'm gay) on these very forums. I came here at first with a post that was essentially a plea for civil discourse when, after RotF's release and the approach of DotM, I saw the general reaction of the fandom was verbal attacks toward the film series' fans. The general response to that thread was simple: "There will be no civil discourse."

That's probably the best for all involved. I've been a fan of Transformers since 1984 and have been around the fandom since I had internet access. (Before that I didn't associate with a "fandom" I was just 1 of a bunch of friends who liked toys, comics and cartoons.) I already knew of the immaturity of fandoms before the movies came out.

I can feel your pain on that, but I didn't reconnect with the fandom until the films. I'd heard all about RuinedFOREVER!!! and TRUK NOT MUNKEY!!! but paid it no mind really. What brought me here was, as stated, the violent reaction of fans and critics. I think it's sad and more than a little pathetic that both have taken it upon themselves to judge not only the films (which is fine) but the fans of the films (which is not).

But the people I feel sorry for are the new fans, the young kids who like when I was there age discovered Transformers and might want to connect with others who share their love of the series. This isn't like when I was young in the 80's, these kids can easily connect to the internet and find fansites. The reception awaiting them is one that will be delivered by a militant, unfriendly group of people no matter which site they chose. Bay's film series was the second great revival of Transformers in the public conciousness and right now the Transformers fandom is going to make sure that any new fans turn their back quickly and leave. If I was a young kid new to the series thanks to the films, came here and got the same reception I did my thoughts wouldn't be, "Maybe I can find common ground with them." It would be, "Screw these nerds, I'm outta here."

When Transformers is looping the toilet bowl again, the fandom will have itself to thank.

Yeah, there are quite a few people who are borderline psychotic when it comes to picking a side over Bay's films, regardless of which side they choose. IT'S A MOVIE!!! Yes, I am also passionate about my favorite stories, characters, etc., but I don't get all bent out of shape because people don't agree. I admit, I used to, especially when it came to Rodimus. But I grew up a little since. My opinions haven't changed, but I do respect the difference between mine and the opinions of others, as well as others having the same rights to state theirs. But I guess that's another thing about the fandom: as you said, more and more younger people (13-17) are filing into the fandom and bring their first-time-experience with TFs into it. Which means they look at the TF Universe with Bay- or Animated-colored glasses. (Just picking the most recent complete works; and I loved Animated) I won't comment much on Prime, because I have seen very little. What I did see I liked. Anyway, with younger people come less maturity. There are quite a few people who were around when G1 or even Beast Wars came out (putting us into our late 20s-30s) but I'm going to make an assumption (yeah, I know what they say) that fans 26 and older are in the minority to fans 25 and younger. I agree with you on the amount of exposure and diversity of venues available to newer/younger fans as opposed to us (as I said, for me it was comics, toys and cartoon; in that order, which is why I am a huge Marvel fan) but just as with everything else online and due to technology these days, people just don't vest as much interest and time into things, and thus don't get as attached. Things become less valuable in terms of emotional investment, and it's the same for the TF Universe. This is also somewhat Hasbro and Takara's fault, as well as IDW and other sources, as some characters and stories have become so bastardized, they lose all uniqueness and special relatability. (Is that even a word?) Perhaps the most famous example is Optimus dying. In 1986 it damn near broke my heart, and I wasn't even a big Optimus fan. Now, I just shrug when it happens. It kinda took me aback a bit in RoTF, but maybe because it was on the big screen and my ears and eyes were totally under assault. (In a good way )

OK, before I write a novel, let me just say that not everyone in the fandom is the same and not everyone is responsible for all the good or bad things that are said and done. I know you know this because in a previous post you broke the fandom up into percentages. But regarding your last statement, I have to disagree when you lump everyone together. It's not fair to those of us who are mature and smart enough to take a step back and look at things with a level head. And yes, I count myself one of these fans. I may have grown up on G1, but I am most certainly not TRUKK NOT MUNKY!!! and there's very little I dislike about the TF Universe as a whole when it comes to products, whether they be toys or series. I do have my favorites, but that doesn't mean I disregard others with different opinions. (I'm not saying you're doing this, I'm just speaking for myself.)

And lastly, I wholeheartedly disagreed with Roger Ebert on RoTF and DotM. I think he reviewed DotM so poorly just to spite the people who gave him crap about his RoTF review. But, he looks at it as a general moviegoer not as a TF fan, and it's just his opinion. Clearly, by the bank these films made, not many listened to him. I certainly didn't. Then again, I am generally opposing of critics of any kind, unless it's someone who's been there and done it before, which Ebert certainly hasn't.

Well Rodimus if it makes you feel better you're in that "civil 5%" I mentioned.

However I must recall that recently I was in line for Battlefield 3's midnight launch and one of the people in line was a father with his young son, the latter of which was playing with a toy Sideswipe from DotM. I made the passing comment that his son has good taste (afterall who doesn't like Sideswipe) and from that me and his dad got into a discussion about the films, which we both liked.

Soon after we got approached by another fellow, a rather large man with a G1 Optimus Prime shirt and the autobot symbol stickered onto the back of his iPhone. Knowing we were discussing the film series the first words in my head were, "Oh boy, here we go..."

When he spoke out in favor of our liking the three films, well, to say I was gobsmacked would still make me the master of understatement. We kept up our discussion until midnight when the game launched and we parted ways, but it was nice to be able to talk to a long time fan about the films and not have it resort to the usual ad homonim from them.

And that's the sad part. This discussion was the exception, not the rule. It has nothing at all to do with who liked or disliked what, but everything to do with civility and respect. Sadly the fandom at large knows nothing of these concepts, at least online. Could I be more respectful myself? Of course, however bear in mind that respect is earned by being respectful.

Capt.Failure wrote:Well Rodimus if it makes you feel better you're in that "civil 5%" I mentioned.

Sadly, where I live, I rarely come across people with whom I can have a pleasant conversation about Transformers.

Rodimus Prime wrote:How can you get respect if you don't give respect to get it? Only way, is if the other person doesn't go by that theory.

It falls on the initiator of the conversation to attempt to be respectful. As for myself, I've lost respect for all but a few on these forums. Attempting to show respect got me personal attacks and snide insinuations from the majority. So yeah...

Capt.Failure wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:How can you get respect if you don't give respect to get it? Only way, is if the other person doesn't go by that theory.

It falls on the initiator of the conversation to attempt to be respectful.

Yeah, I realized this as I was re-reading my post.

As for myself, I've lost respect for all but a few on these forums. Attempting to show respect got me personal attacks and snide insinuations. So yeah...

Key is to not take it personally. The other day someone told me to eat **** and commit suicide, because I posted that I listened to a Lady Gaga song. Now, this poster has been belligerent recently, but not to me. So I wasn't sure if it was because of the song, or because the person was just inconsiderate. I didn't respond, partly because a moderator handled it by the time I saw it, and partly because these comments don't bother me anymore. Back in the day (like, when I joined this place 10 years ago) I would have flamed them until I got banned or they left. But now it just rolls off my back. (Lot of **** has happened in my personal life as well, giving me Rhinox skin (or an Iron hide; pick one ))

Anyway, it doesn't pay to be the moral police in places like these. You'll only be wasting your time and energy. People who post crap will sooner or later be washed away by it. Mark the few posters you really see optic-to-optic with and stick to conversations with them. Most inappropriate stuff is handled fairly quickly and swiftly by the mods here. Keep in mind that in the end, this is a fan board for fun and recreation. It's not a job or a life-necessity. If you treat it as such, it won't end well. It's like trying to put a square peg in a round hole.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:How can you get respect if you don't give respect to get it? Only way, is if the other person doesn't go by that theory.

It falls on the initiator of the conversation to attempt to be respectful.

Yeah, I realized this as I was re-reading my post.

As for myself, I've lost respect for all but a few on these forums. Attempting to show respect got me personal attacks and snide insinuations. So yeah...

Key is to not take it personally. The other day someone told me to eat **** and commit suicide, because I posted that I listened to a Lady Gaga song. Now, this poster has been belligerent recently, but not to me. So I wasn't sure if it was because of the song, or because the person was just inconsiderate. I didn't respond, partly because a moderator handled it by the time I saw it, and partly because these comments don't bother me anymore. Back in the day (like, when I joined this place 10 years ago) I would have flamed them until I got banned or they left. But now it just rolls off my back. (Lot of **** has happened in my personal life as well, giving me Rhinox skin (or an Iron hide; pick one ))

Anyway, it doesn't pay to be the moral police in places like these. You'll only be wasting your time and energy. People who post crap will sooner or later be washed away by it. Mark the few posters you really see optic-to-optic with and stick to conversations with them. Most inappropriate stuff is handled fairly quickly and swiftly by the mods here. Keep in mind that in the end, this is a fan board for fun and recreation. It's not a job or a life-necessity. If you treat it as such, it won't end well. It's like trying to put a square peg in a round hole.

Heh, not trying to be the moral police though I reserve my right to rant about it in frustration.

Capt.Failure wrote: It has nothing at all to do with who liked or disliked what, but everything to do with civility and respect. Sadly the fandom at large knows nothing of these concepts, at least online.

I think this sums it up perfect. People can like, or dislike whatever they want. But its how people go about expressing that like or dislike. And one of the biggest problems i have with those that don't like the movies within the fandom is the amount of disrespect they have for the people involved.
For whatever reason people love to take personal stabs at the actors, writers and Bay. we all know Bay got death threats and his house broken into by fans. After that people found ways to personally attack nearly everyone involved with the movies.
The most recent was in the thread regarding Rosie Huntion Whitely (sorry, I'm pretty sure i spelt her name wrong) in which she commented that Shia might be up for returning for a 4th movie. Someone made a comment..
"Who cares what this moron has to say!" She's stupid!"
Really? Was a comment like that about a person whom you've never meet in your life really necessary? The answer is no. No, its not. People also seem to love to take stabs at Shia. Again, completely unnecessary and indefensible. I read this ignorant comments and wonder how anyone can take the fandom seriously, or respect their opinions.

Now to be fair, this isn't just limited to the TF fandom. Nearly every "geek" fandom is guilty of this in some shape or form, but if people seriously want people to take them seriously and listen to them then these personal attacks need to stop.

5150 Cruiser wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote: It has nothing at all to do with who liked or disliked what, but everything to do with civility and respect. Sadly the fandom at large knows nothing of these concepts, at least online.

I think this sums it up perfect. People can like, or dislike whatever they want. But its how people go about expressing that like or dislike. And one of the biggest problems i have with those that don't like the movies within the fandom is the amount of disrespect they have for the people involved.
For whatever reason people love to take personal stabs at the actors, writers and Bay. we all know Bay got death threats and his house broken into by fans. After that people found ways to personally attack nearly everyone involved with the movies.
The most recent was in the thread regarding Rosie Huntion Whitely (sorry, I'm pretty sure i spelt her name wrong) in which she commented that Shia might be up for returning for a 4th movie. Someone made a comment..
"Who cares what this moron has to say!" She's stupid!"
Really? Was a comment like that about a person whom you've never meet in your life really necessary? The answer is no. No, its not. People also seem to love to take stabs at Shia. Again, completely unnecessary and indefensible. I read this ignorant comments and wonder how anyone can take the fandom seriously, or respect their opinions.

Now to be fair, this isn't just limited to the TF fandom. Nearly every "geek" fandom is guilty of this in some shape or form, but if people seriously want people to take them seriously and listen to them then these personal attacks need to stop.

The most hilarious part about this are the members of the fanbase who rant that, in their words, "Bay has no respect for Transformers fans."

To that I ask a simple question: Between threatening his life and destroying his property and bombarding him with verbal attacks before the films even got off the ground what has the fandom done to earn that respect?

Note the emphasis on the word "earn?" Yeah, the Transformers fanbase lost their chance to earn respect from Bay the moment his name got put on the film by acting like crazed, murderous lunatics. The fact they even consider him in the wrong at all is laughable.

from my unique view point on this from being a internet TF poster/replier since 1997.

only a extremly small percentage of internet fans act out in fan rage,dis-respect,are super conceited & think their more superior than others. MOST OF THE TIME THESE GUYS KEEP GETTING BANNED OR SUSPENDED FROM THE MORE MATURE/RESPECTFUL TF MODERATED FORUMS.

This small percentage likes to keep repeating the same thing over & over. even going the extra mile by creating tons of new user names in a desperate effort to get their voice heard more & make their opinion seem like the majority.

Most of us,just ignore fans like this & try our hardest to keep things civial & as mature in discussion as we can.

this is why most TF fans left the old school usenet message boards. because trolls thrive on usenet because their is no moderation & such a inferior obsolete technology.

Oh dear… I can’t watch the youtube link that started this thread, but given the OP’s commentary, immediately assumed that it had to be the infamous Mrs. Optimus Prime’s latest incoherent rant about the fictional love of her life. Just the fact that I made that assumption probably says a lot about my own feelings reference extreme fans in general.

Which brings up this: One question I’ve never, ever gotten an answer to, from ANY fandom, is why the extremism is the first place? Why does everything have to be either/or? Hate or love? Basher or…or blind supporter, I guess? (I’m not sure what the usual fan term for the opposite of a basher is these days.) What about fans who have a more nuanced response, the ones who look at every new offering from a dual viewpoint, both objective and subjective, at the same time—where do they fit in? I mean, I KIND OF HATE certain aspects of DOTM in the same sense I loathe some of the Star Wars movie Revenge Of The Sith. And yet both movies have also given me the things I LOVE MOST out of both respective franchises to date. So what sort of label does that rate? If I went to a Transformer convention, would I get to wear both buttons, the I HATE BAYFORMERS and the I LOVE BAYFORMERS ones, together?

I also like dogs AND cats. Never did get some peoples‘ insistence over choosing only one or the other…never will…

Biddybot wrote:Oh dear… I can’t watch the youtube link that started this thread, but given the OP’s commentary, immediately assumed that it had to be the infamous Mrs. Optimus Prime’s latest incoherent rant about the fictional love of her life. Just the fact that I made that assumption probably says a lot about my own feelings reference extreme fans in general.

Which brings up this: One question I’ve never, ever gotten an answer to, from ANY fandom, is why the extremism is the first place? Why does everything have to be either/or? Hate or love? Basher or…or blind supporter, I guess? (I’m not sure what the usual fan term for the opposite of a basher is these days.) What about fans who have a more nuanced response, the ones who look at every new offering from a dual viewpoint, both objective and subjective, at the same time—where do they fit in? I mean, I KIND OF HATE certain aspects of DOTM in the same sense I loathe some of the Star Wars movie Revenge Of The Sith. And yet both movies have also given me the things I LOVE MOST out of both respective franchises to date. So what sort of label does that rate? If I went to a Transformer convention, would I get to wear both buttons, the I HATE BAYFORMERS and the I LOVE BAYFORMERS ones, together?

I also like dogs AND cats. Never did get some peoples‘ insistence over choosing only one or the other…never will…

I agree with this reply & i'm sorta the same way as being neutral.

I try to find a few positives even in stuff I really hate. examples: 1- I hate the live action TF movies dialogue,stories,plots,arcs,humans & some generic/inferior/amateur voice actors who voice some of the robots. HOWEVER MY POSITIVE is I find joy & satisfaction in the beautiful state of the art CGI ROBOT Designs in the movie.

other positives I find in Transformers toy lines I really hate/Loate. most of the time I find a few of the best designed TF toys in the most awfully designed TF toy lines of all time. like animated leader sized megatron being the best megatron that transforms into a vechicle. beastmachines ultra sized jetstorm being a awesome design. TM2 Tigerhawk being the best designed beastwars toy.

I must admit with IDW,I'm running out of positive reasons to keep buying the TF on-going Comics.

while I don't really like the TF prime cartoon. I like how it mimicks the animated cartoon a bit by having bulkhead,ratchet & optimus.

Biddybot wrote:Oh dear… I can’t watch the youtube link that started this thread, but given the OP’s commentary, immediately assumed that it had to be the infamous Mrs. Optimus Prime’s latest incoherent rant about the fictional love of her life. Just the fact that I made that assumption probably says a lot about my own feelings reference extreme fans in general.

Which brings up this: One question I’ve never, ever gotten an answer to, from ANY fandom, is why the extremism is the first place? Why does everything have to be either/or? Hate or love? Basher or…or blind supporter, I guess? (I’m not sure what the usual fan term for the opposite of a basher is these days.) What about fans who have a more nuanced response, the ones who look at every new offering from a dual viewpoint, both objective and subjective, at the same time—where do they fit in? I mean, I KIND OF HATE certain aspects of DOTM in the same sense I loathe some of the Star Wars movie Revenge Of The Sith. And yet both movies have also given me the things I LOVE MOST out of both respective franchises to date. So what sort of label does that rate? If I went to a Transformer convention, would I get to wear both buttons, the I HATE BAYFORMERS and the I LOVE BAYFORMERS ones, together?

I also like dogs AND cats. Never did get some peoples‘ insistence over choosing only one or the other…never will…

The opposite term would be "fanboy," as in someone who thinks it can do no wrong. The more you know...

The video was actually a humorous but in my opinion spot on flash animation music video about nerds raging about things they don't like with the same outrage as if someone sprayed spraypaint all over the Mona Lisa. Quite simply it's a matter of fanbases being conservative groups, but in this case conservative about what is an acceptable state for the thing they love. This is why you'll get the classic fan arguement, "It's not a Transformers/Star Trek/Star Wars/Harry Potter/Lord of the Rings movie" when a movie comes out because there will be changes for various reasons, whether they're caused by production constraints, remaking classic series, or entering new stories into the existing franchise. The fact these films have catapulted what they love to massive success outside the core fandom is unimportant to them. At worse it's the reason they're so angry.

Your position on the matter goes by the internet terminology idort: to enjoy two sides of something which are supposed to be opposed. There's nothing wrong with being one contrary to the origin of the term, or with being able to recognize the flaws in what you enjoy while still enjoying it. Makes you a more mature fan in the long run.