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[Fearing]

One thing I don't get in your multiverse graph there is how any version of Exodus or WFC can logically fit with Prime. I have not read the Prime graphic novel yet, and perhaps that is the missing link, but in both WFC and Exodus, Dark Energon seems to be fairly well known to everyone, but in the first episodes of Prime, it seems to be a new discovery (it's been a little while since I've watched those first episodes, so maybe I missed something there). This has probably been discussed elsewhere, but having a wife,2 young kids, etc, and seemingly no time anymore it's hard to find the time to check the forums too often. Since continuity is the big topic here and you seem to be as well versed as anyone, I figured I'd ask. Does the graphic novel explain this or am I missing something else? I had planned to check it out anyway, but I probably would sooner if it is important.

[Sabrblade]

One thing I don't get in your multiverse graph there is how any version of Exodus or WFC can logically fit with Prime. I have not read the Prime graphic novel yet, and perhaps that is the missing link, but in both WFC and Exodus, Dark Energon seems to be fairly well known to everyone, but in the first episodes of Prime, it seems to be a new discovery (it's been a little while since I've watched those first episodes, so maybe I missed something there).

This notion has been addressed, yes. That reaction to Dark Energon in the second episode was done so that viewers who had neither played the games nor read the book could be introduced to the stuff. Plus, in the third episode, Optimus and Ratchet both knew of the existence of Dark Energon, though Ratchet claimed that any source of it had become scarce.

However, millions and millions of years had passed between the time of the book/games and the time of the show. So, by then, the supply of Dark Energon could have gone dry during all that time. After all, the book did claim that its lasting effects were very brief.

Plus, the Dark Energon in the show is very different from that of the book/games. While the book pretty much had the Dark Energon needing a living host to wield it, the shows has it reanimating the dead instead. Whenever a Darkened Deceptcion would die in the book, the Dark Energon left its host corpse and would move onto another living vessel, while the show has it practically thriving on dead soldiers.

For this discrepancy, one could say that the Dark Energon in the show could be a different variant from the Dark Energon in the book/games. After all, the book dubbed Dark Energon the "Sparks of Unicron", while the shows calls it the "Blood of Unicron".

As for the Prime graphic novel, it's basically just a telling of how Cliffjumper, Arcee, and Starscream all got to Earth from Cybertron, as well as introducing us to the Vehicons and Breakdown (this means that Breakdown had been on Earth even before episode 1).

[trence5]

Ok, does any of these talk about the relation between Optimus Prime and Ultra Magnus?

[Sabrblade]

Ok, does any of these talk about the relation between Optimus Prime and Ultra Magnus?

I didn't go into this because the book doesn't cover this. Nor do the WFC game, the G1 cartoon, the Beast Era cartoons, the Unicron Trilogy cartoons, or the Movie fiction. Animated does have a relationship, but it's not one that be all that interesting to mention.

Had I brought it up, this is pretty much all I could have said about it.

The relationship between Optimus Prime and Ultra Magnus

• Ultra Magnus served under Optimus Prime's command as the leader of the Wreckers
• Ultra Magnus was not involved in the any of the console game's events
• Ultra Magnus served under Optimus Prime's command as the Autobot City Commander
• Ultra Magnus played no involvement in the Beast Era
• Overload (called Ultra Magnus in Japan) mostly served as a cannon combination upgrade for Optimus Prime
• The real Ultra Magnus was not involved in the events of the Unicron Trilogy cartoon, nor did he interact with Optimus Prime
• We know nothing the Movie version of Ultra Magnus, nor any relation of his to Optimus Prime
• Ultra Magnus is the Autobot Supreme Commander who gave Optimus his rank of Prime

Aside from maybe one or two points, there's not much of interest in this issue to be mentioned, and so I didn't bring it up.

It was mostly the RiD cartoon and the different comic series that go into this relationship, but I left those out since:

• The RiD cartoon didn't have enough backstory material to fit into this comparison,and
• I was going with what I'm most familiar with and omitted nearly all the comic stuff. I'm slowly trying to read them to better familiarize myself with them, but it's slow going and one user on here begged me to not add on to this since it'd be too much work for me.

[Fearing]

One thing I would add to this that I just thought of for some odd reason, is that because of the nature of the G1 cartoon and that it manages to contradict itself fairly substantially, the fact that Exodus contradicts it, by its nature, would not rule it out of being G1 canon. By the way the G1 cartoon already works, it'd actually fit in better and just fit the run of conflicting information that the show already has. Intended somewhat jokingly, but it does make a bit of sense. Obviously from an official standpoint, it's still not part of that universe(although I do remember reading something from the author saying he tried to make it vague enough and incorporate enough into it that if you wanted to fit it into your favorite version of the Transformers, you could somewhat justify it(again not it any real official way of course)), but just having that pop into my head, I thought I'd throw that out there.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

One thing I would add to this that I just thought of for some odd reason, is that because of the nature of the G1 cartoon and that it manages to contradict itself fairly substantially, the fact that Exodus contradicts it, by its nature, would not rule it out of being G1 canon. By the way the G1 cartoon already works, it'd actually fit in better and just fit the run of conflicting information that the show already has. Intended somewhat jokingly, but it does make a bit of sense. Obviously from an official standpoint, it's still not part of that universe(although I do remember reading something from the author saying he tried to make it vague enough and incorporate enough into it that if you wanted to fit it into your favorite version of the Transformers, you could somewhat justify it(again not it any real official way of course)), but just having that pop into my head, I thought I'd throw that out there.

I'll probably get crap for this but....the idea that the G1 cartoon "contradict itself fairly substantially" is a misconception.

Yes, there are some minor contradictions, but none that create a big continuity issue that can be called "substantial".

And I'm sure someone with drag out the "so called" contradiction in the Constructicons origin..........but I've said it before and I'll say it again.

Theres no real contradiction in the Constructicons origin, only a perceived one.

[Fearing]

Certainly there are ways to explain the apparent contradiction between things like the origin of the Dinobots vs the origin of the Aerialbots on the show, but there are equally ways (if a person really wanted to make the book fit) to explain away apparent contradictions between the book and the show
(the Star Wars and Halo universes have gotten really good at coming up with complete extra stories and such to explain what otherwise would be conflicting material). But as the original poster in this topic stated he was taking everything at the basest face value of appearances without having to come up with an explaination of things(or something to that effect). In which case, without some additional material, things in the show, like Wheeljack claiming he made the Dinobots, basically contradict the fact that later when trying to make the Aerialbots, they cannot just be made, but must be granted a spark. For the purposes of this thread where everything is at face value, is where my point is made.

[Cyberstrike]

One thing I would add to this that I just thought of for some odd reason, is that because of the nature of the G1 cartoon and that it manages to contradict itself fairly substantially, the fact that Exodus contradicts it, by its nature, would not rule it out of being G1 canon. By the way the G1 cartoon already works, it'd actually fit in better and just fit the run of conflicting information that the show already has. Intended somewhat jokingly, but it does make a bit of sense. Obviously from an official standpoint, it's still not part of that universe(although I do remember reading something from the author saying he tried to make it vague enough and incorporate enough into it that if you wanted to fit it into your favorite version of the Transformers, you could somewhat justify it(again not it any real official way of course)), but just having that pop into my head, I thought I'd throw that out there.

I'll probably get crap for this but....the idea that the G1 cartoon "contradict itself fairly substantially" is a misconception.

Yes, there are some minor contradictions, but none that create a big continuity issue that can be called "substantial".

And I'm sure someone with drag out the "so called" contradiction in the Constructicons origin..........but I've said it before and I'll say it again.

Theres no real contradiction in the Constructicons origin, only a perceived one.

Megatron meant to say: "that the Decepticons rebuilt them in those caves" in season 1. That's my opinion on that.

[Sabrblade]

But as the original poster in this topic stated he was taking everything at the basest face value of appearances without having to come up with an explaination of things(or something to that effect).

I did, however, say that I included some supplementary material such as the Animated AllSpark Almanacs and the Movie comics to accompany the information of the cartoons/movies.

And, like Sto said, the contradictions that exist within the G1 cartoon are very minimal when compared to the more blatant contradictions between the G1 cartoon and the Exodus novel. In the case of the G1 cartoon, its only a few bits and pieces that conflict with each other, whereas it's an entire history of events and entire personalities of characters in the Exodus novel that conflict with the G1 cartoon.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Certainly there are ways to explain the apparent contradiction between things like the origin of the Dinobots vs the origin of the Aerialbots on the show, but there are equally ways (if a person really wanted to make the book fit) to explain away apparent contradictions between the book and the show
(the Star Wars and Halo universes have gotten really good at coming up with complete extra stories and such to explain what otherwise would be conflicting material). But as the original poster in this topic stated he was taking everything at the basest face value of appearances without having to come up with an explaination of things(or something to that effect). In which case, without some additional material, things in the show, like Wheeljack claiming he made the Dinobots, basically contradict the fact that later when trying to make the Aerialbots, they cannot just be made, but must be granted a spark. For the purposes of this thread where everything is at face value, is where my point is made.

For the record, there isint much of a contradiction between the Dino's origin and the Aerial bots, when you examin how it was all explained.

yheres a difference between an "apparent contradiction" and an "actual contradiction".