Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

[DISCHARGE]

I always looked at Botcon as a celebration for Transformers. While knock offs being banned I can understand, but all 3rd party products? That's a shame.
All it will do is limit profits made by dealers. People who want them will
undoubtedly get them online anyway.

Listen, people are going to have these at Botcon, in hotel rooms, the trunks of their cars, under a bridge.

It's gonna work like the guy selling fireworks in the
parking lot of the local BP(yeah, I've bought them there).
You're gonna ask "Where's the good stuff?"
He's gonna size you up, point his finger in the air and whisper "Wait til this guy here leaves." He's gonna ask what you're interested in, you're gonna tell em and he probably will be able to help you out.
All the time you've spent getting illicit goods is gonna pay off. You're gonna get your fix and geek out in your hotel room with your buddies and the 3rd party stuff you worked so hard to procure.

[bvzxa]

I think it is a shot-in-the-face to fans. I get it's their ip, but with the exception of KO-Toys and some of TFC toys, many are trying to give a more faithful version of the characters than Hasbro is trying to do.

I see this getting tighter every year. I was impressed with most of the 3P stuff over the years. We already got Springer, a repaint of Cybertron Evac, and it was not a triple changer. Worse it didn't even match the comic they threw in.

Fans Project Warbot isn't perfect but it's close as to Springer as you can get.

I think they are worried about being upstaged by design, not by profit. FansProject enhanced many of the sorry repaints (Ultra Magnus) to a new level.

I don't attend Botcon. To be honest paying 10x to 50x mark-up for a repaint and slight remold is getting absurd now. And the way Hasbro has been playing their hand along with FP, I think I know why I am moving faster away from the hobby.

[AutobotCliffjumper]

I made a vlog about this along with a bunch of other stuff just yesterday. I think they are feeling the heat from 3rd parties and would rather just cut them out entirely. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_Gc9dJKm8c&feature=plcp&context=C4c53d5eVDvjVQa1PpcFPL92PPu7-l9kchmMXCtFPR_R6e5-i9nWc%3D
Check it out if you guys would like.

[DarkBowzer]

well it looks like besides box set and souvenier sets I will not be spending money at botcon. because if it isnt an affordable tf prime first edition toy or a 3rd party item. they will be saving me money.....

When third party is making your own **** product better than you hasbro/ takara WHAT THE **** DO YOU EXPECT TO HAPPEN?!?!??!?!?

We have asked for a G1 accurate Arcee that turns into a car, they give us excuses.WHen asked about it at last years botcon by my homie they gave a bullshit answer stating "if we do an Arcee it will only be used from the Arcee from the tf prime series. We have asked for numerous triplechangers like an official springer or a blitzwing we get more BS(and dont give me that horse shit about "they did a blitzwing for animated" because quite frankly I dont give a damn. 3rd party is giving us what we ask for in thier own way which actually breaths new life in toys that we would probably throw in a closet or on ebay(because honestly how many people would have kept a naked ultra magnus optimus prime repaint before just dismissing it as a cheesy pallet swap?) As much as I have stood by hasbro and some of the stupid shit they do And now asia is getting all this awesome shit I heard about and we are here in the states high and dry I have to say at this point **** them. I am 3rd party with good quality all the way this year.

[Gauntlet101010]

I doubt Hasbro if "feeling the heat" from 3rd parties. Look at what they're selling: movie toys, Prime toys ... anything except what the 3rd parties make. And they seem to be doing well for themselves.

But if you don't defend your IP you lose it. You just do. With that in mind ... I can understand what they're doing. It sucks and I'd be pissed were I going to Botcon (since all I've been getting lately are not-Transformers), but I can see what's happening.

[Kung Fu Man]

I would say they would do better defending their IP by not ensuring a Bumblebee to warm every shelf from every generation, or not releasing a toy of a character meant for collectors at one website only for over $150 when they know a third party is selling a representation of the character with higher distribution. But what do I know?

I'm well aware that they have corporate heads to answer to and so forth, and that's why we don't see the characters we want and so forth and so on. And yeah, it's their IP. Not to mention even if they did do a "no more third parties" move, their sales would probably be most unaffected.

Yet this still puts a sour taste in my mouth for Hasbro and Botcon on the whole.

[Burn]

Never understood why with all these 3rd party companies out there and all their rabid supporters who are so anti-Hasbro that they've never bothered to develop their own universe, their own characters, something that will set them completely apart from Hasbro and Transformers.

Oh wait, that would require originality, and it's so much easier to rip off an existing character that someone else owns.

[Che]

Oh no, here it goes again...

There was already a HUGE discussion about these news at tfw2005:

http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-conventions-get-togethers/543548-attention-botcon-2012-dealers-third-party-toys-banned-botcon-73.html

It has evolved to an interesting discussion regarding property rights. Summing up:

- Botcon has become Hasbro party and so Hasbro has the right to say who can sell what, although Hasbro doesn't have the police power to confiscate anything (but they can ask sellers to leave...)

- Property rights of concepts and designs (intangible things, no trademarks) are a great thing to reward innovation, that's why creators have exclusive rights of their creations for years, but after sometime those rights cannot be abused to justify monopolies, and that's why things should become public domain after the "reward period", especially old almost forgotten (neglected?) concepts and designs.

- There is no crystal clear line separating what is something original and what is an illegal cheap copy. Yes, when you just copy everything, that is pretty illegal, but how much modification is necessary to something become original (or at least not illegal)? Hercules has the concept of Devastator, but its engineering is much more complex, for example. HasTak also have modified some car designs just enough to avoid problems with their manufactures, so where is the line?

- Anyway, 3rd part has been growing enough (filling some voids left by HasTak) to start taking more risks and making original characters. I'm all up for more competition by creativity.

I'm tired now of this discussion, enjoy, I'm reading other stuff

PS: Ah, I forgot, please, this is not about love or hate HasTak or 3rd part companies, nobody is innocent and constructive critics putting passion a little at the side are always good.

[Court Jester]

This talk is a little too corporate-centric for a gathering of fans of transforming robots.

Confiscation of toys - under any circumstance - is douchebaggery - and I gotta call shenanigans. Sure, it's legal to do so. Sure, they have the right to stipulate anything under their official convention. But, this doesn't sound extreme to anyone? These are goods that have been legally bought by the dealers - most of which do not directly bootleg any official molds of Hasbro or actually cross the line of IP theft defined by the courts of our nation. But to take said goods without payment is just point. blank. wrong.

But if you're gonna take a stand like this, you make a statement to the fandom that embrace this part of the hobby (the customizer, the painter, the aspiring toy creator, the CAD modeler, the freelance line artist and colorist, the fanfictioner, the corner shop small business, and everywhere between). To me, that statement is this - don't bother with Botcon. No biggie. No resentment. Info simulated.

See you at TFCon - late July right? Encline is also hyping a Northern Cali convention (word spreads fast within our fandom).

[Kung Fu Man]

Never understood why with all these 3rd party companies out there and all their rabid supporters who are so anti-Hasbro that they've never bothered to develop their own universe, their own characters, something that will set them completely apart from Hasbro and Transformers.

Probably because people aren't so much attached to Hasbro as to the fictional representations of the characters seen in the cartoons, comics etc. People want that image they grew up with so they can lift that thing up and feel nostalgia. If someone wants Bruticus because they loved the character in Sunbow's cartoon, and you show them Fansproject's vs the WFC toy, which do you think they'll go for?