Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

[KUMA-NIN Maximus]

How are the names "Combat Master", "Jet Master", "Roller Master", "Chopper Master" etc. Hasbro names?

How about this, because you mistook my point: Autobot, Decepticon, Optimus Prime, Rodimus Prime, Jazz, Optimus Primal, etc.

In the Japanese series that are not made to be tied to Hasbro, these are names that Takara/Takara Tomy refused to use. Both Autobots and Maximals were Cybertrons. Decepticons and Predacons were known as Destrons (or Destrongers in one series). Both Optimus Prime and Optimus Primal were Convoy, and all other Primes were given the title of Convoy.

However... Takara Tomy has only recently used the Hasbro names for the three movie lines, Animated, PRIME, and this line. And with this line, its origins had it be a dumping ground for the Generations line and never before used molds. However, with the help of the Generations 2011 comic-based story and its two exclusives tied to the UNITED line, it appears that they might be changing their tune.

[/quote]Hydra has said that the first volume of the story will tell us exactly where it fits in relation to the other parts of the JG1 cartoon continuity.[/quote]

However, and no offense to him, but they would also have to explain the name changes when it comes to the main line. And also explain why Rodimus Prime does not look like his original G1 counter-part. These facts say that even if this can be connected to the Japanese G1 continuity, the names alone need to be altered for that timeline.

I see no connection to Macrocosmic Seekers in this aside from both being released under the United label.

When it comes to this story, it was an element that could happen in the Japanese G1 continuity for one reason - It happens a point before 2010. The characters were given new forms, but also returned to their original forms. And atop of that, despite the name changes (at least in the translations, which is a common theme these days), the events can be translated into 2010... While also being part of UNITED's 2010 timeline.

Don't forget that Pretender Gaiden is also a United story, yet it too is set in the JG1 cartoon continuity.

You are incorrect. Pretenders Gaiden was published in the first volume of Generations 2012. It was created as a tie-in to Super-God Masterforce, not UNITED. UNITED only consists of the story chapters published by e-HOBBY, the two stories published by Million Publishing, and has connections to War for Cybertron.

And with that said - Million Publishing only publishes the Generation books on behalf of Takara Tomy. And much like all other published works approved* by Takara Tomy, all stories (unless stated otherwise by Takara Tomy) are considered canon in their respected continuities.

(*: This includes previous errors like Sunstorm, and the Marvel/IDW continuity when it comes to MP-8X King Grimlock.)

The first two United manga stories have nothing to do with this.

Again, not true. The UNITED EX line is considered "wave 7" and continues Takara Tomy's business practice of using the Hasbro names (minus those created for this line, mind you). And the only continuity it has are the events published by e-HOBBY, Generations 2010, and Generations 2011 (volume 2). Beyond that, Takara Tomy has been extremely tight-lip about this line, but has made it be known that it does not share all of the original JG1 continuity.

So like I said - The UNITED line is no different than the Henkei! Henkei! line. As in the fact that it is an entirely new continuity that debuted in 2010, and uses existing molds from the Generations line... Which is ironic, name-wise... And other molds that were not previously used by them. And unlike Henkei! Henkei!, it uses Hasbro names in a seemingly ironic attempt at uniting the Hasbro continuity with something they can create.

Cool idea... And I might have to consider getting into, even though I am still awaiting for them to confess that this is their approach at creating an Aligned continuity.

[Sabrblade]

How about this, because you mistook my point: Autobot, Decepticon, Optimus Prime, Rodimus Prime, Jazz, Optimus Primal, etc.

None of which are used in United EX and will likely not be used in this story.

However, and no offense to him, but they would also have to explain the name changes when it comes to the main line. And also explain why Rodimus Prime does not look like his original G1 counter-part. These facts say that even if this can be connected to the Japanese G1 continuity, the names alone need to be altered for that timeline.

How do you know that any of those characters will be in this story? From what Hydra's said abotu this, it sounds like it'll be focsuing solely on the Master Class and Master Chaos characters on Earth while the characters you're referring to will be off fighting the war in space.

Again, not true. The UNITED EX line is considered "wave 7" and continues Takara Tomy's business practice of using the Hasbro names (minus those created for this line, mind you). And the only continuity it has are the events published by e-HOBBY, Generations 2010, and Generations 2011 (volume 2). Beyond that, Takara Tomy has been extremely tight-lip about this line, but has made it be known that it does not share all of the original JG1 continuity.

Your thinking of the United toyline and the United franchise as being the same thing, when one (the toyline) is but an aspect of the other (the franchise). The fiction is another aspect of the franchise.

This United EX story is not meant to tie in with the first two manga stories, which are a separate continuity. This United EX story that Hydra is talking about is not part of the United manga continuity.

[KUMA-NIN Maximus]

None of which are used in United EX and will likely not be used in this story.

And how do you know that? It is wave 7 of the toy line, based on what TFwiki has it listed. The name and label is the same, but only adds EX. And it is extremely unlikely that Takara Tomy is going to abandon the use of "Autobot" and "Decepticon" and go back to "Cybertron" and "Destron" for this line.

Point being what I am saying - The story, as it is going to be written, will be based on the UNITED continuity. However, it does not rule out any portion as a brief Japanese G1 continuity. It just requires Takara Tomy to say that it does, but the readers needs to remember the original names and titles used in that continuity while reading this.

How do you know that any of those characters will be in this story? From what Hydra's said abotu this, it sounds like it'll be focsuing solely on the Master Class and Master Chaos characters on Earth while the characters you're referring to will be off fighting the war in space.

So when did Autobot and Decepticon names become characters? And "Car Robots" is the official G1 event that happens between 2000-2003. And even then, the Cybertron Dimensional Patrol Team stayed on Earth until 2003, which is when the Generation 1 and Binaltech continuities split.

However, as I also pointed out, the event can be used for the Japanese Generation 1 continuity. The names have to be changed for the JG1, as they are not Autobots or Decepticons.

Your thinking of the United toyline and the United franchise as being the same thing, when one (the toyline) is but an aspect of the other (the franchise). The fiction is another aspect of the franchise.

Really. Because that is how they do things. For Generations 2009, they tied events from Binaltech with Henkei! Henkei! (most likely the in-packet stuff, but could be the manga series) by making a Skids/Screech combo pack, a Gentei! Liger, and a Gentei! Ghost Starscream. These three were made by Takara Tomy and not a separate "club" (see TFCC).

In Generations 2010, it introduced the toyline with a very short story. It was not until Generations 2011 where we would see an exclusive tied to this series (Stepper), hence why they had Simon Furman write a story that incorporates the Headmasters and Teargetmasters into the UNITED continuity. Prior to that, e-HOBBY made the same point I am trying to make by writing a storyline that ties into both UNITED and 2010, as well as making figure sets for this story.

Point being is that the UNITED EX toyline is part of the UNITED line. The story happens prior to the UNITED version of 2010 and Headmasters, and after the brief event introduced in Generations 2010. The usage of Autobot and Decepticon means that the story is written for the scarce UNITED timeline, and is being used during the time Car Robots happens (albeit that happens in Japan). And the comic/manga works tied to this are made to flesh out the franchise, and events like this... Mind you... Can be used to unite their entire Generation 1 timeline with events used for UNITED... But also can be added if they chose to do such.

This United EX story is not meant to tie in with the first two manga stories, which are a separate continuity. This United EX story that Hydra is talking about is not part of the United manga continuity.

Says who? Takara Tomy has made no such instance that validates this claim of yours. They are, however, the ones that authenticated the stories in hopes of fleshing out the toyline (as they did not give it the Henkei! Henkei! manga packet treatment), and giving fans a reason to purchase the UNITED versions of Stepper and Artfire.

So no offense to his knowledge as he can probably explain how this ties into both franchises. However, you are saying stuff that ignores a lot of facts tied to Takara Tomy. It upsets me when I have to question your knowledge, but I have to seeing how a lot of the facts mentioned by TFsource, TFwiki, and Takara Tomy's Transformers page say... And these do not match up with what you are telling me. And that causes my head to explode.

[STINGRAY749]

Well not buying any of these because I finally got all the pcc's made available to the U.S.

[KUMA-NIN Maximus]

Well not buying any of these because I finally got all the pcc's made available to the U.S.

I have to ask - Do you have Grimstone? He was the only one I originally wanted prior to the changes I made to my entire collection. However, I have a friend that might be interested in him, and I want to make sure that he is worth recommending to him.

Oh, and for those who may not be annoyed by me - I should make it clear that I will not be getting this line either. I would have been all over it if they made it a new toyline that happens between G-2 and Beast Wars. But since this is their answer to Generations and a few other molds, and lack of clarity to what events co-exist between this timeline and the original Japanese G1 timline... I have to let my limited budget talk me out of it.

And my limited budget is tied to something I will only explain if asked (privately), as it may help others understand me a bit better.

[DISCHARGE]

I don't really care what the storyline is. I want more drones.
I make my own storyline containing the PCC I have using the bio's
on the boxes for them.

The combos you can make are wild and I am always finding new ways to turn them into something unexpected

Destron Excavator

I think he would look even better with the construction or destruction drones(but I don't wanna open them)

OMG! He's combined and transforms

Kinda reminds me of Energon Scorponok

It's funny how Hasbro made these and people seemed to loathe the toys, but Takara may turn some people around(just with a storyline).

[gavinfuzzy]

I still want that Devastator... But not for $60... Seriously, this thing carries the same price tag as MP Sideswipe... Something is very wrong here.

It's around 6k yenn, while voyagers are around 4.5k yenn. In proportion, the hasbro PCC 5 packs costed less than a voyager when they were at retail. $45's the most I would go for something like this.

[Sabrblade]

KUMA, this story, this story that involves all new characters based on Earth while the existing ones are off in space, is set in the Japanese G1 cartoon continuity. Why? Because it is written to be so. It involves the Cybertrons known as the Master Class fighting against the Destrons known as the Master Chaos. My information comes from Andrew "Hydra" Hall, who has helped work on this story for TakaraTomy itself. He is one of the authors and has made ZERO indication that it will involve any other characters than the Master Class, the Master Chaos, and Professor Chip Chase. His saying that it takes place in the cartoon continuity means that it does not take place in the United manga continuity. Yes, it is a story that advertises United toys, but the characters these specific toys represent exist in the JG1 cartoon continuity. Hydra has even implied that these "Masters" could even be familiar characters given new names and forms for this story, like how Jet Master is someone who was born on Planet Zone. Yuo cannot dictate what continuity this story belongs in because you are not the one who wrote it. Hydra helped write it and he knows what he's doing. Before you jump the gun and start assuming things, please just hold off passing final judgement until the story actually comes out and explains where it is located, as it will do so. You have nothing to fear, as all will be made clear in due time. So let us just please wait and see what happens when the story is released.

[KUMA-NIN Maximus]

KUMA, this story, this story that involves all new characters based on Earth while the existing ones are off in space, is set in the Japanese G1 cartoon continuity. Why? Because it is written to be so. It involves the Cybertrons known as the Master Class fighting against the Destrons known as the Master Chaos. My information comes from Andrew "Hydra" Hall, who has helped work on this story for TakaraTomy itself. He is one of the authors and has made ZERO indication that it will involve any other characters than the Master Class, the Master Chaos, and Professor Chip Chase. His saying that it takes place in the cartoon continuity means that it does not take place in the United manga continuity. Yes, it is a story that advertises United toys, but the characters these specific toys represent exist in the JG1 cartoon continuity. Hydra has even implied that these "Masters" could even be familiar characters given new names and forms for this story, like how Jet Master is someone who was born on Planet Zone. Yuo cannot dictate what continuity this story belongs in because you are not the one who wrote it. Hydra helped write it and he knows what he's doing. Before you jump the gun and start assuming things, please just hold off passing final judgement until the story actually comes out and explains where it is located, as it will do so. You have nothing to fear, as all will be made clear in due time. So let us just please wait and see what happens when the story is released.

How is the fact that I know the entire Japanese Generation 1 continuity, as well as know how Takara Tomy is handling their own toyline, assuming anything... As well as "jumping the gun"?

Seriously. Takara Tomy is not Hasbro. Hasbro is the company that will create a Transformers toyline that has no real continuity to it what-so-ever. This is because in North America, they only target kids and collectors. And neither one tends to really care if Hasbro created a line that promotes a movie, comic, or anything of the like as long as they are supplied with something that is worth getting.

Both Takara and Takara Tomy, on the other hand, is the complete opposite. They will have a series, story, etc. be created for any toyline that they create. As Takara, this practice was done from 1987 (Headmasters) to 1992 (Operation Combination), when it comes to the original Japanese Generation 1 continuity. And with both UNITED and UNITED EX, Takara Tomy trying to do that once again for the Japanese fanbase. Which leads to my point - It can only bleed into the Japanese G1 continuity, but it cannot be entirely part of it as long as they solely use the Autobot and Decepticon faction names in the Japanese portion of the story.

That, and it is a good thing, Sabrblade. It means that he is allowed to have his name be mentioned as a contributor to a new continuity, along with Simon Furman and Guido Guidi. Which is the other point I was making, as that is way better than trying to dismiss all of the previous UNITED stuff, just to shove this into a timeline that will be overshadowed by Car Robots (JG1 timeline: 2000-2003, with Brave Maximus becoming part of Cybertron City).

[Sabrblade]

Okay, KUMA. Based ONLY on the information given to use here by Hydra, what is it exactly that you believe this story will entail that will make it not fit in the cartoon continuity?

What is it that is written in the quote boxes from the first post and NOWHERE ELSE, that makes this not be fit for the cartoon continuity? Please clarify?