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YouFearGalvatron wrote:This apologetic rubbish irks me to no end.

Where are all the men with b***s? Sometimes it feels like I am the only one left.

Apologist?

Let me give you a reality check pal.

A few years back I was in one of the biggest terrorist attacks on UK soil. An IRA bomb.
I KNOW first hand what terrorism is like.

But after that I DID NOT react funny to every single Irish person I met.
This was for several reasons.

1. I'm not a racist. I have an issue with terrorists, not a nationality they come from.

You keep talking about "them" and "your country".
Many of "them" are from your country, just like here.
They were born or lived in "our" countries all their life.
The only difference is their faith.


2. I'm not going to let the terrorists win. If I act funny towards every mulsim, if I see it as "us" and "them" I'm giving the terrorists exactly what they want.

You say you give the look to a woman in muslim clothing, you're doing what the terrorists want you to do.

If you have the balls you claim, you'd rather die treating all people as equals per the American way than compromise that because of a bunch of terrorists and act as they demand you act.

Be American, take the higher ground, look at all as equals and do not pre-judge, on colour, race or religion.
Live by that, die by that.
You have no greater weapon.

Lycanthropictendencies wrote:

YouFearGalvatron wrote:This apologetic rubbish irks me to no end.

Where are all the men with b***s? Sometimes it feels like I am the only one left.

Apologist?

Let me give you a reality check pal.

A few years back I was in one of the biggest terrorist attacks on UK soil. An IRA bomb.
I KNOW first hand what terrorism is like.

But after that I DID NOT react funny to every single Irish person I met.
This was for several reasons.

1. I'm not a racist. I have an issue with terrorists, not a nationality they come from.

You keep talking about "them" and "your country".
Many of "them" are from your country, just like here.
They were born or lived in "our" countries all their life.
The only difference is their faith.


2. I'm not going to let the terrorists win. If I act funny towards every mulsim, if I see it as "us" and "them" I'm giving the terrorists exactly what they want.

You say you give the look to a woman in muslim clothing, you're doing what the terrorists want you to do.

If you have the balls you claim, you'd rather die treating all people as equals per the American way than compromise that because of a bunch of terrorists and act as they demand you act.

Be American, take the higher ground, look at all as equals and do not pre-judge, on colour, race or religion.
Live by that, die by that.
You have no greater weapon.

Thanks Leeam Neeson. Your training has guided me well.

WTF? are these quotes from the Batman Begins training scenes?!

Listen man, I was in counter-intel. I know what the terrorists want okay. They want to slither in undetected, not call attention to themselves. They want acceptance, and they want to appear as a "peaceful relegion". But they are not.

Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.

If the terrorists were, say, Scientologists, don't think I would keep an eye on Tom Cruise. So don't tell me this PC BS.

I likely have old Air Force BDUs with more experience in survival than you. I sure as hell know more about jihadists than you, because you think the world is powered by unicorn farts and rainbows and that Mohammed just wants to hold our hand!

Give me a break, really.

YFG I sincearly doubt that you were in counter inteligence; in fact with behavior like this I sincearly doubt that you have military experiance at all.

You are are entitled to your opinion; you however are not entitled to force an incorect assertaion on others through flaming or other abuse. Keep it up and I will report you to Cyber Bishop.

YouFearGalvatron wrote:Listen man, I was in counter-intel. I know what the terrorists want okay. They want to slither in undetected, not call attention to themselves. They want acceptance, and they want to appear as a "peaceful relegion". But they are not.

The terrorists don't want to be seen as a peaceful religion, they are self proclaimed extremists who want to spark a Holy War, they want us to fear all muslims, treat them differently, remain divided, they want regular muslims to feel victimised and resentful for being treated as criminals when they're not, they want those muslims to then turn to them so they can use them as weapons in their Holy War.

Intelligence agencies the world over know this, including the US.

If they were trying to gain acceptance as a peaceful religion, why on earth would they shout Jihad at every opportunity?
Unless you're now claiming that all muslims are terrorists?

My mom was in the USAF.

If she can do it, anyone can!

Also, why the HELL were Muslims in a place where the speciality is ham? I know a Muslim guy, and he said he can't eat pork.

EDIT: And YFG? I seroiusly doubt they let 12-year-olds into the USAF.

Shadowman wrote:My mom was in the USAF.

If she can do it, anyone can!

Also, why the HELL were Muslims in a place where the speciality is ham? I know a Muslim guy, and he said he can't eat pork.

EDIT: And YFG? I seroiusly doubt they let 12-year-olds into the USAF.

I am 25. Try checking my MySpace page and pictures before mouthing off for once.

http://myspace.com/fueledbyinstantramen

And when I speak of terrorists wanting to blend in, I refer to the US. No one would willingly call attanetion to themselves before striking.

Ever heard of a TERRORIST CELL?

Look it up please.

Jar Axel wrote:YFG I sincearly doubt that you were in counter inteligence; in fact with behavior like this I sincearly doubt that you have military experiance at all.

You are are entitled to your opinion; you however are not entitled to force an incorect assertaion on others through flaming or other abuse. Keep it up and I will report you to Cyber Bishop.

I admit I was out of line.

Do what you must.

I agree to disagree with you.

If you doubt my claims, I can take photos of my driver's license and DD214.

They reveal what I look like, my name, and most importantly, my RECORD of military service in the USAF.

Just ask and I will send them to you.

Until then, I ask that you don't insult me by denying my service out of hand.

I will tread lightly--please do apply the same template to your own behavior in the future.

These are Muslims are totally out of line..

First. Order something that doesn't have ham in the ingredients. Or leave. This isn't an Arab country... this is Canada.

Second. Is a restaurant really an appropriate place to pray? Really?

Third. This is not your restaurant. Don't ask people to leave so you can pray. You leave, and you pray where there is peace and quiet.

How obnoxious.

YouFearGalvatron wrote:And when I speak of terrorists wanting to blend in, I refer to the US. No one would willingly call attanetion to themselves before striking.

Ever heard of a TERRORIST CELL?

Look it up please.

I know what one is but that is not what they want, that's what they do.

It's like a criminal racket where they smash your business. They don't want to smash your business, they want you to pay. Smashing your business is how they get that.

You say you're in intelligence? Then you should know the difference between motive and method.

Earlier you said this:

YouFearGalvatron wrote:When I see a woman covered from head to toe in her relegious clothing, you are damn right I give her a look.

It is not right, but I am not going to get blown up if I have any say in the matter!

In your own words you say that's not right.
You grew up witha belief system and they have terrorised you into doing something that you yourself would normally consider wrong.

That's terrorism winning right there.
That's scaring you into changing.

And every time you or anyone reacts differently to a normal innocent muslim who, like you, is just freely expressing themselves, they feel punished for it.
In turn, the extremist babble about the west not accepting muslims then looks like it holds weight.

Again, that is terrorism winning.
Through fear they are using you to demoralise oridinary mulsims and creating a recruiting ground.

And when you get a situation like the one this thread is about, a situation which I called appallling as it's completely wrong, you again have terrorism winning.

If it wasn't for the political climate, part responsible for and part created by people like you, if it had been another group, this never would have made news, hell it never would have even happened, they'd have been told to get stuffed.

In my first post, the one you ignored when you chose to believe I was an apologist, I state that both the positive and negative discrimination is wrong, but that they're interwined.

As long as some people unfairly look at or treat any traditional muslim or even middle eastern person with suspiscion, others will try to make up for that and go to the other extreme.

If you stop with both and treat muslims as ordinary Americans as you did prior to 9/11, none of this would be happenning and no one would look like a terrorist's bitch.

Rally Racer wrote:These are Muslims are totally out of line..

First. Order something that doesn't have ham in the ingredients. Or leave. This isn't an Arab country... this is Canada.

Second. Is a restaurant really an appropriate place to pray? Really?

Third. This is not your restaurant. Don't ask people to leave so you can pray. You leave, and you pray where there is peace and quiet.

How obnoxious.

If I knew the Canadian national anthem, I would serenade you with it right now, RR.

Lycanthropictendencies wrote:

YouFearGalvatron wrote:And when I speak of terrorists wanting to blend in, I refer to the US. No one would willingly call attanetion to themselves before striking.

Ever heard of a TERRORIST CELL?

Look it up please.

I know what one is but that is not what they want, that's what they do.

It's like a criminal racket where they smash your business. They don't want to smash your business, they want you to pay. Smashing your business is how they get that.

You say you're in intelligence? Then you should know the difference between motive and method.

Earlier you said this:

YouFearGalvatron wrote:When I see a woman covered from head to toe in her relegious clothing, you are damn right I give her a look.

It is not right, but I am not going to get blown up if I have any say in the matter!

In your own words you say that's not right.
You grew up witha belief system and they have terrorised you into doing something that you yourself would normally consider wrong.

That's terrorism winning right there.
That's scaring you into changing.

And every time you or anyone reacts differently to a normal innocent muslim who, like you, is just freely expressing themselves, they feel punished for it.
In turn, the extremist babble about the west not accepting muslims then looks like it holds weight.

Again, that is terrorism winning.
Through fear they are using you to demoralise oridinary mulsims and creating a recruiting ground.

And when you get a situation like the one this thread is about, a situation which I called appallling as it's completely wrong, you again have terrorism winning.

If it wasn't for the political climate, part responsible for and part created by people like you, if it had been another group, this never would have made news, hell it never would have even happened, they'd have been told to get stuffed.

In my first post, the one you ignored when you chose to believe I was an apologist, I state that both the positive and negative discrimination is wrong, but that they're interwined.

As long as some people unfairly look at or treat any traditional muslim or even middle eastern person with suspiscion, others will try to make up for that and go to the other extreme.

If you stop with both and treat muslims as ordinary Americans as you did prior to 9/11, none of this would be happenning and no one would look like a terrorist's bitch.

1. You still don't know what a terrorist cell is, I submit this for further reading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorist_cell

2. The terrorists will "babble on" about the West's "decadence" or something else, no matter what. So no dice on your theory.

3. Comparing an overt organization like the mob, to a COVERT organization like a terrorist cell is like comparing an extrovert with an introvert. Oh and, btw, when the mob pays off bad cops, smashes businesses as you say, extorts politicians with blackmail, they are revealing themselves to the public. HUGE difference.

4. Listen, there are good Muslims, and bad ones. But if a green dog bites you, or you see it bite someone else, you tend to develop a distrust of all things green dog.

It is human nature.

It is called ADAPT OR DIE.

The British auto industry is one such example, which is why the Japanese decimated them, beginning in the 1970s. Just ask British-Leyland about that.

If you refuse to change with the times, you will be decimated. That is what 9/11 taught us.

So don't force your PC stuff on me, we will just have to shake hands and disagree on this matter. Or ignore it altogether, which is fine. This issue will not be solved on a forum dedicated to toys, I predict.

5. And speaking of "ignoring", you ignored my earlier post as well, it said I WAS in counter-intel. I am a civilian again, going to school as a Psych major. I stopped wearing the uniform in late 2005.

YouFearGalvatron wrote:1. You still don't know what a terrorist cell is, I submit this for further reading:

Actually, I do and nothing I have said suggests they're anything other than what you just pointed out.

Unless you think I missed your point about them being covert in which case I didn't.
I just disagreed when you said they want acceptance and to appear as a peaceful religion.

They do not, they just hide among those who are.
What they want is to be called up and allowed to further the damage that is already done.

YouFearGalvatron wrote:3. Comparing an overt organization like the mob, to a COVERT organization like a terrorist cell is like comparing an extrovert with an introvert

You're missing the point.

I'm not comparing the two in anything other than they do something not with the aim of doing it, but with the aim of achieving something else as a result.

It's like the difference between a man who shoots someone because he wants them dead, and shotting them because dead OR alive, the shooting sends a message to someone else.

YouFearGalvatron wrote:But if a green dog bites you, or you see it bite someone else, you tend to develop a distrust of all things green dog.

It is human nature.

It is called ADAPT OR DIE.

That's not completely true.

If you're bitten by a green dog, and you have little experience with green dogs, this is true.
If on the other hand you have years of experience with green dogs and know how seldom they attack, you don't tar all green dogs with the same brush.

Unless of course, the green dog is a species that's known for regularly attacking.

Adapting is one thing, making uninformed assumptions about a threat and living your life based on that is called paranoia.

Also, like I said, I'd rather die being true to all I believed than live having betrayed that, even if a little.

YouFearGalvatron wrote:If you refuse to change with the times, you will be decimated. That is what 9/11 taught us.

9/11 was the first attack on US soil but it's not the first terrorist attack ever.
Whilst the scale was unheard of, the message is old to every other country in the world.
The IRA killed HUNDREDS of people with attacks on UK mainland civillian areas.
It was adapt or die then too.

We refused because we weren't going to let a bunch of terrorists change us and we won.

Tell yourself there's no choice all you want but history has shown that there is.

YouFearGalvatron wrote:And speaking of "ignoring", you ignored my earlier post as well, it said I WAS in counter-intel.

Okay, I said are as opposed to was, that doesn't change anything, you should still know the difference between motive and method.

As for agreeing to disagree, I thought that's what we do here, discuss things.
Discussion is about the exchange of ideas and beliefs that seldom see people agreeing, not trying to force them on other people.
Once again, as with the assumptions about my views, assumptions on my experience in survivial and assumptions about my knowledge or lack of on matters such as this, assuming I'm "forcing" my ideas on to you couldn't be further from the truth.

But then I guess if I came across as a "green human" or whatever group you put people in, your mind was made up no matter what the reality is.

I mean I agreed with some points you made (that we shouldn't apologise for things etc), but because I disagreed in other ways you pushed me into one of your generalisations and put us at polar opposites of an argument.

Applied to real life, that's not called adapting to survival, that's called creating conflict where there is none, making enemies out of friends just to create an illusion of safety.
You don't have to be "PC" to see that's the weirdest, most counter productive damn survival technique there is.

YouFearGalvatron wrote:

Rally Racer wrote:These are Muslims are totally out of line..

First. Order something that doesn't have ham in the ingredients. Or leave. This isn't an Arab country... this is Canada.

Second. Is a restaurant really an appropriate place to pray? Really?

Third. This is not your restaurant. Don't ask people to leave so you can pray. You leave, and you pray where there is peace and quiet.

How obnoxious.

If I knew the Canadian national anthem, I would serenade you with it right now, RR.

Please don't. The only thing I meant by it is that they should know better than to impose religion on anyone... and this goes for everybody out there. It's common knowledge that no one likes to be put on the spot like that. It's not the fact that they're Muslims. They could have been Jewish (since they don't eat pork either), and still have said the same things, and my reaction would have been the same. It has nothing to do with the fact that I'm raging against them for their beliefs, but them as a rude bunch of individuals... simple as that.

Lycanthropictendencies wrote:

YouFearGalvatron wrote:1. You still don't know what a terrorist cell is, I submit this for further reading:

Actually, I do and nothing I have said suggests they're anything other than what you just pointed out.

Unless you think I missed your point about them being covert in which case I didn't.
I just disagreed when you said they want acceptance and to appear as a peaceful religion.

They do not, they just hide among those who are.
What they want is to be called up and allowed to further the damage that is already done.

YouFearGalvatron wrote:3. Comparing an overt organization like the mob, to a COVERT organization like a terrorist cell is like comparing an extrovert with an introvert

You're missing the point.

I'm not comparing the two in anything other than they do something not with the aim of doing it, but with the aim of achieving something else as a result.

It's like the difference between a man who shoots someone because he wants them dead, and shotting them because dead OR alive, the shooting sends a message to someone else.

YouFearGalvatron wrote:But if a green dog bites you, or you see it bite someone else, you tend to develop a distrust of all things green dog.

It is human nature.

It is called ADAPT OR DIE.

That's not completely true.

If you're bitten by a green dog, and you have little experience with green dogs, this is true.
If on the other hand you have years of experience with green dogs and know how seldom they attack, you don't tar all green dogs with the same brush.

Unless of course, the green dog is a species that's known for regularly attacking.

Adapting is one thing, making uninformed assumptions about a threat and living your life based on that is called paranoia.

Also, like I said, I'd rather die being true to all I believed than live having betrayed that, even if a little.

YouFearGalvatron wrote:If you refuse to change with the times, you will be decimated. That is what 9/11 taught us.

9/11 was the first attack on US soil but it's not the first terrorist attack ever.
Whilst the scale was unheard of, the message is old to every other country in the world.
The IRA killed HUNDREDS of people with attacks on UK mainland civillian areas.
It was adapt or die then too.

We refused because we weren't going to let a bunch of terrorists change us and we won.

Tell yourself there's no choice all you want but history has shown that there is.

YouFearGalvatron wrote:And speaking of "ignoring", you ignored my earlier post as well, it said I WAS in counter-intel.

Okay, I said are as opposed to was, that doesn't change anything, you should still know the difference between motive and method.

As for agreeing to disagree, I thought that's what we do here, discuss things.
Discussion is about the exchange of ideas and beliefs that seldom see people agreeing, not trying to force them on other people.
Once again, as with the assumptions about my views, assumptions on my experience in survivial and assumptions about my knowledge or lack of on matters such as this, assuming I'm "forcing" my ideas on to you couldn't be further from the truth.

But then I guess if I came across as a "green human" or whatever group you put people in, your mind was made up no matter what the reality is.

I mean I agreed with some points you made (that we shouldn't apologise for things etc), but because I disagreed in other ways you pushed me into one of your generalisations and put us at polar opposites of an argument.

Applied to real life, that's not called adapting to survival, that's called creating conflict where there is none, making enemies out of friends just to create an illusion of safety.
You don't have to be "PC" to see that's the weirdest, most counter productive damn survival technique there is.

You are so naive. I hope that keeps you warm at night.

You live in a world where some people who want you dead are redeemable. They are not, and they want you, me, everyone here under the earth because we exist.

Don't even get me started on how they want to commit genocide against Israel and her people.

Sometimes you have to thin the herd.

All this back-and-forth rhetoric is doing is agitating me. It is like a dog chasing it's own tail. I am restraining myself here because I like this site even more than thetf.net, tfw2005.com, etc.

If we were debating in person, I would not be so shackled. However I love this site and several of the memebers here are my friends, so in the interest of not getting banned, I will bow out of this one. We are not going to agree, so I will drop it.

I suggest you do the same, Lycanthropictendencies. This is the ONLY time I will tell you. I am being overly generous with you just doing that.

Now go listen to some John Lennon.

I too am agitated, not with the discussion, but with your constant arrogance, insults, and repeated telling me who I am and what I believe.

Lets get a few things straight.

YouFearGalvatron wrote:You live in a world where some people who want you dead are redeemable. They are not, and they want you, me, everyone here under the earth because we exist.

I don't believe that these people are redeemable. They're exactly what you just said, uncompromising hate filled monsters that want us dead.

Nowhere did I say otherwise.

I just said I won't fear ordinary muslims because that's what the terrorists want me to do.

I'm not gonna cower or change for a bunch of bullies.

Not ONE bit.

YouFearGalvatron wrote:Don't even get me started on how they want to commit genocide against Israel and her people.

I'm supposed to feel sympathetic?

I actually loathe the Isreali government as much as many of the terrorists.
I don't loathe the people, but they're suffering because of who they put into power, they can change that by voting.
If Isreali government, the jihadists and the N. Korean regime (as well as some of the other tinpot dictators) were suddenly wiped off the planet, not only would I not shed a tear, I'd be celebrating.

I'm not against war, I'm not the little John Lennon listening hippy your closed mind tells you I am, I'm just not a paranaoid bigot who sacrifices my country's way of life or beliefs as soon as it's a bit dangerous.

YouFearGalvatron wrote:I suggest you do the same, Lycanthropictendencies. This is the ONLY time I will tell you. I am being overly generous with you just doing that.

Sorry, is that a threat?

The whole gist of you restraining yourself and not being shackled I assume is supposed to be authorative or intimidating.

It's not.

Seriously man, if people's differing opinions make you so angry you have to struggle not to be banned, it's you who has the problem , not me.

I agree on one thing though, this discussion has more than run it's course.

You just keep flaming. I try to end the discussion and you will not end it.

I am getting CyberBishop involved.

I hope this thread is locked.

YouFearGalvatron wrote:You just keep flaming. I try to end the discussion and you will not end it.

If you imply things about me, I will correct you.
That's not flaming.

Flaming is insulting people, being volatile, displaying "threatening" behaviour, telling people they're this that or the other. Pretty much what you've been doing since you quoted me.

Get in touch with Cyber Bishop by all means. All I've tried to do is discuss the actual issues, not tell people they're wrong or hippies or that they live in false fairy tale worlds just because they disagree with me.

Locking this per request.

And a word to the wise gentlemen, let this argument end in with this thread.
Do not bring it to another thread.
If you two still feel the need to argue do it over MSN, Yahoo< ami or any other massinger service.