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Were these plot issues covered in the book?

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Were these plot issues covered in the book?

Postby GetterDragun » Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:20 am

If Sentinel crashed landed on the moon because he was attacked by Decepticons, when did he make his deal with Megatron?

If Sentinel was the only one that new space bridge technology, why did JetFire no how to use it in the second film.

If the cue randomly landed on earth, and Sentinel ship was shown being shot up leaving Cybertron, didi it just happen to randomly land on the moon, or did they some how sort of steer it there trying to get to the cube.

Why didn't Sentinel take the Matrix from Prime when he was offered it...seemed like a rational think to do.

Just some oddities I found in the film that I was wondering if the book addressed better.
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Re: Were these plot issues covered in the book?

Postby Autobot Megatron » Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:19 pm

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I haven't read the book, but I think I might know the answers to the first three.

1. Didn't sometime in the movie, Sentinel said he made the deal with Megatron before he left, and he was trying to reach him on Earth when he crashed on the Moon?

2. I think it was a different type of space bridge tech, like in ROTF it was more limited on distance and in DOTM it was for much farther distances.

3. Like I said, I believe Megatron landed there first, and Sentinel was trying to get to him, not the Cube.

As for the fourth, I don't know. Maybe he felt guilty and didn't want to become leader of the Autobots again since he was going to betray them.
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Re: Were these plot issues covered in the book?

Postby Insane Galvatron » Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:35 pm

There are a lot more problems trying to reconcile what little plot RotF had to DotM. Like, why would Megatron make a deal with Sentinal while following the Fallen? Why would he have tried to get the sun harvester going and destroy Earth, if he'd previously made a deal to bring Cybertron there to be restored? Was the Fallen aware of the deal with Sentinal? More importantly, why were there all those Decepticons just chillin on the moon under the dirt? How long were they hiding there? If they'd been there since the crash in the 60's, why didn't they come out in 2007 to help with that movie? Or in 2009 for that movie? Just having all these cons "hiding" on the moon as if they'd been there a while really conflicted with the previous movies.
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Re: Were these plot issues covered in the book?

Postby shaunmerritt » Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:03 pm

If Sentinel crashed landed on the moon because he was attacked by Decepticons, when did he make his deal with Megatron?

-Before he left... the other deceptican were not in on the plan so they still shot at the ship. Recall Starscream didn't know about the paln either.

If Sentinel was the only one that new space bridge technology, why did JetFire no how to use it in the second film.

-I dont think he invented "space bridging", he just created the pillars to travel great distances and to transport something as big as a planet using a space bridge.

If the cue randomly landed on earth, and Sentinel ship was shown being shot up leaving Cybertron, didi it just happen to randomly land on the moon, or did they some how sort of steer it there trying to get to the cube.

-I think it was a random event. If you recall... the decepticons were looking for Megatron, not the cube. They found Sam's eBay post with the glasses that had Megatron's location on them and they found out about the Cube from there. If you removed the cube from the first movie, you can easily tie the 1st and 3rd movies together story wise pretty well.

Why didn't Sentinel take the Matrix from Prime when he was offered it...seemed like a rational think to do.

-My theory is that he needed Optimus to be in charge of the autobots. Sentinel knew they wouldn't go along with his plan. So when time came to kick them off the planet, they all went... following Optimus' orders.
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The Trilogies together...time issues/plot holes?

Postby YRQRM0 » Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:46 pm

I know about the official discussion/review, but I thought it'd be easier to have this as its own topic...

Alright, maybe the novels, comics, and everything else that I unfortunately haven't read would clear all this up, but:

The Allspark crashes to Earth during B.C. times, after it's lost to Cybertron during the war. Megatron then comes, what, around the 1800's I thought? I need to rewatch the first movie. He apparently was going after the Allspark.

But in ROTF, we learn that the Primes were running around on Earth, before the war obviously, and the tomb of the Primes is created, the sun harvestor is buried, and The Fallen is SOMEWHERE, waiting for one of his seekers to discover the Matrix so he can use the sun harvestor. He's also waiting for the LAST Prime (Optimus) to be dead, before he can get up out of his chair. Also, we know Megatron wasn't just looking for the Allspark "to transform Earth's machines, and build a new army", but he was working for the Fallen.

In the third film, we learn that the Arc crashes around 1964 I think? Sentinel PRIME (a "great descendent" of the primes I suppose) is trying to meet up with Megatron on Earth, because they had the whole space bridge plan lined up.

So, my questions are:

1. What was Megatron doing when he crashed on Earth? Was he there to meet up with Sentinel, or was it under The Fallen's command? Or, was it both, just whatever came first?

2. Why was Megatron helping The Fallen destroy/ruin Earth, if he had planned for it to be the new Cybertron?

3. What was The Fallen doing between the tomb of the primes being created and ROTF? Was he hiding from Optimus? Did he know about Sentinel, since he's a potential Prime threat? Megatron definetly knew about him and the arc and all..did he mention it to The Fallen?

4. Also, when did the Matrix become "The legendary Matrix of Leadership"? I mean, it's cool and all, but wasn't it just a key? Optimus acted like it's been passed down forever..

5. Oh yeah, and apparently a decepticon army that can level a city has been on the moon, as well as there being tons of seekers around the world like Jetifre? AND Shockwave and his pet under Chernobyl? How the heck do the Autobots or someone not notice?

I know from a real life pov they didn't have all three planned out in the beginning..but still.
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Re: Were these plot issues covered in the book?

Postby GetterDragun » Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:03 pm

Insane Galvatron wrote:There are a lot more problems trying to reconcile what little plot RotF had to DotM. Like, why would Megatron make a deal with Sentinal while following the Fallen? Why would he have tried to get the sun harvester going and destroy Earth, if he'd previously made a deal to bring Cybertron there to be restored? Was the Fallen aware of the deal with Sentinal? More importantly, why were there all those Decepticons just chillin on the moon under the dirt? How long were they hiding there? If they'd been there since the crash in the 60's, why didn't they come out in 2007 to help with that movie? Or in 2009 for that movie? Just having all these cons "hiding" on the moon as if they'd been there a while really conflicted with the previous movies.


Good points. The more I think about TF 3 the more I don't like it. Can't they sit someone down to read the script and point out these major plot issues before filiming the movie?
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Re: Were these plot issues covered in the book?

Postby SlyTF1 » Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:16 pm

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Insane Galvatron wrote:There are a lot more problems trying to reconcile what little plot RotF had to DotM. Like, why would Megatron make a deal with Sentinal while following the Fallen? Why would he have tried to get the sun harvester going and destroy Earth, if he'd previously made a deal to bring Cybertron there to be restored? Was the Fallen aware of the deal with Sentinal? More importantly, why were there all those Decepticons just chillin on the moon under the dirt? How long were they hiding there? If they'd been there since the crash in the 60's, why didn't they come out in 2007 to help with that movie? Or in 2009 for that movie? Just having all these cons "hiding" on the moon as if they'd been there a while really conflicted with the previous movies.


Is it really that complicated? The original plan was to meet on earth because that's where the Allspark was (But Megatron crashed. Then the Ark did.) Then Plan B was to destroy earth because they assumed that Sentinel was completely dead, which is why The Fallen said that there was only one Prime left.

With the Decepticons hiding on the moon; I assumed that they had just gotten there and where in stasis waiting for the space bridge.
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Re: Were these plot issues covered in the book?

Postby Insane Galvatron » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:11 am

SlyTF1 wrote:
Insane Galvatron wrote:There are a lot more problems trying to reconcile what little plot RotF had to DotM. Like, why would Megatron make a deal with Sentinal while following the Fallen? Why would he have tried to get the sun harvester going and destroy Earth, if he'd previously made a deal to bring Cybertron there to be restored? Was the Fallen aware of the deal with Sentinal? More importantly, why were there all those Decepticons just chillin on the moon under the dirt? How long were they hiding there? If they'd been there since the crash in the 60's, why didn't they come out in 2007 to help with that movie? Or in 2009 for that movie? Just having all these cons "hiding" on the moon as if they'd been there a while really conflicted with the previous movies.


Is it really that complicated? The original plan was to meet on earth because that's where the Allspark was (But Megatron crashed. Then the Ark did.) Then Plan B was to destroy earth because they assumed that Sentinel was completely dead, which is why The Fallen said that there was only one Prime left.

With the Decepticons hiding on the moon; I assumed that they had just gotten there and where in stasis waiting for the space bridge.

But didn't those Russian satellites take pictures of the dark side of the moon and see the drag marks? That means those Decepticons moved the pillars between 1969 and 1972 since the Russian space program was shut down after that. So the Decepticons didn't just get there. They were there the whole time. So if Megatron was content to blow up our sun in the second movie because he thought Sentinal was dead, why not bring those troops to earth? I think even in this movie, they said that they knew Sentinal was dead and needed Prime to go get him because only the Matrix could revive him. So if that was the case back in the early 70s when they moved the pillars, Megatron would have to have been aware of Sentinal during RotF. Yet, instead of using the Matrix to revive him and restore Cybertron, he was going to use it to blow up the sun.
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Re: Were these plot issues covered in the book?

Postby Counterpunch » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:29 am

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Order of events as I see it:

1. Primes go to Earth for fuel, build harvester, find it to be inhabited by life, give up, The Fallen goes rogue.
2. War on Cybertron. The Fallen speaks to Megatron through the tomb thing in the books. The War is lost. Sentinel makes a pact with Megatron.
2.A) The Cube is shot into space. It's intelligent and redirects itself to Earth where the conflict will eventually take place.
2.B) Sentinel Prime leaves for Earth on account of either the Matrix or the Cube. He is shot down, Megatron believes him dead. No one else knows about the deal.
3. Megatron follows to Earth in search of the Cube.
4. Events of Movie 1.
5. Events of Movie 2. Megatron meets The Fallen in actuality and goes along with his plan assuming Sentinel is dead.
6. Rising Storm: Megatron finds Shockwave alive and information on Sentinel's moon crash.
7. Events of Movie 3.

It all does work if you assume that the random events leading to Earth were not random. We have to assume that the Primes' activities in the BC times were the instigator for both Sentinel and the Cube heading towards Earth. Everything fits (I think) if we assume those things.

EDIT: I think Sentinel did not take the Matrix because he HAD betrayed his and its ideals. I think the Matrix would have made him not commit planetary genocide and he knew that.
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Re: Were these plot issues covered in the book?

Postby karellan » Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:17 pm

For the most part, TF3 ignores all of TF2, which is probably for the best, because even on its own, TF2 makes no sense at all. Trying to fit it into the rest of the series is nearly impossible.

Just looking at TF1 and TF3, it makes sense. I think you just need to remember that the Decepticons probably don't give a crap about Sentinel Prime or the deal he made. It really wasn't all that advantageous for them. It was more like "If you want to help us, sure. Go ahead. This is basically what we were going to do anyway." The whole "bring Cybertron to Earth" thing was more Sentinal Prime's goal. The Decepticons were more about just wiping out earth. They could easily let him rot on the moon and not care until the third movie, where they're really running out of options.

When you throw the Fallen into the mix, you have to start wondering about the "only a prime can kill me" thing, which throws off everything. Of course, the idea that Megatron has a leader in that movie makes no sense on its face, and the fact that it's ignored in the third movie makes it even more mind boggling. I mean, for the autobots, it makes sense. Optimus Prime = leader, Sentinel Prime = previous leader. For the decepticons, it's Megatron = leader, The Fallen = other... leader? Or something? and then the third movie ignores it altogether.
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Re: Were these plot issues covered in the book?

Postby SlyTF1 » Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:18 pm

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karellan wrote:For the most part, TF3 ignores all of TF2, which is probably for the best, because even on its own, TF2 makes no sense at all. Trying to fit it into the rest of the series is nearly impossible.


It makes sense to me.
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Re: Were these plot issues covered in the book?

Postby Cthulhunicron » Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:38 am

SlyTF1 wrote:
karellan wrote:For the most part, TF3 ignores all of TF2, which is probably for the best, because even on its own, TF2 makes no sense at all. Trying to fit it into the rest of the series is nearly impossible.


It makes sense to me.


Care to enlighten us?
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Re: Were these plot issues covered in the book?

Postby Overcracker » Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:57 am

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I think it works kind of like CP said, only The Fallen is just a secondary plan that Megatron stumbles onto. He still had his Plan with Sentinel, but since he was frozen for centuries, and didn't know what had happened to Sentinel, he assumed the rods and sentinel perished.

As explained in ROTF, the seekers have been around for years on earth hiding in plain sight. Just because we didn't see it doesn't mean Shockwave and his sand worm thing weren't transformed into something else for a long time somewhere. And only recently started moving around.

Also Megatron is always one to have a backup plan. If he though Sentinel was dead, and the matrix was lost, there was no way of reviving him and getting the original plan to work. So he goes along with the Fallen in a new plan. Its only when the Matrix re-appears, and he sees the fallen 's plan crumbling to dust that he decides he may still be able to move forward with his original plan with Sentinel.

He had conveniently gathered the rods and stored them somewhere in the event he'd be able to use them.
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