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You know, I am very knowledgeable about Transformers, but I have never FULLY understood this. If the Core is Primus's Spark, Vector Sigma is just a super computer with all the Original Thirteen Primes's personalities (plus a unique one of its own), The Well Of Allsparks is the place where they are born from, then what exactly IS the Plasma Energy Chamber? My theory, is the Quintessons took part of the Core/Primus's Spark, put it into a container, and thus made The Plasma Energy Chamber......it would make sense, considering that Transformers need a SPARK to live (like how we need a soul).....guess that would explain how the Quintessons "gave" them Sparks. Leave your thoughts below, correct me if I am wrong please!

Completely wrong.
So far the G1 cartoon is still pretty much unaffected by the multiversal reboot, sure Hasbro has stated that this guy and that guy is a Prime and a multiversal singularity, but there is nothing that really ties them together.

There where also no sparks in the original show, and the plasma energy chamber is just that, the plasma energy chamber and does exactly what the toon says it does. But I can't remember what that was.

Well yeah, in G1. I am talking about The Covenant Of Primus, which fits into almost all continuities. So I am trying to fit everything together, like the book.

primematrix1986 wrote:Well yeah, in G1. I am talking about The Covenant Of Primus, which fits into almost all continuities. So I am trying to fit everything together, like the book.

Okay, in the Aligned Continuity (which the Covenant of Primus book and Exodus novel apply to), the Plasma Energy Chamber is merely a handheld object that serves as a power source of some great magnitude, as corrupting it and placing it into the Core of Cybertron allowed the Core to produce an endless supply of Dark Energon. Both books were pretty vague on the thing, though, and even confuse the reader as to why something small enough to be handheld is called a "chamber".

Also, the Quintessons didn't have a hand in creating the Transformers this time around, so they did not grant anyone on Cybertron a spark.


In the G1 cartoon, however, it was the foundry from which the original Autobots' bodies were forged millions of year in the past.

Seems logical enough. I can't remember if the Quintessons manufactured Transformers in this continuity or not. Anyhow, it would make sense I suppose, but why would Transformers make a handheld power source of great magnitude? Like, what is the purpose of it all? It is stored inside Telatran-1, and Omega Supreme is the guardian of it I suppose. Maybe it is what keeps Cybertrons power flowing? Kind of like the equivalent to power lines or satellites for humans, keeps the networks/power running.

primematrix1986 wrote:Seems logical enough. I can't remember if the Quintessons manufactured Transformers in this continuity or not. Anyhow, it would make sense I suppose, but why would Transformers make a handheld power source of great magnitude? Like, what is the purpose of it all? It is stored inside Telatran-1, and Omega Supreme is the guardian of it I suppose. Maybe it is what keeps Cybertrons power flowing? Kind of like the equivalent to power lines or satellites for humans, keeps the networks/power running.

More like a poopy writer who didn't really care about what he's writing for looked for nostalgic terms he could paste into his book to let make fans think it's cool, came across it and decided to use it, not understanding what it originally was and did, or what the word chamber means.
Or he kept using the term, and came to a scene that required the artifact to be held in one hand, and completely forgot about what chamber means and didn't care to check previous chapters and pages to realize his mistake.

I'm pretty sure Twilight is better written than Exodus.

Also, the Covenant of Primus does not apply to all continuities, and doesn't make a whole lot of sense on its own or for the continuity it's set in.

The Covenant Of Primus makes a lot of sense to me. See, in G1 The Plasma Energy Chamber was described as the place where the Quintessons forged the Autobots. That brings me back to A)that maybe the Quintessons took park of The Core and stored it in a conatainer of sorts thus making the Chamber. Those "synthetic" (or manufactured) Transformers have to get a spark somehow. If I remember correctly, I think The Covenant Of Primus mentioned them making robots, but again I cant remember exactly. It is just a little theory I have, trying to put everything together and that is what I got. B) Telatran-1 is basically the source of power that gave Cybertron "electricity" and the "computer battery" for Telatran-1 is The Plasma Energy Chamber. I think theory B seems more likely rather than logical though.

Dead Metal wrote:

primematrix1986 wrote:Seems logical enough. I can't remember if the Quintessons manufactured Transformers in this continuity or not. Anyhow, it would make sense I suppose, but why would Transformers make a handheld power source of great magnitude? Like, what is the purpose of it all? It is stored inside Telatran-1, and Omega Supreme is the guardian of it I suppose. Maybe it is what keeps Cybertrons power flowing? Kind of like the equivalent to power lines or satellites for humans, keeps the networks/power running.

More like a poopy writer who didn't really care about what he's writing for looked for nostalgic terms he could paste into his book to let make fans think it's cool, came across it and decided to use it, not understanding what it originally was and did, or what the word chamber means.
Or he kept using the term, and came to a scene that required the artifact to be held in one hand, and completely forgot about what chamber means and didn't care to check previous chapters and pages to realize his mistake.

But the Covenant also spoke of the Plasma Energy Chamber in the same circumstances as Exodus did, so its inclusion likely came from the Binder rather than from Irvine's own ideas.

primematrix1986 wrote:The Covenant Of Primus makes a lot of sense to me. See, in G1 The Plasma Energy Chamber was described as the place where the Quintessons forged the Autobots. That brings me back to A)that maybe the Quintessons took park of The Core and stored it in a conatainer of sorts thus making the Chamber. Those "synthetic" (or manufactured) Transformers have to get a spark somehow. If I remember correctly, I think The Covenant Of Primus mentioned them making robots, but again I cant remember exactly.

The Quints didn't come until long after the Cybertronians were already alive and made. All the Quints did was go "Hey, did you guys know that you can transform? No? Well, since you didn't know you already had that ability, we'll lie and take the full credit for that ability, claiming that we gave it to you as a gift from the stars when it's really been something that you all could do all along on your own, you just didn't know that you could and we shall exploit that ignorance of yours for our benefit."

Sabrblade wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:

primematrix1986 wrote:Seems logical enough. I can't remember if the Quintessons manufactured Transformers in this continuity or not. Anyhow, it would make sense I suppose, but why would Transformers make a handheld power source of great magnitude? Like, what is the purpose of it all? It is stored inside Telatran-1, and Omega Supreme is the guardian of it I suppose. Maybe it is what keeps Cybertrons power flowing? Kind of like the equivalent to power lines or satellites for humans, keeps the networks/power running.

More like a poopy writer who didn't really care about what he's writing for looked for nostalgic terms he could paste into his book to let make fans think it's cool, came across it and decided to use it, not understanding what it originally was and did, or what the word chamber means.
Or he kept using the term, and came to a scene that required the artifact to be held in one hand, and completely forgot about what chamber means and didn't care to check previous chapters and pages to realize his mistake.

But the Covenant also spoke of the Plasma Energy Chamber in the same circumstances as Exodus did, so its inclusion likely came from the Binder rather than from Irvine's own ideas.

primematrix1986 wrote:The Covenant Of Primus makes a lot of sense to me. See, in G1 The Plasma Energy Chamber was described as the place where the Quintessons forged the Autobots. That brings me back to A)that maybe the Quintessons took park of The Core and stored it in a conatainer of sorts thus making the Chamber. Those "synthetic" (or manufactured) Transformers have to get a spark somehow. If I remember correctly, I think The Covenant Of Primus mentioned them making robots, but again I cant remember exactly.

The Quints didn't come until long after the Cybertronians were already alive and made. All the Quints did was go "Hey, did you guys know that you can transform? No? Well, since you didn't know you already had that ability, we'll lie and take the full credit for that ability, claiming that we gave it to you as a gift from the stars when it's really been something that you all could do all along on your own, you just didn't know that you could and we shall exploit that ignorance of yours for our benefit."

Sabrblade wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:

primematrix1986 wrote:Seems logical enough. I can't remember if the Quintessons manufactured Transformers in this continuity or not. Anyhow, it would make sense I suppose, but why would Transformers make a handheld power source of great magnitude? Like, what is the purpose of it all? It is stored inside Telatran-1, and Omega Supreme is the guardian of it I suppose. Maybe it is what keeps Cybertrons power flowing? Kind of like the equivalent to power lines or satellites for humans, keeps the networks/power running.

More like a poopy writer who didn't really care about what he's writing for looked for nostalgic terms he could paste into his book to let make fans think it's cool, came across it and decided to use it, not understanding what it originally was and did, or what the word chamber means.
Or he kept using the term, and came to a scene that required the artifact to be held in one hand, and completely forgot about what chamber means and didn't care to check previous chapters and pages to realize his mistake.

But the Covenant also spoke of the Plasma Energy Chamber in the same circumstances as Exodus did, so its inclusion likely came from the Binder rather than from Irvine's own ideas.

primematrix1986 wrote:The Covenant Of Primus makes a lot of sense to me. See, in G1 The Plasma Energy Chamber was described as the place where the Quintessons forged the Autobots. That brings me back to A)that maybe the Quintessons took park of The Core and stored it in a conatainer of sorts thus making the Chamber. Those "synthetic" (or manufactured) Transformers have to get a spark somehow. If I remember correctly, I think The Covenant Of Primus mentioned them making robots, but again I cant remember exactly.

The Quints didn't come until long after the Cybertronians were already alive and made. All the Quints did was go "Hey, did you guys know that you can transform? No? Well, since you didn't know you already had that ability, we'll lie and take the full credit for that ability, claiming that we gave it to you as a gift from the stars when it's really been something that you all could do all along on your own, you just didn't know that you could and we shall exploit that ignorance of yours for our benefit."

Pretty much . I knew that the Quintessons came alone after by the way.

primematrix1986 wrote:The Covenant Of Primus makes a lot of sense to me. See, in G1 The Plasma Energy Chamber was described as the place where the Quintessons forged the Autobots.

slight correction.

In the G1 cartoon, The Plasma Energy Chamber was described as the place where the first autobots were forged ...............but there was no mention about who foraged them.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

primematrix1986 wrote:The Covenant Of Primus makes a lot of sense to me. See, in G1 The Plasma Energy Chamber was described as the place where the Quintessons forged the Autobots.

slight correction.

In the G1 cartoon, The Plasma Energy Chamber was described as the place where the first autobots were forged ...............but there was no mention about who foraged them.

Though not in the cartoon, but an external source does mention the Quints as the foragers: The 3H Wreckers comics (so it is true for at least those).

Sabrblade wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

primematrix1986 wrote:The Covenant Of Primus makes a lot of sense to me. See, in G1 The Plasma Energy Chamber was described as the place where the Quintessons forged the Autobots.

slight correction.

In the G1 cartoon, The Plasma Energy Chamber was described as the place where the first autobots were forged ...............but there was no mention about who foraged them.

Though not in the cartoon, but an external source does mention the Quints as the foragers: The 3H Wreckers comics (so it is true for at least those).

On top of that there where all the episodes that came before that episode that spelled it out pretty clearly that the Quintesons created the Transformers, and that the Autobot symbol was their "slabrand" or well, company logo.
So how people can question the Quintesons as being the forgers is kinda baffling.

Sabrblade wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

primematrix1986 wrote:The Covenant Of Primus makes a lot of sense to me. See, in G1 The Plasma Energy Chamber was described as the place where the Quintessons forged the Autobots.

slight correction.

In the G1 cartoon, The Plasma Energy Chamber was described as the place where the first autobots were forged ...............but there was no mention about who foraged them.

Though not in the cartoon, but an external source does mention the Quints as the foragers: The 3H Wreckers comics (so it is true for at least those).

true enough

Dead Metal wrote:On top of that there where all the episodes that came before that episode that spelled it out pretty clearly that the Quintesons created the Transformers, and that the Autobot symbol was their "slabrand" or well, company logo.
So how people can question the Quintesons as being the forgers is kinda baffling.

"baffling" really??? You find it "baffling" that some people doubt that Quintesons the forgers of the original autobots?

maybe I missed the episodes that showed the quints as trustworthy and great tellers of truth.

With everything we saw about the Quints in the g toon, is it hard for you to believe that they found robotic life on cybertron and enslaved it?

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:On top of that there where all the episodes that came before that episode that spelled it out pretty clearly that the Quintesons created the Transformers, and that the Autobot symbol was their "slabrand" or well, company logo.
So how people can question the Quintesons as being the forgers is kinda baffling.

"baffling" really??? You find it "baffling" that some people doubt that Quintesons the forgers of the original autobots?

maybe I missed the episodes that showed the quints as trustworthy and great tellers of truth.

With everything we saw about the Quints in the g toon, is it hard for you to believe that they found robotic life on cybertron and enslaved it?

Yes, it is hard for one to believe that that when Alpha Prime specifically said to Rodimus, "Prepare to look into the face of your creator!" and showed him an image of a Quintesson. He then continued to say, "Eons ago, Cybertron was a factory built by the Quintessons to manufacture robots. There were two product lines. Military hardware and consumer goods. These two product lines were the lineal ancestors of the Decepticons and the Autobots."

So, yeah, if it wasn't the Quintessons who made the first Cybertronians, then the first Matrix bearer, along with all of his successors, is the one who is lying.

Sabrblade wrote:Yes, it is hard for one to believe that that when Alpha Prime specifically said to Rodimus, "Prepare to look into the face of your creator!" and showed him an image of a Quintesson. He then continued to say, "Eons ago, Cybertron was a factory built by the Quintessons to manufacture robots. There were two product lines. Military hardware and consumer goods. These two product lines were the lineal ancestors of the Decepticons and the Autobots."

So, yeah, if it wasn't the Quintessons who made the first Cybertronians, then the first Matrix bearer, along with all of his successors, is the one who is lying.

or maybe............"Alpha" Prime was lied to and wasnt aware of cybertrons true history."Alpha Prime", wouldnt be lieing.......he would only be repeating the history he was taught, regardless of its accuracy.

BTW, I hate the names given to so many characters so long after the series ended

Again, after what we saw the Quints do in season 3, not the stuff we were told in flash backs, but the stuff we saw them do, is it hard to believe that they found life on cybertron as it was starting...maybe only a handfull of robots, barely independent or maybe like infants.

Seeing this as a wonderful "BUSINESS" opportunity, they take over the planet, enslave the populace, experiment on them and cybertron, learn how the robots were "born", and then convert the planet and its resources into a factory.

is that really so hard to believe knowing what they are capable of?

A better question would be why one would even come to think of that idea instead of going by what the cartoon itself told us was true?

Especially at the time when no other fiction existed to conflict with it (the Marvel Comics were established as their own thing, so they left the cartoon alone).

And why would Alpha or any of the Primes inside the Matrix be going off of misinformation when the Matrix itself was a storehouse of accumulated truthful knowledge? Are you willing to go as far as to suggest that the Matrix itself was comprised of fallacious info, when all evidence from the show points to the contrary?

Sabrblade wrote:A better question would be why one would even come to think of that idea instead of going by what the cartoon itself told us was true?

Because the cartoon also told us the the Constructicons were built on earth in 1984, but were also on cybertron at the start for the "great war" over 4 millon yers ago............and that they had earth alt modes millions of years before ever coming to earth

or that starscream also had a earth alt mode millions of years before coming to earth........and he had a cybertron mode s well in yet an other episode

The cartoon also told us in season 2 ,that only vector sigma could create TF type life........but didnt Wheeljack and Rachet create the Dinobots in season 1?

Especially at the time when no other fiction existed to conflict with it (the Marvel Comics were established as their own thing, so they left the cartoon alone).

excuse me?no fiction conflicted with the idea that the quints created the tfs?Have you forgotten season 3's "Call of the Primitives"?

Primacron's Assistant claims that he and THE Primacron had built some of the "primitive" Transformers way back in the past.

And why would Alpha or any of the Primes inside the Matrix be going off of misinformation when the Matrix itself was a storehouse of truthful knowledge itself? Are you willing to go as far as to suggest that the Matrix itself was comprised of fallacious info? when all evidence from the show points to the contrary?

"a storehouse of truthful knowledge"???

even after all these years we really dont know exactly what the matrix is and how "independent" it might be.It seems to have its own motivations.

as to why the Primes inside would be dispensing bad info......they can only teach what they were taught or witness themselfs.Its not like all the info in the matrix was easy to access, thees no reason to assume that all those Primes would have learned about their "possible true" origins from the matrix.,

Furthermore, we have no idea when the Matrix came into existence,if it was created/found after a few million years of cybertron slavedom, then it would only have the recorded knowledge of those that carried it.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:On top of that there where all the episodes that came before that episode that spelled it out pretty clearly that the Quintesons created the Transformers, and that the Autobot symbol was their "slabrand" or well, company logo.
So how people can question the Quintesons as being the forgers is kinda baffling.

"baffling" really??? You find it "baffling" that some people doubt that Quintesons the forgers of the original autobots?

maybe I missed the episodes that showed the quints as trustworthy and great tellers of truth.

With everything we saw about the Quints in the g toon, is it hard for you to believe that they found robotic life on cybertron and enslaved it?

Simple:
Show creators state Quints are the creators of the TFs in the cartoon, subplot started in movie but was cut from movie.
+
All evidence from the show points towards the TFs being created by the Quints.
=
Quints are creators

To question that is utterly pointless.

Dead Metal wrote:Simple:
Show creators state Quints are the creators of the TFs in the cartoon, subplot started in movie but was cut from movie.
+
All evidence from the show points towards the TFs being created by the Quints.
=
Quints are creators

To question that is utterly pointless.

Simple:
Anything stated by anyone outside of the series itself is not canon.Show creators or above it doesnt hold any weight in this kind of a debate.

+
Like wise for any info OR SUBPLOTS that was dropped from the toon or film.

+
All evidence from the show is subject to scrutiny because the source of the evidence is not exactly trustworthy.[the source being the Quints]

=
Quints CLAIM to be TF creators...........but theres no reason to trust their claims

Not to question that claim is utterly naive

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:Simple:
Show creators state Quints are the creators of the TFs in the cartoon, subplot started in movie but was cut from movie.
+
All evidence from the show points towards the TFs being created by the Quints.
=
Quints are creators

To question that is utterly pointless.

Simple:
Anything stated by anyone outside of the series itself is not canon.Show creators or above it doesnt hold any weight in this kind of a debate.

+
Like wise for any info OR SUBPLOTS that was dropped from the toon or film.

+
All evidence from the show is subject to scrutiny because the source of the evidence is not exactly trustworthy.[the source being the Quints]

=
Quints CLAIM to be TF creators...........but theres no reason to trust their claims

Not to question that claim is utterly naive

It is canon because it was actually used in the cartoon. It was also not the Quints to claimed to be the creators, it was the dead TFs in the Matrix that did. On top of that we saw that the Quints experimented with different kinds of products before settling on the TFs.

So yes Show creators stating it was the Quints + show showing us it was the Quints = It was the Quints.

It is naive of you to believe that you have any ground what so ever to contradict the show, since the Quints plot was always presented as fact, nothing in the show contradicts it.

And I'm not having this asinine debate with you just because you think you have a right to it because you "can see both sides of the argument" and don't like me stating facts as facts.

You want this debate? Go and check the whole show again and bring forth actual evidence or anything that would suggest that it's a lie. Go on, unless you find it, and with this I want episode number and scene including it's time mark, this will be nothing more than back when you debated why WFC is G1, or when you tried to disprove my claim that Batman as we know him today isn't the exact same Batman from his original appearance by proving it.

So yea, until then, you're still just a clown who only wants to waste my time.

Dead Metal wrote:You want this debate? Go and check the whole show again and bring forth actual evidence or anything that would suggest that it's a lie. Go on, unless you find it, and with this I want episode number and scene including it's time mark,

I already have provided that in a reply to SB and will now do so again........season 3's "Call of the Primitives".Primacron's Assistant claims that he and THE Primacron had built some of the "primitive" Transformers way back in the past.

There you go, I sited the name of the episode, the line of dialog and the character that spoke the dialog.If you still want the time frame and a vid clip I would be happy to provide it................but I'm sure you remember this episode well.

and I remind you, you asked for "evidence or anything" thatsuggest, the Quints being creators is a lie.Some one else claiming to have created some of the early transformers in the past does suggest the possibility the Quints lied.

this will be nothing more than back when you debated why WFC is G1,

sorry buddy but you seem to be mixxed up........I never argued that WFC was G1, as as matter of fact I pretty much argued the opposite due to characters like the Aerialbots [and others] being in it.I may have also , and very likely, argued the possibility of WFC as yet an other "G1" universe like Dreamwave ans IDW.

And I certainly cited the claims of the games creators, but thats not the same as arguing their claims.

or when you tried to disprove my claim that Batman as we know him today isn't the exact same Batman from his original appearance by proving it.

I wasnt trying to disprove anything in that conversation, I was just adding more info into the debate.

So yea, until then, you're still just a clown who only wants to waste my time.

dude, you know me better then that.I'm just trying to start up a friendly conversation or debate on G1 issues.Its been some time since I've partaken or even seen an interesting one around these parts.

Sorry you feel so harshly about it......I'll reply to the rest of your post now, feel free to ignore it if you like.

Nothing, absolutely nothing stated outside the fiction of the series is canon, even if some of it, or all of it ends up in the fiction at some point.s It only canon when its inside the fiction.

And even then the info is not beyond reproach or scrutiny.All information has an innate value, and that value is determined by the source of the info itself from within the series.

Yes, the dead Primes echoed the quints claims, but its extremely possible they didnt know any better.Each of those Primes seemed to be reciting history they lived thru, information they themselfs was given or taught.Not one of them seemed to know all of the history.And its not like the Matrix and its info was easy to retrieve.S theres no reason to believe the dead Primes would know any possible "secrets" of their creatio.

On top of that we saw that the Quints experimented with different kinds of products before settling on the TFs.

that helps my argument, it doesnt hurt it.

It is naive of you to believe that you have any ground what so ever to contradict the show, since the Quints plot was always presented as fact, nothing in the show contradicts it.

[/quote]

as I pointed out earlier..........season 3's "Call of the Primitives".Primacron's Assistant claims that he and THE Primacron had built some of the "primitive" Transformers way back in the past.

That serves as a bit of a contradiction.And again, the Quints cannot be trusted.

You do know what the Primitives were, right?

None of the Primitives where present prior to the war starting.


In the G1 toon Megatron is not really a Tansformer, he's actually a squid-like alien in a mechanical suite similar to the Utroms from TMNT.

I mean nothing in the show actually disproves that, sure one episode shows him from the inside, but we never see the inside of his head, so that's likely where the alien sits and controls the suite.
We also can't trust anyone in the toon stating that he's a Transformer, because the show has inconcistencies plus Megatron is the leader of the Decepticons and has proven himself as a big fat lier. And sure the creators and Hasbro may claim he's a Transformer, bt what they say doesn't cound cos they don't know ****.

And yea, it may seem stupid to argue that Megatron isn't a TF, but a squid in a suite, considering that it's pretty obvious he's a TF. There is nothing there that actually really disproves the possibility that he's a squid thing, and we can never be sure until the show actually tearms him apart in all of his parts. But then again, the squid is also invisible.


That is called an unfalsifiable claim, I'm not going to link to a dictionary explanation of the term, because I know that you have your own definition for words and don't care for my definition of words, or the definition of dictionaries.
But at least you now know what your idea of "having a constructive argument" is called.

Sabrblade wrote:You do know what the Primitives were, right?

I know it was vague, and some see it differently.

But I took "primitives" as animal based transformers.