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What I am disliking about the new 'aligned' continuity

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What I am disliking about the new 'aligned' continuity

Postby burning_sirius » Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:59 am

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So, we are at another major revamp of Transformers and surprise, some transfans like me are not happy though I think I think I am legit (we all do). I am not labeling this ruined forever. It just does some reconfiguring of the cosmology.

For one I was always under the impression that Liege Maximo was the originator of the Decepticons. Now, they have the Fallen as the 'creator or originator' of the Decepticons.

I always thought that the Fallen hijacked the legitimate Decepticon movement. According to Grimlock at the end of the G1 Marvel run, Primus used the Decepticons and Autobots as a form of competition so that this conflict would bring out the best in the Transformer race.

Anyways that is my rant.
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Re: What I am disliking about the new 'aligned' continuity

Postby robofreak » Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:04 am

Well, the story gets rebooted all the time. Quintessons went from being the originators, to Primus. Now we have another continuity.

At this point, the G1 story arc is so mixed and muddled, that I've chosen to piecemeal my own version of the G1 story arc together.

Don't think of it as ruined, but as stuff you had not thought of.
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Re: What I am disliking about the new 'aligned' continuity

Postby burning_sirius » Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:13 am

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robofreak wrote:Well, the story gets rebooted all the time. Quintessons went from being the originators, to Primus. Now we have another continuity.

At this point, the G1 story arc is so mixed and muddled, that I've chosen to piecemeal my own version of the G1 story arc together.

Don't think of it as ruined, but as stuff you had not thought of.


Possibly, though the Quintesson and Primus origins were explained nearly at the same time period.
I am just disappointed that Maximo does not get any screen time. Though Furman created both Maximo and the Fallen, Revenge of the Fallen really left a distaste about the Fallen in my mouth.

The whole face of the Fallen = Decepticon symbol is funny since the Decepticon symbol is based on Soundwave's face.

Maximo is legit evil who, from what I can tell, would ally with Primus to defeat Unicron. He is the true constant of evil. The Fallen is the traitor. Why would the Decepticons love Cyberton and be pro-Cyberton if they were a faction descended from the Fallen?

Piecemeal canon is fun especially when you consider the origins of the Constructicons. I accept all origins in my personal canon :D.
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Re: What I am disliking about the new 'aligned' continuity

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:06 pm

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burning_sirius wrote:For one I was always under the impression that Liege Maximo was the originator of the Decepticons. Now, they have the Fallen as the 'creator or originator' of the Decepticons.


But exactly why would you have that impression?

Liege Maximo only had 2 official appearances and neither revealed much about him.
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Re: What I am disliking about the new 'aligned' continuity

Postby Shadowman » Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:18 pm

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burning_sirius wrote:For one I was always under the impression that Liege Maximo was the originator of the Decepticons. Now, they have the Fallen as the 'creator or originator' of the Decepticons.


In G1 cartoon, it started because the Military Goods wanted to pick a fight with the Consumer Goods, eventually becoming the Decepticons and Autobots. In The G2 comics they revealed that it may have been because of Liege Maximo, and then the G2 comics ended. In pretty much every other continuity, especially Aligned, the war and the Decepticons started because Megatron really wanted power.
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Re: What I am disliking about the new 'aligned' continuity

Postby Janus Prime » Sat Nov 05, 2011 2:22 am

Well, I think we´ll always have our personal canon, the things each of us choose as the "real story". Yes, it´s annoying when you don´t like the current continuity, but nothing really stops you from creating your own.
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Re: What I am disliking about the new 'aligned' continuity

Postby Shadowman » Sat Nov 05, 2011 2:56 am

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
Janus Prime wrote:Well, I think we´ll always have our personal canon, the things each of us choose as the "real story". Yes, it´s annoying when you don´t like the current continuity, but nothing really stops you from creating your own.


I never had a personal canon, and I never really saw the need for one. The real story is whatever official sources cite is the real story.
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Re: What I am disliking about the new 'aligned' continuity

Postby Janus Prime » Sat Nov 05, 2011 3:21 am

Shadowman wrote:I never had a personal canon, and I never really saw the need for one. The real story is whatever official sources cite is the real story.


Ho, you´re one of those guys :roll:
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Re: What I am disliking about the new 'aligned' continuity

Postby Rodimus Prime » Sat Nov 05, 2011 4:43 am

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As far as I'm concerned, the G1 comics is the real story. Everything else works around it. This is because it was my first introduction to Transformers and because the writing is very good, especially when Furman took over, as opposed to the cartoon, or even later comics from IDW. WFC and War Within can also be put in front of the G1 comics, it works well enough. Yeah, I know it's not "official" but it's as close to original as it gets. Other stuff, like Prime and Bayverse are extras. I know Prime is working on being hooked up with WFC, and that's fine. We'll see how it continues and what the story is for Fall of Cybertron.
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Re: What I am disliking about the new 'aligned' continuity

Postby Sabrblade » Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:22 am

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Ho, wish I had seen this sooner.

burning_sirius wrote:For one I was always under the impression that Liege Maximo was the originator of the Decepticons.
In the Marvel comics, yes. Not anywhere else.

burning_sirius wrote:Now, they have the Fallen as the 'creator or originator' of the Decepticons.
In just the movies, yes.

Neither The Fallen nor the Liege Maximo have been given any confirmed ties to the Aligned Decepticons as of yet. The Decepticon movement was started by followers of Megatron.

burning_sirius wrote:I always thought that the Fallen hijacked the legitimate Decepticon movement. According to Grimlock at the end of the G1 Marvel run, Primus used the Decepticons and Autobots as a form of competition so that this conflict would bring out the best in the Transformer race.
What has The Fallen to do with Marvel G1?

robofreak wrote:At this point, the G1 story arc is so mixed and muddled, that I've chosen to piecemeal my own version of the G1 story arc together.
Ermm... personal canons and fanons can get pretty nasty sometimes when collided with canon. :-s

burning_sirius wrote:Possibly, though the Quintesson and Primus origins were explained nearly at the same time period.
There has yet to be a solid retcon of Primus ever existing in the English-language G1 cartoon (the Japanese have and the Beast Era fiction has, but those aren't exactly the same thing as the English-language G1 cartoon).

burning_sirius wrote:I am just disappointed that Maximo does not get any screen time.
Episode 24 of Prime showed most of the Thirteen on screen. One of them was possibly the Liege Maximo.

burning_sirius wrote:Though Furman created both Maximo and the Fallen, Revenge of the Fallen really left a distaste about the Fallen in my mouth.
That movie left a distaste in my mouth, period! :P

burning_sirius wrote:The whole face of the Fallen = Decepticon symbol is funny since the Decepticon symbol is based on Soundwave's face.
Toy-wise. The fiction (to my knowledge) never made a connection between the :CON: and Soundwave's face. And for The Fallen's face being the source of the :CON: , again, that's just the movies. Even though his Aligned design was described as having a face shaped like the :CON: , it hasn't been shown to have had any such significance in the aligned fiction yet.

burning_sirius wrote:Maximo is legit evil who, from what I can tell, would ally with Primus to defeat Unicron. He is the true constant of evil. The Fallen is the traitor. Why would the Decepticons love Cyberton and be pro-Cyberton if they were a faction descended from the Fallen?
Because The Fallen promised Megatron he'd make Megs a Prime and so Megatron started the Decepticon faction. Plus, it was the name of The Fallen's original resistance army against the other Primes that included the original Seekers and Constructicons. Megatron simply recycled the term. But again, this is only in the movies.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Liege Maximo only had 2 official appearances and neither revealed much about him.
Not much, true. But enough to get the gist of him. ;)

Shadowman wrote:In G1 cartoon, it started because the Military Goods wanted to pick a fight with the Consumer Goods, eventually becoming the Decepticons and Autobots. In The G2 comics they revealed that it may have been because of Liege Maximo, and then the G2 comics ended. In pretty much every other continuity, especially Aligned, the war and the Decepticons started because Megatron really wanted power.
But didn't the Military Hardware bots who predated Megatron use the term "Decepticon" during the Second Cybertronian War in the cartoon?

Shadowman wrote:
Janus Prime wrote:Well, I think we´ll always have our personal canon, the things each of us choose as the "real story". Yes, it´s annoying when you don´t like the current continuity, but nothing really stops you from creating your own.


I never had a personal canon, and I never really saw the need for one. The real story is whatever official sources cite is the real story.
I mostly agree. Though I have thought of some fan stories that I've tried to work into canon stories without contradicting them (with not much success, that is), and have come up with some fan theories to explain some of the continuity errors of some official canons. And, I kinda liek to think of The One as God.

Still, I wholeheartedly accept any fanon ideas of mine as non-canon unofficial concepts of my own creation that hold absolutely no precedence over official canon. :-B

Rodimus Prime wrote:As far as I'm concerned, the G1 comics is the real story. Everything else works around it. This is because it was my first introduction to Transformers and because the writing is very good, especially when Furman took over, as opposed to the cartoon, or even later comics from IDW. WFC and War Within can also be put in front of the G1 comics, it works well enough. Yeah, I know it's not "official" but it's as close to original as it gets. Other stuff, like Prime and Bayverse are extras. I know Prime is working on being hooked up with WFC, and that's fine. We'll see how it continues and what the story is for Fall of Cybertron.
Official canon will and does disagree with you. :lol:
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Re: What I am disliking about the new 'aligned' continuity

Postby TulioDude » Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:26 am

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Think on The Fallen,not as the originator of the Decepticons,but as Megatron mentor.
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Re: What I am disliking about the new 'aligned' continuity

Postby Sabrblade » Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:36 am

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TulioDude wrote:Think on The Fallen,not as the originator of the Decepticons,but as Megatron mentor.
In the movies, but nowhere else.

But, then again, The Fallen did create his own faction of Decepticons long before Megatron created his.
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Re: What I am disliking about the new 'aligned' continuity

Postby Rodimus Prime » Sat Nov 05, 2011 10:58 am

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Sabrblade wrote:
Rodimus Prime wrote:As far as I'm concerned, the G1 comics is the real story. Everything else works around it. This is because it was my first introduction to Transformers and because the writing is very good, especially when Furman took over, as opposed to the cartoon, or even later comics from IDW. WFC and War Within can also be put in front of the G1 comics, it works well enough. Yeah, I know it's not "official" but it's as close to original as it gets. Other stuff, like Prime and Bayverse are extras. I know Prime is working on being hooked up with WFC, and that's fine. We'll see how it continues and what the story is for Fall of Cybertron.
Official canon will and does disagree with you. :lol:


Official canon can do that. I still like my version better. But it's just for me, the way I view the TF Universe. Official canon cannot and will not change that. Now, if I was an "authority" on the matter, I would definitely change it.
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Re: What I am disliking about the new 'aligned' continuity

Postby Sabrblade » Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:13 am

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Rodimus Prime wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
Rodimus Prime wrote:As far as I'm concerned, the G1 comics is the real story. Everything else works around it. This is because it was my first introduction to Transformers and because the writing is very good, especially when Furman took over, as opposed to the cartoon, or even later comics from IDW. WFC and War Within can also be put in front of the G1 comics, it works well enough. Yeah, I know it's not "official" but it's as close to original as it gets. Other stuff, like Prime and Bayverse are extras. I know Prime is working on being hooked up with WFC, and that's fine. We'll see how it continues and what the story is for Fall of Cybertron.
Official canon will and does disagree with you. :lol:


Official canon can do that. I still like my version better. But it's just for me, the way I view the TF Universe. Official canon cannot and will not change that. Now, if I was an "authority" on the matter, I would definitely change it.
Regardless, canon can, will, and does always trump fanon in the long run. ;)
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Re: What I am disliking about the new 'aligned' continuity

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:31 am

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Sabrblade wrote:Regardless, canon can, will, and does always trump fanon in the long run. ;)

Isint that really a matter of personal opinion
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Re: What I am disliking about the new 'aligned' continuity

Postby Sabrblade » Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:42 am

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sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:Regardless, canon can, will, and does always trump fanon in the long run. ;)

Isint that really a matter of personal opinion
In terms of precedence and canonicity.
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Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: What I am disliking about the new 'aligned' continuity

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:49 am

Motto: "Today is a good day to die......but the day is not yet over!"
Sabrblade wrote:
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:Regardless, canon can, will, and does always trump fanon in the long run. ;)

Isint that really a matter of personal opinion
In terms of precedence and canonicity.

well, its always a measuring game isint it???.Whats important to 1 person may not be to the next.
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Re: What I am disliking about the new 'aligned' continuity

Postby Sabrblade » Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:24 pm

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sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:Regardless, canon can, will, and does always trump fanon in the long run. ;)

Isint that really a matter of personal opinion
In terms of precedence and canonicity.

well, its always a measuring game isint it???.Whats important to 1 person may not be to the next.
I'm saying that something official matters more to canon than something fanmade.
If you've read Exodus, wanna read the War For Cybertron comic? PM me.
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Re: What I am disliking about the new 'aligned' continuity

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:43 pm

Motto: "Today is a good day to die......but the day is not yet over!"
Sabrblade wrote:
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:Regardless, canon can, will, and does always trump fanon in the long run. ;)

Isint that really a matter of personal opinion
In terms of precedence and canonicity.

well, its always a measuring game isint it???.Whats important to 1 person may not be to the next.
I'm saying that something official matters more to canon than something fanmade.

and what I'm saying is thats a mater of personal opinion.
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Re: What I am disliking about the new 'aligned' continuity

Postby Janus Prime » Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:54 pm

Yeah, ´cause fanon has never influenced or determined canon at all, right?
Off course it´s a matter of opinion, but I´ll say this. The Transformers franchise is a product, and product adapts to the market, not the other way around.
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Re: What I am disliking about the new 'aligned' continuity

Postby Rodimus Prime » Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:45 pm

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Sabrblade wrote:
Rodimus Prime wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
Rodimus Prime wrote:As far as I'm concerned, the G1 comics is the real story. Everything else works around it. This is because it was my first introduction to Transformers and because the writing is very good, especially when Furman took over, as opposed to the cartoon, or even later comics from IDW. WFC and War Within can also be put in front of the G1 comics, it works well enough. Yeah, I know it's not "official" but it's as close to original as it gets. Other stuff, like Prime and Bayverse are extras. I know Prime is working on being hooked up with WFC, and that's fine. We'll see how it continues and what the story is for Fall of Cybertron.
Official canon will and does disagree with you. :lol:


Official canon can do that. I still like my version better. But it's just for me, the way I view the TF Universe. Official canon cannot and will not change that. Now, if I was an "authority" on the matter, I would definitely change it.
Regardless, canon can, will, and does always trump fanon in the long run. ;)


That's up to the people in charge of said canon. I'm with sto_vo_kor on this one. It's a matter of everyone's own personal opinion.
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Re: What I am disliking about the new 'aligned' continuity

Postby Sabrblade » Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:50 pm

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Okay, here's what I'm trying to get across. If it's not something that was released under the license of Hasbro and/or Takara, then it's not canon. If it's not canon, then it doesn't effect the canonicity of the official Transformers fiction. Fanfics are not canon. Fan theories are not canon. Unless something is officialized by Hasbro, Takara, or an official person/persons working under the license of at least one of the two, then it is not part of the Transformers canon. And what isn't part of the TF canon holds a lower regard below what is canon, in reference to the overall TF canon.

Using the examples given before in Rodimus Prime's post, while he can consider the G1 Marvel Comics to be the main canon, that is true for his fanon but not for the official canon. In reality, there is no main transformers canon, since there are numerous TF canons that mostly all hold the same regard as each other without one dominating over the other (notice that I used the word "mostly", as there very well may be some canons that do take precedence over other canons).

Another example of his was saying how WFC and War Within are included in his fanon with Marvel G1. That's fine for his fanon, but in the long run, official canon says otherwise. The Marvel and Dreamwave continuities are separate canons, and WFC exists as another canon existing outside the whole TF multiverse.

We as fans can come up with as much fanmade material and concepts as we want. But at the end of it all, official canon still outweighs our fanons in regards to canon truth.
If you've read Exodus, wanna read the War For Cybertron comic? PM me.
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Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: What I am disliking about the new 'aligned' continuity

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:04 pm

Motto: "Today is a good day to die......but the day is not yet over!"
Sabrblade wrote:Okay, here's what I'm trying to get across. If it's not something that was released under the license of Hasbro and/or Takara, then it's not canon. If it's not canon, then it doesn't effect the canonicity of the official Transformers fiction. Fanfics are not canon. Fan theories are not canon. Unless something is officialized by Hasbro, Takara, or an official person/persons working under the license of at least one of the two, then it is not part of the Transformers canon. And what isn't part of the TF canon holds a lower regard below what is canon, in reference to the overall TF canon.


...and what I'm trying to get across to you is that ,canon, may not matter 1 bit to some people.Some things and maybe everything released under the license of Hasbro and/or Takara may amount to "squat" in the view of some people.

What canon is worth is a matter of personal taste.

For you,and I, canon trumps everything.For others, it anint word didly.
In reality, there is no main transformers canon, since there are numerous TF canons that mostly all hold the same regard as each other without one dominating over the other (notice that I used the word "mostly", as there very well may be some canons that do take precedence over other canons).


actually thats not correct.The problem here is that many mis-use the word Canon as if it can be used as the word CONTINUITY.

There are NOT numerous TF canons, there are numerous TF "CONTINUITIES", but they are all EQUALLY canon.

Continuity referes to a continuum of events
Canon refers to a body of works sanction and/or authorized

So, everything from Hasbro/Takara is canon, but not everything is in the same continuity
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
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T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach

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Re: What I am disliking about the new 'aligned' continuity

Postby Sabrblade » Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:14 pm

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sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:Okay, here's what I'm trying to get across. If it's not something that was released under the license of Hasbro and/or Takara, then it's not canon. If it's not canon, then it doesn't effect the canonicity of the official Transformers fiction. Fanfics are not canon. Fan theories are not canon. Unless something is officialized by Hasbro, Takara, or an official person/persons working under the license of at least one of the two, then it is not part of the Transformers canon. And what isn't part of the TF canon holds a lower regard below what is canon, in reference to the overall TF canon.


...and what I'm trying to get across to you is that ,canon, may not matter 1 bit to some people.Some things and maybe everything released under the license of Hasbro and/or Takara may amount to "squat" in the view of some people.

What canon is worth is a matter of personal taste.

For you,and I, canon trumps everything.For others, it anint word didly.
The bottomline is, fanon is not canon (until made official), and that's what matters.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
In reality, there is no main transformers canon, since there are numerous TF canons that mostly all hold the same regard as each other without one dominating over the other (notice that I used the word "mostly", as there very well may be some canons that do take precedence over other canons).


actually thats not correct.The problem here is that many mis-use the word Canon as if it can be used as the word CONTINUITY.

There are NOT numerous TF canons, there are numerous TF "CONTINUITIES", but they are all EQUALLY canon.

Continuity referes to a continuum of events
Canon refers to a body of works sanction and/or authorized

So, everything from Hasbro/Takara is canon, but not everything is in the same continuity
Yeah, the terms are often used interchangeably, but couldn't one see each individual continuity as an individual canon?
Last edited by Sabrblade on Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If you've read Exodus, wanna read the War For Cybertron comic? PM me.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: What I am disliking about the new 'aligned' continuity

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:27 pm

Motto: "Today is a good day to die......but the day is not yet over!"
Sabrblade wrote:And this is a problem
Its no problem

its personal taste

The bottomline is, fanon is not canon (until made official), and that's what matters.


no, what "MATTERS" is what each person thinks matters.

each persons likes, dislikes, ideas, they all MATTER

what canon says or does not say is of no importance to some, and you nor I can say it should matter.
]Yeah, the terms are often used interchangeably, but couldn't one see each individual continuity as an individual canon?


again, one and many could and do, but the text book definition of the word doesnt support it.

but hell, people mis-use 100's of words everyday, its not like they are going to stop anyday soon
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds

T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach

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