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When was Transformers first ruined forever?

There is more to Transformers than movies, cartoons, comics and toys. Discuss anything else Transformers here.

Postby Burn » Sat Oct 27, 2007 6:31 am

Lycanthropictendencies wrote:
Burn wrote:
tigertracks 24 wrote:Some new guys haven't so just try to ignore it if you don't like it, or start a thread you'd rather discuss. 8)


It's similar to the same thread that's started nearly each week in the movie forum.


2 points.

1. So what if it is?

Every week, at least 1 "the movie ruined Trasnformers/my childhood/my life" thread starts, but so does 1 "the movie is the best thing ever" or crediting the movie with saving or ressurecting a franchise that hadn't gone away and was doing fine for itself.
I don't go whining in all those overly positive threads about over reactions, false claims or repetative threads do I?

No. Because I respect people's opinion and right to express it.

People have opinions, either debate intelligently or avoid, just stop whining about those that differ to yours, or, like some in this thread, responding to comments not even made here.

It just makes you (the generalised you, not specifically you) look stupid.


Did you even read my post? I gave my points about how TF isn't ruined.

Funny how people over looked my on topic comments and decided to centre on my thoughts on how these sorts of threads are repeatative. ;;)

OH but look out! You "respect people's opinion and right to express it" yet here you are criticising me for having an opinion of my own ...

2. It is not similar to the other threads. It was a lighthearted joke, one that poked fun at fans who react to every change as though it killed the franchise dead.

If you wanna get angry, get angry at those that actually say something ridiculous, not those you wrongly assume say something because you can't be bothered to read their post or apply any form of context.


Sorry, don't see the difference between this "What do you think ruined Transformers" and the multitude of "Michael Bay raped my childhood" type threads.

Know why I don't see the difference? Because i'm sick and tired of all the negativity.

Okay, fine, that's not how it was intended. It was a joke, I get that. I just didn't find it funny, if anything it was flame baiting (what a suprise, a person takes it out of context, gives an opinion, flames ensure) yet, like I said, I still gave my thoughts on the actual topic of discussion.

So i'm sorry to disappoint you all, but I did contribute my thoughts to the central topic of this thread. But like I said, it was a joke filled with potential flame baiting. And lo and behold the flames did erupt simply because someone "didn't get the joke" because he was too busy trying to "debate intelligently".

Want to **** at me for taking something out of context? Then look in the mirror because people have obviously missed the part of my first post where I shared my opinions about TF being ruined, and isn't that taking things out of context as well? ;;)

But hey, you know what? So I took it out of context, conveying humour and emotion across the internet is not an easy thing to do, but seeing as I obviously have failed to grasp this particular joke (and will no doubt be branded as a humourless arsehole with a stick permanently lodged up his arse even though the majority of people here have absoloutely no idea what my sense of humour is like) I apologise for the derailing this thread and misintepreting the original intent of the thread's purpose.

And I liked Munkys as much as Pretenders. And Micromasters are infinitely cooler than Mini-Cons.
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Postby mechajol » Sat Oct 27, 2007 6:33 am

action masters
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Postby Sonray » Sat Oct 27, 2007 6:33 am

Lycanthropictendencies i kinda agree with people who say the movie saved the franchise....even though energon and cybertron and armada was out i kinda forgot all about my love for transformers, those series just didnt do anything for me. Then i heard the movie was coming out, now im transformer mad again. Its done the same to others too.

Before transformers to kids was just like "meh, who cares we got pokemon and gundam", now i go into a toy shop and the TF aisle always has some kids down it going "Oh look transformers! yay mummy can i get one!" (if only kids were always that cute, usually its filled with spoiled little brats whose faces i just wanna punch in but thats another story, my point remains)

I never heard that, or ever saw that transformers was as popular as they are now for years. Its all thanks to the movie. Nearly a billion bucks made world wide, almost all toy aisles sold out of movie transformers, a sequel already in the works. The very fact that transformers has a high-profile live action movie out for it is simple evidence that the saga has never been so popular. If there hadnt of been a movie, we'd still be plodding along with sub-par episodes of crappy cgi animated cartoon series'.
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Postby ThunderZap » Sat Oct 27, 2007 6:36 am

pretenders kinda ruin it for me
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Postby The Chaos Bringer » Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:07 am

Why all the BW hate? Did it not make articulation a high priority for TF design? Did it not start the whole size class thing to ensure that an expensive TF had more features than a cheaper one?(Unlike pretenders that cost as much as regular tfs but had less features) Did it not give us an amazing story and characters that are still being celebrated today?
I never expected to see such hate for it in a thread like this. After all, didn't BW SAVE TFs after years and years of financial failure?

Now on to what did ruin TFs forever. Human kids. G1 had it but the show still starred the Transformers. Now it's often told more from the point of view of the kids than the robots' POV.
It all started with RID. The decision was made to tell the opening story entirely from the POV of a human kid instead of the Transformers' POW. You can say this is something that ruined Tfs FOREVER because it was a bad idea that became tradition. Every TF show since has put the human kids in a starring role rather than a supportive one. And the tradition continues today with the movie and will continue with Animated next year. The decision has downgraded the quality of the shows and since it is going to continue this way with no end in sight it appears that the damage is permanant.
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Postby Sledge » Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:24 am

Ah, but didn't the over-emphasis on humans begin with the G1 episode B.O.T.? A quite interesting story about Swindle selling his fellow Combaticons for scrap plays second fiddle to a couple of kids and their science project. :-(

What I find quite ironic is that most of the things that RUINED TRANSFORMERS FOREVA!!!! were a new approach that brought new fans into the hobby, thus ensuring that Hasbro continue to make the damn things.
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Postby Lycantendencies » Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:20 am

Sonray wrote:Lycanthropictendencies i kinda agree with people who say the movie saved the franchise

Well the point I'm making is that it's partly true.

The franchise wasn't actually in trouble. Before the movie we heard that TF sales were good and so on, so the movie didn't save the franchise, but it did boost it.

However, it's also equally partly true to claim the movie "ruined" Transformers, creatively speaking.

A very simple, generic plot and minimal characterisation built around a series of action sequences works on the big screen, but it's not what kept the franchise going for 20 odd years.
It couldn't, and if a show followed the movie's style without the effects to woo people with, it'd fall pretty quickly.

In short, neither the movie is a saviour/ruiner is accurate, but neither is false.
It has, like all continuities, brought good things to the table and some bad ones too.
Both views have some merit to them, but both are also prone to people translating their love/hate of the movie to hold it solely responsible for any success or failures it will suffer from here on in.

Either we ignore those trying to validate their preference and discuss the real issues inside what they say, or we attack those that say the movie saved the franchise as much as those who say it ruined it, in the spirit of fairness.

Sledge wrote:What I find quite ironic is that most of the things that RUINED TRANSFORMERS FOREVA!!!! were a new approach that brought new fans into the hobby, thus ensuring that Hasbro continue to make the damn things.


Not ironic, nor actually accurate.
Change isn't good. It isn't bad either. It's change and it has both pros and cons.
Changing something may add something that brings in new people, but it may remove something that puts off others.

Look at BW. People walked, people came.
BW fans claimed the change is what made it so successful, BW haters claim the backpeddling tying to it G1 and the slow re-introduction of vehicles, changing it back, is what made it work long term.

The only truth we have is that the changes people claim ruin the franchise certainly do help reinvigorate it, but so far, Hasbro always ineivtably return to the traditional with these changes being played right into the background.

That they change back suggests that the change alone is not why they keep selling at that it may indeed hurt the franchise too.
Whether sticking with a change would ruin it forever is not a given, but it's not something we can say is false either.
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Postby Sonray » Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:32 am

lol, you just cant make up your mind dude! :P
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Postby City Commander » Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:13 am

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Has anyone on these damn forums read the wiki entry for 'Ruined Forever'?

You should do, then you'll understand the topic.

Before you post, go read the wiki entry.
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Postby Decepticon Spike » Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:14 am

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The Master Blaster wrote:Has anyone on these damn forums read the wiki entry for 'Ruined Forever'?

You should do, then you'll understand the topic.

Before you post, go read the wiki entry.

I have read it, and it's all a matter of opinion.
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Postby City Commander » Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:17 am

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PS I only read the front page of this thread :P



I can see what you mean Decepticon Spike, I suppose different things would ruin the franchise forever...


I suppose action masters would ruin it for some, while beast wars would ruin it for others.


I think there should be a poll to decide what first ruined transformers forever


I like polls :lol:
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Postby Sledge » Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:33 am

We can do polls? I didn't know! Ok, we need to start on the list. Once we've got all the things that ruined Transformers, we can do the poll and decide what REALLY ruined Transformers forever.

Ok, list:
*Munkys
*Hot Rod
*Optimus Prime dying
*Optimus Prime being resurrected
*Action Masters
* -Masters in general
*Michael Bay
*Armada

What else do we need for the definitive poll?
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Postby AxiomScion » Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:05 pm

In the order that they happened

*Autobots flying in mech mode.
*Humans

*Hot Rod
*Optimus Prime dying
*Wheelie
*TF procreation


*Master tech in general
*Pretender
*Optimus Prime being resurrected
*Action Masters

*Munkys

*Armada
*Fatimus Prime
*Cyberkeys


*Michael Bay

<hr>
We need to work in the Japanese series like RiD too.

Ginrai did it for me; that and the Bowel Movement. Armada's 1st comic didn't help either.
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Postby Susinko » Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:24 pm

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I personally don't think it was ruined in ANY way. There are some things I don't like. Like computer animation. But all in all, I'm okay with all the series. I enjoy seeing new angles in the Transformer universe. I take each new series as something new and NOT to be compaired to other series.
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Postby Decepticon Spike » Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:25 pm

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The Master Blaster wrote:PS I only read the front page of this thread :P



I can see what you mean Decepticon Spike, I suppose different things would ruin the franchise forever...


I suppose action masters would ruin it for some, while beast wars would ruin it for others.


I think there should be a poll to decide what first ruined transformers forever


I like polls :lol:

I like polls too, especially at strip clubs....oh, wrong kind of poll :grin:
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Re: When was Transformers first ruined forever?

Postby Golgo13:Professional » Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:08 pm

Sledge wrote:As the older fans will remember, the Transformers franchise is regularly ruined FOREVER. Prowl being a motorbike is simply the latest thing that's doomed Hasbro to certain bankruptcy. Minicons, beast modes and Michael Bay have similarly raped our childhood in the past. But what I'm wondering is: what was the first thing to ruin Transformers? Was it Headmasters? Pretenders? Or something else? Opinions, please.


TF first starting going downhill, suprisingly :PRAY: ,once they killed Optimus Prime. But everything from Headmasters to the present has been TF in name only to me. I am however starting to like some of the changes Michael Bay made...but just some.
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Re: When was Transformers first ruined forever?

Postby Seibertron » Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:13 pm

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Sledge wrote:As the older fans will remember, the Transformers franchise is regularly ruined FOREVER. Prowl being a motorbike is simply the latest thing that's doomed Hasbro to certain bankruptcy. Minicons, beast modes and Michael Bay have similarly raped our childhood in the past. But what I'm wondering is: what was the first thing to ruin Transformers? Was it Headmasters? Pretenders? Or something else? Opinions, please.


I strongly disagree with your statement. It is the very fact that the Transformers brand keep transforming themselves and incorporating such a wide variety of unique and entertaining features that has inevitably kept this franchise around for so many years. Sure there have been some not-so-great ideas, but I think overall many of the things you mentioned helped contribute to creating an environment that be favorable to a live action Transformers movie that pulled in over 700 million dollars in theaters worldwide and has made Transformers a multi-billion dollar toy brand for Hasbro over the years. But of those numbers are HUGE accomplishments that speak of the great success of the brand rather than the failures some of you believe have killed the franchise (when in fact it has more life in it right now than ever before).
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Postby Tigertrack » Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:20 pm

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While the franchise is not dead--it's more alive than ever, I still think the Quints gave it a heart attack that they needed to recessitated from...
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Postby Ramrider » Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:44 pm

AxiomScion wrote:In the order that they happened

*Autobots flying in mech mode.
*Humans

*Hot Rod
*Optimus Prime dying
*Wheelie
*TF procreation


*Master tech in general
*Pretender
*Optimus Prime being resurrected
*Action Masters

*Munkys

*Armada
*Fatimus Prime
*Cyberkeys


*Michael Bay


That and:

Arcee/female TFs

Quintessons (especially their creating the TFs in the 'toon).

Unicron's godhood, Primus, and by extension, Furball's incessant meddling (not my opinion).

Err... G2? Has anyone ever claimed that G2 'RTFF'? :-?
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Postby Wheeljack35 » Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:20 pm

For me it was season 3 og G1

No Optimus, Megatron or Starscream we got Rodimus and the insane Megs known as Galvatron instead.

the feel of the first two seasons was gone

What topped it off was a few years later with the horrible Pretenders line
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Postby Bumblebee-otch » Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:30 pm

i think everything has its highs and lows. look at spider-man comic books. those have gone from spectacular (no pun intended) like when peter david wrote a while back, to god-awful, like the clone saga. then it was later revitalized with the "ultimate" book, which is stellar. sure there are hiccups every once and a while, but that's all insignificant in the bigger picture.


(and how can something be "ruined forever" more than once?)
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Postby Marty Rocket » Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:40 am

I don't think one thing will ever ruin Transformers, nor do I think a collective number of things will ruin it, especially at this point since it seems so popular again (deservedly so).
To ruin it, I guess a number of factors would have to happen.

Somekind of new franchise for kids would have to come along and blow it away. Also, the main marketing machines for the toys (the cartoons and comics) would have to be so bad that complete interest in Transformers would be killed and it would dry up like it did after Generation 2 came out.
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Postby Dagon » Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:34 pm

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Sonray wrote:"raped our childhood" 8-|

FFS get a life people. This is the stupidest crock of **** when people say that...it really gets on my nerves.


I'm going with the whole "Bay raped my childhood" angle as being the forever ruining of the franchise, and fans brought that upon ourselves. You all who know me, you know I'm pretty hard core G1 but am open to change and things being different. I have no problem with the movie being different, and I like the new movie, but it suffers from much of what the downfalls of the newer Star Wars trilogy does: Terrible dialogue, very low levels of character development, and cheaply disposing of characters that had a world of potential (Bonecrusher) as well as having another character do one thing and one thing only for the duration of the movie (Ironhide, constantly commando rolling). Then, we get the most butt kicking characters either dieing cheaply or simply running away (Brawl took on Jazz, Ironhide, Ratchet, BB and a squad of Marines before being taken out by lame ass BB and a sabot round, Blackout wipes out an entire military base but a couple shots in the robo-groin from sabot rounds and he was dead, SS took on and took out Ratchet and Ironhide and then just left).

These, amongst other things, are not examples of raped childhood memories, but are the hallmarks of just plain old bad action movie making. But the insistance of some within the fandom to say our memories have been destroyed, pshhhht.
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Postby Dagon » Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:49 pm

Motto: "Ain't nobody got time fo dat....."
Weapon: Null-Ray Rifle
Dagon wrote:
Sonray wrote:"raped our childhood" 8-|

FFS get a life people. This is the stupidest crock of **** when people say that...it really gets on my nerves.


I'm going with the whole "Bay raped my childhood" angle as being the forever ruining of the franchise, and fans brought that upon ourselves. You all who know me, you know I'm pretty hard core G1 but am open to change and things being different. I have no problem with the movie being different, and I like the new movie, but it suffers from much of what the downfalls of the newer Star Wars trilogy does: Terrible dialogue, very low levels of character development, and cheaply disposing of characters that had a world of potential (Bonecrusher) as well as having another character do one thing and one thing only for the duration of the movie (Ironhide, constantly commando rolling). Then, we get the most butt kicking characters either dieing cheaply or simply running away (Brawl took on Jazz, Ironhide, Ratchet, BB and a squad of Marines before being taken out by lame ass BB and a sabot round, Blackout wipes out an entire military base but a couple shots in the robo-groin from sabot rounds and he was dead, SS took on and took out Ratchet and Ironhide and then just left).

These, amongst other things, are not examples of raped childhood memories, but are the hallmarks of just plain old bad action movie making. But the insistance of some within the fandom to say our memories have been destroyed, pshhhht.


BTW, I don't think the movie ruined the franchise, I'm just kind of in this mode right now where I'm noticing these loose ends in the film, or at least as I percieve it. I don't really know if the TFverse could be ruined forever, in reality or in joking. How many people really stopped posting on here because of their dislike of the movie or the movie toys? I think the fans are the only ones that can actually ruin the franchise, becuase I do know some people don't post here anymore because they dared say they didn't like something movie-related and were lambasted by blindly pro-movie fans that couldn't rectify the notion that opinions don't all have to be the same. I for instance don't like Deluxe Longarm, and man alive you'd think I was the worst person in the world because other people like Longarm and I dared say I didn't. Whatever. All of you who pee on Titanium Soundwave, he happens to be one of my favorite Titaniums, and I'm not bitching that you all don't like him.

Moral:::We ruin the things we love. To f$*k up something that you love is the essence of being a human being.
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Postby Blackstreak » Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:54 pm

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Transformers was first ruined in my opinion when they came out w/ RID. The cartoons were good for being Japanese, but when they imported them and did voice overs the cartoon sucked. They used typical one-liners and the kids got younger which is completely illogical for a race of war-torn robots. Every cartoon series since RID has sucked. If I buy a TF from any of those toy lines its because I like that character or design or whatever. The movie has long since restored my hope that there is a future for the Transformers.
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