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Which series do you consider to be "canon?" (cartoon and/or comic)

Discuss anything about the Transformers cartoons and comics! You can discuss anything from G1 to Cybertron as well as the comics from Marvel, Dreamwave, IDW and more!

Which series do you consider to be "canon?" (cartoon and/or comic)

Postby Delicon » Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:30 am

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Transformers history is a wacky thing. In the 1980's it seemed pretty simple as there was only the one show, although the Marvel comic definitely had some major differences. Beast Wars followed in the mid to late 90's and actually did a nice job creating new characters and backstory while staying pretty darn true to the G1 80's incarnations. Since then though, there have been a lot of different "Transformers Universes" and even when you're talking about something like the G1-verse, the Japanese cartoons and Dreamwave and IDW comics have spun that lore on its head at times.

My question is, in your own opinion, what Transformers cartoons or comics do you think represent the "real story" or the "primary universe?"

For me, as a child of G1, I still consider the old Sunbow cartoon to be the definitive source of what is "true and real" about Transformers. Sure, some aspects may seem a little goofy looking back now but for me the G1 cartoon is the real thing, along with Beast Wars because it stayed pretty true to that story and direction. I enjoyed the Marvel comic as well but between the 2 different writers and the fact that they had to tapdance around the animated movie, I felt the storyline spun into too many different directions at times.

When I see the modern stuff, even the stuff based on G1, I sometimes feel they take way too many liberties on it. For instance, since when is Galvatron a totally different Transformer from Megatron? There are a lot more, but that's just one example.

Discuss. ;)
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Re: Which series do you consider to be "canon?" (cartoon and/or comic)

Postby TulioDude » Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:47 pm

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I consider everthing that Hasbro or Takara release canon,but each in their own continuity:the cartoon is the cartoon,the comics are the comics and IDW continuity is their own.
But in my opinion both the cartoon and Marvel comics are good,but sice comics presents concepts that have not appeared in the cartoon i would consider that to be the "main" one.
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Re: Which series do you consider to be "canon?" (cartoon and/or comic)

Postby Chaoslock » Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:36 pm

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All of them are canon to me, but they are in separate continuities - though my personal favourite is Marvel US G1 comics.
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Re: Which series do you consider to be "canon?" (cartoon and/or comic)

Postby Slashercon » Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:59 pm

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As others have stated before, they are all canon. Just in their own continuities.
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Re: Which series do you consider to be "canon?" (cartoon and/or comic)

Postby Blurrz » Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:23 pm

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To me, everything is game... it's all part of the Transformers multiverse.
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Re: Which series do you consider to be "canon?" (cartoon and/or comic)

Postby Delicon » Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:16 pm

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I agree that in some instances you can just say "well, in an alternate universe it was like this" but some things, like who created the Transformers, etc. aren't exactly things that should be greatly varying from one to the other.
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Re: Which series do you consider to be "canon?" (cartoon and/or comic)

Postby Sabrblade » Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:38 pm

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For the longest time, I was a cartoon's-only thinker. As a kid, I was under the false belief that whatever happened in the cartoons and movies mattered, and that the comics/books/video games/etc. were of little importance.

BOY was I stupid wrong! I missed out on SO MUCH thinking that. :oops:

But even when I thought that, I still knew that RiD and the Unicron Trilogy (the Movies weren't yet out at that time) were separate universes from the G1/Beast Era cartoons. I just took those three universe as being the main ones, despite their being three instead of one.

Now, I know wholeheartedly that that simply isn't the case. There isn't one or three or any specific number of true continuities in the Transformers canon (though, they've counted as high as 75,890,008 ;) ), but millions and millions! And all of which hold weight to their validity in the canon.

Basically, anything made by or under the license of Hasbro and/or TakaraTomy is canon. There may be a few other exceptions to this, but that's how it is.

Delicon wrote:Transformers history is a wacky thing. In the 1980's it seemed pretty simple as there was only the one show, although the Marvel comic definitely had some major differences.
Especially consdering how it came first ad outlived the cartoon by four years. ;)

Delicon wrote:I enjoyed the Marvel comic as well but between the 2 different writers and the fact that they had to tapdance around the animated movie, I felt the storyline spun into too many different directions at times.
It was well more coherent a story than the cartoon was.

Also, "tapdance around the animated movie"? Image

Delicon wrote:For instance, since when is Galvatron a totally different Transformer from Megatron? There are a lot more, but that's just one example.
Image
Image
:P :P :P


Blurrz wrote:To me, everything is game... it's all part of the Transformers multiverse.
Not the Aligned stuff (WFC/Exodus/Prime/Exiles/FOC/etc.). It's "outside" the multiverse (but still canon). ;)

Delicon wrote:I agree that in some instances you can just say "well, in an alternate universe it was like this" but some things, like who created the Transformers, etc. aren't exactly things that should be greatly varying from one to the other.
Different worlds can have differing mechanics. Though, Primus is still credited as being the TF's creator-god throughout the multitude of continuities. The Quints in the cartoon can still be the ones who built them, but also could have been unknowingly doing exactly what Primus wanted by building the TFs. :-B
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Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: Which series do you consider to be "canon?" (cartoon and/or comic)

Postby Delicon » Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:58 am

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Sabrblade wrote:BOY was I stupid wrong!


I'll resist the urge to put that in my signature.
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Re: Which series do you consider to be "canon?" (cartoon and/or comic)

Postby DrLegend » Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:28 am

I always like to consider the G1 cartoon/Beast Wars as the main story with everything else a veritable "spin-off" of it. And that's not to say a spin-off is a bad thing but so far all of the shows have pulled from the original G1 show as a source of inspiration for the newer version.

After watching all of the episodes of Transformers Prime, I was very pleasantly surprised. It reminded me of the G1 stories in a lot of ways and in others it stood on its own. For me, that's very validating because it almost feels like they took my childhood, updated it, and repackaged it all nice, new, and shiny.
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Re: Which series do you consider to be "canon?" (cartoon and/or comic)

Postby Sabrblade » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:46 am

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DrLegend wrote:I always like to consider the G1 cartoon/Beast Wars as the main story with everything else a veritable "spin-off" of it. And that's not to say a spin-off is a bad thing but so far all of the shows have pulled from the original G1 show as a source of inspiration for the newer version.
Having finally sat down and read all of the Marvel G1 stuff, I now see more references to it in later cartoons than I see references to the Sunbow cartoon. At least, in regards to the cosmological and religious aspects (i.e. - the Primus/Unicron myth and such).

DrLegend wrote:After watching all of the episodes of Transformers Prime, I was very pleasantly surprised. It reminded me of the G1 stories in a lot of ways and in others it stood on its own. For me, that's very validating because it almost feels like they took my childhood, updated it, and repackaged it all nice, new, and shiny.
Even though it seems to make more callbacks to post-G1 material? Image
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Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: Which series do you consider to be "canon?" (cartoon and/or comic)

Postby Delicon » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:57 pm

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DrLegend wrote:I always like to consider the G1 cartoon/Beast Wars as the main story with everything else a veritable "spin-off" of it. And that's not to say a spin-off is a bad thing but so far all of the shows have pulled from the original G1 show as a source of inspiration for the newer version.

After watching all of the episodes of Transformers Prime, I was very pleasantly surprised. It reminded me of the G1 stories in a lot of ways and in others it stood on its own. For me, that's very validating because it almost feels like they took my childhood, updated it, and repackaged it all nice, new, and shiny.


Your thoughts are probably the closest to my own that I have seen so far.
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Re: Which series do you consider to be "canon?" (cartoon and/or comic)

Postby Chaoslock » Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:42 pm

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Sabrblade wrote:The Quints in the cartoon can still be the ones who built them, but also could have been unknowingly doing exactly what Primus wanted by building the TFs. :-B


Or, they could have just conquered Cybertron and "retcon" transformers' history by spreading the lie that they created transformers (maybe that was told in one of the Dreamwave MTMTE books)

The only things I don't consider main canon are:
1.a monkey built Unicron
2. Cybertron is a direct continuity of A-E
3. WFC has anything to do with TF: Prime
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Re: Which series do you consider to be "canon?" (cartoon and/or comic)

Postby Delicon » Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:40 pm

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Chaoslock wrote:The only things I don't consider main canon are:
1.a monkey built Unicron


To this day, I have no idea why so many people consider "Call of the Primitives" one of the best episodes of the series. It may be even less realistic than B.O.T.
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Re: Which series do you consider to be "canon?" (cartoon and/or comic)

Postby craggy » Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:15 pm

Delicon wrote:
Chaoslock wrote:The only things I don't consider main canon are:
1.a monkey built Unicron


To this day, I have no idea why so many people consider "Call of the Primitives" one of the best episodes of the series. It may be even less realistic than B.O.T.

because the animation is top-notch. the story is a load of...well, it's just a load. but the style easily outweighs any attempt at substance. I've no idea how or why whoever was handling the animation did it to such a level, but damn, if only every episode of G1 had looked like that!
that said we'd either still be waiting on much of it being completed or it would have been cancelled for making animators hands fall off.


to the question at hand, Canon, and what I consider it to be...I believe in all the stories.
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Re: Which series do you consider to be "canon?" (cartoon and/or comic)

Postby DrLegend » Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:48 pm

DrLegend wrote:After watching all of the episodes of Transformers Prime, I was very pleasantly surprised. It reminded me of the G1 stories in a lot of ways and in others it stood on its own. For me, that's very validating because it almost feels like they took my childhood, updated it, and repackaged it all nice, new, and shiny.
Even though it seems to make more callbacks to post-G1 material? Image[/quote]

:lol:

Perhaps I should have elaborated a bit more. The story is not what makes me feel nostalgic but rather the way the stories are told. Most of the episodes of Prime have been self-contained akin to its 1980s counterpart with a few multi-part episodes under its belt as well. Granted, Prime had an underlying theme that continued throughout but while watching these episodes I can't help but feel reminded of the G1 cartoon.

I always believed the original series was a bit more mature and brutal (with characters dieing and Optimus not afraid to kick-***) than any other incarnations up until now. Prime has endearing elements to both new and older viewers alike. Which is yet another reason why I enjoy the show so much.
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Re: Which series do you consider to be "canon?" (cartoon and/or comic)

Postby Sabrblade » Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:00 pm

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Chaoslock wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:The Quints in the cartoon can still be the ones who built them, but also could have been unknowingly doing exactly what Primus wanted by building the TFs. :-B


Or, they could have just conquered Cybertron and "retcon" transformers' history by spreading the lie that they created transformers (maybe that was told in one of the Dreamwave MTMTE books)
Are you calling Primon, Prima, and Prime Nova of the G1 cartoon liars? Cuz, they were there when the Quints were in power.

BTW, the Ultimate Guide is littered with questionable claims and errors, as it ourtright plays favorites with the Marvel and Dreamwave comics and actually attempts to discredit the validity of the G1 cartoon within the cartoon's own continuity.

Chaoslock wrote:The only things I don't consider main canon are:
1.a monkey built Unicron
They seriously need to work that out to make it not contradict the Primus/Unicron myth. Like, have them say that Primacron didn't know that the being he was building the body of was a dark god, or something.

Chaoslock wrote:2. Cybertron is a direct continuity of A-E
"Balancing Act" solves EVERYTHING with that. And even Takara eventually got on the bandwagon with making Galaxy Force a sequel to Micron Densetsu and Super Link.

Though, some connections that cannot be explained away are the following:

Armada Unicron's debris in the Cybertron/Galaxy Force cartoon
Image

Energon Alexis appeaing in Cybertron/Galaxy Force
Image

Armada Mini-Con seen on a mural on Gigantion
Image

Among others. ;)

Chaoslock wrote:3. WFC has anything to do with TF: Prime
See episode 26 of TF: Prime.
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Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: Which series do you consider to be "canon?" (cartoon and/or comic)

Postby Noideaforaname » Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:13 am

Having grown up sporadically watching BW/BM, gotten into the hobby with the mythos-light '07 Movie, browsed through TFwiki for months, then watched some of the older series thru, combined with my natural desire to see drastically different takes on the same subject, I don't consider any one series "true." Plus, I'd rather take a new series for what it is instead of automatically comparing it to something else.

I do have a personal canon, but that's not really the same thing.
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Re: Which series do you consider to be "canon?" (cartoon and/or comic)

Postby RK_Striker_JK_5 » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:11 am

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Everything is canon, just some more canon than others. For me, the G1 cartoon trumps all, but not all of it. Paradox much? ;)
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Re: Which series do you consider to be "canon?" (cartoon and/or comic)

Postby Sabrblade » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:23 am

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RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:Everything is canon, just some more canon than others. For me, the G1 cartoon trumps all, but not all of it. Paradox much? ;)
Oxymoron? Hypocracy? Irony? Schrödinger's cat? I'm sure there is a word for it. Image
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Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: Which series do you consider to be "canon?" (cartoon and/or comic)

Postby Delicon » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:44 am

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In my mind, The Quintessons created the Transformers. Heck, they based an entire G1 cartoon season around that. That came way before the Marvel G1 or anyone else conjured up Primus.

Also, Optimus Prime always started as Orion Pax and not Optotronix or whatever his War Within name was.

Btw, it's funny how the TCC comics reference War Dawn one moment and War Within the next, like the 2 somehow jive.

And despite what Sabrblade will likely say in his next reply, they just don't. ;)
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Re: Which series do you consider to be "canon?" (cartoon and/or comic)

Postby Sabrblade » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:46 am

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Delicon wrote:Btw, it's funny how the TCC comics reference War Dawn one moment and War Within the next, like the 2 somehow jive.
Huh? They do what? :???:
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Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: Which series do you consider to be "canon?" (cartoon and/or comic)

Postby RK_Striker_JK_5 » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:46 am

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Maybe Doylist, since for the most part that's what I am. I kind of have canon, but for the most part? It makes me buy toys.
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Re: Which series do you consider to be "canon?" (cartoon and/or comic)

Postby Delicon » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:54 am

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Sabrblade wrote:
Delicon wrote:Btw, it's funny how the TCC comics reference War Dawn one moment and War Within the next, like the 2 somehow jive.
Huh? They do what? :???:


In the Elite Guard stories, they have Dion as a character which obviously is a reference to War Dawn. In the Shattered Glass stories, they mention how SG Optimus was Optotronix from War Within. Correct me if I'm wrong (which I know you will) but they have also tied both comic threads into their Classicsverse universe. One doesn't work with the other.
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Re: Which series do you consider to be "canon?" (cartoon and/or comic)

Postby Sabrblade » Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:07 am

Motto: "Can't do a job halfway. What's worth doing is worth doing well, I say."
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Delicon wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
Delicon wrote:Btw, it's funny how the TCC comics reference War Dawn one moment and War Within the next, like the 2 somehow jive.
Huh? They do what? :???:


In the Elite Guard stories, they have Dion as a character which obviously is a reference to War Dawn. In the Shattered Glass stories, they mention how SG Optimus was Optotronix from War Within. Correct me if I'm wrong (which I know you will) but they have also tied both comic threads into their Classicsverse universe. One doesn't work with the other.
Oh, now I see what's going on. See, the Elite Guard ones take place in a world, the "Wings Universe" if you will, that based on the G1 cartoon's past.

Whereas the Shattered Glass comics take place in another world that, while making references to several G1 stuff, is mostly an inverse of the Classics comics world, which itself is a splinter timeline of the Marvel G1 comics.

The TCC fiction takes place in multiple continuities, hence it being called "Transformers: Timelines". Of the worlds we've seen in that fiction, we've seen...
  • The Cybertron cartoon
  • An intermediate point in time between G1 and the Beast Era (but set in its own world)
  • The Beast Era
  • The Classicverse (itself splintered off from the Marvel G1 comics)
  • The world of TransTech
  • The Shatteredverse
  • The Wings Universe (both the past and the future)
  • The Animated cartoon

Some of the stories are connected, but those that span multiple continuities do so via characters dimension-hopping.
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Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: Which series do you consider to be "canon?" (cartoon and/or comic)

Postby Mat001 » Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:22 pm

In terms of stories, I keep them separate which they are. But if certain stories from other points work well in some form, then I'm all for that. I like that the origin for Deszaras/Deathsaurus in the "Wings Of Honor" series works well with "Victory" and can easily see them interlocked. I like that Primus and Unicron are the origins of the Transformers, but I also like the Quintessons and like the combined aspects.
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