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Stormwolf wrote:The creators of the series pointed out that they wanted the autobots to be outnumbered to give the Decepticons a advantage (and not turn them into a joke of a enemy).

The main problem of the series is that Autobots arent outnumbered, they are heavily outnumbered. It's simply too many Cons when we compared them with Autobots. If Autobots have their own mooks, the conflict would be seems to be a little more serious(Team of five or six guys against a entire Warship?)

TurboMMaster wrote:

Stormwolf wrote:The creators of the series pointed out that they wanted the autobots to be outnumbered to give the Decepticons a advantage (and not turn them into a joke of a enemy).

The main problem of the series is that Autobots arent outnumbered, they are heavily outnumbered. It's simply too many Cons when we compared them with Autobots. If Autobots have their own mooks, the conflict would be seems to be a little more serious(Team of five or six guys against a entire Warship?)

Who cares? Only the named guys and Insecticons are actually a challenge. The Vehicons aren't even worth a damn.

PrymeStriker wrote:Who cares? Only the named guys and Insecticons are actually a challenge. The Vehicons aren't even worth a damn.

Really? I mean, lol, they deafeat Cliffjumper, most of the time they winning with BBB and Arcee and one seems to be challenge for Bulkhead! Later they seems to be less impresive, but still they had their moments of glory. In "Orion Pax" they seems to be strong enough to knock off Optimus. In Armada they was able to really slow down Insections, despite the fact they were outnumbered. In "Human Factor" They were for a long moment they were a effectiwe wall for the Autobots. And if Insecticons were a more challenge: Then why injured and poisoned Bulkhead was able to defeat four of them (including the most powerfull of their kind)? Also in "Darkest Hour" All Insections send to fight with Autobots were killed, and we can only see five flying Vehicons don't survived. Maybe they are'nt as effective as they should be, but still it's more than any other Cons mooks in other Universes.

TurboMMaster wrote:Later they seems to be less impresive, but still they had their moments of glory. In "Orion Pax" they seems to be strong enough to knock off Optimus.

Except it wasn't Optimus, it was Orion Pax. Orion wasn't expecting them to knock him down. Also, Orion shot them both down with ease after he learned he was armed.

PrymeStriker wrote:

TurboMMaster wrote:
Except it wasn't Optimus, it was Orion Pax. Orion wasn't expecting them to knock him down. Also, Orion shot them both down with ease after he learned he was armed.

Orion or Optimus, his physical form was exactly the same - so his power level was exactly the same. Also it is hard to knock down a guy witch is much bigger and heavier than you, even if he is'nt expecting. I don't think that ordinary guy can knock out with his fist a profesional heavy-weight boxer, or any other fighter, for examplke wrestler. even if he use a element of suprise.

TurboMMaster wrote:

PrymeStriker wrote:

TurboMMaster wrote:
Except it wasn't Optimus, it was Orion Pax. Orion wasn't expecting them to knock him down. Also, Orion shot them both down with ease after he learned he was armed.

Orion or Optimus, his physical form was exactly the same - so his power level was exactly the same. Also it is hard to knock down a guy witch is much bigger and heavier than you, even if he is'nt expecting. I don't think that ordinary guy can knock out with his fist a profesional heavy-weight boxer, or any other fighter, for examplke wrestler. even if he use a element of suprise.

Orion lacks the strength to hold his ground against such force.