Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

Posted: **Tue Jul 12, 2011 6:48 pm**

I've asked this proabably a dozen times now in various threads and no one has given a response. For those that hate/dislike the live action movies, you put majority of the blame on Bay, and a small fraction on the writers, but i have yet to see anyone hold Hasbro accountable for the end results of the movies. In the end, Hasbro owns Transformers. They will be selling the toys an its there products that are being represented on screen. evertthing from character designs, to character development, it all comes donw to hasbro giving the yay, or ney. Yes, i understand that bay and others throw in their idea's, but in the end, Hasbro is the one that will either succeed, or fail in the long run as a result of the movies. When ever they decide for a reboot, i would think directing some of those coments towards hasbro and telling them how you would like to see your favorite character represented on screen would go alot further then the director.

Posted: **Tue Jul 12, 2011 7:10 pm**

Does it matter? It's foolish to take the haters seriously since most of them are just butthurt geewunners.

MOST OF THEM.

NOT ALL.

Posted: **Tue Jul 12, 2011 7:13 pm**

Treetop Maximus wrote:Does it matter? It's foolish to take the haters seriously since most of them are just butthurt geewunners.

MOST OF THEM.

NOT ALL.

Where's you get that sig? I found others, but I wand that Bumblebee one.

And yes, I hate that everyone blames Bay. All he does is record what's written on paper, and turns words into visions.

Posted: **Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:32 pm**

Does Hasbro really have much control? I just thought they said. "Okay, Mike and Steve, we want a Transformers movie so we can make millions on our toys and assorted licensed merchandise. Here is some background information, TV series to watch, and some guidelines and limitations. The rest is up to you. Just make it successful. Now go."
Do they really have much more than this. I'm speaking as a huge fan of the movies, but I thought the film team itself made most of the decisions, and Hasbro just initiated the launch sequence.
If one feels the need to "blame", then blame freaking everyone that used any creativity, effort, or imagination in this thing.

Posted: **Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:39 pm**

OptiMagnus wrote:Does Hasbro really have much control? I just thought they said. "Okay, Mike and Steve, we want a Transformers movie so we can make millions on our toys and assorted licensed merchandise. Here is some background information, TV series to watch, and some guidelines and limitations. The rest is up to you. Just make it successful. Now go."
Do they really have much more than this. I'm speaking as a huge fan of the movies, but I thought the film team itself made most of the decisions, and Hasbro just initiated the launch sequence.
If one feels the need to "blame", then blame freaking everyone that used any creativity, effort, or imagination in this thing.

Oh, no. I'm a fan of the movies myself. Just that when those that don't like the film generaly put all the movie faults on Bay and after looking at the big picture, i don't think thats fair.

as far as hasbro's control, i don't believe thats how it went down. It couldn't have gone down that way. While yes, they are the experts on filming and such, at the end of the day, how the characters are portrayed and designs, hasbro has to aprove. I just don;t see them handing everything over to the film and production crew and entrusting them to make something good. Now as i said, i'm a fan of the movies. So if they did just hand over the relmes then i'm all good with that. But either way, you either have Hasbro to thank, or blame! :lol:

Posted: **Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:43 pm**

blame hasbro, some calls hasbro hitler, hasbro locks the transformers franchise for a hundred years, fans pay through the nose importing creating a booming transformer black market.

micheal bay is transformer's joe quesada and vince russo. everyone blames them even if it's not their fault.

Posted: **Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:18 pm**

5150 Cruiser wrote: Oh, no. I'm a fan of the movies myself. Just that when those that don't like the film generaly put all the movie faults on Bay and after looking at the big picture, i don't think thats fair.

as far as hasbro's control, i don't believe thats how it went down. It couldn't have gone down that way. While yes, they are the experts on filming and such, at the end of the day, how the characters are portrayed and designs, hasbro has to aprove. I just don;t see them handing everything over to the film and production crew and entrusting them to make something good. Now as i said, i'm a fan of the movies. So if they did just hand over the relmes then i'm all good with that. But either way, you either have Hasbro to thank, or blame!

Oh I know you're a fan, too. What I'm saying is that there is, from whichever view one has of the movie universe, multiple individuals/parties to either thank or blame.
But, of course every poster or advertisement for these movies doesn't say "A Hasbro film" or "Directed by Hasbro". While it's not fair at all to credit or blame everything on him, his name has been put out there, so people are going to naturally bring up his name. And, maybe, that's what Hasbro wants. That way, they don't get wrapped up in all the bashing, but still quietly make millions.

Posted: **Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:59 am**

Treetop Maximus wrote:Does it matter? It's foolish to take the haters seriously since most of them are just butthurt geewunners.

MOST OF THEM.

NOT ALL.

well you have discounted yourself from any serious conversation

To blame Hasbro we need to know how much impact Hasbro had on the movies themselves. Did they have script approval, did they create personality templates to be adhered to, or did they jsut approve the physical design of the transformers.

Did they insist on all that time on human chararcters. Surely that would go against their marketing ploy, which should be more transformers time, more transformers time, less stupid semi retarded "adult" humour which will persuade parents to not bring their kids to the movies, kids, Hasbro's target market

Posted: **Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:44 pm**

shamone wrote:
Treetop Maximus wrote:Does it matter? It's foolish to take the haters seriously since most of them are just butthurt geewunners.

MOST OF THEM.

NOT ALL.

well you have discounted yourself from any serious conversation

To blame Hasbro we need to know how much impact Hasbro had on the movies themselves. Did they have script approval, did they create personality templates to be adhered to, or did they jsut approve the physical design of the transformers.

Did they insist on all that time on human chararcters. Surely that would go against their marketing ploy, which should be more transformers time, more transformers time, less stupid semi retarded "adult" humour which will persuade parents to not bring their kids to the movies, kids, Hasbro's target market

Posted: **Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:14 pm**

Treetop Maximus wrote:Does it matter? It's foolish to take the haters seriously since most of them are just butthurt geewunners.

MOST OF THEM.

NOT ALL.

Do you have anything to back up that claim?

Posted: **Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:38 pm**

Treetop Maximus wrote:
shamone wrote:
Treetop Maximus wrote:Does it matter? It's foolish to take the haters seriously since most of them are just butthurt geewunners.

MOST OF THEM.

NOT ALL.

well you have discounted yourself from any serious conversation

To blame Hasbro we need to know how much impact Hasbro had on the movies themselves. Did they have script approval, did they create personality templates to be adhered to, or did they jsut approve the physical design of the transformers.

Did they insist on all that time on human chararcters. Surely that would go against their marketing ploy, which should be more transformers time, more transformers time, less stupid semi retarded "adult" humour which will persuade parents to not bring their kids to the movies, kids, Hasbro's target market

im sorry is this an appropriate response.

Posted: **Wed Jul 13, 2011 5:25 pm**

I admit when I wrote my original post hating on Micheal Bay I didn't take the time to see the whole picture on things. And yes Hasbro truly is to blame and very well should be held accountable for the movies ending up the way they did. I still think Having Bay direct was a mistake and having Stephen Speilberg produce was an even bigger one. True Speilberg knows how to make movies but NOT a Transformers movie. His limited vision made these films so bloody boring and Hasbro approved of it.

To me the films were proof that hasbro as well didn't care enough about the TF fan base either. And in a sense what can we expect? They're a toy company. Thier job is to sell as many toys as they can and making sure that those we do have are easily replaced. This can also be proven with the 1980's TF flick. All that was about was breaking all our toys we already had and showing off the new ones so our parents would have to buy them.

But yeah these movies sold and in their eyes that's all that matters to them.

Course even they learned you don't murder Prime without bringing him back. So let's see if they can learn anything from how we feel about these movies... not that they care.

Posted: **Wed Jul 13, 2011 5:28 pm**

Atary77 wrote:I admit when I wrote my original post hating on Micheal Bay I didn't take the time to see the whole picture on things. And yes Hasbro truly is to blame and very well should be held accountable for the movies ending up the way they did. I still think Having Bay direct was a mistake and having Stephen Speilberg produce was an even bigger one. True Speilberg knows how to make movies but NOT a Transformers movie. His limited vision made these films so bloody boring and Hasbro approved of it.

To me the films were proof that hasbro as well didn't care enough about the TF fan base either. And in a sense what can we expect? They're a toy company. Thier job is to sell as many toys as they can and making sure that those we do have are easily replaced. This can also be proven with the 1980's TF flick. All that was about was breaking all our toys we already had and showing off the new ones so our parents would have to buy them.

But yeah these movies sold and in their eyes that's all that matters to them.

Course even they learned you don't murder Prime without bringing him back. So let's see if they can learn anything from how we feel about these movies... not that they care.

to attack hasbro you need to know how much involvement they had

Posted: **Wed Jul 13, 2011 5:40 pm**

If there was something in those films that Hasbro wouldn't have allowed they would've put a stop to it. Being the brand name owner. So yeah they probably weren't on set at all calling any of the shots but I'm certain they got to see these movies before anyone else have laid eyes on them.

So when they were presented with shots of Megan and Rosie's' ass, Suggestively placed wrecking balls, and that obnoxious little booger Wheelie humping Megan Fox's leg they either didn't see it or they let it slide.

You tell me what you think happened.

Posted: **Wed Jul 13, 2011 5:47 pm**

Atary77 wrote:If there was something in those films that Hasbro wouldn't have allowed they would've put a stop to it. Being the brand name owner. So yeah they probably weren't on set at all calling any of the shots but I'm certain they got to see these movies before anyone else have laid eyes on them.

So when they were presented with shots of Megan and Rosie's' ass, Suggestively placed wrecking balls, and that obnoxious little booger Wheelie humping Megan Fox's leg they either didn't see it or they let it slide.

You tell me what you think happened.

thats the sin of permission

for that you also have to blame producers or studios and so on.

i thought we were saying that hasbro were responsible for the vision of the movies which i dont know is true or not

Posted: **Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:29 pm**

Atary77 wrote:I admit when I wrote my original post hating on Micheal Bay I didn't take the time to see the whole picture on things. And yes Hasbro truly is to blame and very well should be held accountable for the movies ending up the way they did. I still think Having Bay direct was a mistake and having Stephen Speilberg produce was an even bigger one. True Speilberg knows how to make movies but NOT a Transformers movie. His limited vision made these films so bloody boring and Hasbro approved of it.

To me the films were proof that hasbro as well didn't care enough about the TF fan base either. And in a sense what can we expect? They're a toy company. Thier job is to sell as many toys as they can and making sure that those we do have are easily replaced. This can also be proven with the 1980's TF flick. All that was about was breaking all our toys we already had and showing off the new ones so our parents would have to buy them.

But yeah these movies sold and in their eyes that's all that matters to them.

Course even they learned you don't murder Prime without bringing him back. So let's see if they can learn anything from how we feel about these movies... not that they care.

Yeah, I hope they learn how much I loved this series.

Posted: **Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:31 pm**

I personally have no idea just how much say Hasbro has in the production of the movies, or what's written in the contract, so I'll stay away from debating if it's Hasbro's fault for letting these unpopular decisions in design and character portrayal slip by.

What I do know for sure is that Bay was quoted in an interview saying that Hasbro gave him and his team a lot of freedom in terms of design.

To date, there's been no real mention of what Hasbro thought of the movie and its contents, overall. At least, none that I know of.

Posted: **Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:34 pm**

Screamfleet wrote:
Treetop Maximus wrote:Does it matter? It's foolish to take the haters seriously since most of them are just butthurt geewunners.

MOST OF THEM.

NOT ALL.

Do you have anything to back up that claim?

You're right. For all I know, they could ALL be butthurt geewunners. Thanks for pointing out the flaw in my claim.

Posted: **Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:56 pm**

I think it could be safe to say that as a whole, Hasbro ,Steven Spielberg, Micheal Bay, Don Murphy, and those two writers Orci and Kurtzman collectively we can blame/thank for this.

And since this movies bored me to tears I'm just gonna blame all of them.

I think that should have my bases covered unless I'm missing anyone.

Posted: **Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:53 pm**

5150 Cruiser wrote:I've asked this proabably a dozen times now in various threads and no one has given a response. For those that hate/dislike the live action movies, you put majority of the blame on Bay, and a small fraction on the writers, but i have yet to see anyone hold Hasbro accountable for the end results of the movies. In the end, Hasbro owns Transformers. They will be selling the toys an its there products that are being represented on screen. evertthing from character designs, to character development, it all comes donw to hasbro giving the yay, or ney. Yes, i understand that bay and others throw in their idea's, but in the end, Hasbro is the one that will either succeed, or fail in the long run as a result of the movies. When ever they decide for a reboot, i would think directing some of those coments towards hasbro and telling them how you would like to see your favorite character represented on screen would go alot further then the director.

For my part, Hasbro doesnt really get any blame.To tell the truth I'm not a big fan of the films, but the character designs arnt my issue.Its the bad story telling.And for that, only Bay gets the blame.

Not even the writers are at fault, because Bay ok'ed the scripts.

Posted: **Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:19 pm**

Atary77 wrote:If there was something in those films that Hasbro wouldn't have allowed they would've put a stop to it. Being the brand name owner. So yeah they probably weren't on set at all calling any of the shots but I'm certain they got to see these movies before anyone else have laid eyes on them.
.

This is my thinking as well. I mean think about it..

If you were to hire someone for a job, any job, that means your the boss. I can understand giving them some freedom when it comes to the production of a movie since by coming to them, in a sence you are trust them as they are the professionals. But...
Your still the boss. The overall product should be aproved my you as it is your name. So even if hasbro said "You have free rain to do whatever you want!", it still there responisblity cause there the ones that let Bay and Co. have full controll.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
For my part, Hasbro doesnt really get any blame.To tell the truth I'm not a big fan of the films, but the character designs arnt my issue.Its the bad story telling.And for that, only Bay gets the blame.

Not even the writers are at fault, because Bay ok'ed the scripts.

So you don't think Hasbro should have looked things since its there product thats going to be represented? Its not like they haven't been involved in story telling in other TF prodjects, so why would it be any different now?

Posted: **Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:52 pm**

what's going to stop michael from throwing "don't mess with my artistry" excuse to any hasbro meddling?

Posted: **Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:26 am**

Treetop Maximus wrote:
Screamfleet wrote:
Treetop Maximus wrote:Does it matter? It's foolish to take the haters seriously since most of them are just butthurt geewunners.

MOST OF THEM.

NOT ALL.

Do you have anything to back up that claim?

You're right. For all I know, they could ALL be butthurt geewunners. Thanks for pointing out the flaw in my claim.

Exactly.

Though I think context is important. Do you mean in general, or on these boards?

Posted: **Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:36 am**

Incorrect claim #1

Atary77 wrote:To me the films were proof that hasbro as well didn't care enough about the TF fan base either.

Incorrect claim #2 with clever response

Treetop Maximus wrote:
Atary77 wrote:So let's see if they can learn anything from how we feel about these movies... not that they care.

Yeah, I hope they learn how much I loved this series.

Unfortunately for you, Atary, the claims I highlighted here invalidate your argument, especially the parts I put in bold and most especially the words I put in red. Treetop put it correctly.

The issue with these statements: You put every single Transformers "fan" in the same boat, which is the boat that dislikes the movies. You are assuming every "fan" who has seen these films is unsatisfied, basically pulling me onto a boat I don't want to be on, as I loved every (well, almost every) second of all three films, and bought tons of toys and love (nearly) all of them. Do you believe everyone dislikes these movies? Where's the boat I'm supposed to be on? Did it sink? Did I imagine it?
One of the biggest problems the TF fanbase has is that it's so common for someone to say "we", "us", or "the fans" to invalidate the opinions of those who don't share their opinion on a certain subject, and assume everyone thinks the same way as they do. I just hate it when someone says "Hasbro/Michael Bay doesn't care about the fans because they/he gave us movies we don't like". Also, one of these days you're going to realize that Hasbro doesn't serve "us": They do what they think is going to sell toys and keep Transformers alive. Yes, people, like yourself, dislike the films. Not everyone. Not everyone that calls themselves a Transformers fan. So, realistically, Hasbro can't serve "us". If they could, they'd have to have so many interpretations of everything so they could satisfy every individual. The world just doesn't work that way.
Unfortunately for you, the movies happened to accomplish more than Hasbro intended in the stae they were presented, and since there is a high demand for their toys and a majority satisfaction of the films, they aren't going to drop what they're doing, try to change what already happened, and listen to the rather unfortunate minority. Money talks, so who are they going to listen to? To avoid taking your quotes out of context, yes you did mention Hasbro is out to make money. But you never mentioned that they're out to please the majority. If the majority's happy, Hasbro's happy, and they claim success.
So, if Hasbro can learn anything from how I (not "we") feel about these movies, I want them to learn how much I love them and how much I want to see another movie like the other three in two years.
At the same time, I want them to learn from what you disliked about them, and how they can improve upon that, which may even make them richer.

Posted: **Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:28 am**

Treetop Maximus wrote:Does it matter? It's foolish to take the haters seriously since most of them are just butthurt geewunners.

MOST OF THEM.

NOT ALL.

Is that some kind of joke? I don't think there are all that many people left who are disappointed with the movies just because they're unfaithful to G1, I think the main reason would be that they're two mediocre and one terrible movies.

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