This page contains affiliate links. We may earn commissions when readers interact with or purchase items through these links. For more information, see our affiliate disclosures here.

Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Discuss anything and everything related to the Transformers Live Action Films franchise, which are directed by Michael Bay. Join us to discuss the movies and stuff up to date with news for the 2017 release of Transformers 5. Check out our Live Action Film section here.

Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby Burn » Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:03 am

Motto: "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings to randomly click things in the Admin Panel to see what it breaks."
Phew ... for a moment there I thought this was going to be a thread that didn't have the same old discussion that's been beat to death.

Good to know it's the same old endless crap. I can go back to ignoring it until someone starts to insult others. Please don't do that, you'll interrupt my sleep.
Burn
Forum Admin
Posts: 28677
News Credits: 226
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2003 2:37 am

Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby Jelze Bunnycat » Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:27 am

Motto: "The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance."
Here's my two cents for the argument:

I agree that Hasbro is a bit at fault for letting the movie end up as they are, and only for that. For one simple reason: as long as it brings in money and (temporary) fans, they're fine with it. As they should be, because Hasbro's forte (strong point) is making toys, and at times, basic accompanying background stories. The promotions, like merchandise, commercials, yes, even cartoons and this case the movies, they outsource to other companies who specialise in them. And it's been like that since the very beginning in 1984.

Marvel, Sunbow, Toei for Japan, Mainframe Entertainment for Beast Wars and other animation studios for the Unicron Trilogy, all were commissioned by Hasbro or Takara to create the cartoons based on the toys. Ever wondered why some shows are often called "toy commercials" (in derogatory manner)? Because deep down, that's what they are. The movies are no exception. And all the companies need is a license and Hasbro's approval on certain matters. And Hasbro does have some influence:

- characters killed off = room for new product. I don't think I need to tell you guys to look at the animated movie for that.
- repaints = new product. Armada and Energon, 'nuff said.

But that influence can be twisted:

- Many of you may not know this, but BW Waspinator was on the short list of being killed off in favor of Transmetal Terrorsaur. However, the fans liked poor Waspinator so much that he got to live once more, and Terrorsuar got the axe instead.
- In Energon, Japan's to blame for repaints and new molds being turned into upgrades. Snow Cat, Dump Truck, Mirage, and most repaints, they were all turned into upgrades instead of the intended new characters.

I don't how much influence Hasbro has in the movie, but I think it's safe to say it's about as much as they were willing to excercise in the past. As long as Hasbro says yes, the companies do whatever. The movies were made simply to revive the brand, which they did, and that's all that Hasbro cares about. Take that as you will.

Now, about the characters themselves. The characters are the way they are because Hasbro said so in the Transforms production bible, laying out the basic universe, principle characters like Optimus Prime and Megatron, the works. And nobody has a say in that. The only single noteworthy accomplished change was this:

- a redesign of Megatron's head in the first movie during production.

Even that's with major outcry from a large majority of fans.
The resident Rewind... well, half of one :lol:

- Jelze Bunnycat =:3

Looking for:
- TR Furos (Hardhead's head) and Crashbash (lost him :()
- PotP Punch head
- TR Galvatron right arm (the gun one)
- CW Brake-Neck/UW Wildrider, CW Offroad
- TR Twinferno & Grotusque
- Greenlight, Lancer and PotP Elita-1 (plus repro Victorion hands and feet?)
User avatar
Jelze Bunnycat
God Of Transformers
Posts: 19364
News Credits: 241
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 5:45 am
Location: McKinney, Texas, USA; Delft, the Netherlands
Strength: 5
Intelligence: 9
Speed: 8
Endurance: 7
Rank: 1
Courage: 8
Skill: 5

Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby shamone » Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:48 am

lets see what we can blame hasbro for

- immature unfunny adult themed (but not adult standard) humour. - NO this alienates their target market

- emphasis on human characters -No, again they want to sell toys not people

- bad editing and scritping - no they are toy makers not movie makers

- superfilous characters and novelty bots (the kitchencons for example) - yes put as many pointless toy potentials in

- the shallow characterisation - hard to judge, they may have laid down basic character profiles but it was up to creators to elaborate upon these
shamone
Combiner
Posts: 459
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:33 pm

Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby Treetop Maximus » Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:24 am

Motto: "At least the opening was good."
Weapon: Railgun
Screamfleet wrote:
Treetop Maximus wrote:
Screamfleet wrote:
Treetop Maximus wrote:Does it matter? It's foolish to take the haters seriously since most of them are just butthurt geewunners.

MOST OF THEM.

NOT ALL.


Do you have anything to back up that claim?


You're right. For all I know, they could ALL be butthurt geewunners. Thanks for pointing out the flaw in my claim. :)


Exactly.

Though I think context is important. Do you mean in general, or on these boards?


My bad. I meant amongst the Transformers fandom.

shamone wrote:- emphasis on human characters -No, again they want to sell toys not people


Human Alliance
Hirasawa Yui is the one truth of this world.
User avatar
Treetop Maximus
Targetmaster
Posts: 674
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 8:43 pm
Location: Freedomburgerland
Watch Treetop Maximus on YouTube
Strength: 4
Intelligence: 5
Speed: 7
Endurance: 7
Rank: 6
Courage: 6
Firepower: 9
Skill: 5

Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby shamone » Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:29 am

Treetop Maximus wrote:
Screamfleet wrote:
Treetop Maximus wrote:
Screamfleet wrote:
Treetop Maximus wrote:Does it matter? It's foolish to take the haters seriously since most of them are just butthurt geewunners.

MOST OF THEM.

NOT ALL.


Do you have anything to back up that claim?


You're right. For all I know, they could ALL be butthurt geewunners. Thanks for pointing out the flaw in my claim. :)


Exactly.

Though I think context is important. Do you mean in general, or on these boards?


My bad. I meant amongst the Transformers fandom.

shamone wrote:- emphasis on human characters -No, again they want to sell toys not people


Human Alliance


want do you think was the usp of those toys
shamone
Combiner
Posts: 459
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:33 pm

Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby Treetop Maximus » Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:32 am

Motto: "At least the opening was good."
Weapon: Railgun
shamone wrote:
Treetop Maximus wrote:
Screamfleet wrote:
Treetop Maximus wrote:
Screamfleet wrote:
Treetop Maximus wrote:Does it matter? It's foolish to take the haters seriously since most of them are just butthurt geewunners.

MOST OF THEM.

NOT ALL.


Do you have anything to back up that claim?


You're right. For all I know, they could ALL be butthurt geewunners. Thanks for pointing out the flaw in my claim. :)


Exactly.

Though I think context is important. Do you mean in general, or on these boards?


My bad. I meant amongst the Transformers fandom.

shamone wrote:- emphasis on human characters -No, again they want to sell toys not people


Human Alliance


want do you think was the usp of those toys


Usp? No idea.
Hirasawa Yui is the one truth of this world.
User avatar
Treetop Maximus
Targetmaster
Posts: 674
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 8:43 pm
Location: Freedomburgerland
Watch Treetop Maximus on YouTube
Strength: 4
Intelligence: 5
Speed: 7
Endurance: 7
Rank: 6
Courage: 6
Firepower: 9
Skill: 5

Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby shamone » Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:33 am

Treetop Maximus wrote:
shamone wrote:
Treetop Maximus wrote:
Screamfleet wrote:
Treetop Maximus wrote:
Screamfleet wrote:
Treetop Maximus wrote:Does it matter? It's foolish to take the haters seriously since most of them are just butthurt geewunners.

MOST OF THEM.

NOT ALL.


Do you have anything to back up that claim?


You're right. For all I know, they could ALL be butthurt geewunners. Thanks for pointing out the flaw in my claim. :)


Exactly.

Though I think context is important. Do you mean in general, or on these boards?


My bad. I meant amongst the Transformers fandom.

shamone wrote:- emphasis on human characters -No, again they want to sell toys not people


Human Alliance


want do you think was the usp of those toys


Usp? No idea.


unique selling point
shamone
Combiner
Posts: 459
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:33 pm

Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby Treetop Maximus » Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:37 am

Motto: "At least the opening was good."
Weapon: Railgun
The unique selling point is that they come wih humans, obviously. Hasbro is selling toys of humans under the Transformers brand name. Robots are not their main focus.
Hirasawa Yui is the one truth of this world.
User avatar
Treetop Maximus
Targetmaster
Posts: 674
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 8:43 pm
Location: Freedomburgerland
Watch Treetop Maximus on YouTube
Strength: 4
Intelligence: 5
Speed: 7
Endurance: 7
Rank: 6
Courage: 6
Firepower: 9
Skill: 5

Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby Screamfleet » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:17 pm

Weapon: Null-Ray Rifle
My bad. I meant amongst the Transformers fandom.


That does clarify it. Though I still think its a huge baseless assumption, with no way of really knowing.
I'm too young to have been around for g1, and I don't see the movies as all that great. I've never cared for Michael Bay movies. I'm sure there's other TF fans that can be in the same boat.

Though I have no problem saying, that most people that dislike the movies in general, probably aren't even TF fans at all. That's obviously, outside the fandom. I only have little, and not entirely reliable evidence to back this up. So, I'm still making an assumption myself, but, it's one I'm confident in and willing to make.
User avatar
Screamfleet
Pretender
Posts: 744
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2009 7:49 pm
Strength: 7
Intelligence: 7
Speed: 9
Endurance: 7
Rank: 5
Courage: 8
Firepower: 7
Skill: 7

Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:09 pm

Motto: "Today is a good day to die......but the day is not yet over!"
5150 Cruiser wrote:So you don't think Hasbro should have looked things since its there product thats going to be represented?


Do you mean "looked things over"?

If so then yes, and I'm sure they did, but bottom line I dont see how that would have helped.Hasbro signed over the rights for a movie.Unless the film differes from the source martial so much that its not recognizable then they dont have much recourse to change things.

Not to mention that M.Bay showed us in the first film that he's going to do things his way no matter what Hasbro has to say about it. I'm talking about the DELIBERATE nameing of the tank as Devestator and not Brawl.

I know many believe it was a mistake but Bay admited it wasnt.

Its not like they haven't been involved in story telling in other TF prodjects, so why would it be any different now?


Thats just it, they havent been very involved, they hire out for their writting needs since day 1.And its not like Hasbro is in the buisness of making films.They are going to put their trust in Paramount, Spelberg and who ever they hire to direct the film.
Last edited by sto_vo_kor_2000 on Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds

T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach

Image
sto_vo_kor_2000
Guardian Of Seibertron
Posts: 6887
News Credits: 1
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 12:01 am

Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby 5150 Cruiser » Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:10 pm

Motto: "If it first you don't succeed,.. Sky diving is not for you!"
Weapon: Double-Barreled Self-Propelled Rocket Launcher
shamone wrote:lets see what we can blame hasbro for

- immature unfunny adult themed (but not adult standard) humour. - NO this alienates their target market

- emphasis on human characters -No, again they want to sell toys not people

- bad editing and scritping - no they are toy makers not movie makers

- superfilous characters and novelty bots (the kitchencons for example) - yes put as many pointless toy potentials in

- the shallow characterisation - hard to judge, they may have laid down basic character profiles but it was up to creators to elaborate upon these


Habro can be held acountable for all of this. Why? Because its their product. Giving the producers free rein to do what they want and then saying its not Hasbros fault is like giving the keys to an interior designer for your house and then being pissed cause they painted the inside pink, purple and orange. ya, it may have been there vision, but if its not what you had envisioned, then you should have overlooked the prodject a bit better and put your foot down.
I understand that there first, and foremost goal is to sell toys, but if hasbro didn't like the potty humor then they should have spoken up
Decepticons... Com in get yo ice cream!.... And then get yo ass whop'in!!

Suck my popsicle!! :p

Shadowman wrote:I will put forth the theory that it was the internet itself trying to punch him in the face.
5150 Cruiser
Headmaster
Posts: 1174
News Credits: 5
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 12:24 pm
Strength: 8
Intelligence: 8
Speed: 7
Endurance: 7
Rank: 8
Courage: 7
Firepower: 6
Skill: 9

Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby 5150 Cruiser » Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:28 pm

Motto: "If it first you don't succeed,.. Sky diving is not for you!"
Weapon: Double-Barreled Self-Propelled Rocket Launcher
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote: Do you mean "looked things over"?

If so then yes, and I'm sure they did, but bottom line I dont see how that would have helped.Hasbro signed over the rights for a movie.Unless the film differes from the source martial so much that its not recognizable then they dont have much recourse to change things

Not to mention that M.Bay showed us in the first film that he's going to do things his way no matter what Hasbro has to say about it. I'm talking about the DELIBERATE nameing of the tank as Devestator and not Brawl.

I know many believe it was a mistake but Bay admited it wasnt..



You sure Bay said it wasn't a mistake?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0418279/faq#.2.1.35

Were did Bay say specificly that he overrulled everyone and kept the name as devestoator? I could be wrong, but i could have sworn in the DVD comentray of the first movie it was stated it was a mistake.



sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
Its not like they haven't been involved in story telling in other TF prodjects, so why would it be any different now?


Thats just it, they havent been very involved, they hire out for their writting needs since day 1.And its not like Hasbro is in the buisness of making films.They are going to put their trust in Paramount, Spelberg and who ever they hire to direct the film.


So your trying to tell me that in 25yrs they have never, and i mean never overlooked any of the writing that has been done for them? Sorry, i just don't by that.
Decepticons... Com in get yo ice cream!.... And then get yo ass whop'in!!

Suck my popsicle!! :p

Shadowman wrote:I will put forth the theory that it was the internet itself trying to punch him in the face.
5150 Cruiser
Headmaster
Posts: 1174
News Credits: 5
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 12:24 pm
Strength: 8
Intelligence: 8
Speed: 7
Endurance: 7
Rank: 8
Courage: 7
Firepower: 6
Skill: 9

Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:43 pm

Motto: "Today is a good day to die......but the day is not yet over!"
5150 Cruiser wrote: Habro can be held acountable for all of this. Why? Because its their product. Giving the producers free rein to do what they want and then saying its not Hasbros fault is like giving the keys to an interior designer for your house and then being pissed cause they painted the inside pink, purple and orange. ya, it may have been there vision, but if its not what you had envisioned, then you should have overlooked the prodject a bit better and put your foot down.
I understand that there first, and foremost goal is to sell toys, but if hasbro didn't like the potty humor then they should have spoken up



Hasbro really cant be blamed for any of that because of how the business operates.

Hasbro signed over the rights for a film to be made.Putting their foot down as you put it really isint an option.

True, its like "giving the keys to an interior designer for your house and then being pissed cause they painted wrong" but thats how it works in this business.Once they have signed over the rights thats pretty much it.

Unless the work completed deviates from what was wanted/agreed upon then the brand owner has no recourse to abide by the contract they signed or face fines for breach of contract.

And like them or nmot for their detail, the films do follow the basic TF formula.

5150 Cruiser wrote:You sure Bay said it wasn't a mistake?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0418279/faq#.2.1.35


Yes, he out right said he felt "Devestator" was a KOOLER sounding name and stuck with it.

He also said that to him, its Devestator not Brawl, despite what the writers said.

He made these comments at an Australian press conference covering the first films opening.I once had pleanty of links to the interview on my old computer.I posted them here back in 07.

But all that is lost now.

but i could have sworn in the DVD comentray of the first movie it was stated it was a mistake.


I dont believe so, but even if it wasnt a comment by Bay himself.Most of the behind the scenes stuff with Bay talking about the tank he refers to him as Devestator.

So your trying to tell me that in 25yrs they have never, and i mean never overlooked any of the writing that has been done for them? Sorry, i just don't by that.


Thats not what I said.

But the fact is unless it deviates from the premise the contract was based on,[like making them Ponies] then Hasbro has to abide by the contract they signed.
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds

T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach

Image
sto_vo_kor_2000
Guardian Of Seibertron
Posts: 6887
News Credits: 1
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 12:01 am

Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby Jelze Bunnycat » Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:46 pm

Motto: "The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance."
They only overlook what product is featured, and when. That's it. For 25 years. Besides, they have better things to do than question a company or person who knows how to draw people in. Remember, they don't have writers on the Hasbro staff, copywriter Forest Lee not included. All fiction is handled by commissioned companies, guided by Hasbro's basic story layout, emphasis on "guided".
The resident Rewind... well, half of one :lol:

- Jelze Bunnycat =:3

Looking for:
- TR Furos (Hardhead's head) and Crashbash (lost him :()
- PotP Punch head
- TR Galvatron right arm (the gun one)
- CW Brake-Neck/UW Wildrider, CW Offroad
- TR Twinferno & Grotusque
- Greenlight, Lancer and PotP Elita-1 (plus repro Victorion hands and feet?)
User avatar
Jelze Bunnycat
God Of Transformers
Posts: 19364
News Credits: 241
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 5:45 am
Location: McKinney, Texas, USA; Delft, the Netherlands
Strength: 5
Intelligence: 9
Speed: 8
Endurance: 7
Rank: 1
Courage: 8
Skill: 5

Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby 5150 Cruiser » Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:04 pm

Motto: "If it first you don't succeed,.. Sky diving is not for you!"
Weapon: Double-Barreled Self-Propelled Rocket Launcher
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
Hasbro really cant be blamed for any of that because of how the business operates.

Hasbro signed over the rights for a film to be made.Putting their foot down as you put it really isint an option.

True, its like "giving the keys to an interior designer for your house and then being pissed cause they painted wrong" but thats how it works in this business.Once they have signed over the rights thats pretty much it.

Unless the work completed deviates from what was wanted/agreed upon then the brand owner has no recourse to abide by the contract they signed or face fines for breach of contract.

And like them or nmot for their detail, the films do follow the basic TF formula..


Their's an old saying...
"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me".

Lets say your correct, and thats the rules in movie making. First movie comes out with all the stuff fans generaly had a problem with was all Bay and Co. Hasbro had no say in production and/or script. Now what anout the second movie? Or the third? They knew about the character not having ample screen time and dialoge that many would have liked to see, not to meantion the "Potty humor". If hasbro had a problem with it, then before script writing took place for ROTF or DOTM, those problems should have been addressed then and there.



sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote: Yes, he out right said he felt "Devestator" was a KOOLER sounding name and stuck with it.

He also said that to him, its Devestator not Brawl, despite what the writers said.

He made these comments at an Australian press conference covering the first films opening.I once had pleanty of links to the interview on my old computer.I posted them here back in 07.

But all that is lost now.


I'd like to see these links. Cause intill then, everything i have seen points to it being an honest mistake. And yes, bay did reffer to the tank as devestor on set. That has been openly admitted, but many of the characters were reffered to by their on set names that did not end up being their real movie names.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
So your trying to tell me that in 25yrs they have never, and i mean never overlooked any of the writing that has been done for them? Sorry, i just don't by that.


Thats not what I said.

But the fact is unless it deviates from the premise the contract was based on,[like making them Ponies] then Hasbro has to abide by the contract they signed.


Do you have proof that this is the way things operate? I'm not calling you a liar by any means, but i have a very hard time believing that in 25yrs time hasbro has never over seen a story and had changes made based on there like/dislike. I don't know anyone that just gives people that much free rien on any prodject.
Decepticons... Com in get yo ice cream!.... And then get yo ass whop'in!!

Suck my popsicle!! :p

Shadowman wrote:I will put forth the theory that it was the internet itself trying to punch him in the face.
5150 Cruiser
Headmaster
Posts: 1174
News Credits: 5
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 12:24 pm
Strength: 8
Intelligence: 8
Speed: 7
Endurance: 7
Rank: 8
Courage: 7
Firepower: 6
Skill: 9

Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby Jelze Bunnycat » Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:19 pm

Motto: "The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance."
5150 Cruiser wrote:Do you have proof that this is the way things operate? I'm not calling you a liar by any means, but i have a very hard time believing that in 25yrs time hasbro has never over seen a story and had changes made based on there like/dislike. I don't know anyone that just gives people that much free rien on any prodject.


I may not have proof, but I do have an example where Hasbro's intentions and the studios were complete opposites: Beast Wars. Observe:

Hasbro
Continuation of G2, with the events taking place on present day Earth, with Optimus Primal and Megatron being the same as the G1 characters. After a breaking into a Bio-Genetics lab Megatron with his Predacons makes himself into the ultimate fusion of organic and technological life. Optimus Primal and his Maximals follow suit.

Mainframe Entertainment
You know this one. Set in the far future, Optimus Primal (now a separate charater) is forced to give chase to Predacon criminal Megatron (also a new character) after he stole a sacred Maximal artifact. Via Transwarp both parties end up in the past, eventually crash-landing on a strange planet filled with unstable Energon Crystals. Both adopt Beast Modes to protect their bodies from the radiation, and the Beast Wars begin.

And Hasbro just let it happen. In case you're wondering, Hasbro's story was told in a single comic packed in with the Bat Primal and Gator Megatron 2-pack.

Point is, Hasbro has always been like that. They simply tell who needs to be featured, who can be killed off and let the studios go their merry way. If it works, power to them. ;)
The resident Rewind... well, half of one :lol:

- Jelze Bunnycat =:3

Looking for:
- TR Furos (Hardhead's head) and Crashbash (lost him :()
- PotP Punch head
- TR Galvatron right arm (the gun one)
- CW Brake-Neck/UW Wildrider, CW Offroad
- TR Twinferno & Grotusque
- Greenlight, Lancer and PotP Elita-1 (plus repro Victorion hands and feet?)
User avatar
Jelze Bunnycat
God Of Transformers
Posts: 19364
News Credits: 241
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 5:45 am
Location: McKinney, Texas, USA; Delft, the Netherlands
Strength: 5
Intelligence: 9
Speed: 8
Endurance: 7
Rank: 1
Courage: 8
Skill: 5

Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:37 pm

Motto: "Today is a good day to die......but the day is not yet over!"
5150 Cruiser wrote: Their's an old saying...
"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me".

Lets say your correct, and thats the rules in movie making. First movie comes out with all the stuff fans generaly had a problem with was all Bay and Co. Hasbro had no say in production and/or script. Now what anout the second movie? Or the third? They knew about the character not havinf apmle screen time and dialoge that many would have liked to see, not to meantion the "Potty humor".

That old saying doesnt apply here for 2 reasons.

1]The contracts signed arent for 1 movie.Its pretty standard for such contract to have provisions for multiple films.As long as they are done within a specified time frame.

Marvel is experiencing that issue as a problem with both the Spiderman and X-men films.

Marvel is pretty much making their own films now, Marvel studios, but they cant make a Spiderman film because the film rights belong to Sony, they alsdo cant make X-men or related films because the rights belong to 20th century Fox.

2]Not having ample screan time is an opinion, even if its shared by many its just an opinion.The dialog issues are a matter of personal taste, some didnt like it but many did.

They arent going to bow to the opinions and dislikes of a few within the fanbase when the films are being liked and accepted by the general audience.

If hasbro had a problem with it, then before script writing took place those problems should have been addressed then and there.


Again they have to abide by the contract.Unless the product devates in a large way there really isint much say in thev matter.
I'd like to see these links. Cause intill then, everything i have seen points to it being an honest mistake.


like I said the info is lost to me now.

The only source I can point to right now is a small mention of the interview on TF wiki.
From tf wiki
According to a fan who attended the Australian press conference, Bay had confirmed that he had decided to use the name "Devastator" because he had preferred it
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Brawl_%28Movie%29#Notes

the wiki artical refers to a post made by a member over at TFW2005.

But I hears a audio recording of the interview someone made.

Do you have proof that this is the way things operate?


outside of dozens of interviews I have read from film makers and what I learned while working for Marvel I would have to say no.

I dont have proof I can post.

But you can look at how long it took to make some films for clues.

Marvel wanted a Spiderman film made back nin n89 after Burtons sucsses with his Batman, but Sony and Camron had the rights so the film was delayed for years.

It wasnt till Camrons rights lapsed that Sony was able to contract Ramie to do the films.

And now Marvel wants them all back, but as long as Sony keeps producing films within a time frame set in the contract, Marvel cant get the rights back.And its the exact same situation with Fox and the X-films.

I'm not saying Hasbro had no input, but the limits of their input is defined before the contract is agreed to.

Now, with that said, I cant tell you how much input their contrack for the live action films allowed them.

But knowing the kind of film maskers Speliberg and Bay are, I doubt they signed up for any project they didnt have the majority of control over.
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds

T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach

Image
sto_vo_kor_2000
Guardian Of Seibertron
Posts: 6887
News Credits: 1
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 12:01 am

Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby Atary77 » Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:58 pm

OptiMagnus wrote:Incorrect claim #1
Atary77 wrote:To me the films were proof that hasbro as well didn't care enough about the TF fan base either.


Incorrect claim #2 with clever response
Treetop Maximus wrote:
Atary77 wrote:So let's see if they can learn anything from how we feel about these movies... not that they care.


Yeah, I hope they learn how much I loved this series.


Unfortunately for you, Atary, the claims I highlighted here invalidate your argument, especially the parts I put in bold and most especially the words I put in red. Treetop put it correctly.

The issue with these statements: You put every single Transformers "fan" in the same boat, which is the boat that dislikes the movies. You are assuming every "fan" who has seen these films is unsatisfied, basically pulling me onto a boat I don't want to be on, as I loved every (well, almost every) second of all three films, and bought tons of toys and love (nearly) all of them. Do you believe everyone dislikes these movies? Where's the boat I'm supposed to be on? Did it sink? Did I imagine it?
One of the biggest problems the TF fanbase has is that it's so common for someone to say "we", "us", or "the fans" to invalidate the opinions of those who don't share their opinion on a certain subject, and assume everyone thinks the same way as they do. I just hate it when someone says "Hasbro/Michael Bay doesn't care about the fans because they/he gave us movies we don't like". Also, one of these days you're going to realize that Hasbro doesn't serve "us": They do what they think is going to sell toys and keep Transformers alive. Yes, people, like yourself, dislike the films. Not everyone. Not everyone that calls themselves a Transformers fan. So, realistically, Hasbro can't serve "us". If they could, they'd have to have so many interpretations of everything so they could satisfy every individual. The world just doesn't work that way.
Unfortunately for you, the movies happened to accomplish more than Hasbro intended in the stae they were presented, and since there is a high demand for their toys and a majority satisfaction of the films, they aren't going to drop what they're doing, try to change what already happened, and listen to the rather unfortunate minority. Money talks, so who are they going to listen to? To avoid taking your quotes out of context, yes you did mention Hasbro is out to make money. But you never mentioned that they're out to please the majority. If the majority's happy, Hasbro's happy, and they claim success.
So, if Hasbro can learn anything from how I (not "we") feel about these movies, I want them to learn how much I love them and how much I want to see another movie like the other three in two years.
At the same time, I want them to learn from what you disliked about them, and how they can improve upon that, which may even make them richer. :D



You raise many interesting points. Mostly some errors that can be found in my statement which I'm glad you brought to my attention. Yes it is unfair to put every fan in the "I hated it" boat as there are in fact TF fans who love everything about these movies and wouldn't change anything about them. And if that's the case more power to you.
And yes you're right, Hasbro should try to learn and take in input from folks who weren't pleased with the movies and try to use that in order to make the movies a more rich experience than the last three.
However it's not cool to me when they totally disregard any criticism the films get simply cause a larger majority liked them.

And yes Hasbro is not a company that's not there for the sole purpose of pleasing it's fans. Matter of fact they are there to please the general public. But that's not to say they shouldn't make better efforts in order to KEEP pleasing the general public.

So yes to those that liked these movies Thank Hasbro, Bay, Spielberg, Kurtzman, and Orci as they've pleased you.

I on the other hand I guess will stick with my minority opinion on not liking these movies. I expect improvements to be made with the next trilogy of films. Most importantly that the robots are the stars of the movies, NOT the humans. To those of you who say that's not feasible to do in live action then by all means just make the whole thing CGI which would've been a better idea in my opinion.
Atary77
Mini-Con
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:12 pm

Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby OptiMagnus » Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:00 pm

Motto: ""Close your mouth and open your mind.""
Weapon: Gatling Cannon
Atary77 wrote:
OptiMagnus wrote:You raise many interesting points. Mostly some errors that can be found in my statement which I'm glad you brought to my attention. Yes it is unfair to put every fan in the "I hated it" boat as there are in fact TF fans who love everything about these movies and wouldn't change anything about them. And if that's the case more power to you.
And yes you're right, Hasbro should try to learn and take in input from folks who weren't pleased with the movies and try to use that in order to make the movies a more rich experience than the last three.
However it's not cool to me when they totally disregard any criticism the films get simply cause a larger majority liked them.

And yes Hasbro is not a company that's not there for the sole purpose of pleasing it's fans. Matter of fact they are there to please the general public. But that's not to say they shouldn't make better efforts in order to KEEP pleasing the general public.

So yes to those that liked these movies Thank Hasbro, Bay, Spielberg, Kurtzman, and Orci as they've pleased you.

I on the other hand I guess will stick with my minority opinion on not liking these movies. I expect improvements to be made with the next trilogy of films. Most importantly that the robots are the stars of the movies, NOT the humans. To those of you who say that's not feasible to do in live action then by all means just make the whole thing CGI which would've been a better idea in my opinion.

Just a question, did you see the third film? Because I think some of the criticism (not all, unfortunately) was taken to heart, especially the inappropriate humor, which only came up in one instance that I can recall. The rest of the jokes were silly. And not to give you the impression that I think the movies are perfect, but I was entertained overall. The humor was my biggest complaint, which was improved upon (thanks to Ehren Kruger and no Orci and Kurtzman). I'm okay with the screentime for the robots, and I'm okay with the story non-story. And ESPECIALLY I'm okay with Megan Fox getting the boot in the third film. Yes, I find women attractive, but I can only stand to hear her speak for so long.
And yes, Hasbro would be benefitted more if they keep pleasing the general public rather than temporarily pleasing it. I've only ever liked two Transformers TV series...I found the rest of them total slag. I only ever liked the toys. So, yeah. They're pretty bad at pleasing me consistently in that department.
Eh, what are we gonna do? I mean, when you look at the big picture, they're just movies and toys. Yes, we're all big fans on this website, but once in a while you have to accept things as they are.
Please note: If you think I may be joking, I probably am.
User avatar
OptiMagnus
Gestalt
Posts: 2182
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: Ohio, USA
Watch OptiMagnus on YouTube
Alt Mode: Stock Car
Strength: 10
Intelligence: 9
Speed: 8
Endurance: 4
Rank: 1
Courage: 3
Firepower: 10+
Skill: 6

Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby Atary77 » Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:14 pm

To answer your question OptiMagnus I didn't watch the third film yet. However does that make my opinions any less valid? One would think so however while I didn't go to theaters to watch this film I did research it and spoke with many individuals who saw it both locally and online. Granted this would sound rediculas but those I spoke with and the critic reviews I read share much of my same views. One of the many reviews I read was from screened.com a website I agree with very often. As for the input from my friends I didn't just ask them what they thought I pretty much had them give me the spoilers as to what happened. And regardless what others may think that's what I'm basing my opinions on for now until I somehow get lucky enough to see the movie without having to pay my well earned money for it.

I will agree that yes I've heard the humor and innuendo was toned down and not as present in the films which shows they've made one step in the right direction. However they still manage to hit one constant pot hole of not having the main villain more present through out the movie. And yes I mean Megatron. Humans never will and never should be the main villain in something that has to do with Transformers. Seriously the way Megatron is treated in these films, it's like if they decided never to show the Joker in Dark Knight until the last 10 minutes or just show a few minutes of him here and there.. and then turn him into an insecure whiner.

Bottom line, the Robots are the stars. Not the humans!
Atary77
Mini-Con
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:12 pm

Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:32 pm

Motto: "Today is a good day to die......but the day is not yet over!"
Atary77 wrote:Bottom line, the Robots are the stars. Not the humans!


I actually think this is a bit naive.

Any live action TF film set in modern times is going to NEED human stars if its going to be believable in even the smallest measure.

The fact that there was so little governmental interaction with the transformers in the original g1 toon was one of the most unbelieable aspects of the show.

What needs to be done it to find a better balance between the human characters and the robot characters.
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds

T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach

Image
sto_vo_kor_2000
Guardian Of Seibertron
Posts: 6887
News Credits: 1
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 12:01 am

Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby OptiMagnus » Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:10 pm

Motto: ""Close your mouth and open your mind.""
Weapon: Gatling Cannon
Atary77 wrote:To answer your question OptiMagnus I didn't watch the third film yet. However does that make my opinions any less valid? One would think so however while I didn't go to theaters to watch this film I did research it and spoke with many individuals who saw it both locally and online. Granted this would sound rediculas but those I spoke with and the critic reviews I read share much of my same views. One of the many reviews I read was from screened.com a website I agree with very often. As for the input from my friends I didn't just ask them what they thought I pretty much had them give me the spoilers as to what happened. And regardless what others may think that's what I'm basing my opinions on for now until I somehow get lucky enough to see the movie without having to pay my well earned money for it.

I will agree that yes I've heard the humor and innuendo was toned down and not as present in the films which shows they've made one step in the right direction. However they still manage to hit one constant pot hole of not having the main villain more present through out the movie. And yes I mean Megatron. Humans never will and never should be the main villain in something that has to do with Transformers. Seriously the way Megatron is treated in these films, it's like if they decided never to show the Joker in Dark Knight until the last 10 minutes or just show a few minutes of him here and there.. and then turn him into an insecure whiner.

Bottom line, the Robots are the stars. Not the humans!

No, I was curious to see if you thought the bad humor was toned down, because some people think there's more of it. I thought it was a step in the right direction from the last two.
Megatron, however, was a disappointment. Although the intent was for him to be overshadowed, as he was still injured from ROTF, and a new villain took charge. You probably already know who that is. However, Sentinel Prime was so evil I barely noticed.
I didn't remember the human villain as the main villain. All he did was kidnap Carly, go away for a short while, come back for a scene, go away for a bit, then tries to activate the last pillar of the space bridge where Sam kills him.. Literally, that's all he did as an evildoer. Laserbeak did a helluva lot more than he did.
And I though Megatron had a huge presence in the first two films, especially in ROTF, where he did all the dirty work for the lazy Fallen.
Please note: If you think I may be joking, I probably am.
User avatar
OptiMagnus
Gestalt
Posts: 2182
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2010 8:03 pm
Location: Ohio, USA
Watch OptiMagnus on YouTube
Alt Mode: Stock Car
Strength: 10
Intelligence: 9
Speed: 8
Endurance: 4
Rank: 1
Courage: 3
Firepower: 10+
Skill: 6

Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby shamone » Fri Jul 15, 2011 10:56 am

Treetop Maximus wrote:The unique selling point is that they come wih humans, obviously. Hasbro is selling toys of humans under the Transformers brand name. Robots are not their main focus.


the USP of the tranformers movies are selling robot toys, thats hasbros goal.

the humans are just another way to sell a slightly different toy
shamone
Combiner
Posts: 459
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:33 pm

Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby 5150 Cruiser » Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:05 pm

Motto: "If it first you don't succeed,.. Sky diving is not for you!"
Weapon: Double-Barreled Self-Propelled Rocket Launcher
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote: That old saying doesnt apply here for 2 reasons.

1]The contracts signed arent for 1 movie.Its pretty standard for such contract to have provisions for multiple films.As long as they are done within a specified time frame.


I can agree that many times contracts for films are made for multiple movies and when the first hits a certain profit margin, a sequel is automaticly green lit. But in this case, i still have a hard time believing that Hasbro did not at minimuim, write in the contract that they could revise as they saw fit between each movie based on one main point..

1.- This was all new. New to hasbro, New to Bay, new to the writers. No one knew how a live action movie would pan out on the big screen. It was a learning process. when you learning, your bound to make mistakes. Thus, you want to learn from them. SO for Hasbro to just up and sign a contract for three movies with zero say on how the end script/robot designs etc. pan out, makes zero sence.

I understand Hasbro does not do there own writing and outsource for this. But this isn't there first rodeo. Again, i'm not calling you a liar by any means, but i have a hrad time believing this is the standard contract for any comic book/toy brand movie adaption.




sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote: 2]Not having ample screan time is an opinion, even if its shared by many its just an opinion.The dialog issues are a matter of personal taste, some didnt like it but many did.

They arent going to bow to the opinions and dislikes of a few within the fanbase when the films are being liked and accepted by the general audience.



Your right it is an opinion and i'm not saying it is the correct one. I was just using it as an example since it seemed to be a comon complaint from people that didn't like the movies. And your right that nor Habro, bay, Spilsberg or anyone envolved is going to take the dislikes of a very, very small portion of the fan base as a reason to make provisions. Right now there something like a 90% approval on Rotten Tomatoes and 93% on fandango. So while many might think there are problems, the majority say they got it right. (for the most part).


sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:like I said the info is lost to me now.

The only source I can point to right now is a small mention of the interview on TF wiki.
From tf wiki
According to a fan who attended the Australian press conference, Bay had confirmed that he had decided to use the name "Devastator" because he had preferred it
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Brawl_%28Movie%29#Notes

the wiki artical refers to a post made by a member over at TFW2005.

But I hears a audio recording of the interview someone made.



Fair enough. But at this point more evidence is seeming to be pointing to it being a mistake. (at this point, i'm going to take the words from the producers and writers over one fan) And even if he did do it on purpose, it was the first movie. He made improvments throughout the next two movies (mainly the third). Personally, if someone whats to call foul on Bay for not caring about the fan base or characters, there are far better examples that one can use than one 2 sec. on screen name of a character.
Decepticons... Com in get yo ice cream!.... And then get yo ass whop'in!!

Suck my popsicle!! :p

Shadowman wrote:I will put forth the theory that it was the internet itself trying to punch him in the face.
5150 Cruiser
Headmaster
Posts: 1174
News Credits: 5
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 12:24 pm
Strength: 8
Intelligence: 8
Speed: 7
Endurance: 7
Rank: 8
Courage: 7
Firepower: 6
Skill: 9

Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby shamone » Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:11 pm

until we know the terms and conditions of the licensing we cannot blame or defend hasbro
shamone
Combiner
Posts: 459
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:33 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Transformers Live Action Film Forum

Transformers and More @ The Seibertron Store

Visit our store on eBay
These are affiliate links. We may earn commissions when you purchase items or services through these links.
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "FIRE POWER #12 Cvr E Image Comics 2021 APR210169 12E (W) Kirkman (CA) McFarlane"
FIRE POWER #12 Cvr ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "GUNSLINGER SPAWN #13 Cvr B Image Comics 2022 AUG220189 13B (CA) Booth"
GUNSLINGER SPAWN # ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "COBRA COMMANDER #2 Cvr A Image Comics 2024 2A 1223IM259 (CA) Milana + Leoni"
NEW!
COBRA COMMANDER #2 ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY #18 Cvr A Image Comics 2022 SEP210211 18A (CA) Camuncoli"
UNDISCOVERED COUNT ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "TRANSFORMERS #6 Cvr D 1:25 Image Comics 2024 Skybound 0124IM322 6D (CA) Canete"
NEW!
TRANSFORMERS #6 Cv ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "ICE CREAM MAN #34 Cvr A Image Comics 2023 SEP220271 34A (CA) Morazzo (W) Prince"
ICE CREAM MAN #34 ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "SPAWN #350 Cvr F B&W var Image Comics 2024 1123IM228 350F (CA) McFarlane"
NEW!
SPAWN #350 Cvr F B ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "SCORCHED #11 Cvr B Image Comics 2022 AUG220222 11B (CA) Keane (W) Lewis"
SCORCHED #11 Cvr B ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "SPAWN #345 Cvr A Image Comics 2023 JUN230357 345A (CA) Mele 231222E"
SPAWN #345 Cvr A I ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "TRANSFORMERS #1 2nd ptg Cvr E Image Comics 2023 0923IM828 (CA) Tocchini"
TRANSFORMERS #1 2n ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "WALKING DEAD DLX #78 Cvr A Image Comics 2023 1023IM394 78A (CA) Finch + McCaig"
WALKING DEAD DLX # ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "DUKE #1 Cvr A Image Comics 2023 1A GI JOE 0623IM806 (A/CA) Reilly (W)WIlliamson"
DUKE #1 Cvr A Imag ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "FIRE POWER #12 Cvr J Image Comics 2021 APR210174 12J (CA) Larsen (W) Kirkman"
FIRE POWER #12 Cvr ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "GUNSLINGER SPAWN #1 Cvr D Image Comics 2021 JUL219299 1D (CA) Capullo"
GUNSLINGER SPAWN # ...
* Price and quantities subject to change. Shipping costs, taxes and other fees not included in cost shown. Refer to listing for current price and availability.
Find the items above and thousands more at the Seibertron Store on eBay
Transformers Podcast: Twincast / Podcast #346 - Gas Station Jamboree
Twincast / Podcast #346:
"Gas Station Jamboree"
MP3 · iTunes · RSS · View · Discuss · Ask
Posted: Saturday, March 23rd, 2024

Featured Products on Amazon.com

These are affiliate links. We may earn commissions when you purchase items or services through these links.
Buy "Transformers Authentics Bumblebee" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers: Bumblebee -- Energon Igniters Nitro Series Barricade" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Studio Series 10 Deluxe Class Movie 1 Autobot Jazz" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers: Generations Power of The Primes Quintus Prime Prime Master" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Deluxe 20 Mercenary Action Figure" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Generations Power of The Primes Voyager Class Elita-1" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Generations Titans Return Deluxe Misfire and Aimless" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Generations Titans Return Deluxe Twin Twist and Flameout" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Generations Titans Return Autobot Hot Rod and Firedrive" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Generations Combiner Wars Deluxe Class Wheeljack" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers: The Last Knight Premier Edition Deluxe Strafe" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers: Robots in Disguise Combiner Force Team Combiner Galvatronus" on AMAZON