Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

Treetop Maximus wrote:

shamone wrote:

Treetop Maximus wrote:The unique selling point is that they come wih humans, obviously. Hasbro is selling toys of humans under the Transformers brand name. Robots are not their main focus.

the USP of the tranformers movies are selling robot toys, thats hasbros goal.

the humans are just another way to sell a slightly different toy

Another way to sell something? Oh, kind of like a unique selling point, AMIRITE?

Stov, if it's not important, why mention it?

the point was that haasbro would prefer more robot time than human time, considering kids want to buy the robots

i dont remember seeing many action figures of the humans on their own

Treetop Maximus wrote:
Another way to sell something? Oh, kind of like a unique selling point, AMIRITE?

Stov, if it's not important, why mention it?

Are you directing a question at me?

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:There is no difference between refusing the man and deciding his voice didnt fit.

Hasbro wanted him to use Welker, they tried him out and said no.Thats a refusal.

Sorry, i just don't see it that way. Hasbro wanted him. Bay tried his voice (Just like Cullen) and it was decided that it wouldn't work. Thats not a refusal.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:thats nonsense, we can choose to blame who we want for what we want.

Ultimately sure. But its not intirely fair if you know said party isn't responisble. (This isn't directed at Bay or anyone in particular, just generalizing)

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:And since Bay gets most of the accolades from those that loved trhe films, then its logical he gets most of the blame from those that didnt like the films.

He was the driving force behind the creative teams for the films.

It was his vision, his messege, its a Michel Bay film, as it says in most of the promos, praise or blame,the credit is Bays.

Again, thats one of the points for this thread. To attempt to see how much say Hasbro had in promoting their product and presumably, their highiest grosing product to date.

shamone wrote:the last part i agree with

a lot of pro bay fans are all about gving him the credit and blaming other forces for the failure

So what about Non bay fans? Are you saying they never give Bay any credit for anything they like and asume that it must be the result of other parties intervining?
Do you hold Bay 100% responisble for the end result of the movies? If there are parts of the movie you like, no matter how small, then do you give Bay credit?

5150 Cruiser wrote:Sorry, i just don't see it that way. Hasbro wanted him. Bay tried his voice (Just like Cullen) and it was decided that it wouldn't work. Thats not a refusal.

Hasbro wanted him. Bay tried his voice (Just like Cullen) and it was decided that it wouldn't work. Thats is a refusal by definition.

Now you may feel its too strong a word, but it still applies.

Definition of REFUSAL

1: the act of refusing or denying
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/refusal

Ultimately sure. But its not intirely fair if you know said party isn't responisble. (This isn't directed at Bay or anyone in particular, just generalizing)

Well in this case the one being blame does bear the weight of the responsibility.

Again, thats one of the points for this thread. To attempt to see how much say Hasbro had in promoting their product and presumably, their highiest grosing product to date.

Again, its a Michel Bay film, based on a toyline.

5150 Cruiser wrote:Do you hold Bay 100% responisble for the end result of the movies?

For the most part Yes.

He was in the drivers seat.

Sure the writers and others were involved, but he ok'ed everything.

If there are parts of the movie you like, no matter how small, then do you give Bay credit?

yes

5150 Cruiser wrote:

shamone wrote:the last part i agree with

a lot of pro bay fans are all about gving him the credit and blaming other forces for the failure

So what about Non bay fans? Are you saying they never give Bay any credit for anything they like and asume that it must be the result of other parties intervining?
Do you hold Bay 100% responisble for the end result of the movies? If there are parts of the movie you like, no matter how small, then do you give Bay credit?

not at all, im saying nothing about non bay fans. im saying that most bay fans here look for any excuse for flaws in the movie other than blaming bay

i dont hold bay 100 per cent responsible for the movies. in my posts i have blamed spielberg and the producers and the scriptwriters.

shamone wrote:

5150 Cruiser wrote:

shamone wrote:the last part i agree with

a lot of pro bay fans are all about gving him the credit and blaming other forces for the failure

So what about Non bay fans? Are you saying they never give Bay any credit for anything they like and asume that it must be the result of other parties intervining?
Do you hold Bay 100% responisble for the end result of the movies? If there are parts of the movie you like, no matter how small, then do you give Bay credit?

not at all, im saying nothing about non bay fans. im saying that most bay fans here look for any excuse for flaws in the movie other than blaming bay

i dont hold bay 100 per cent responsible for the movies. in my posts i have blamed spielberg and the producers and the scriptwriters.

As long as you aknowledge the pengulum swings both ways. Non bay fans (just like Bay fans) have done their fair share pointing the finger were it didn't belong.

Has Bay ever even seen a TF cartoon? How the hell did he get it so wrong?? Optimus Prime a cold hearted murderer,that ruthlessly kills unarmed,injured opponents??? Yeah,right!! Starscream,, a seasoned warrior that has battled the Autobots for a thousand years,crying like a little girl when some insect pokes him in the eye???? ****,,the Starscream I grew up with would've whipped out his sword and sliced Witwicky to pieces before he hit the freakin' ground!!! I hope Hasbro sells no toys, I certainly won't be buying any. This latest installment sucks balls bigtime,, grateful the latest cartoon series has stayed true.

Wow, you're pretty tense. Got off from the recharger with a wrong servo?

And no, I'm not kidding.

I was very upset, still am. The whole movie was so wrong on so many levels. Ultra violent, smutty, humourless. It should not have carried the Transformers name, if it was called 'Robot Maniac Attack' it would have been passable as a summer timewaster. Sentinel Prime sell out to the Decepticons? Yeah,right, & Obi Wan just went over to the Dark side!!!

dylansdad wrote:I was very upset, still am. The whole movie was so wrong on so many levels. Ultra violent, smutty, humourless. It should not have carried the Transformers name, if it was called 'Robot Maniac Attack' it would have been passable as a summer timewaster. Sentinel Prime sell out to the Decepticons? Yeah,right, & Obi Wan just went over to the Dark side!!!

So your equating Sentinel Prime with Obi Wan???

Thats a big stretch.

Sorry,should have been Qui Jon,, & Optimus as Obi Wan.Don't you get what I'm on about? In all the cartoon series,from G1 to Animated, the Autobot leaders have always been noble & compassionate,I can't remember them ever killing an unarmed,injured opponent.

dylansdad wrote:Sorry,should have been Qui Jon,, & Optimus as Obi Wan.

I still dont see the comparison.But that doesnt matter.

Don't you get what I'm on about? In all the cartoon series,from G1 to Animated, the Autobot leaders have always been noble & compassionate,I can't remember them ever killing an unarmed,injured opponent.

I get what your talking about but it seems your only useing the toons as a refrance, which is quit limiting.

The toons need to be marketed twards kids, so they arent going to show the realities of war.

The comics on the other hand.............

Rodimus Primes shoots and kills an injured unarmed opponent.




Thats from the G1 Marvel comics.

Sorry,my point of reference is the cartoons,I have never read the comics.I think the main issue that bothers me is:Transformers were created by Hasbro,wonderful toys aimed at boys,5 to 12 years old(by then we discover girls & the toys get forgotten!)Bay's movies are obviously aimed at teens to mature men,way too violent & sexualized for the original,younger audience.I took my 10 yr old son to see it, not really aware of the content(read a few reviews beforehand,no mention of extreme violence).The poor little guy was nearly in tears,people exploding,blood & guts flying everywhere,& afterwards,the questions."Why did Optimus kill Megatron after he helped him? Why did all the people die?"etc,etc. I have always used the cartoons as a moral guide for my son,they were something we could enjoy & relate to together.I feel betrayed.

dylansdad wrote:Sorry,my point of reference is the cartoons,I have never read the comics.I think the main issue that bothers me is:Transformers were created by Hasbro,wonderful toys aimed at boys,5 to 12 years old(by then we discover girls & the toys get forgotten!)Bay's movies are obviously aimed at teens to mature men,way too violent & sexualized for the original,younger audience.I took my 10 yr old son to see it, not really aware of the content(read a few reviews beforehand,no mention of extreme violence).The poor little guy was nearly in tears,people exploding,blood & guts flying everywhere,& afterwards,the questions."Why did Optimus kill Megatron after he helped him? Why did all the people die?"etc,etc. I have always used the cartoons as a moral guide for my son,they were something we could enjoy & relate to together.I feel betrayed.

I'm sorry you feel betrayed, and I'm not a fan of the Bay TF films, but I'm not sure why you were shocked by the violent & sexualized nature of this last film.

I mean really?After the first 2 films of the series, with all the sex jokes and violence you were really surprised by the same from the 3rd film?

Sorry if this sounds rude but.........Seems to me that if you son want ready for that type of images its something you should have researched before going to the movies.

The "PG" stands for Parental Guidance.

dylansdad wrote: Sorry,my point of reference is the cartoons,I have never read the comics.I think the main issue that bothers me is:Transformers were created by Hasbro,wonderful toys aimed at boys,5 to 12 years old(by then we discover girls & the toys get forgotten!)Bay's movies are obviously aimed at teens to mature men,way too violent & sexualized for the original,younger audience.I took my 10 yr old son to see it, not really aware of the content(read a few reviews beforehand,no mention of extreme violence).The poor little guy was nearly in tears,people exploding,blood & guts flying everywhere,& afterwards,the questions."Why did Optimus kill Megatron after he helped him? Why did all the people die?"etc,etc. I have always used the cartoons as a moral guide for my son,they were something we could enjoy & relate to together.I feel betrayed.

I think the main point sto_vo_kor_2000 was making is Optimus Prime's "Behavior" is nothing new in TF. You just haven't seen it till now.
I am a fan of the movies, but i do understand where your coming from. I'd love to take my nephew to see DOTM, but being 9 himself, i know its not for his age bracket. SO for time being, we watch TF: Prime instead.
You say you did research before hand.... yet you didn't find any reviews stating about the violence. Not sure were you read your reviews because the violence aspect as well as Optimus Primes behavior seems to be the main focus of nearly every critic review. (That and the 3D). But to be honest, you don't need to look any further than the rating system. Its rated PG-13 for a reason. Not to be rude myself, but as a parent, the PG-13 should of sent up an immediate red flag. And like sto_vo_kor_2000 said; considering the last two movies, you can't honestly say your surprised by DOTM. If you hadn't seen them and if you say you couldn't find an reviews, then i might have been a good idea to view them so you had a good idea to what you were taking your son to.
I can understand using cartoons as a moral guide. There made for kids, marketed for kids. The movies are made for the general audience and marketed as so.

5150 Cruiser wrote: I think the main point sto_vo_kor_2000 was making is Optimus Prime's "Behavior" is nothing new in TF. You just haven't seen it till now.

exactly.

Disregard this post. I let my inner troll take over.

dylansdad wrote:Sorry,my point of reference is the cartoons,I have never read the comics.I think the main issue that bothers me is:Transformers were created by Hasbro,wonderful toys aimed at boys,5 to 12 years old(by then we discover girls & the toys get forgotten!)Bay's movies are obviously aimed at teens to mature men,way too violent & sexualized for the original,younger audience.I took my 10 yr old son to see it, not really aware of the content(read a few reviews beforehand,no mention of extreme violence).The poor little guy was nearly in tears,people exploding,blood & guts flying everywhere,& afterwards,the questions."Why did Optimus kill Megatron after he helped him? Why did all the people die?"etc,etc. I have always used the cartoons as a moral guide for my son,they were something we could enjoy & relate to together.I feel betrayed.

Who cares? They're damn robots. I can relate to movie Optimus and I applaud his brutality. I cant stand TF Prime Optimus.

Watched the first two movies again over the weekend to get my act together.Sure,people died,but a young man doesn't tend to equate buidings,jets,cars exploding to people dying.In DOTM people were exploding(blood,guts,gore)in the foreground(thank **** we didn't see the 3D version!).I DID read rewiews,"what a blast,better than the others,etc,etc".No mention of people exloding! And I stand by my disgust of what Bay did to Optimus Prime. Heroes MUST be beyond reproach(Spiderman,Batman,Yoda,beware the darkside,anger,).They MUST be something to aspire to. When you start cold bloodedly killing unarmed,injured opponents,you become as bad as the oppressor.The scene where the autobots had been captured,& Shockwave got the word to "take no prisoners",made me cringe!Bay had Optimus do exactly the same thing!!!!!What the !!!!! NOT killing is a good thing,an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. What,,,he couldn't get Optimus to beat the crap out of the Decipticons,then convince them to change sides, he couldn't get Optimus to kick Megatron in the arse(after he saved him from Sentinal) & tell him to **** off back to Cybertron??? It could have been SO much better,so easily. And don't get me started on what he did to Starscream!!! Bay is a ****,,I hope someone like Burton takes the reigns for the next installment.

I need to watch DOTM again,bought the DVD in Bali 3 weeks ago,didn't watch it,(although my young bloke harrassed me daily since,didn't want to spoil the big screen experience),probably should have!!!!

dylansdad wrote: And I stand by my disgust of what Bay did to Optimus Prime. Heroes MUST be beyond reproach(Spiderman,Batman,Yoda,beware the darkside,anger,).

Wow, I cant believe you just said "Heroes MUST be beyond reproach" and then cite Spiderman & Batman as if they fit the definition of being "beyond reproach".

Are you aware that in their long publication histories, Both Batman and spiderman have killed some of their enemies?

Spiderman didnt in the films, But Batman has.

hope someone like Burton takes the reigns for the next installment.

Burton's Batman killed.

I have a big truck, a cherry picker(elevating work platform)with an autobot logo on the nose,we call him 'Loftimus Prime',my car has Autobot logos front & rear, Autobot Rio, I've constantly tried to show my young bloke 'the right way' to live, I've used Optimus Prime as our example.In ALL the toons, he is honourable & compassionate to a fault. Now I'm sad.

You still don't get it,, Life is precious,irrespective of what they've done. The moment we lower ourselves to their lows,we become just as bad. Who the heck did Batman kill?? Trying to think,,did he do it knowingly? Or was it by inaction, or direct action? & Rodimus Prime is a bad example of thoughtless brutality,,just a soldier thrust into authority b4 he was ready.

dylansdad wrote:You still don't get it,, Life is precious,irrespective of what they've done. The moment we lower ourselves to their lows,we become just as bad.

No, you dont get it.

Your passing off your opinions about the mater as facts.Fine, I get it, you didnt like it, you were disapointed.

None of that makes it wrong.

Who the heck did Batman kill??

A few in the comics in the almost 72 years of comics

In the films, lets just say Burtons 2 films, one guy he was fighting in the bell tower in the first film, in the 2nd film he killed one of Penguins gang members.

Trying to think,,did he do it knowingly?

certinly

Or was it by inaction, or direct action?

In delibrate direct action.

& Rodimus Prime is a bad example of thoughtless brutality,,just a soldier thrust into authority b4 he was ready.

Again, your confusing the toon and the comics.

comic Rodimus didnt have the same problems.

Comic Rodimus is a perfect example.