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Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Discuss anything and everything related to the Transformers Live Action Films franchise, which are directed by Michael Bay. Transformers 3 is scheduled to be released on July 1st, 2011. Check out our Live Action Film section here.

Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby 5150 Cruiser » Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:42 pm

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shamone wrote:until we know the terms and conditions of the licensing we cannot blame or defend hasbro


Thats fair. But in the same sence the same can be said about Bay, Spielsberg, and the writers on certain aspects of the film.
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Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:09 pm

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5150 Cruiser wrote: I can agree that many times contracts for films are made for multiple movies and when the first hits a certain profit margin, a sequel is automaticly green lit. But in this case, i still have a hard time believing that Hasbro did not at minimuim, write in the contract that they could revise as they saw fit between each movie based on one main point..

1.- This was all new. New to hasbro, New to Bay, new to the writers. No one knew how a live action movie would pan out on the big screen. It was a learning process. when you learning, your bound to make mistakes. Thus, you want to learn from them. SO for Hasbro to just up and sign a contract for three movies with zero say on how the end script/robot designs etc. pan out, makes zero sence.


As I stated, knowing Spielberg and Bay, I'm sure they wouldnt have signed up unless they had full creative control.

And given that, Hasbro would have had 2 choices, agree or find someone else.

And the truth is, Spielberg and Bay are good bets.Turn them down and theres a good chance you wont get anyone else, of that Caliber, to take the project.

I understand Hasbro does not do there own writing and outsource for this. But this isn't there first rodeo. Again, i'm not calling you a liar by any means, but i have a hrad time believing this is the standard contract for any comic book/toy brand movie adaption.


I'm not saying its standard, but its common when playing with the Big boys like Spielberg and Bay.

If I was Hasbro, I would have taken a shot with a l esser known director.But they wanted big names attached to the creative team.

Your right it is an opinion and i'm not saying it is the correct one. I was just using it as an example since it seemed to be a comon complaint from people that didn't like the movies. And your right that nor Habro, bay, Spilsberg or anyone envolved is going to take the dislikes of a very, very small portion of the fan base as a reason to make provisions. Right now there something like a 90% approval on Rotten Tomatoes and 93% on fandango. So while many might think there are problems, the majority say they got it right. (for the most part).


sad but true

Fair enough. But at this point more evidence is seeming to be pointing to it being a mistake.


I wouldnt call "Excuses" evidence.

Sorry but it seems unlikely that it was a mistake.they did several test screenings for the cast,creators and Hasbro, and at leat 2 for the public [selected persons]

I know from what the writers claim they informed all involved about the naming issue at the first screen test and at each that followed.And they expect us to believe that it still slipped buy all those guys.

No less they told us it would be fixed for the DVD release, but I heard Bay made a comment like "theres nothing to fix".
there are far better examples that one can use than one 2 sec. on screen name of a character.


it actually appeared 2 times on film, but thats not important.

And I'm not trying to cry "foul" or anything, I'm just showing it as an example that its likely Bay would have done vwhat he wanted.
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Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby Treetop Maximus » Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:17 pm

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shamone wrote:
Treetop Maximus wrote:The unique selling point is that they come wih humans, obviously. Hasbro is selling toys of humans under the Transformers brand name. Robots are not their main focus.


the USP of the tranformers movies are selling robot toys, thats hasbros goal.

the humans are just another way to sell a slightly different toy


Another way to sell something? Oh, kind of like a unique selling point, AMIRITE?

Stov, if it's not important, why mention it?
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Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby 5150 Cruiser » Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:49 pm

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sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
there are far better examples that one can use than one 2 sec. on screen name of a character.


it actually appeared 2 times on film, but thats not important.

And I'm not trying to cry "foul" or anything, I'm just showing it as an example that its likely Bay would have done vwhat he wanted.


Ok, so as i'm typing this, i'm watching the G1 episode "Megatron's Master Plan" on the Hub. The simularites on this episode and the plot in DOTM are very simular in the part that Autobots are banished from earth and Megatron wants to suck our planet dry of its resources. Idea's taken right out of TF mytho's. So even if Bay wanted to use devestator and not Brawl, i'd say there are plenty of examples of Bay (if you want to hold him responisble) using many G1 and TF mytho refrances. NOt to meantion recruiting some of the oringal G1 voice actors which was probably the biggest nod to the TF fandom. So give the guy a break. ;) I'm not saying you have to be frineds and have the guy over for dinner and a beer (Mike, your always welcomed at my place! :APPLAUSE: ), but be fair and give him some credit.
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Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:30 am

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5150 Cruiser wrote:
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
there are far better examples that one can use than one 2 sec. on screen name of a character.


it actually appeared 2 times on film, but thats not important.

And I'm not trying to cry "foul" or anything, I'm just showing it as an example that its likely Bay would have done vwhat he wanted.


Ok, so as i'm typing this, i'm watching the G1 episode "Megatron's Master Plan" on the Hub. The simularites on this episode and the plot in DOTM are very simular in the part that Autobots are banished from earth and Megatron wants to suck our planet dry of its resources. Idea's taken right out of TF mytho's. So even if Bay wanted to use devestator and not Brawl, i'd say there are plenty of examples of Bay (if you want to hold him responisble) using many G1 and TF mytho refrances. NOt to meantion recruiting some of the oringal G1 voice actors which was probably the biggest nod to the TF fandom. So give the guy a break. ;) I'm not saying you have to be frineds and have the guy over for dinner and a beer (Mike, your always welcomed at my place! :APPLAUSE: ), but be fair and give him some credit.


I'll admit I'm sometimes ignorant of voice actors by name, but the only G1 voice actors I know of is Peter Cullen and Frank Welker [Nimoy doesnt really count] and no less it was Hasbro that insistent that Bay allow him to audition for the part.

Bay didnt exactly want Peter from the start.And he refused Welker in the role of Megatron.

Anyway thats not really the point, When it comes to giving credit, one must weigh what was done right vrs what was done wrong.Thats going to fall to the opinions of each person making judgments.

You feel its wrong that so many within the fandom complain and judge bay poorly, but what you dont see is that your just as wrong for complaining about those complaining about Bay.
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Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby 5150 Cruiser » Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:42 pm

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sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote: I'll admit I'm sometimes ignorant of voice actors by name, but the only G1 voice actors I know of is Peter Cullen and Frank Welker [Nimoy doesnt really count] and no less it was Hasbro that insistent that Bay allow him to audition for the part. Bay didnt exactly want Peter from the start.And he refused Welker in the role of Megatron..


Sorry, but your incorrect. Yes, Hasbro suggested Peter Cullen since Bay was not yet familuar with TF and its back grounds. Once he saw a couple of G1 episodes, he was 100% on board with Peter Cullen being Prime. He was never at any point opposed to using him, even before he saw the orignal cartoons.
Welker on the other hand they weren't opposed to, but after looking at the new design of Megatron, and matching up voices, it was decided that Hugo Weaving's voice better suited the design. All of this was on the DVD comentary for the first movie.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote: Anyway thats not really the point, When it comes to giving credit, one must weigh what was done right vrs what was done wrong.Thats going to fall to the opinions of each person making judgments.


Very true. But my point about giving credit is more about people blaming Bay for the things they don't like, but whatever they do like, hasbro or anyone who is not Bay must be responsible.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:You feel its wrong that so many within the fandom complain and judge bay poorly, but what you dont see is that your just as wrong for complaining about those complaining about Bay.

Its not that i feel it wrong, but like the topic of this thread, I don't feel the end result of these movies land on the hands of one person, and one person only.
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Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:09 pm

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5150 Cruiser wrote: Sorry, but your incorrect. Yes, Hasbro suggested Peter Cullen since Bay was not yet familuar with TF and its back grounds. Once he saw a couple of G1 episodes, he was 100% on board with Peter Cullen being Prime.


Sorry but I'm not incorrect.Both Bay and Cullen have spoken on this quite offten..Bay even said after seening a few G1 episodes he wasnt sold on Cullens ability to bring forth the character the way he invisioned it.

Bay said he wasnt solid on Cullen till his 2nd reading for him.

He was never at any point opposed to using him,


When did I say he was "opposed" to useing Cullen.I only said he did not originally intend to use Cullen.
Welker on the other hand they weren't opposed to, but after looking at the new design of Megatron, and matching up voices, it was decided that Hugo Weaving's voice better suited the design. All of this was on the DVD comentary for the first movie.


So, what your saying is that he reused Welker.

Thanks for repeating what I said.

Its not that i feel it wrong, but like the topic of this thread, I don't feel the end result of these movies land on the hands of one person, and one person only.


It may be true that he's not the only one that can be held on the hook, but theres a school of thought that supports the reasons for blaming him.
Auteur theory
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auteur_theory
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Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby 5150 Cruiser » Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:22 pm

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sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote: Sorry but I'm not incorrect.Both Bay and Cullen have spoken on this quite offten..Bay even said after seening a few G1 episodes he wasnt sold on Cullens ability to bring forth the character the way he invisioned it.

Bay said he wasnt solid on Cullen till his 2nd reading for him.


Then that contradicts the DVD comentary then. I don't doubt he had an audition for the voice acting, But either way, it sounds like Bay ultimatly gave peter Cullen the Go in the movie to Voice Optimus. :P

So, what your saying is that he reused Welker.

Thanks for repeating what I said.


Not sure if meant reused, or refused. I'm guessing you meant refused? And if so, no. Refusing, and not using is completely different. They gave Welkers Voice a shot, but it just didn't work out.




sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:It may be true that he's not the only one that can be held on the hook, but theres a school of thought that supports the reasons for blaming him.
Auteur theory
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auteur_theory


School or thought or not, one can't pick and choose what to blame the director for what they like/dislike without acknowledging the other parties envloved.
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Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:35 pm

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5150 Cruiser wrote: Then that contradicts the DVD comentary then.


I wouldnt called it a real contradiction.

Bay and many film makers tend to "editorilise" their statements for DVD commentaries to make them sound more positive..

I don't doubt he had an audition for the voice acting, But either way, it sounds like Bay ultimatly gave peter Cullen the Go in the movie to Voice Optimus. :P


Verty true.I think he came to love Cullens voice as much as we all do.


Not sure if meant reused, or refused.


refused, sorry typo.

I'm guessing you meant refused? And if so, no. Refusing, and not using is completely different. They gave Welkers Voice a shot, but it just didn't work out.


Now your "editorializing" to make it sound more positive.

There is no difference between refusing the man and deciding his voice didnt fit.

Hasbro wanted him to use Welker, they tried him out and said no.Thats a refusal.

School or thought or not, one can't pick and choose what to blame the director for what they like/dislike without acknowledging the other parties envloved.


thats nonsense, we can choose to blame who we want for what we want.

And since Bay gets most of the accolades from those that loved trhe films, then its logical he gets most of the blame from those that didnt like the films.

He was the driving force behind the creative teams for the films.

It was his vision, his messege, its a Michel Bay film, as it says in most of the promos, praise or blame,the credit is Bays.
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Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby shamone » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:20 pm

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
5150 Cruiser wrote: Then that contradicts the DVD comentary then.


I wouldnt called it a real contradiction.

Bay and many film makers tend to "editorilise" their statements for DVD commentaries to make them sound more positive..

I don't doubt he had an audition for the voice acting, But either way, it sounds like Bay ultimatly gave peter Cullen the Go in the movie to Voice Optimus. :P


Verty true.I think he came to love Cullens voice as much as we all do.


Not sure if meant reused, or refused.


refused, sorry typo.

I'm guessing you meant refused? And if so, no. Refusing, and not using is completely different. They gave Welkers Voice a shot, but it just didn't work out.


Now your "editorializing" to make it sound more positive.

There is no difference between refusing the man and deciding his voice didnt fit.

Hasbro wanted him to use Welker, they tried him out and said no.Thats a refusal.

School or thought or not, one can't pick and choose what to blame the director for what they like/dislike without acknowledging the other parties envloved.


thats nonsense, we can choose to blame who we want for what we want.

And since Bay gets most of the accolades from those that loved trhe films, then its logical he gets most of the blame from those that didnt like the films.

He was the driving force behind the creative teams for the films.

It was his vision, his messege, its a Michel Bay film, as it says in most of the promos, praise or blame,the credit is Bays.


the last part i agree with

a lot of pro bay fans are all about gving him the credit and blaming other forces for the failure
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Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby shamone » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:30 pm

Treetop Maximus wrote:
shamone wrote:
Treetop Maximus wrote:The unique selling point is that they come wih humans, obviously. Hasbro is selling toys of humans under the Transformers brand name. Robots are not their main focus.


the USP of the tranformers movies are selling robot toys, thats hasbros goal.

the humans are just another way to sell a slightly different toy


Another way to sell something? Oh, kind of like a unique selling point, AMIRITE?

Stov, if it's not important, why mention it?


the point was that haasbro would prefer more robot time than human time, considering kids want to buy the robots

i dont remember seeing many action figures of the humans on their own
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Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:36 pm

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Treetop Maximus wrote:
Another way to sell something? Oh, kind of like a unique selling point, AMIRITE?

Stov, if it's not important, why mention it?


Are you directing a question at me?
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Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby 5150 Cruiser » Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:23 pm

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sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:There is no difference between refusing the man and deciding his voice didnt fit.

Hasbro wanted him to use Welker, they tried him out and said no.Thats a refusal.



Sorry, i just don't see it that way. Hasbro wanted him. Bay tried his voice (Just like Cullen) and it was decided that it wouldn't work. Thats not a refusal.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:thats nonsense, we can choose to blame who we want for what we want.


Ultimately sure. But its not intirely fair if you know said party isn't responisble. (This isn't directed at Bay or anyone in particular, just generalizing)

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:And since Bay gets most of the accolades from those that loved trhe films, then its logical he gets most of the blame from those that didnt like the films.

He was the driving force behind the creative teams for the films.

It was his vision, his messege, its a Michel Bay film, as it says in most of the promos, praise or blame,the credit is Bays.


Again, thats one of the points for this thread. To attempt to see how much say Hasbro had in promoting their product and presumably, their highiest grosing product to date.
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Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby 5150 Cruiser » Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:30 pm

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shamone wrote:the last part i agree with

a lot of pro bay fans are all about gving him the credit and blaming other forces for the failure


So what about Non bay fans? Are you saying they never give Bay any credit for anything they like and asume that it must be the result of other parties intervining?
Do you hold Bay 100% responisble for the end result of the movies? If there are parts of the movie you like, no matter how small, then do you give Bay credit?
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Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:43 pm

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5150 Cruiser wrote:Sorry, i just don't see it that way. Hasbro wanted him. Bay tried his voice (Just like Cullen) and it was decided that it wouldn't work. Thats not a refusal.


Hasbro wanted him. Bay tried his voice (Just like Cullen) and it was decided that it wouldn't work. Thats is a refusal by definition.

Now you may feel its too strong a word, but it still applies.

Definition of REFUSAL

1: the act of refusing or denying
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/refusal
Ultimately sure. But its not intirely fair if you know said party isn't responisble. (This isn't directed at Bay or anyone in particular, just generalizing)


Well in this case the one being blame does bear the weight of the responsibility.

Again, thats one of the points for this thread. To attempt to see how much say Hasbro had in promoting their product and presumably, their highiest grosing product to date.


Again, its a Michel Bay film, based on a toyline.
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Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:44 pm

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5150 Cruiser wrote:Do you hold Bay 100% responisble for the end result of the movies?


For the most part Yes.

He was in the drivers seat.

Sure the writers and others were involved, but he ok'ed everything.

If there are parts of the movie you like, no matter how small, then do you give Bay credit?


yes
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Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby shamone » Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:32 pm

5150 Cruiser wrote:
shamone wrote:the last part i agree with

a lot of pro bay fans are all about gving him the credit and blaming other forces for the failure


So what about Non bay fans? Are you saying they never give Bay any credit for anything they like and asume that it must be the result of other parties intervining?
Do you hold Bay 100% responisble for the end result of the movies? If there are parts of the movie you like, no matter how small, then do you give Bay credit?



not at all, im saying nothing about non bay fans. im saying that most bay fans here look for any excuse for flaws in the movie other than blaming bay

i dont hold bay 100 per cent responsible for the movies. in my posts i have blamed spielberg and the producers and the scriptwriters.
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Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby 5150 Cruiser » Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:45 pm

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shamone wrote:
5150 Cruiser wrote:
shamone wrote:the last part i agree with

a lot of pro bay fans are all about gving him the credit and blaming other forces for the failure


So what about Non bay fans? Are you saying they never give Bay any credit for anything they like and asume that it must be the result of other parties intervining?
Do you hold Bay 100% responisble for the end result of the movies? If there are parts of the movie you like, no matter how small, then do you give Bay credit?



not at all, im saying nothing about non bay fans. im saying that most bay fans here look for any excuse for flaws in the movie other than blaming bay

i dont hold bay 100 per cent responsible for the movies. in my posts i have blamed spielberg and the producers and the scriptwriters.


As long as you aknowledge the pengulum swings both ways. Non bay fans (just like Bay fans) have done their fair share pointing the finger were it didn't belong.
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Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby dylansdad » Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:04 am

Motto: "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."
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Has Bay ever even seen a TF cartoon? How the hell did he get it so wrong?? Optimus Prime a cold hearted murderer,that ruthlessly kills unarmed,injured opponents??? Yeah,right!! Starscream,, a seasoned warrior that has battled the Autobots for a thousand years,crying like a little girl when some insect pokes him in the eye???? Shit,,the Starscream I grew up with would've whipped out his sword and sliced Witwicky to pieces before he hit the freakin' ground!!! I hope Hasbro sells no toys, I certainly won't be buying any. This latest installment sucks balls bigtime,, grateful the latest cartoon series has stayed true.
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Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby Red 50 » Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:24 pm

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Wow, you're pretty tense. Got off from the recharger with a wrong servo?

And no, I'm not kidding.
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Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby dylansdad » Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:07 pm

Motto: "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."
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I was very upset, still am. The whole movie was so wrong on so many levels. Ultra violent, smutty, humourless. It should not have carried the Transformers name, if it was called 'Robot Maniac Attack' it would have been passable as a summer timewaster. Sentinel Prime sell out to the Decepticons? Yeah,right, & Obi Wan just went over to the Dark side!!!
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Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:12 pm

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dylansdad wrote:I was very upset, still am. The whole movie was so wrong on so many levels. Ultra violent, smutty, humourless. It should not have carried the Transformers name, if it was called 'Robot Maniac Attack' it would have been passable as a summer timewaster. Sentinel Prime sell out to the Decepticons? Yeah,right, & Obi Wan just went over to the Dark side!!!


So your equating Sentinel Prime with Obi Wan???

Thats a big stretch.
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Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby dylansdad » Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:42 pm

Motto: "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."
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Sorry,should have been Qui Jon,, & Optimus as Obi Wan.Don't you get what I'm on about? In all the cartoon series,from G1 to Animated, the Autobot leaders have always been noble & compassionate,I can't remember them ever killing an unarmed,injured opponent.
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Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:00 pm

Motto: "Today is a good day to die......but the day is not yet over!"
dylansdad wrote:Sorry,should have been Qui Jon,, & Optimus as Obi Wan.

I still dont see the comparison.But that doesnt matter.

Don't you get what I'm on about? In all the cartoon series,from G1 to Animated, the Autobot leaders have always been noble & compassionate,I can't remember them ever killing an unarmed,injured opponent.


I get what your talking about but it seems your only useing the toons as a refrance, which is quit limiting.

The toons need to be marketed twards kids, so they arent going to show the realities of war.

The comics on the other hand.............

Rodimus Primes shoots and kills an injured unarmed opponent.
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Thats from the G1 Marvel comics.
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Re: Why does no one hold Hasbro acountable for the movies?

Postby dylansdad » Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:09 pm

Motto: "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."
Weapon: Energon Buzzsaw
Sorry,my point of reference is the cartoons,I have never read the comics.I think the main issue that bothers me is:Transformers were created by Hasbro,wonderful toys aimed at boys,5 to 12 years old(by then we discover girls & the toys get forgotten!)Bay's movies are obviously aimed at teens to mature men,way too violent & sexualized for the original,younger audience.I took my 10 yr old son to see it, not really aware of the content(read a few reviews beforehand,no mention of extreme violence).The poor little guy was nearly in tears,people exploding,blood & guts flying everywhere,& afterwards,the questions."Why did Optimus kill Megatron after he helped him? Why did all the people die?"etc,etc. I have always used the cartoons as a moral guide for my son,they were something we could enjoy & relate to together.I feel betrayed.
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Transformers Podcast: Twincast / Podcast #96 - Age of Extinction
Twincast / Podcast #96:
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