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Returning to the initial inquiry...


...as a guy who's first real experience with G1 was the 1986 movie, my impression of Megatron was to be immediately impressed when he killed two named Autobots at the very beginning of the movie, and didn't feel he had diminished any from losing his battle with Optimus Prime, considering Prime was also mortally wounded. This all gelled well with what I'd heard about G1 Megatron from the Beast Wars cartoon, where THAT Megatron spoke nothing but effusive praise for his namesake, and whose 30 second cameo inspired his former follower Ravage to immediately switch sides. Beast Wars presented the G1 characters as legendary, and my first impression of both Optimus Prime and Megatron was that they lived up to the hype.

Re-entering the fandom nearly 12 years later, I still tend to feel G1 Megatron is imposing, even if I feel his character arc is always a bit limited. Maybe because I didn't watch any non-Dinobot related episodes of the G1 cartoon as a small child and didn't read the comics until adulthood; my only impression of Megatron was from the animated movie and the secondhand accounts in Beast Wars. Because my exposure was limited, I found his appearances memorable and his villainous threat wholly credible.


Now as to the alt-mode issue... one element of Transformers is right there in the tagline: 'robots in disguise'. I felt both IDW and especially the Dreamwave G1 ongoing series captured this element well, with Megatron in pistol mode providing a surprise attack on Ultra Magnus in MTMTE #16 and Starscream in DW G1 (Vol. 3) #10. In both cases he used the alt mode for a surprise attack on an adversary, catching them completely off guard.

(I did not include his pistol mode appearance in Escalation because he used up enormous energy just to utilize mass displacement and the Autobots immediately figured out it was him anyway. )

yeah, cartoon G1 Megs has probably the highest on-screen kill-count of any main villain from toy advert cartoons. meanwhile in GI Joe getting a cobra chucked at you, and seeing some of it's venom ooze out of your wounds, only results in a temporary coma.

craggy wrote:yeah, cartoon G1 Megs has probably the highest on-screen kill-count of any main villain from toy advert cartoons.

Only because his cartoon had a movie that let characters get killed.

It's kinda unfair for those 1980s/early 1990s toy advert cartoons that didn't get movies of their own.

I mean, let's face it, the 1986 movie was really the only time that the G1 cartoon was allowed to have explicit cases of unambiguous, hostile murder shown onscreen.

Sabrblade wrote:

craggy wrote:yeah, cartoon G1 Megs has probably the highest on-screen kill-count of any main villain from toy advert cartoons.

Only because his cartoon had a movie that let characters get killed.

It's kinda unfair for those 1980s/early 1990s toy advert cartoons that didn't get movies of their own.

I mean, let's face it, the 1986 movie was really the only time that the G1 cartoon was allowed to have explicit cases of unambiguous, hostile murder shown onscreen.

The 1986 movie was also the only time anyone working on the show gave a damn to write a good story. Megatron was a crappy character and leader in the cartoon and by the time they did anything right with him, he changed his name and went crazy.

PrymeStriker wrote:The 1986 movie was also the only time anyone working on the show gave a damn to write a good story. Megatron was a crappy character and leader in the cartoon and by the time they did anything right with him, he changed his name and went crazy.

What other evil leader from the '80s was a better character then and why?

PrymeStriker wrote:The 1986 movie was also the only time anyone working on the show gave a damn to write a good story. Megatron was a crappy character and leader in the cartoon and by the time they did anything right with him, he changed his name and went crazy.

To be fair, the craziness only came after the movie when he got Frank Welker's voice back. Leonard Nimoy's Galvatron in the movie was still sane.

tfparodies wrote:

PrymeStriker wrote:The 1986 movie was also the only time anyone working on the show gave a damn to write a good story. Megatron was a crappy character and leader in the cartoon and by the time they did anything right with him, he changed his name and went crazy.

What other evil leader from the '80s was a better character then and why?

Shockwave - Marvel Comics

Why? His plans were at least remotely successful because he used logic to think his plans through. Every time Megatron went sour, Shockwave took over and made an all around better leader. And he's just menacing and cold enough to be an awesome character.

In terms of character, Pizzaz from Jem was a better character than Megatron. He sucked that much.

PrymeStriker wrote:Shockwave - Marvel Comics

Why? His plans were at least remotely successful because he used logic to think his plans through. Every time Megatron went sour, Shockwave took over and made an all around better leader. And he's just menacing and cold enough to be an awesome character.

In terms of character, Pizzaz from Jem was a better character than Megatron. He sucked that much.

Yes, Shockwave's roll in the comics was pretty awesome, but even he eventually and logically concluded that Megatron was the better choice for leader. I really meant just in cartoons anyway.

I don't know Jem at all, but the reasons aren't there.

The bad guys in cartoons always have to lose. They can have smaller victories in a few episodes, but eventually they always lose. This isn't even a debate really, just a fact. So why people bring up this topic is pretty ridiculous in the first place.

Even so, Megatron had some good ideas at least. Want to talk about "sucking so much?" How about the moronic Optimus Prime being fooled into thinking he lost when Megatron cheated in their duel? It's like, "Oh wow... Megatron suddenly has these powers I never knew about, I guess I'll leave earth then."

How did Megatron suck, exactly?

tfparodies wrote:I don't know Jem at all, but the reasons aren't there.

It's no particular contest with G1 Megatron. Every villain would've been better than him.

The bad guys in cartoons always have to lose. They can have smaller victories in a few episodes, but eventually they always lose. This isn't even a debate really, just a fact. So why people bring up this topic is pretty ridiculous in the first place.

Because G1 was a terrible cartoon in general, when put up to those who have had bigger victories like in Beast Wars and Prime, while they all ultimately lost, they had bigger goals and succeeded over the course of many episodes. G1 Megatron had ridiculous plans that failed at the end of every episode. The only time in the cartoon that his plans were remotely decent was in Megatron's Master Plan (I think its name was), and even that was short lived. No, that's not how you write a story. Make your threats THREATS instead of anticlimactic jokes.

Even so, Megatron had some good ideas at least. Want to talk about "sucking so much?" How about the moronic Optimus Prime being fooled into thinking he lost when Megatron cheated in their duel? It's like, "Oh wow... Megatron suddenly has these powers I never knew about, I guess I'll leave earth then."

Good plan? Sure, if this was an episode of Playskool Gobots...

That whole episode was an awful commercial for the new 1985 toys.

How did Megatron suck, exactly?

Megatron sucked because the writing in that awful show sucked, and his competency as a character and a leader in General suffered because of it. I can't put it more blatant than that.

PrymeStriker wrote:Good plan? Sure, if this was an episode of Playskool Gobots...

That whole episode was an awful commercial for the new 1985 toys.

Yes, we know. Animated show writing got better in the 90's 'till today. Disliking the G1 writing is fine and valid, but to blame it on Megatron, or any one character doesn't make much sense to me. The point of me bringing up that episode is because I hear people like you talking about some of the dumb writing and blaming it one Megatron, but I hardly ever hear that Prime's actions were often just as dumb.

Megatron sucked because the writing in that awful show sucked, and his competency as a character and a leader in General suffered because of it. I can't put it more blatant than that.

So you just are a G1 hater, which is okay I guess even though I can't understand it. These were episodic cartoons. Except for certain multi-part series, yes, each episode began and ended without much bleeding over into the next one. That's how it was. Almost every type of TV show, even prime-time shows, was mostly like that. Except soap-operas I guess. I can't really think of another 80's cartoon that didn't use the same formula, really. He-man always won. The Joes always won, Thundercats always won, etc., etc. To say that each respective bad guy(s) was awful just isn't fair. And since Megatron is arguably the most well-known and lasting villian of the 80's to say he just sucked really doesn't make too much sense to me.

Using Transformers Prime as an example, yes, there may have been storylines that lasted more than one episode, but I can't say that Megatron was really any better than his 80's counterpart. He had a victory at the end of season 2 which was a cliffhanger for the next season (and one that, again, Prime seemed less than greatly intelligent), but that's something that wasn't afforded in the 80's. There are plenty of things wrong with TF Prime's storylines, but I don't blame them on any particular character.

I remember reading a lengthy article by someone (can't remember who or where) years ago detailing how Megatron was a much better leader than Prime was. Instead of saying he sucked because he retreated every episode he made the case that he was a better leader because he kept his army alive and retreated instead of of letting them get slaughtered. I am not saying I agree fully, but that's just another way to look at things.

In short: no, Megatron didn't suck in any way.

tfparodies wrote:

PrymeStriker wrote:Good plan? Sure, if this was an episode of Playskool Gobots...

That whole episode was an awful commercial for the new 1985 toys.

Yes, we know. Animated show writing got better in the 90's 'till today. Disliking the G1 writing is fine and valid, but to blame it on Megatron, or any one character doesn't make much sense to me. The point of me bringing up that episode is because I hear people like you talking about some of the dumb writing and blaming it one Megatron, but I hardly ever hear that Prime's actions were often just as dumb.

Indeed, I'm clearly taking the blame of the writer's faulty effort and placing it on a fictional character.

Virtually everyone and everything in the G1 cartoon was terrible. Megatron is just another example of the writer's abilities to create a pathetic evil leader and give him whimsy plans that ultimately end in the most anticlimactic way possible to reset the status quo every time.

I never said anything about Optimus Prime because that's not the subject of this thread. Optimus Prime wasn't as terrible a leader as Megatron in the cartoon, but he wasn't the best Optimus Prime either.

So you just are a G1 hater, which is okay I guess even though I can't understand it.

I hate the G1 cartoon, yes. It's ranking right next to Energon for me. However, to class me as "just a G1 hater" is kind of ignorant and dismissive, since I have valid reasons to dislike it unlike others that may be considered "haters."

These were episodic cartoons.

An episodic cartoon would indicate that each episode is loosely tied together. G1 reset the status quo after every episode or band of episodes and virtually forgot events until season three. Their stories were episode-centric, and even then they lacked the basic elements of a story.

That's how it was. Almost every type of TV show, even prime-time shows, was mostly like that. Except soap-operas I guess. I can't really think of another 80's cartoon that didn't use the same formula, really. He-man always won. The Joes always won, Thundercats always won, etc., etc.

So, you're reinforcing my point that these kinds of cartoons are mostly to entirely awful, and are usually praised solely from childhood nostalgia

I can't understand this, either. I grew up on Energon and Cybertron, and I am able to look back and say that those shows were terrible.

To say that each respective bad guy(s) was awful just isn't fair.

That's not what I'm saying. You can have a terrible cartoon with a badass villain. Just look at Shockblast from Energon, or Megatron from Animated. I think both of these shows are bad and mediocre respectively, but the writers at least made some great bad guys.

The writers of Generation One didn't even bother to make a convincing threat for an evil leader. The Decepticons as a whole in that show were a bunch of Saturday-morning jokes and Megatron most certainly did not help their case.

And since Megatron is arguably the most well-known and lasting villian of the 80's

Mostly because people today remember those from their childhood rather then them being some sort of incredibly competent leader.

to say he just sucked really doesn't make too much sense to me.

Because something is memorable doesn't mean it's necessarily a good thing.

Using Transformers Prime as an example, yes, there may have been storylines that lasted more than one episode, but I can't say that Megatron was really any better than his 80's counterpart.

Prime Megatron wasn't a very good leader because he couldn't keep his ranks in check, but he was the best developed Megatron by series' end.

He had a victory at the end of season 2 which was a cliffhanger for the next season

He had multiple victories in the series. He successfully got Orion Pax to defect to the Decepticons and retrieve Project Iacon, continued to secure many relics, effectively destroyed the Autobot base as you mentioned and nearly managed to cyberform Earth. Everything lead to fail in the end, but at least their victories lasted a decent amount of time or longer.

(and one that, again, Prime seemed less than greatly intelligent),

How was Optimus to know that the Decepticons were preparing to blow up the whole base? He quickly devised that the Autobots should retreat to other parts of the Earth so that they wouldn't be captured and are more likely to survive. Sounds like some smart thinking considering the time frame he had to make a decision.

but that's something that wasn't afforded in the 80's.

That's not an excuse.

There are plenty of things wrong with TF Prime's storylines,

Other than some dropped concepts, there's virtually nothing wrong with TFP's story. It's that most viewers drop their attention and don't analyze the story enough, in which a show like Prime requires viewer devotion in order to make sense.

but I don't blame them on any particular character.

You can still claim some characters to be bad, like I did with Megatron. Your point is moot.

I remember reading a lengthy article by someone (can't remember who or where) years ago detailing how Megatron was a much better leader than Prime was.

I'm pretty sure that whole article was a joke.

Instead of saying he sucked because he retreated every episode he made the case that he was a better leader because he kept his army alive and retreated instead of of letting them get slaughtered.

What would've prevented him from having to retreat in the first place is calculating plans that would ultimately work. He's fought a war with the Autobots for thousands to millions of years, he should know that the Autobots aren't stupid, yet he constantly underestimates his enemy.

In short: no, Megatron didn't suck in any way.

That's your opinion.

I think he was the worst Megatron in existence.

PrymeStriker wrote:I hate the G1 cartoon, yes. It's ranking right next to Energon for me. However, to class me as "just a G1 hater" is kind of ignorant and dismissive, since I have valid reasons to dislike it unlike others that may be considered "haters."

Sure, you are giving reasons, but so what? I am not even saying your reasoning is wrong. I am, however, saying your reasoning is placed in the proper context.

PrymeStriker wrote:An episodic cartoon would indicate that each episode is loosely tied together. G1 reset the status quo after every episode or band of episodes and virtually forgot events until season three. Their stories were episode-centric, and even then they lacked the basic elements of a story.

They were at least loosely tied together. For example, the constructicons show up towards the end of season one, then they pop up in other episodes after that. Megatron builds a space-bridge early on, it's there later. Some plot points were dropped, of course, but most were still in place from one show to another.

But, again, I am not defending the quality of the show really, I KNOW it was a mess in many respects. I am purely defending what I see as the best bad guy in any kids show I've ever seen.

PrymeStriker wrote:So, you're reinforcing my point that these kinds of cartoons are mostly to entirely awful, and are usually praised solely from childhood nostalgia

"Awful" is too strong. Using hindsight makes it easier to say, but it's not awful. It's like saying "the shark looked fake" in "Jaws". Well, yes, by today's standards those effects might be "awful", at the time they certainly were not. So I wont hate on Jaws just because I can compare it to something that looks amazing today. Again, it wouldn't be fair.

And while nostalgia plays a HUGE part in it, it's not the only thing that matters. What ties us into the Transformers actually is the characters, obviously Megatron is a a giant part of that character base.

PrymeStriker wrote:I can't understand this, either. I grew up on Energon and Cybertron, and I am able to look back and say that those shows were terrible.

I don't know. I've never seen any of them. But there are things from my childhood that I can be nostalgic about and admit they weren't very good as well.

PrymeStriker wrote:The writers of Generation One didn't even bother to make a convincing threat for an evil leader. The Decepticons as a whole in that show were a bunch of Saturday-morning jokes and Megatron most certainly did not help their case.

Yes, often times the decepticons did seem like bumbling fools. But making a convincing threat of a leader? Megatron had a cannon on his arm bigger than the autobot mini's. That certainly looked like a convincing threat. On cybertron, he had the autobots on the run.

And besides Megatron the decepticons also had Starscream and Soundwave and his cassettes, themselves were great villians.

PrymeStriker wrote:Mostly because people today remember those from their childhood rather then them being some sort of incredibly competent leader.

No, it is assuredly more than that.

PrymeStriker wrote:Prime Megatron wasn't a very good leader because he couldn't keep his ranks in check, but he was the best developed Megatron by series' end.

TF Prime was the only other TF series I watched besides G1. I was expecting to NOT like, but I thought it was okay. I was especially expecting to not like Megatron, but I did, though not as much as G1. He was a good character for sure, but I am not so sure he was so greatly developed. Why? Because he actually turn the proverbial leaf at the end? I actually thought that was rather weak and unoriginal. TFP's Megatron was made a fool of almost every step of the way. The more I think about it as I type this the inferior he is to me compared to G1. In TFP, he basically had a countless number of decepticons at his disposal (another thing I couldn't stand about TFP), yet really couldn't accomplish much. He had far more tools than his G1 counterpart did, and while he kept coming close he never quite got there.

Obviously we can debate TF Prime as well, but I'll cut it off now since it really isn't the topic here.

PrymeStriker wrote:

but that's something that wasn't afforded in the 80's.

That's not an excuse.

It is, and it isn't. To say that episodic television of the 80's is different than today is just a fact. You can say you don't like the way they did things back then and that would be fine, but it does give an excuse for some of the reasons you may not like it. Should the writing have been better? Of course. But since the series was nothing more than a vehicle to sell the toys, it's an absolutely amazing feat that it still resonates with so many of us 30 years later. So, yes, they got plenty of things wrong, but what G1 haters refuse to acknowledge is just how many thing they got right!

PrymeStriker wrote:Other than some dropped concepts, there's virtually nothing wrong with TFP's story. It's that most viewers drop their attention and don't analyze the story enough, in which a show like Prime requires viewer devotion in order to make sense.

It actually sounds like you are making an excuse here. There is nothing about TFP that requires anything more than any other series. And again, just to be clear, I don't hate TFP at all. I wound up liking it more than I thought I would going in. There were, however, spots of bad and lazy writing that, again, I wont get into here.

PrymeStriker wrote:You can still claim some characters to be bad, like I did with Megatron. Your point is moot.

Not moot at all. I will keep contending that if Megatron was as awful as you say, Transformers would have failed. I'll even give you that the vast majority of that loyal viewership rested with the love of Optimus Prime, but that's one side of the coin. And, of course, there are plenty of people who thought the decepticons were outright cooler than the autobots.

PrymeStriker wrote:What would've prevented him from having to retreat in the first place is calculating plans that would ultimately work. He's fought a war with the Autobots for thousands to millions of years, he should know that the Autobots aren't stupid, yet he constantly underestimates his enemy.

He built a space bridge. He actually brought Cybertron to earth's orbit. He created an energy creature that zapped the life from the autobots. Again, he cheated his way to victory in that one episode. He constantly found sources of energon. He kept a rag-tag group more or less in line. He did all these things while still having to get his ass kicked almost every episode. He fit the villain role well. When they finally allowed him to really kick ass in the movie, just look at the destruction he wrought in a single battle.

PrymeStriker wrote:That's your opinion.

I think he was the worst Megatron in existence.

Indeed. And if it weren't for him there wouldn't be any other Megatrons that you can say were better. And that's something else G1 haters should at least be able to respect.

tfparodies wrote:"Awful" is too strong. Using hindsight makes it easier to say, but it's not awful. It's like saying "the shark looked fake" in "Jaws". Well, yes, by today's standards those effects might be "awful", at the time they certainly were not. So I wont hate on Jaws just because I can compare it to something that looks amazing today. Again, it wouldn't be fair.

I'm not sure how visual effects relates to storytelling, since the former is ever changing while the basic qualifications for a good story are practically static.

And while nostalgia plays a HUGE part in it, it's not the only thing that matters. What ties us into the Transformers actually is the characters, obviously Megatron is a a giant part of that character base.

Maybe. I relate more to his epic portrayal in the 1986 film than the cartoon. He was a bigger and better threat in the movie, but it was short-lived when season three sprang around.

And besides Megatron the decepticons also had Starscream and Soundwave and his cassettes, themselves were great villians.

Soundwave - Yes
Starscream - No
Rumble - No
Frenzy - No
Ravage - Beast Wars
Laserbeak - lol

TF Prime was the only other TF series I watched besides G1. I was expecting to NOT like, but I thought it was okay. I was especially expecting to not like Megatron, but I did, though not as much as G1. He was a good character for sure, but I am not so sure he was so greatly developed. Why? Because he actually turn the proverbial leaf at the end? I actually thought that was rather weak and unoriginal.

He got a taste of his own medicine and was humbled by it. I literally can't think of any other time Megatron has been developed as a character other than DOTM, which was handled poorly.

In TFP, he basically had a countless number of decepticons at his disposal (another thing I couldn't stand about TFP), yet really couldn't accomplish much. He had far more tools than his G1 counterpart did, and while he kept coming close he never quite got there.

I think Prime and G1 Megatron were awful leaders, but for different reasons. I already mentioned why Megatron was a terrible leader in both iterations.

So, yes, they got plenty of things wrong, but what G1 haters refuse to acknowledge is just how many thing they got right!

Yes, they managed to get parents to burn their wallets buying the numerous number of toys that they dished out. What an amazing feat.

Just because they made some memorable and nostalgic characters and toys doesn't excuse anything. I acknowledge that The Transformers were successful in many regards, but storytelling was their weakest points. And that's what I look for when I'm being brought into some sort of fiction - a decent story.

The movie's the only time they both managed to appeal to their marketing division while still telling a decent story.

Other than some dropped concepts, there's virtually nothing wrong with TFP's story. It's that most viewers drop their attention and don't analyze the story enough, in which a show like Prime requires viewer devotion in order to make sense.

It actually sounds like you are making an excuse here. There is nothing about TFP that requires anything more than any other series. And again, just to be clear, I don't hate TFP at all. I wound up liking it more than I thought I would going in. There were, however, spots of bad and lazy writing that, again, I wont get into here.

There were, but you can literally count them on one hand. Any more I could and have successfully detested and explained.

And I'm not making any excuses. Prime is a show that requires a lot of devotion to make sense, and forces you to think and dissect plotlines through like a good story should. I unfortunately haven't found another show in Transformers like that. Not even Beast Wars.

Sorry, I keep trailing off topic.

Not moot at all. I will keep contending that if Megatron was as awful as you say, Transformers would have failed.

Not particularly. There wasn't much contest for The Transformers to go up against in the 80's, as you have mentioned.

I'll even give you that the vast majority of that loyal viewership rested with the love of Optimus Prime, but that's one side of the coin. And, of course, there are plenty of people who thought the decepticons were outright cooler than the autobots.

He built a space bridge.

An achievement rather than a victory.

He actually brought Cybertron to earth's orbit.

In which was foiled after the three-parter.

He created an energy creature that zapped the life from the autobots.

Oh, right. Kremzeek existed.

Again, he cheated his way to victory in that one episode.

Heavy Metal War.

Didn't last long, and Optimus was an idiot.

He did all these things while still having to get his ass kicked almost every episode.

That's my problem with him.

When they finally allowed him to really kick ass in the movie, just look at the destruction he wrought in a single battle.

The '86 movie was awesome. Totally different from the cartoon. Probably the best move Megatron made as a leader. He was even successful in scrapping some of Prime's crew at the time, including the Autobot leader himself! They definitely put effort into that movie, and it shows.

Indeed. And if it weren't for him there wouldn't be any other Megatrons that you can say were better. And that's something else G1 haters should at least be able to respect.

Had there had been no other incarnations, there wouldn't be a contest. But there are, and therefore there is. Also, there's the argument and fact that Megatron got his "lovable" personality and name from Bob Budiansky when he was writing the comics, making the G1 cartoon in dept to the comics just like any incarnation of Megatron today would supposedly be in dept to the cartoon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99h1Tcb2wWU

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99h1Tcb2wWU

They put both leaders at the top of the list. Seems kind of generic.

Plus, #7 was Grimlock. How dare they!

PrymeStriker wrote:Plus, #7 was Grimlock. How dare they!

those bastards

and I didnt want to get involved in over all debate, but.,

PrymeStriker wrote:Just because they made some memorable and nostalgic characters and toys doesn't excuse anything. I acknowledge that The Transformers were successful in many regards, but storytelling was their weakest points.

you cant create memorable and nostalgic characters with out some ,at least ,basic decent writing.Even if it was writing that catered to a time and a particular market.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:you cant create memorable and nostalgic characters with out some ,at least ,basic decent writing.Even if it was writing that catered to a time and a particular market.

I remember a lot of characters from Transformers Energon, some that I think are pretty cool, and get nostalgic seeing them in action. Energon doesn't have decent writing.

Same goes for Cybertron characters, though their writing was a bit better.

PrymeStriker wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:you cant create memorable and nostalgic characters with out some ,at least ,basic decent writing.Even if it was writing that catered to a time and a particular market.

I remember a lot of characters from Transformers Energon, some that I think are pretty cool, and get nostalgic seeing them in action. Energon doesn't have decent writing.

Same goes for Cybertron characters, though their writing was a bit better.

the definition of "memorable" doesnt mean that you or any individual remembers 1 or more characters, at least not in the context of this conversation.

and btw, Are you remembering the "characterization" fondly or the "look" of the characters?

bottom line, you cant have memorable characterization with out some decent writing.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

PrymeStriker wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:you cant create memorable and nostalgic characters with out some ,at least ,basic decent writing.Even if it was writing that catered to a time and a particular market.

I remember a lot of characters from Transformers Energon, some that I think are pretty cool, and get nostalgic seeing them in action. Energon doesn't have decent writing.

Same goes for Cybertron characters, though their writing was a bit better.

the definition of "memorable" doesnt mean that you or any individual remembers 1 or more characters, at least not in the context of this conversation.

and btw, Are you remembering the "characterization" fondly or the "look" of the characters?

bottom line, you cant have memorable characterization with out some decent writing.

Whether something is memorable or not is a matter of individual perspective.

I'm remembering the characterization - Ironhide, Shockblast, Alpha Q

PrymeStriker wrote:Whether something is memorable or not is a matter of individual perspective.

actually it can be...............depending on the context of the conversation being had.

But I agree its not in regards to this debate.

I'm remembering the characterization - Ironhide, Shockblast, Alpha Q

and those were the few that even I would say were "better" written in that series.

but I wouldnt call their characters "memorable".

PrymeStriker wrote:The '86 movie was awesome. Totally different from the cartoon. Probably the best move Megatron made as a leader. He was even successful in scrapping some of Prime's crew at the time, including the Autobot leader himself! They definitely put effort into that movie, and it shows.

Without starting the whole debate over again I just want to say this: if you admit that Megatron lived up to his potential in the movie, then your original thesis and many arguments afterwards of how much Megatron sucks as a character can't be true. As you stated multiple times, your major problem is the writing of the G1 show, it's not with the character of Megatron himself.

tfparodies wrote:

PrymeStriker wrote:The '86 movie was awesome. Totally different from the cartoon. Probably the best move Megatron made as a leader. He was even successful in scrapping some of Prime's crew at the time, including the Autobot leader himself! They definitely put effort into that movie, and it shows.

Without starting the whole debate over again I just want to say this: if you admit that Megatron lived up to his potential in the movie, then your original thesis and many arguments afterwards of how much Megatron sucks as a character can't be true. As you stated multiple times, your major problem is the writing of the G1 show, it's not with the character of Megatron himself.

My original thesis praised the movie and insulted the cartoon's portrayal of him.

When Megatron was a bad character and leader 99% of the time, that 1% in which he was done right is insignificant.