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Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective

Transformers News: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective

Tuesday, June 28th, 2011 7:08AM CDT

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Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective


Dark Side of the Moon

I saw Transformers Dark of the Moon tonight. I am not a professional reviewer. In fact, I strongly dislike writing reviews of any sort. Yet from time-to-time I am strongly inclined to share my thoughts in hopes that some of you might want to hear what the owner of one of the largest Transformers fansites has to say. So without further ado, here's what I've been writing for the past 5 hours.

First and foremost, if you don't want to read any spoilers, just stop reading this review. I don't hold back anything in my reviews. It's all here that I was able to jot down since midnight. If you want to be spoiled, please be my guest and read on ...



I'll cut to the chase right off the bat before I go into comments that only us Seibertronians will enjoy reading. If you're looking for the next Academy Award winner or Oscar winner for best picture, go see something else so we don't have to hear you complain about Transformers Dark of the Moon. If you are just looking for a great, fun summer blockbuster with TONS of action, lots of special effects, a pretty girl, some very cool cars (and robots too), and destruction galore -- you should, without a doubt, see this film. If you're a Transformers fan, then this is 100% required watching in my book.

Is this the best film in the world? No. Is it another very enjoyable summer blockbuster? Of course it is. Are there some problems with the storytelling? Yep. But hey … it's Transformers, it's not Revenge of the Fallen, and it was a fun couple of hours watching exciting craziness unfold before my very 3d weary eyes. While Transformers Dark of the Moon didn't surpass the first Transformers film from Michael Bay, it was better than Revenge of the Fallen. However, it shared some of the same flaws from which the previous movie suffered.



As I have said for the past four or five years, I think Michael Bay was the perfect person to be the director of the first Transformers live action film franchise. I liked some of his previous movies such as Bad Boys and Armageddon. Michael Bay is well known for delivering what he promises. He makes larger than life fun movies that appeal to a very large audience. I truly believe that it was his vision that helped introduce our beloved Transformers to people not as passionate about them as are we. The Transformers are a toy line that have overcome many obstacles over the years and have reached the point of becoming a household name and a billion dollar film franchise.

The special effects were absolutely truly amazing. I hope nothing I say in this fanboy "review" plays down the fact that this movie is an amazing feat of technology. The destruction of Chicago is an incredible technological achievement. It looked like they destroyed the city. And it wasn't far away or brief shots like Battle: Los Angeles. It was complex digitally animated (?) extremely detailed and extremely believable mass destruction bestowed upon the city I've called home for the past 9 years. It was truly amazing to see what they did to this city. The Transformers themselves seemed to be more detailed, but in a good way. I didn't have much difficulty telling who was who, even when they were fighting. There even seemed to be some improvements to the facial expressions on some of the robots. There was a moment with Optimus Prime's face that I remember seeing that I thought, hey that's cool that they got him to make that face, and the same with Ratchet in another scene. Academy Award winning movie or not, I think the special effects teams on this movie should get all sorts of awards. Kudos to all of the people who worked on special effects for this film.

If you wish to read the rest of my thoughts, simply highlight all of the text below by using your mouse, touchpad or by clicking "ctrl" + "a" on your keyboard to highlight all of the text.


Houston, we have a problem

A lot of the problems I had with this film was the fact that there was just too much going on. You shouldn't have to read the novel adaptation to understand what exactly was happening during the film. I think the overall story was good. It just needed to be tightened up, and some time that was given to other scenes could have been used to develop some of the characters.



Speaking of characterization, the Transformers continue to serve more as plot devices than actual characters that you know and love. There are few scenes which show the Transformers interacting on their own without humans and many of them get little character development. I love the Transformers characters, I've grown up with them, but without the bond that I have with these characters through three decades of reading the comics, watching the cartoons, and collecting the toys, I don't understand how the general movie going audience is supposed to have a bond with these characters (aside from Optimus Prime and maybe Bumblebee). It is my hope that now that the general world wide audience has been well introduced to the concept of the Transformers brand, that we can movie into a film franchise where the story can be told more from the Transformers' perspective(s) and less from the humans'.

The Chernobyl scene seemed like the they went through a lot of trouble for us, and the Autobots, to find out that the humans had a piece, or pieces, from the Ark on the moon. I get that they were trying to show us that the Russians had tried to harness the power, which caused the 1986 Chernobyl disaster, but it just came across as really forced to me and a very unnecessary scene.



Human Characters and Actors

Overall, the acting was pretty good. I don't recall thinking that anyone had any overly cheesy lines, or poor acting. The only one that really stood out to me was John Duhamel's Lennox. I wasn't a big fan of him in ROTF and I had much the same feeling about him in DOTM. It might have nothing to do with his character and is just how the writers are depicting him. I liked him in the first movie, and I've liked him in other movies that I've seen him in. Tyrese Gibson's Epps was better portrayed in DOTM than ROTF. Shia was much the same … I liked him in all three movies. I think he's a good actor. As much as I love John Turturro's "Agent" Simmons, I just felt his involvement was either too forced or unnecessary. I felt like he didn't really bring anything to the story. Yeah, he wrote a book, yeah, Bill O'Reilly interviewing Simmons because of his new book was entertaining, but not needed. If you felt his involvement was forced in ROTF, you'll definitely feel that way here.

The ever so beautiful Rosie Huntington-Whitely filled her role, and her tight dresses, perfectly. The Transformers film franchise triumphantly shows the world that all you need is some pretty t-and-a to play the out-of-his-league love interest for Sam Witwicky which could've continued to have been played by Megan Fox had she been able to keep her mouth shut. As a fan, I was happy to have Rosie onboard as Carly, who was the love interest of Spike Witwicky in the original 1980s animated cartoon series. I could've done without the gratuitous underwear/butt shot as she was walking up the stairs. Nice to look at in a men's magazine, just 100% unnecessary in a Transformers flick especially in the first ten minutes or so (though I'm sure many would argue that it's the same demographic).

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I was both surprised and disappointed at how small John Malkovich's "Bruce Brazos" role was. His eccentric character went unused through the second half of the film. I thought that he and Patrick Dempsey were miscast and should have had the other's role. Malkovich could've played a perfect live action Dr. Arkeville, which would have been a very nice nod to the Transformers mythos. He even looked the part in my book. It would've even fit in perfectly with the whole "humans working for the Decepticons" plot. Patrick Dempsey's "Dylan Gould" was quite the villain surprisingly. Dempsey was definitely "McBadAss" in this film, and not so "McDreamy".

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While I always enjoy the onscreen presence of Sam's parents (played by Kevin Dunn and Julie White), I felt the inclusion of Ron and Judy Witwicky was completely unnecessary for the story. Their roles were merely there for the comedic inconvenience and embarrassment that they cause their son.

Pleasant surprise "cameos": real-life Buzz Aldrin, Nixon, JFK, President Obama, and Fox News' Bill O'Reilly.



Toned Down Humor – Smaller Funny Bits

The sexual humor that many found offensive in the previous two films was significantly reduced in this movie. No more lubricating jokes, no more masturbation jokes, no more boxer jokes, no dog humping, no robot humping, no racially degrading comments. There was an oral sex innuendo from Carly to Sam, and a comment from Sam's mom about him being well-endowed, and a brief comment from Brains about Carly's panties or underwear drawer or something, but all of those comments were fairly brief and didn't seem to distract from what else was happening in the scene.

There were no words like "pussy" or "bitch" in this movie, which made me feel a little squeamish in ROTF. Either Wheelie or Brains says "dickhead" if I recall correctly, but it seemed rather appropriate.

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The Sound of Music and the Music of Sound

Steve Jablonsky's music score for DOTM continued to please me. Nothing struck me as out-of-place, but at the same time nothing caught my attention emotionally like "The Arrival" from the first film's score. I was glad the "corny" music from the first and second film (cue the music from when Sam arrived at the lake in the first movie) was absent from the third. I'm looking forward to purchasing Jablonsky's score when it becomes available on CD. Linkin Park's "Iridescent" was present in the film if I recall correctly, and I think the Goo Goo Dolls "All That You Are" is as well.



The sound quality of the film seemed great. I don't recall my ears hurting nor do I feel like I was ever having difficulty understanding anything. I don't recall a G1 transformation sound, hopefully someone catches one and can point it out. No complaints here from me about the audio.



Cartoon References or Coincidence

Several elements of Dark of the Moon reminded me of the fan-favorite three part cartoon "The Ultimate Doom". In that story, the Decepticons enslave mind-controlled humans and bring Cybertron into Earth's orbit via a space bridge. In Dark of the Moon, fearful or deceived humans are working for the Decepticons who want to bring Cybertron to Earth in order to use our planet's resources to repower their homeplanet. Very similar concepts.



One other similar concept that seemed pulled from the cartoons, was the Autobots' exile from Earth. While this scene seemed huge, and the Autobot shuttle looked magnificent, I couldn't help but feel that Megatron's Master Plan pulled this exile concept off better somehow … or at least with more emotional attachment. The whole scene should've felt more powerful in my opinion.



Transformers Characters

My personal favorite character, Soundwave, is still Frank Welker's Dr Claw voice minus the voice processing we all know and love from the original cartoon. Soundwave was one of Megatron's right hand "bots", standing by his side during what will be a very memorable on screen moment that had all three big time Decepticons in the same scene standing side-by-side (Megatron, Starscream, and Soundwave). While I was initially disappointed to hear that he transformed into a Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG in DOTM, his role as Decepticon spy was served just as well by going undercover posing as Carly's car, which her Decepticon loving boss gave her as a "gift". His robot mode looked awesome and he has an awesome moment battling the Autobots before he gets slagged.

Laserbeak speaks, to which I feel indifferent about it. I kept having moments of nostalgia from the Japanese version of the original Transformers cartoons when Laserbeak and Ravage would speak. He's a cool little character that really kicks some butt in this film (albeit mostly humans, more about that later). He transforms into a multitude of objects in the movie. It'd be neat to see Hasbro come up with some other toy versions of Laserbeak. He even transformed into a small human sized red Bumblebee-looking robot to pose as a playmate to a daughter of one of his victims. There was an awesome nostalgic moment when Laserbeak rested/landed upon Soundwave's right arm. While he doesn't look exactly like the Laserbeak of old, I think this is a great representation of this character in live action form.

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Mirage was named Dino (pronounced "dee-no"), who looked very awesome. I mean, what Transformers fan doesn't love having an Autobot that transforms into a sexy, red Ferrari 458 Italia? Sucked seeing him share onscreen time with Sideswipe, who's basically the same character, when a red sports car should have been Sideswipe all along.

Wheeljack was named Q (Cue? Que?), who was a very disappointing addition to the Autobot roster. It wasn't so much the characterization (or lack thereof; who's onscreen role could've easily been given to the Autobot weapons specialist Ironhide), but the head design basically looked like a robotic skull with Albert Einstein's facial features and hair. I'm assuming they were trying to convey that this is an Autobot scientist or a really smart Transformer, but I'd like to think that most of the movie going audience is above having things shoved in their faces like that. The original Wheeljack has such a unique head design that it was a shame to not see that translate to the big screen. If you didn't like him either, don't worry, Soundwave executes him later in the film during a rather tense moment when it seems like all is lost to the Autobots.

For as big of a deal as it seems everyone has made about the Autobot subgroup known as the "Wreckers" (Leadfoot, Roadbuster, and Topspin), they really had minor roles for the most part. They were part of the crew working alongside the humans on the Autobots ship which they were exiled in, and the other major part they had was going with Bumblebee into the city when they ripped apart a Decepticon pilot who had crashed, and saving Optimus Prime when he got tangled in some wires after battling the Driller that was attacking the falling skyscraper Sam and the other humans were trapped in. I didn't think I'd like how Leadfoot looked onscreen, but he was easily one of my favorite product placements in the film. While I couldn't pinpoint any connection with the Wreckers voices, I can assure all of you that they did NOT have redneck voices which was a huge relief to me.

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Ratchet was in it considerably more than ROTF, however he still had few lines. Same voice actor as far as I could tell from the first film. He also seemed to have a modified face, but I'd have to get another look at it. He was with Optimus when they went to the Ark.

Sideswipe had at least one line, perhaps more. I felt like his onscreen time was replaced with that of Mirage Dino.

Sentinel Prime, voiced by Star Trek's Leonary Nimoy (who also voice Galvatron in the 1986 animated Transformers film), was one of the few Transformers to receive some characterization. His character underwent a harsh transformation from being Optimus Prime's predecessor and hero to being one of the major antagonists in the film. His ideals seemed to align more with that of Megatron and his Decepticons than with the heroic Autobots. He seemed far more concerned with saving the Cybertronian race and planet, which seems like all movie Megatron has wanted. There was no foreshadowing of Sentinel's betrayal. After bringing Sentinel back online, there was a nice moment where Optimus tried to give the Matrix to Sentinel, but oddly Sentinel declined. It seems like if he was inevitably going to betray the Autobots, that he should have taken the Matrix. His death at the end of the movie was very fitting, though I think it sucked seeing the heroic Optimus Prime killing his Autobot mentor.

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Sentinel's betrayal wasn't the moment that I wasn't expecting. It was how Sentinel viciously attacked the Autobots, and killed Ironhide! I didn't see that coming. I hadn't even heard any rumors of that happening. It was the only moment during the film that I was shocked at. I was especially shocked since Hasbro has heavily promoted Ironhide by having at least five toys of this character available at retail by the release date of the film.

Still no voice for Bumblebee! If you're wondering why he's holding his hands up to his head in the trailer, it's not because the sound is too loud … it's because his holding his hands up before he's almost executed by Soundwave and the Decepticons. Very tense, cool scene.

Shockwave's character was a waste to me. He looked awesome. He looked evil. But without even a full line (he said something at the Chernobyl scene but I think it was just "Optimus Prime" or something very basic), there was zero characterization. He could've just been another drone for all we know, well, a drone leading other drones. I was hoping for just a couple of lines to Megatron about something being logical or illogical, something that says that this is the character we've known and loved over the past 27 years. He was killed during the Chicago battle.

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I wasn't sure what to make of Starscream in this film. His character had been reduced to the worst traits of Starscream. Cowardly, whiny (?). He had two moments in the film that should have been more monumental and awe-inspiring … when he single handedly takes out the exiled Autobots' shuttle and when he takes on the sky divers by the Willis tower in the skies over Chicago. One of my favorite scenes in the Transformers film franchise is in the first movie during the final battle when Starscream takes on the other F-22 Raptors going back and forth between his robot mode and jet mode. That scene is one of the best uses of their ability to transform in the film. I was waiting for that "wow, that's so cool" moment to hit me with either of those scenes but that moment never happened.

The rumors about the cowardly villain Starscream meeting his maker were unfortunately true. Thankfully, he didn't get taken down singlehandedly by one of Epps buddies, which was the rumor we heard last summer. Disappointingly, he was taken down by Sam, who used a grappling hook device given to him by Q. Sam used the weapon to attach the hook to one of Starscream's eyes, which damages it. Starscream is ranting about his eyes and not being able to see. All I kept thinking during this scene is … can't Transformers "see" without their eyes. Seriously … how else would they "see" when they're in their vehicle modes if they didn't have alternative methods to see? If Starscream had just transformed into jet mode, would he have been able to "see" again? Starscream deserves a much better death scene than this. Fortunately, we have his far superior death courtesy of Galvatron in the 1986 film.

Ever wonder what happened to my favorite police car Decepticon Barricade? He went M.I.A., literally, during the final quarter of the first film, was M.I.A. for the entirety of ROTF, but finally makes a miraculous return during the Chicago battle scene. I was very happy to see him return. If I saw correctly, it looks like he received an update or two to his character model. It'd be nice to see some comparison shots of this. My happiness at Barricade's return lasted only momentarily as he was destroyed shortly thereafter.

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Skids and Mudflap were indeed missing from the film. I didn't even see them as additional robots during the scene where the Autobots were exiled from Earth. I didn't miss them though I do think they would have served as great cannon fodder.

Optimus Prime gets the movie version of his battle axe that reminded me of the axe he had during the Hoover dam battle against Megatron in a G1 "More Than Meets The Eye" cartoon episode.

Megatron says something to the affect of "what would you be without me" to which Optimus replies "Let's find out." and he proceeds to kill Megatron.



Random Scenes and Thoughts

The scene on the highway en route to Chicago turned out very cool. You might remember this as the scene where the infamous accident happened last summer in Hammond, Indiana that left Gabriela Cedillo, an extra in the film, permanently brain damaged and paralyzed. I meant to see if there was any mention of her in the credits, I'll have to look again tomorrow night. The "Dreads" were a very cool group of Decepticons. I really like their overall look, which is odd because I'm not a big fan of dreadlocks. Their unified and unique look just really stands out to me. I wasn't sure what to make of their "Mexican stand-off" with Ironhide and Sideswipe, but they seemed pretty cool in my book.

I felt confused as to why the Decepticons space bridged to Washington, D.C. then proceed to travel to invade Chicago. Why not either space bridge directly to Chicago or invade D.C. instead? The D.C. scene did give us a nice moment at the Lincoln Memorial where Megatron blows off President Lincoln's head, and the proceeds to remove Lincoln's statue so that Megatron could sit in his chair. One of the Decepticons scans a WM garbage truck after arriving in DC (I want this Transformer!).

Lots of humans get killed in this film. The Decepticons have a weapon that just kind of vaporizes a human after it blasts apart. In one scene, we see a human skull roll toward someone's foot after they were killed. Pretty graphic and intense. Not something I'd recommend for the kiddies to see.

I felt very uncomfortable when the Wreckers tore apart a Decepticon pilot. I just kept thinking "Autobots wouldn't do that!" Kind of reminded me of some of the Abu Ghraib situation a few years back.

The Autobot ship did indeed look awesome. Massive. They missed the opportunity to call the ship something like "Omega Supreme", maybe Hasbro will give us an Omega Supreme toy out of it just yet, but I wouldn't count on it. Someone in the film mentions that there are 9 Autobots, but I can't 11 if you count Wheelie and Brains (Optimus Prime, Bumblebee, Ratchet, Sideswipe, Topspin, Roadbuster, Leadfoot, Dino, and Que) who were aboard the ship if I recall correctly. The shuttle scene was a good scene, it just seemed to lack the emotion that such an important scene should have … especially when Starscream takes out the ship after it launches and apparently kills all of the Autobots aboard.

The whole Cybertron coming to Earth plot seemed a little much to me for the general movie going audience to understand. Without showing the full planet of Cybertron in DOTM, it seemed like it was a lot to ask people to understand that "Cybertron", the Transformers planet which much of the audience has never seen before, was being transported to our orbit. As a fan, I had a very difficult time seeing the large object that was coming through the space bridge portal as Cybertron. It seemed so unmonumental and so unnecessary to a Decepticon invasion of Earth that I felt distracted by that entire plot element (though it's what united Sentinel with Megatron). In addition, I couldn't tell what Cybertron's fate was. It looked as if Cybertron had imploded upon itself when the space bridge was destroyed yet without any dialogue in the film or concern from any of the Transformers, it's fate was left uncertain to me.

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After seeing more of the same storytelling problems from ROTF creep into DOTM, I can't help but feel that it's time for Michael Bay, Shia, and the rest of the crew to move onto other projects and make way for some new, fresh ideas to brought into the life of the Transformers films. I'd like to see what someone else can do with the Transformers now that they have proven that it's a successful toy-to-film franchise. I'd also like to see what other types of films Michael Bay wants to make as I can't believe that he would want to be best known for making the Transformers films. I think the movies are very entertaining films for what they are. No one claimed these would, or should, be Oscar award winning movies. The people who have worked on these films have done an amazing job, considering the source material started out as a toy line so many years ago.

No need to stay until the very end of the credits.



Honorable 3D Mention

Why no mention from me about 3D yet? To be blunt: I'm not a fan of 3D. Not at all. I see it for what it is … a ploy to give people something special at the theater that they can't get elsewhere and to make it more difficult for the bootleg "market". I'm looking forward to seeing DOTM in good ol' fashioned 2D. When I watch a 3D movie, I feel like I'm staring at those posters that doctor offices had back in the early 90s where you have to cross your eyes to see the hidden image in the picture. I also can't stand wearing glasses in the theater. It's just not my thing. Did this movie seem like a technical achievement in the 3D field? I can't judge that as I haven't seen any other movie in 3D except for James Cameron's Avatar.

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3D doesn't make me feel like I'm part of the movie at all, if anything, it makes me feel disjointed from the film because of how many times I notice the "3D" layers. It's extremely distracting and I don't recall ever thinking when viewing a 2D movie that I wished it had been in 3D. I keep thinking of that Best Buy "buy back" commercial where the girl is calling the guy a "silly head" because he bought a 3D TV instead of a 4D TV. I'm hoping 4D gets here soon because I can't stand this very "forced" 3D craze.

I hope someone important in the movie industry read my thoughts about 3D.


Meet The Press

I wanted to take a moment to personally thank Paramount for hooking me up with a Press pass for tonight's show at the AMC River East in downtown Chicago. I had the pleasure of meeting famed movie critic Roger Ebert this evening, who sat directly behind my wife at tonight's showing. It was a great experience and quite an honor. It was also a very fitting moment since Roger Ebert had mentioned Seibertron.com in his explanation about his review of Revenge of the Fallen.

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On a personal note, I think I'd prefer seeing a movie like DOTM with a regular audience any day. The press guys didn't laugh or gasp or anything during the movie. Either they thought DOTM sucked or they were all way too busy writing down notes on their pads of paper. To me, a big part of going opening night for a movie, or even some time during the opening week, is to catch the buzz that radiates through a movie theater that is excited about a film. I think it's unfortunate that the press people didn't get to experience this movie with the regular movie going audience. I'm looking forward to seeing DOTM on Tuesday night with family and friends and people from Seibertron.com who I know will be geeked and excited about seeing this film ... and are there to have fun and have a great time.


Wrap-Up

So you might be wondering exactly what I thought of this movie and what my recommendations are. I know I picked apart a lot of the movie above. I'm very, very passionate about Transformers. I'm also very protective of how we, the fans, see our Transformers. I just want our experience to be shared by everyone else. I want people to know why we like and love these Transformers characters. I gave it a 4 out of 5 on my Netflix account just now. If it wasn't a Transformers flick, I'd give it a 3 out of 5 mainly due to feeling that the story was confusing at times or incoherent. The special effects and technical achievements in this film were simply amazing … stunning even! They should win awards left and right for what pulled off with Chicago and for making huge leaps with the computer animation for the robots which continue to look better and better.

As I said at the beginning of this review, if you're a Transformers fan, you've got to go see this film so that you can tell the rest of us what you think about it. Don't base whether or not you see this movie based on my review. It's a fun movie. Go see it. You be the judge and tell us what you think after you see it.
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Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248469)
Posted by Autobot032 on June 28th, 2011 @ 7:13am CDT
I'm incredibly disappointed. I'm going to go see it, but my expectations have been lowered.
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248473)
Posted by Bleak5170 on June 28th, 2011 @ 7:21am CDT
Seibertron wrote:
Bleak5170 wrote:Thanks for the huge write-up. It's very appreciated. Normally I avoid spoilers like the plague but I've accidentally heard so many I just stopped caring. I was really hoping Ironhide's fate in the novel did not come to pass in the movie. :(

Can you tell me if Ratchet is in the movie more than he was ROTF, (where he had like 4 lines and a few sparse appearances)? I noticed he wasn't mentioned at all in your section on the TF characters so that doesn't bode well.


Ratchet was in it considerably more than ROTF, however he still had few lines. Same voice actor as far as I could tell from the first film. He also seemed to have a modified face, but I'd have to get another look at it. He was with Optimus when they went to the Ark.


Sweet. Thanks for answering. I don't mind if he doesn't speak a lot - at least he's there. I'm curious to see his modified face. I always thought he had the most indistinguishable face of all the TFs in the movies. The others were more a lot more anthropomorphic than his.
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248478)
Posted by Seibertron on June 28th, 2011 @ 7:27am CDT
So much more to say ... I'll have to update this review some more tomorrow. I've been working on it for 7.5 hours and I'm beat. Got to go to bed for a few hours before my daughter wakes us up.
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248482)
Posted by Cheesinator on June 28th, 2011 @ 7:36am CDT
Oh man, Megatron dies at the end? That really sucks. I absolutely loved the arc his character had in the book, but I'm guessing that's completely out the window in the movie.

In fact, aside from that and Sentinel's betrayal, doesn't the entire story boil down to 'Decepticons attack but Optimus brutally murders all of them'...again?
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248485)
Posted by Autobot032 on June 28th, 2011 @ 7:39am CDT
Cheesinator wrote:Oh man, Megatron dies at the end? That really sucks. I absolutely loved the arc his character had in the book, but I'm guessing that's completely out the window in the movie.

In fact, aside from that and Sentinel's betrayal, doesn't the entire story boil down to 'Decepticons attack but Optimus brutally murders all of them'...again?


Now? It does. *shakes head*
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248492)
Posted by cybercat on June 28th, 2011 @ 7:46am CDT
First, thanks for sharing your thoughts with us. I've actually been torn about seeing this movie since I heard some of the spoilers from IDW (the two major canon character deaths you mentioned) and, well, ROTF. It's great to have a FAN review, rather than some outsider--though those are valid, too--which goes into such depth.

I can say that Mudflap and Skids show up briefly in the movie adaptation comics (which I have been reading and are everything you complain about narrative-wise as well),and they are executed by Sentinel right after Ironhide.

I'm of course distressed to hear about my dorito's untimely demise. Then again, I'd more or less expected it the last two movies. :)

I can't say I"m surprised by the 'fanservice' upskirt of Carly, but then again, Bay's idea of what's appropriate for family viewing is a bit...off (testicle jokes, anyone?) As they said about him in the HOF video, he knows what the male audience wants to see.

Unfortunately, I am not male.

I'm most distressed, of course, that it's more about the people than the 'bots. I had this response to the comics as well--WHO ARE ALL THESE PEOPLE (is there a throwaway racefail character named Wang in the film?) and why am I seeing so many of THEM and so few ROBOTS?!?! Again, as Bay himself said, he hated the franchise until he took it and changed it. He changed it mostly by making it NOT about the canon characters we love, but about these dippy humans.


ANYWAY, thanks for a great review. You haven't tipped the balance of whether I see it this week or not, but expectations? SUITABLY LOWERED.

HK, My eye candy is robots
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248496)
Posted by Counterpunch on June 28th, 2011 @ 7:49am CDT
Cheesinator wrote:In fact, aside from that and Sentinel's betrayal, doesn't the entire story boil down to 'Decepticons attack but Optimus brutally murders all of them'...again?


You can't "murder" active combatants in a war of extinction.
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248498)
Posted by cybercat on June 28th, 2011 @ 7:54am CDT
I think chees's point was that Optimus's ethics are a bit...darker than previous incarnations of Autobots? I remember being more than a little dismayed in ROTF when Bumblebee skinned Ravage and that whole 'gimme ur fais' meme. In my Geewunner head? AUTOBOTS DON"T DO THAT. They fight, but they're not brutal thugs.

If they are, do they deserve to win?

HK, not had tea yet, and philosophizin'.
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248503)
Posted by starscreamreturns on June 28th, 2011 @ 8:02am CDT
So i'm still sad about starscreams death :-(
Everything else i like that he said,it would be better if shockwave did more i guess.
But i cant wait for this i'm excited!
also i have an idea for a 4th depending on how this one ends. And even if shias gone i think with some cooperation he'd make a small appearence because my idea barely includes sam.
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248504)
Posted by Cheesinator on June 28th, 2011 @ 8:08am CDT
hellkitty wrote:I think chees's point was that Optimus's ethics are a bit...darker than previous incarnations of Autobots? I remember being more than a little dismayed in ROTF when Bumblebee skinned Ravage and that whole 'gimme ur fais' meme. In my Geewunner head? AUTOBOTS DON"T DO THAT. They fight, but they're not brutal thugs.

If they are, do they deserve to win?

HK, not had tea yet, and philosophizin'.


Yeah, this^. Prime is a bit of a psycho in these movies ("We'll kill them all!" "Give me your face!" being lovely examples). The entire plot of ROTF was that Prime can and will kill everything that opposes him, with even death being a temporary setback.

I'm actually a huge fan of the Bayverse movies, but I definitely prefer pretty much every other incarnation of Prime. I thought he was supposed to be a wise, good leader who always sought peace and valued life and freedom above all else. If Megatron is portrayed in DOTM like he is in the novel (ie, severely weakened and tired of the war), I really don't see how Prime can justifiably kill him in cold blood. Uh, oil.
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248508)
Posted by Autobot Scum on June 28th, 2011 @ 8:13am CDT
Nice write up, seibs. I got to meet Siskel and Ebert when 5th element came out... or at least have ebert turn around and ask me to shut up.

I have no comment on the content of the film itself.. Not yet, anyway.
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248509)
Posted by vegetacron on June 28th, 2011 @ 8:14am CDT
Autobot032 wrote:I'm incredibly disappointed. I'm going to go see it, but my expectations have been lowered.



Yeah...Same here.
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248510)
Posted by Bleak5170 on June 28th, 2011 @ 8:19am CDT
hellkitty wrote:
I can't say I"m surprised by the 'fanservice' upskirt of Carly, but then again, Bay's idea of what's appropriate for family viewing is a bit...off (testicle jokes, anyone?) As they said about him in the HOF video, he knows what the male audience wants to see.

Unfortunately, I am not male.



I like Bay's movies but he's kind of an idiot. I'm male and I don't want to see either of those. Maybe if I was like 12 I would find giant testicles on a robot funny, (or perhaps not really), and I don't watch a movie like this for up-skirt shots.
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248518)
Posted by Tekka on June 28th, 2011 @ 8:35am CDT
Cheesinator wrote:"We'll kill them all!"

It's lines like this and the total departure from the virtuous Optimus Prime chariacture that I know, is what ensures that this character will never find a place among my fond memories. There is one way this could change however, and that would be for some explanation as to why he is the way he is.

If there is one overriding factor that makes the storytelling in these movies sub par, it is that the histories, motivations, and feelings of the individual Transformers are largely ignored in favour of focus on human interest and comedy.

Optimus is a 'prime' example of this. When his ally, Jazz, meets his end, he doesn't seem to care. His home planet is doomed to oblivion, he doesn't seem to care. I wouldn't go as far as to call him an emotionless monster, since he seems to do an excellent job of protecting humans and their interests under the banner of justice, but he is seemingly cold and devoid of sympathy for anyone and anything that doesn't go squish underfoot. Even the much disputed execution of Demolisher displays to me only that he has no respect for existence of his own species.

I know, it's an analysis of story elements that probably weren't given much consideration.

But a little to nod to his history, perhaps what the Decepticons may have done to desensitize him in the past, would go a long long way to allaying the impression that this Prime is little more than a thunderous brute.
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248519)
Posted by dragons on June 28th, 2011 @ 8:38am CDT
no offense you should put in title some spoilers in description what happens to what chARACTER stupid caps lock i stopped reading half way hrough.

3d i feel same way you do your prblem problem with 3d is differnt i wear glasses when i watch movies you dont for me to see film in 3d is to have 2 pairs of glasses on my face not fun not comfterable & its very overused in movies & games now
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248521)
Posted by Counterpunch on June 28th, 2011 @ 8:46am CDT
RE: Prime's war strategy and "brutishness"

Deal with this hypothetical scenario in a manner you find to be appropriate. Here is what you need to know:

- You and I are enemies. We have irreconcilable differences.
- I plan to destroy you and everything you love and cherish.
- I will not relent, ever.
- If you defeat me and show me mercy, I promise that I will smite you for it at the earliest opportunity.
- If I can not defeat you outright, I will prey upon people and things you care about without pause, without mercy, and without thought for consequence.
- If you imprison me, I will work the system until everyone believe I am reformed and when I am freed I will kill you and everything you care about. I will NEVER EVER stop.

Please tell me your scenario for victory with the understanding of who your opponent now is.
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248523)
Posted by Tekka on June 28th, 2011 @ 8:52am CDT
The problem is not the method in which the fighting and killing is done, but the lack of character exposition which leads to this line of thinking.
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248526)
Posted by NemesisMonkeySupreme on June 28th, 2011 @ 8:54am CDT
Bleak5170 wrote:
hellkitty wrote:
I can't say I"m surprised by the 'fanservice' upskirt of Carly, but then again, Bay's idea of what's appropriate for family viewing is a bit...off (testicle jokes, anyone?) As they said about him in the HOF video, he knows what the male audience wants to see.

Unfortunately, I am not male.



I like Bay's movies but he's kind of an idiot. I'm male and I don't want to see either of those. Maybe if I was like 12 I would find giant testicles on a robot funny, (or perhaps not really), and I don't watch a movie like this for up-skirt shots.

Or maybe if he (Bay) didn't have a thing for trollops, though I suppose that is entirely subjective, but tends to follow what I see as his lowest common denominator approach to filmmaking.

You can probably guess I'm not a fan of these films and I don't really see this one (once it's on Netflix) changing my mind, but hearty commendations for the work put into this review. A lot of us may disagree and argue about the films and figures and Prime-knows-what-else but I think we can all agree that it's this kind of dedication that keeps us coming back to Seibertron.com. :APPLAUSE:
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248529)
Posted by Counterpunch on June 28th, 2011 @ 8:56am CDT
Tekka wrote:The problem is not the method in which the fighting and killing is done, but the lack of character exposition which leads to this line of thinking.


It's not necessary to explain that via exposition. An army from outer-space is teleporting in with their tentacle monster.

Hesitation is death.

If Prime has to be a rattle-craddle murder machine to save me from outer-space tentacle monsters and genocidal robots, then get out the way because me and my buddy Prime are killing them all.
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248530)
Posted by Counterpunch on June 28th, 2011 @ 8:58am CDT
Counterpunch wrote:
Tekka wrote:The problem is not the method in which the fighting and killing is done, but the lack of character exposition which leads to this line of thinking.


It's not necessary to explain that via exposition. An army from outer-space is teleporting in with their tentacle monster.

Hesitation is death.

If Prime has to be a rattle-craddle murder machine to save me from outer-space tentacle monsters and genocidal robots, then get out the way because me and my buddy Prime are killing them all.


Also, up-skirt shots keep morale high. USA! USA! USA!...and sometimes Japan! Nihon Ichiban!

(oops, sorry for the double post instead of edit, hit the wrong button)
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248531)
Posted by NemesisMonkeySupreme on June 28th, 2011 @ 8:59am CDT
Counterpunch wrote:RE: Prime's war strategy and "brutishness"

Deal with this hypothetical scenario in a manner you find to be appropriate. Here is what you need to know:

- You and I are enemies. We have irreconcilable differences.
- I plan to destroy you and everything you love and cherish.
- I will not relent, ever.
- If you defeat me and show me mercy, I promise that I will smite you for it at the earliest opportunity.
- If I can not defeat you outright, I will prey upon people and things you care about without pause, without mercy, and without thought for consequence.
- If you imprison me, I will work the system until everyone believe I am reformed and when I am freed I will kill you and everything you care about. I will NEVER EVER stop.

Please tell me your scenario for victory with the understanding of who your opponent now is.


Dude, leave Batman out of this. Wait… ;)
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248532)
Posted by Tekka on June 28th, 2011 @ 9:03am CDT
Counterpunch wrote:
Tekka wrote:The problem is not the method in which the fighting and killing is done, but the lack of character exposition which leads to this line of thinking.


It's not necessary to explain that via exposition. An army from outer-space is teleporting in with their tentacle monster.

Hesitation is death.

If Prime has to be a rattle-craddle murder machine to save me from outer-space tentacle monsters and genocidal robots, then get out the way because me and my buddy Prime are killing them all.

It absolutely is necessary. I can't speak for anything that happens in Dark of the Moon, as I haven't seen it yet. But a little development in that way in both the original movie and ROTF would have gone a long way to preventing the needlessly brutal Autobots frame of mind from ever occurring.

Show us why Prime has to fight the way he does. Show us why the Decepticons have to be slaughtered to the last. Explain to us that Cybertron is beyond saving and make Prime's lack of concern mesh with our knowledge. Make us feel the pain of the Cybertronian war, and show us why the Autobots have to put aside their good nature for the sake of survival.
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248534)
Posted by NemesisMonkeySupreme on June 28th, 2011 @ 9:07am CDT
"Megatron must be stopped, no matter the cost."

<cue music>
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248535)
Posted by Counterpunch on June 28th, 2011 @ 9:08am CDT
Tekka wrote:
Counterpunch wrote:
Tekka wrote:The problem is not the method in which the fighting and killing is done, but the lack of character exposition which leads to this line of thinking.


It's not necessary to explain that via exposition. An army from outer-space is teleporting in with their tentacle monster.

Hesitation is death.

If Prime has to be a rattle-craddle murder machine to save me from outer-space tentacle monsters and genocidal robots, then get out the way because me and my buddy Prime are killing them all.


It absolutely is necessary. I can't speak for anything that happens in Dark of the Moon, as I haven't seen it yet. But a little development in that way in both the original movie and ROTF would have gone a long way preventing the needlessly brutal Autobots frame of mind from ever occurring.

Show us why Prime has to fight the way he does. Show us why the Decepticons have to be slaughtered to the last. Explain to us that Cybertron is beyond saving and make Prime's lack of concern mesh with our knowledge. Make us feel the pain of the Cybertronian war, and show us why the Autobots have to put aside their good nature for the sake of survival.


Are you not paying attention to what happened in RotF?

They wanted to destroy our planet for gas money (essentially).

SERIOUSLY. What more do you need to know? They ALL have to die because if they don't, assuredly we ALL will die.

Also, what is this about Autobots being needlessly brutal? How exactly do you prefer your killing? Would it be better if they did a little prayer afterwards? Or perhaps pushed all the Decepticons out of windows?

Here, if you want to criticize Prime, it'd be better to go with this: Optimus Prime is a traitor to his own race. He'd rather see an under-evolved race survive than his own people. Megatron and Sentinel are right to try and secure their own future. Prime is a weakling who can't even protect his own world.

That's legit. Saying that the Decepticons should be handled with kid-gloves and a bill of rights is not legit.
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248536)
Posted by Bleak5170 on June 28th, 2011 @ 9:09am CDT
dragons wrote:no offense you should put in title some spoilers in description what happens to what chARACTER stupid caps lock i stopped reading half way hrough.



The 2nd paragraph clearly states:

"First and foremost, if you don't want to read any spoilers, just stop reading this review. I don't hold back anything in my reviews. It's all here that I was able to jot down since midnight. If you want to be spoiled, please be my guest and read on .."

If you were spoiled by anything beyond that it's your own fault.
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248537)
Posted by Cheesinator on June 28th, 2011 @ 9:13am CDT
Counterpunch wrote:RE: Prime's war strategy and "brutishness"

Deal with this hypothetical scenario in a manner you find to be appropriate. Here is what you need to know:

- You and I are enemies. We have irreconcilable differences.
- I plan to destroy you and everything you love and cherish.
- I will not relent, ever.
- If you defeat me and show me mercy, I promise that I will smite you for it at the earliest opportunity.
- If I can not defeat you outright, I will prey upon people and things you care about without pause, without mercy, and without thought for consequence.
- If you imprison me, I will work the system until everyone believe I am reformed and when I am freed I will kill you and everything you care about. I will NEVER EVER stop.

Please tell me your scenario for victory with the understanding of who your opponent now is.


You realise of course that several of those points require precognitive powers.

Besides, even if his single-minded slaughter of Decepticons is justified in a 'kill or be killed' sense, it doesn't change the fact that the Prime in Bayverse is STILL a remorseless and violent killer. The only reason he's a 'good guy' is because he's allied with the humans. To those not under his banner, he's a nightmarish villain.

Other incarnations of Prime somehow managed to be heroes and still fight off the 'Cons. This is the only one who makes quips before executing defenceless foes (Demolisher), delivers one-liners before AND after tearing heads apart (Grindor), and being really unnecessarily violent (face-ripping).
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248540)
Posted by Rodimus Prime on June 28th, 2011 @ 9:18am CDT
Well, that's definitely a different and much shittier ending than the book. I was so pumped for this movie, but now I'm a bit deflated. I'm still gonna see it, but I can't believe that's how Megatron ends up. The main reason for me to see this was to see him return as the true leader he was always supposed to be, given a badass alt mode and weapon. And in the end it gets wasted. How sad.
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248542)
Posted by Tekka on June 28th, 2011 @ 9:20am CDT
Counterpunch wrote:
Tekka wrote:
Counterpunch wrote:
Tekka wrote:The problem is not the method in which the fighting and killing is done, but the lack of character exposition which leads to this line of thinking.


It's not necessary to explain that via exposition. An army from outer-space is teleporting in with their tentacle monster.

Hesitation is death.

If Prime has to be a rattle-craddle murder machine to save me from outer-space tentacle monsters and genocidal robots, then get out the way because me and my buddy Prime are killing them all.


It absolutely is necessary. I can't speak for anything that happens in Dark of the Moon, as I haven't seen it yet. But a little development in that way in both the original movie and ROTF would have gone a long way preventing the needlessly brutal Autobots frame of mind from ever occurring.

Show us why Prime has to fight the way he does. Show us why the Decepticons have to be slaughtered to the last. Explain to us that Cybertron is beyond saving and make Prime's lack of concern mesh with our knowledge. Make us feel the pain of the Cybertronian war, and show us why the Autobots have to put aside their good nature for the sake of survival.


Are you not paying attention to what happened in RotF?

They wanted to destroy our planet for gas money (essentially).

SERIOUSLY. What more do you need to know? They ALL have to die because if they don't, assuredly we ALL will die.

Also, what is this about Autobots being needlessly brutal? How exactly do you prefer your killing? Would it be better if they did a little prayer afterwards? Or perhaps pushed all the Decepticons out of windows?

Here, if you want to criticize Prime, it'd be better to go with this: Optimus Prime is a traitor to his own race. He'd rather see an under-evolved race survive than his own people. Megatron and Sentinel are right to try and secure their own future. Prime is a weakling who can't even protect his own world.

That's legit. Saying that the Decepticons should be handled with kid-gloves and a bill of rights is not legit.


"That's legit. Saying that the Decepticons should be handled with kid-gloves and a bill of rights is not legit."
Please don't put words in my mouth. And the criticism you just brought up for me, was something I'd already covered. Don't treat me like I'm below some level of understanding.

I don't want to focus on the very simplest level of the plot. "Stop them or we die." That may be enough for you, but it's not what I would have imagined coming from a decidely more adult movie. I can't break it down any further for you than I already have.

If Prime doesn't care about one of his comrades dying, I want to know why.

If he doesn't care about his planet being doomed, I want to know why.

If he has to go against everything he believes in and takes a life from enemy that can no longer fight back, I want to know what changed him into that person.

That's all. It's about telling the story of the characters, not defeating the monster of the day.
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248544)
Posted by Counterpunch on June 28th, 2011 @ 9:22am CDT
Cheesinator wrote:
Counterpunch wrote:RE: Prime's war strategy and "brutishness"

Deal with this hypothetical scenario in a manner you find to be appropriate. Here is what you need to know:

- You and I are enemies. We have irreconcilable differences.
- I plan to destroy you and everything you love and cherish.
- I will not relent, ever.
- If you defeat me and show me mercy, I promise that I will smite you for it at the earliest opportunity.
- If I can not defeat you outright, I will prey upon people and things you care about without pause, without mercy, and without thought for consequence.
- If you imprison me, I will work the system until everyone believe I am reformed and when I am freed I will kill you and everything you care about. I will NEVER EVER stop.

Please tell me your scenario for victory with the understanding of who your opponent now is.


You realise of course that several of those points require precognitive powers.


No, they don't because like Megatron, I am telling you those things ahead of time.

Besides, even if his single-minded slaughter of Decepticons is justified in a 'kill or be killed' sense, it doesn't change the fact that the Prime in Bayverse is STILL a remorseless and violent killer. The only reason he's a 'good guy' is because he's allied with the humans. To those not under his banner, he's a nightmarish villain.


He's a nightmarish villain to my enemies? That's the best news an army could hope to hear. Fu ck the Decepticons.

Other incarnations of Prime somehow managed to be heroes and still fight off the 'Cons. This is the only one who makes quips before executing defenceless foes (Demolisher), delivers one-liners before AND after tearing heads apart (Grindor), and being really unnecessarily violent (face-ripping).


Only because cartoons wouldn't let Prime get real and because his villains were cartoon villains who didn't kill humans. The examples are not even comparible.

Prime didn't make a 'quip' before killing the human murdering invader from space Demolisher. He gave him last words and then put him out of his misery after Demolisher destroyed parts of Beijing.

As for tearing heads apart...he was in a 3 on 1 fight to protect humanity at the cost of his own life and you presume to tell him how he should kill?

Like this...but not like that...be nicer...feel guilty about winning against these murderers who 10 minutes ago were going to dissect your friend?

Why do you hate humanity?

Face ripping? Off of that former Prime who violated their most sacred tenants? Who betrayed his own brothers? The Fallen did not deserve a face. It was like being stripped of his rank.

Strap on your balls fellas, Optimus is right to kick the shit out of these death bringers from space.

He could have not worked with the government. He could have gone rogue. He could have done any number of things to allow the war to spread and affect more people, but he has always acted in humanity's interest and you all should better recognize that and stop agonizing over how he's getting the job done.
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248546)
Posted by Counterpunch on June 28th, 2011 @ 9:22am CDT
Tekka wrote:
Counterpunch wrote:
Tekka wrote:
Counterpunch wrote:
Tekka wrote:The problem is not the method in which the fighting and killing is done, but the lack of character exposition which leads to this line of thinking.


It's not necessary to explain that via exposition. An army from outer-space is teleporting in with their tentacle monster.

Hesitation is death.

If Prime has to be a rattle-craddle murder machine to save me from outer-space tentacle monsters and genocidal robots, then get out the way because me and my buddy Prime are killing them all.


It absolutely is necessary. I can't speak for anything that happens in Dark of the Moon, as I haven't seen it yet. But a little development in that way in both the original movie and ROTF would have gone a long way preventing the needlessly brutal Autobots frame of mind from ever occurring.

Show us why Prime has to fight the way he does. Show us why the Decepticons have to be slaughtered to the last. Explain to us that Cybertron is beyond saving and make Prime's lack of concern mesh with our knowledge. Make us feel the pain of the Cybertronian war, and show us why the Autobots have to put aside their good nature for the sake of survival.


Are you not paying attention to what happened in RotF?

They wanted to destroy our planet for gas money (essentially).

SERIOUSLY. What more do you need to know? They ALL have to die because if they don't, assuredly we ALL will die.

Also, what is this about Autobots being needlessly brutal? How exactly do you prefer your killing? Would it be better if they did a little prayer afterwards? Or perhaps pushed all the Decepticons out of windows?

Here, if you want to criticize Prime, it'd be better to go with this: Optimus Prime is a traitor to his own race. He'd rather see an under-evolved race survive than his own people. Megatron and Sentinel are right to try and secure their own future. Prime is a weakling who can't even protect his own world.

That's legit. Saying that the Decepticons should be handled with kid-gloves and a bill of rights is not legit.


"That's legit. Saying that the Decepticons should be handled with kid-gloves and a bill of rights is not legit."
Please don't put words in my mouth. And the criticism you just brought up for me, was something I'd already covered. Don't treat me like I'm below some level of understanding.

I don't want to focus on the very simplest level of the plot. "Stop them or we die." That may be enough for you, but it's not what I would have imagined coming from a decidely more adult movie. I can't break it down any further for you than I already have.

If Prime doesn't care about one of his comrades dying, I want to know why.

If he doesn't care about his planet being doomed, I want to know why.

If he has to go against everything he believes in and takes a life from enemy that can no longer fight back, I want to know what changed him into that person.

That's all. It's about telling the story of the characters, not defeating the monster of the day.


Fair enough.
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248548)
Posted by NemesisMonkeySupreme on June 28th, 2011 @ 9:28am CDT
Tekka wrote:It's about telling the story of the characters, not defeating the monster of the day.


Unfortunately, you're looking for a dramatic film in an action film. With a cast of characters so large and a heavy focus on explosions et al something has to give. Unfortunately, you're probably in a minority when it comes to character development being high on the list. Let's be honest, no one is going to this looking for nominations for Best Screenplay. It's a summer blockbuster. Whether or not you're complaints are valid (and having not seen the film I cannot say, though I have an inkling) I think they are misdirected.
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248552)
Posted by Tekka on June 28th, 2011 @ 9:36am CDT
NemesisMonkeySupreme wrote:
Tekka wrote:It's about telling the story of the characters, not defeating the monster of the day.


Unfortunately, you're looking for a dramatic film in an action film. With a cast of characters so large and a heavy focus on explosions et al something has to give. Unfortunately, you're probably in a minority when it comes to character development being high on the list. Let's be honest, no one is going to this looking for nominations for Best Screenplay. It's a summer blockbuster. Whether or not you're complaints are valid (and having not seen the film I cannot say, though I have an inkling) I think they are misdirected.


Thing is, I'm not looking for it because I know I won't find it. I'm not totally ignorant, ya know. =(

I just wanted to bring up, what I thought, was a legitimate criticism of the characters of the Transformers. Which has been my one major gripe over the course of these movies. There simply isn't enough time devoted to them and to explain why they do the things they do. Or in some cases, why they do horrendously stupid things like urinate on humans or dance around houses.
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248555)
Posted by Starscream GaGa on June 28th, 2011 @ 9:38am CDT
So, me and my brother won tickets to the Transformers DOTM Adelaide premiere and I just got back from it. First thing, the movie is actually good. Better than the first, a thousand times better then the second. Then I would like to say I SPOTTED SKIDS AND MUDFLAP, Michael Bay, give me the money. Now.

OK, so interesting spoilers are:
-It opens with an (awesome) scene during the Cybertron war
-It IS Que and Dino, not Wheeljack and Mirage and Dino has an Italian accent while Que has British
-Notable deaths are Megatron, Sentinel Prime, Soundwave, Barricade, Laserbeak, Shockwave, Ironhide and Que. Brains and Wheelie are hard, because they are in a Decepticon ship that crashes and are never to be seen again, but the scene seems more played for comedy than dramatic effect, leading me to believe they didn't die.
-Skids and Mudflap ARE in one scene, driving into NEST with the Autobots like in the trailer
-Barricade is actually in it quite a bit, but is still mostly a background character
-There are only three Dreads, Crankcase, Hatchet and Crowbar, but they all have Crankcase's toy's alt-mode
-Shockwave only speaks in Cybertronian and Topspin doesn't speak at all.
-The ending is different to the adaptions. Optimus is a mega dick. Megatron offers him a truce and Optimus responds by PULLING HIS HEAD OFF! The final scene actually seemed sort of rushed, like there should have been more and it just never happened.

OK, so yes, that's about it for new spoilers that we hadn't known before hand.

The main downers of the movie would have to be:

-The ending change appears to be last minute. The sequence of events happens the same as a novel, the only difference being Optimus' reaction to Megatron's proposed truce being to kill him. It felt awkward and considering how quickly the movie cut to the credits, it seems it was changed to save time.
-There's slopping editing around the twin's absence As I said before, they can clearly be seen driving with the other Autobots as they return to NEST and it is painfully obvious that there was a scene cut immediately after Ironhide's death (where the twin died in the novel). Bumblebee is seen falling to the ground, presumably after being save by the twins as parts of what looks like Mudflap fall round him.
-Shockwave. He doesn't really do much, nor does he talk English, the only understandable thing he says is "Optimus" during his first appearance. While he does shoot at things a couple of times, he spends the majority of his scenes standing around looking pretty. It is his death seen in the trailers, being punched by Optimus, who then proceeds to shoot his gun at the piller and rip open his neck.
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248556)
Posted by NemesisMonkeySupreme on June 28th, 2011 @ 9:41am CDT
Tekka wrote:
NemesisMonkeySupreme wrote:
Tekka wrote:It's about telling the story of the characters, not defeating the monster of the day.


Unfortunately, you're looking for a dramatic film in an action film. With a cast of characters so large and a heavy focus on explosions et al something has to give. Unfortunately, you're probably in a minority when it comes to character development being high on the list. Let's be honest, no one is going to this looking for nominations for Best Screenplay. It's a summer blockbuster. Whether or not you're complaints are valid (and having not seen the film I cannot say, though I have an inkling) I think they are misdirected.


Thing is, I'm not looking for it because I know I won't find it. I'm not totally ignorant, ya know. =(

I just wanted to bring up, what I thought, was a legitimate criticism of the characters of the Transformers. Which has been my one major gripe over the course of these movies. There simply isn't enough time devoted to them and to explain why they do the things they do. Or in some cases, why they do horrendously stupid things like urinate on humans or dance around houses.

Granted (and I didn't mean to imply any ignorance or stupidity). But you just seem so shocked at the lack of characterization when you admit it lacked in previous films. Realize that my tongue is planted firmly in cheek when I ask, "Did you really believe the director/crew apologies for past failings and expect anything else?"
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248557)
Posted by Tekka on June 28th, 2011 @ 9:45am CDT
I had no expectations at all. I'm just voicing how I believe things could have been better, in my oh so humble opinion.

I.e. Not screaming to the heavens, "OMFG I CAN'T BELIVE THEY DIDN'T PUT THIS AND THIS AND THIS INTO THE MOVIE! I DEMAND A REBOOT!" :P
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248558)
Posted by Cheesinator on June 28th, 2011 @ 9:45am CDT
Counterpunch wrote:He's a nightmarish villain to my enemies? That's the best news an army could hope to hear. Fu ck the Decepticons.

Only because cartoons wouldn't let Prime get real and because his villains were cartoon villains who didn't kill humans. The examples are not even comparible.

Prime didn't make a 'quip' before killing the human murdering invader from space Demolisher. He gave him last words and then put him out of his misery after Demolisher destroyed parts of Beijing.

As for tearing heads apart...he was in a 3 on 1 fight to protect humanity at the cost of his own life and you presume to tell him how he should kill?

Like this...but not like that...be nicer...feel guilty about winning against these murderers who 10 minutes ago were going to dissect your friend?

Why do you hate humanity?

Face ripping? Off of that former Prime who violated their most sacred tenants? Who betrayed his own brothers? The Fallen did not deserve a face. It was like being stripped of his rank.

Strap on your balls fellas, Optimus is right to kick the shit out of these death bringers from space.

He could have not worked with the government. He could have gone rogue. He could have done any number of things to allow the war to spread and affect more people, but he has always acted in humanity's interest and you all should better recognize that and stop agonizing over how he's getting the job done.


This is exactly my point, thanks.

As Counterpunch has outlined, the Bayverse Prime from ROTF onwards has become just as ruthless and vicious as the enemies he is trying to defeat. Over the course of the movies, Prime's heroism was sacrificed to make him look badass and cool.

Megatron is kinda a dick to humans (who, it must be remembered, kept him imprisoned in ice for hundreds of years and tinkered with him constantly), but he's actively and constantly trying to save his race and his planet. He also doesn't mess around when it comes to killing. He killed Jazz and Prime outright...no gradual dismemberment or torture, which is faaaar more than can be said for Prime.
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248561)
Posted by Darth Bombshell on June 28th, 2011 @ 9:48am CDT
Seibertron wrote:Skids and Mudflap were indeed missing from the film. I didn't even see them as additional robots during the scene where the Autobots were exiled from Earth. I didn't miss them though I do think they would have served as great cannon fodder.


You didn't see them there because Sentinel Prime has destroyed them, along with Ironhide, at this point. At least, according to the adaptations.
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248563)
Posted by Doubledealer93 on June 28th, 2011 @ 9:50am CDT
great, this means i wasted about 24 bucks on skids and mudflap that are not in the movie :BOOM: :BOOM:
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248564)
Posted by Starscream GaGa on June 28th, 2011 @ 9:50am CDT
They could be seen when the Autobots were returning to NEST. I want my money!
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248565)
Posted by NemesisMonkeySupreme on June 28th, 2011 @ 9:51am CDT
Tekka wrote:"OMFG I CAN'T BELIVE THEY DIDN'T PUT THIS AND THIS AND THIS INTO THE MOVIE! I DEMAND A REBOOT!" :P


:lol: yeah, good luck with that reverse-psychology ;)


TF4TW!!! (Transformers 4: The Win!!!) :P
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248568)
Posted by Tekka on June 28th, 2011 @ 9:57am CDT
NemesisMonkeySupreme wrote:
Tekka wrote:"OMFG I CAN'T BELIVE THEY DIDN'T PUT THIS AND THIS AND THIS INTO THE MOVIE! I DEMAND A REBOOT!" :P


:lol: yeah, good luck with that reverse-psychology ;)


TF4TW!!! (Transformers 4: The Win!!!) :P


I... Really don't know what you mean. :???:
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248571)
Posted by Starscream GaGa on June 28th, 2011 @ 10:00am CDT
Skids and Mudflap are seen in NEST headquarters. Also, it would appear their deaths were originally in the movie, but were cut out, I just got the impression that there was some scenes missing during Sentinel's betrayal scene.

I personally loved the movie, except for Optimus' dick move of killing Megatron at the ending.
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248575)
Posted by Cheesinator on June 28th, 2011 @ 10:02am CDT
Shame, I was really looking forward to Megatron's arc playing out like it does in the novel.

Ah well, good to hear it's enjoyable and better than ROTF. I look forward to seeing it later today!

Should've guessed that Shockwave would turn out like this, with all the promotion and publicity the character has received. :lol:
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248576)
Posted by OlivusPrime on June 28th, 2011 @ 10:05am CDT
So are Mirage and Wheeljack really called Dino and Q? If so, that REALLY sucks. If anything, I was looking forward to seeing characters named "Wheeljack" and "Mirage" on the big screen.
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248577)
Posted by Doubledealer93 on June 28th, 2011 @ 10:06am CDT
so seibertron, did megatron die in the end???
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248578)
Posted by Starscream GaGa on June 28th, 2011 @ 10:11am CDT
Megatron is probably in the movie less than he was in ROTF. Really Laserbeak is the Decepticon with all the scenes. Shockwave also is at least is in more than two scenes, like people were saying and he is identified as a major threat and takes on all nine Autobots at once, forcing them to flee. I was just a bit saddened at him being rofl stomped by humans and then destroyed by Optimus.

Oh! And another major plus: The robots do things!

There are more scenes with robots then without robots! This is a massive improvement after ROTF. Battle scenes are also traceable and not just watching robots shoot at robots. Sideswipe and Ironhide VS Crankcase and Crowbar in particular is a battle scene far better than we've ever gotten before.
Another cute tidbit was Barricade hates Bumblebee. When they're captured, Barricade pushes over Bumblebee and growls "Bee..." before leaving to assumedly go talk to Shockwave, where he dies in a later scene.
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248579)
Posted by Starscream GaGa on June 28th, 2011 @ 10:13am CDT
OlivusPrime wrote:So are Mirage and Wheeljack really called Dino and Q? If so, that REALLY sucks. If anything, I was looking forward to seeing characters named "Wheeljack" and "Mirage" on the big screen.

Yes. The ferrari is identified as Dino via a PA message in NEST and Que introduces himself as Que.
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248580)
Posted by Starscream GaGa on June 28th, 2011 @ 10:15am CDT
Doubledealer25 wrote:so seibertron, did megatron die in the end???


Yes. In the most awkward scene imaginable.

Sentinel is about to kill Optimus, but is shot in the chest by Megatron, who then tears into him, ripping off his helmet and pulling his chest to pieces. Sentinel falls to the ground and Megatron turns to Optimus saying:

"We need a truce. All that I ask is that I keep my command. Besides, what would you be without me?"

Optimus says "I'm about to find out." and proceeds to tear off Megatron's head before he has a chance to react. Optimus really comes across as the bad guy.

EDIT: Eek! Sorry for the Double Post!
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248581)
Posted by OneConArmy on June 28th, 2011 @ 10:15am CDT
Dissapointed that the Twins are gone :sad:
Even more disapointed that Mirage and Wheeljack are "Dino" and "Que"... :SICK: (still gonna call them Mirage and Wheeljack)

But the special effects and everything else makes up for that :D
Re: Seibertron.com's review of Transformers Dark of the Moon: A Fan Perspective (1248585)
Posted by Tekka on June 28th, 2011 @ 10:22am CDT
Starscream GaGa wrote:Sentinel is about to kill Optimus, but is shot in the chest by Megatron, who then tears into him, ripping off his helmet and pulling his chest to pieces. Sentienl fall to the ground and Megatron turn's to Optimus saying:

"We need a truce. All that I ask is that I keep my command. Besides, what would you be without me?" Optimus says "I'm about to find out." and proceeds to tear off Megatron's head ebfore he has a chance to react. Optmius really comes across as the bad guy.


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Transformers Podcast: Twincast / Podcast #104 - Wrath of Con
Twincast / Podcast #104:
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