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Twincast / Podcast Episode #68 "ReChrome"

Transformers News: Twincast / Podcast Episode #68 "ReChrome"

Thursday, May 16th, 2013 10:18AM CDT

Categories: Media, Podcast, Site News
Posted by: Razorclaw0000   Views: 27,550

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You've heard of Bennifer and Branjelina, now the latest episode of theSeibertron.com Twincast is here to tackle the thorny issue of "ReChrome", the relationship between IDW's Chromedome and Rewind, featured in "More Than Meets The Eye". Join host Counterpunch along with regular crew Razorclaw, Seibertron, jON3.0, and tigertracks 24 for discussions about this topic and much more. As always, the episode is available directly and in our RSS Feed and should appear on iTunes within 24 to 48 hours of this news post.

Episode #68 includes the following discussion topics:

Bragging Rights and catch up with Counterpunch and Tigertracks!

In hand with Generations Springer and Blitzwing. Most of the cast has these now, and we give our unvarnished opinions, good and bad!

Twincast/Podcast Episode 68 "ReChrome"

Generations Metroplex Official Images! Thoughts on size, articulation, and much more!

Twincast/Podcast Episode 68 "ReChrome"

Transformers: Legends: who's playing? How much have we spent? Is it fun and can you play for free?

Twincast/Podcast Episode 68 "ReChrome"

Transformers Comic Roundtable: What does Chromedome and Rewind's relationship mean to the continuity? Does it matter? Why was it done? Join us for a respectful, candid discussion on the nature of sexuality and relationships in the IDW universe.

Bragging Rights (part 2)

--------------------------------

Thank you for listening to the Seibertron.com Twincast / Podcast. We really appreciate all of the support we receive.
Search Got Transformers News? Let us know here!
Re: Twincast / Podcast Episode #68 "ReChrome" (1487729)
Posted by Lord Onixprime on May 16th, 2013 @ 10:40am CDT
Hmmm, its not in the RSS feed.
Re: Twincast / Podcast Episode #68 "ReChrome" (1487738)
Posted by welcometothedarksyde on May 16th, 2013 @ 11:39am CDT
Wait, is this being portrayed as a homosexual relationship? Or did I misread what this was about. Before I watch the podcast, just my initial reaction is that this seems ridiculous. I think that any Transformers "relationships" seem utterly ridiculous. Transformers don't exactly have gender, but rather some allusions to gender. So a lot of relationships between Transformers seem ridiculous and superfluous.
Another question I have (not being an IDW reader), are relationships common in IDW canon? If it is I can understand this ReChrome relationship, however if it's not then this seems like a publicity stunt.

Okay, now to actually listen to the podcast. Don't yell at me yet
Re: Twincast / Podcast Episode #68 "ReChrome" (1487747)
Posted by Counterpunch on May 16th, 2013 @ 12:18pm CDT
Regarding the MtMtE 16 discussion...

Just an FYI, there was some hesitation in even having this discussion for fear that no matter how academically or responsibly it was done, someone somewhere would still jump at any one small thing said and take issue with it.

Please listen and differentiate between what is being discussed and what the staff's actual opinions are.

I, and this is just me plain talking it, think this is a great topic and discussion with no one right answer.

Let's see how this goes.
Re: Twincast / Podcast Episode #68 "ReChrome" (1487748)
Posted by Rated X on May 16th, 2013 @ 12:21pm CDT
welcometothedarksyde wrote:Wait, is this being portrayed as a homosexual relationship? Or did I misread what this was about. Before I watch the podcast, just my initial reaction is that this seems ridiculous. I think that any Transformers "relationships" seem utterly ridiculous. Transformers don't exactly have gender, but rather some allusions to gender. So a lot of relationships between Transformers seem ridiculous and superfluous.
Another question I have (not being an IDW reader), are relationships common in IDW canon? If it is I can understand this ReChrome relationship, however if it's not then this seems like a publicity stunt.

Okay, now to actually listen to the podcast. Don't yell at me yet


LMAO !!! Just think of it as a "Bert and Ernie" type relationship. :lol:
Re: Twincast / Podcast Episode #68 "ReChrome" (1487759)
Posted by JRFitzpatrick7 on May 16th, 2013 @ 12:55pm CDT
When I heard Counterpunch open the podcast:
I did a fist pump (think breakfast club).

As for Chromedome and Rewind, it's a bromance, always read that way to me. Jumping to them being in a homosexual relationship simply because they cared about eachother is rediculous. Yes they love eachother, no they are not in love with eachother, no they are not males as we humans classify the male sex. They are males in terms of personality and characteristics.

The relationship between them read perfectly as a "best friendship"!

All that being said before listening to the whole podcast... Man I hope you guys discuss the comics in this issue...
Re: Twincast / Podcast Episode #68 "ReChrome" (1487767)
Posted by Lord Onixprime on May 16th, 2013 @ 1:19pm CDT
I've always been of the mind that Transformers are genderless, and rather just identify better with one gender or another (as gender serves, at is base form, as sexual reproduction which Transformers don't do). So, I've always imagined that they can 'love' each other in many ways, even as bonded partners. I can't say it bothers me, as long as they don't start giving Transformers genitals.
Re: Twincast / Podcast Episode #68 "ReChrome" (1487768)
Posted by Spaceship Bruce on May 16th, 2013 @ 1:24pm CDT
JRFitzpatrick7 wrote:As for Chromedome and Rewind, it's a bromance, always read that way to me. Jumping to them being in a homosexual relationship simply because they cared about eachother is rediculous.



Nope. Chromedome & Rewind are GAY GAY GAY. They're a couple of gay robot lovers. Sure, they can't have robot sex but they love each other & they are gay. No big whoop. And the writer has some pretty big balls to introduce the concept but it seems like he did so with the right amount of ambiguity.
Re: Twincast / Podcast Episode #68 "ReChrome" (1487770)
Posted by worldsgreatest on May 16th, 2013 @ 1:35pm CDT
Counterpunch wrote:Regarding the MtMtE 16 discussion...

Just an FYI, there was some hesitation in even having this discussion for fear that no matter how academically or responsibly it was done, someone somewhere would still jump at any one small thing said and take issue with it.

Please listen and differentiate between what is being discussed and what the staff's actual opinions are.

I, and this is just me plain talking it, think this is a great topic and discussion with no one right answer.

Let's see how this goes.



I believe I'm the one who claimed "dirty pool". It probably came across a lot nastier than I had intended, and if so I apolgize. But yes, this is a potentially difficult conversation to have. I appreciate that the crew at least broached the subject as yeah: I did feel that it was purposely left out of the previous podcast due to the tricky nature.

It almost feel like this is a topic specifically taylored for message board conversation. Mostly because (and sorry Ryan) other Transformers boards I participate in have a much more active message board community; of which this topic has already been talked about ad nauseam. Which is good! In fact, I'm pleasantly surpised at the number of fans I've seen be like: "F it. Love is love. Rewind and Chromedome forever". But mainly, typing things out allows time to think, to analyze, and to prepare a more neutral voice.

I certainly don't think anyone should be castigated for their views if they don't agree with this topic. Being able to explain a standpoint logically (in the author's mind) without feeling pressure to be completely PC for fear of stepping on toes is important in furthering both the topic of uh, Transformers comics as well as progressing discussions regarding the LGBT community.

Each one of you brought up what I feel are legitimate problems with Roberts' handling of Rewind and Chromedome's relationship. Mostof them seem to stem from IDW's dictum of 'Transformers have no gender', which is a weird stance anyway.

Personally I felt the Rewind and Chromedome relationship was very well fleshed out. There were enough queues and subtle hints along the way to let readers know that this wasn't just a friendship. The scene in MTME #12 where Chromedome doesn't have any innermost energon is basically where Roberts tips his hat completely by assigning them as 'conjunx endura'.
Re: Twincast / Podcast Episode #68 "ReChrome" (1487771)
Posted by Spaceship Bruce on May 16th, 2013 @ 1:39pm CDT
welcometothedarksyde wrote:I think that any Transformers "relationships" seem utterly ridiculous.


I'm tempted to agree but TFs are already full of familiar traits & characterizations that we readily accept, so what's wrong with a few more? The idea of siblings is equally outlandish but I think the writers made that one contextual, i.e. Topspin & Twin Twist having a shared spark or whatever. I say kudos to the writers for adding to the mythos.
Re: Twincast / Podcast Episode #68 "ReChrome" (1487773)
Posted by Counterpunch on May 16th, 2013 @ 1:53pm CDT
Spaceship Bruce wrote:
welcometothedarksyde wrote:I think that any Transformers "relationships" seem utterly ridiculous.


I'm tempted to agree but TFs are already full of familiar traits & characterizations that we readily accept, so what's wrong with a few more? The idea of siblings is equally outlandish but I think the writers made that one contextual, i.e. Topspin & Twin Twist having a shared spark or whatever. I say kudos to the writers for adding to the mythos.


Agreed.

Now the real matter at hand is taking the subject matter and making it legitimate by not having this be a one time thing.

The cat is out of the bag, if there is nothing more to the idea of relationships between Transformers, then issue 16 becomes little more than a strange footnote.
Re: Twincast / Podcast Episode #68 "ReChrome" (1487775)
Posted by JRFitzpatrick7 on May 16th, 2013 @ 1:59pm CDT
Spaceship Bruce wrote:
welcometothedarksyde wrote:I think that any Transformers "relationships" seem utterly ridiculous.


I'm tempted to agree but TFs are already full of familiar traits & characterizations that we readily accept, so what's wrong with a few more? The idea of siblings is equally outlandish but I think the writers made that one contextual, i.e. Topspin & Twin Twist having a shared spark or whatever. I say kudos to the writers for adding to the mythos.


I think a lot of people get hung up on these aspects of the mythos because they have a difficult time grasping what the Transformers are. People see that they are robotic and stop there, call them robots.

About to get REAL nerdy here!

They aren't just robots! They are autonomous robotic beings (from the planet Cybertron). They are an alien race that has a robotic physiology.
Re: Twincast / Podcast Episode #68 "ReChrome" (1487777)
Posted by Spaceship Bruce on May 16th, 2013 @ 2:04pm CDT
Counterpunch wrote:Now the real matter at hand is taking the subject matter and making it legitimate by not having this be a one time thing.


They can just keep it active willy-nilly. "Hey guys, also Tracks & Unicron are gay lovers, no big deal."
Re: Twincast / Podcast Episode #68 "ReChrome" (1487782)
Posted by MasterSoundBlaster on May 16th, 2013 @ 2:08pm CDT
Alright this seems to have turned into the "Is Chromedome and Rewind REALLY gay?" Thread...

My two cents/perspective on the subject:
- In a franchise highly populated my male figures, relationships like this are VERY common.
- This isn't wrong in any sense because everyone in the series is used to it.
- They're alien robots, who are we to say that isn't right?
- It is practically a very strong bromance. Love doesn't mean they have to make love, just that they are such good friends that they care deeply for each other.

Regardless of the politics, Chromedome is one of my favorite characters in MTMTE and I think he deserves a new figure.
Re: Twincast / Podcast Episode #68 "ReChrome" (1487790)
Posted by bionic_radical on May 16th, 2013 @ 2:36pm CDT
Gay robots are gay.
Re: Twincast / Podcast Episode #68 "ReChrome" (1487810)
Posted by Blurrz on May 16th, 2013 @ 4:10pm CDT
Bob, you said "you wanted more issues of Chromedome and Rewind" now that you know about their relationship, and there's nothing wrong with that, but think of it this way, we had a great view of their relationship for 16 issues! It might just seem like a normal relationship, and that's because it is. Those relationships are normal, and that's the beauty of it. It doesn't matter what one's sexuality is, or if Transformers have a sex, or a gender, or a sexuality, the one thing that resonates with me the most is that I'm not going to look at Chromedome any more differently from now on then before.

While I could explain this as the byproduct of Robert's great fleshing out of CD's character or my own personal bringing up of accepting people for who they are, I think the most important factor for me is that a Transformer's relationship or what they like or who they like is as important as their skill, their willpower, their intelligence, their weaknesses and their strengths, or they toy bio - it doesn't really matter all that much

That's why I think I can move on from this with ease and not make such a big deal about it. It's not a big deal at all!
Re: Twincast / Podcast Episode #68 "ReChrome" (1487813)
Posted by Razorclaw0000 on May 16th, 2013 @ 4:23pm CDT
Blurrz wrote:Bob, you said "you wanted more issues of Chromedome and Rewind" now that you know about their relationship, and there's nothing wrong with that, but think of it this way, we had a great view of their relationship for 16 issues! It might just seem like a normal relationship, and that's because it is. Those relationships are normal, and that's the beauty of it. It doesn't matter what one's sexuality is, or if Transformers have a sex, or a gender, or a sexuality, the one thing that resonates with me the most is that I'm not going to look at Chromedome any more differently from now on then before.

While I could explain this as the byproduct of Robert's great fleshing out of CD's character or my own personal bringing up of accepting people for who they are, I think the most important factor for me is that a Transformer's relationship or what they like or who they like is as important as their skill, their willpower, their intelligence, their weaknesses and their strengths, or they toy bio - it doesn't really matter all that much

That's why I think I can move on from this with ease and not make such a big deal about it. It's not a big deal at all!


It's not that I'm unaccepting of it, or anything like that. I was mainly disappointed that we had some subtext and hints for 11 issues, a "big reveal" in 12, and then not much, until 15 and 16 for Rewind's sacrifice and eulogy. Roberts teases a relationship, then tells you flat out it is one, and then uses it for a Joss Whedon-esque heart-wrench. I think it would have been great for him to explore the minutae of the relationship more. Does Chromedome leave his torso armor in the cabin? Does Rewind mumble during a recharge cycle?

We never got to see enough of two Cybertronian life forms living together (regardless of gender/sexuality). That's why it felt forced and plot facilitating to me.

Never once did I intend to come across as unaccepting of the human analogue, that's for sure! I apologize if I did.
Re: Twincast / Podcast Episode #68 "ReChrome" (1487815)
Posted by Blurrz on May 16th, 2013 @ 4:27pm CDT
Haha you don't have to apologize at all. You're not the Canadian here :P I just bought your quote up for reference and in no means wanted to do it negatively.

I think Roberts did this... simply because it is quite a touchy subject in society. Imagine if we knew about this relationship from Issue 1. In retrospective, despite how open-minded western society has become, I believe alot of fans and myself included, would have judged the two as bots that are 'different', rather than just as bots. Now that I know that they have this sort of relationship, conjux endura and what not, it doesn't change anything for me because they've proceeded just as the others have. I'm happy that I was able to judge them by their actions and not by their interests.

But I do agree. There needs to be more focus on the Cybertronian lifestyle - comics are the perfect medium for it.
Re: Twincast / Podcast Episode #68 "ReChrome" (1487891)
Posted by Sabrblade on May 16th, 2013 @ 10:12pm CDT
Wow! Very quick release on the next podcast. ;)^

Regarding the Legends game using toy designs for its character art, a good majority of its character art designs are also made up just for the game, like Megatron's.
Re: Twincast / Podcast Episode #68 "ReChrome" (1487927)
Posted by Convoy on May 17th, 2013 @ 12:53am CDT
I've wanted to try the Transformers Legends game for Android since it came out but can't get over all the permissions it requires. It doesn't surprise me that this "game"/personal information mining program heats up your phones and burns through your battery life. The art in this game is incredible, and again, would love to try it out but would definitely prefer a book filled with pictures of the cards... or physical cards!


And that's all I have to say about that.

Still holding out on Springer and Blitzwing somehow. I think Fort Max helps.

Been meaning to get back into the comics. Not sure which series is for me yet. I haven't been in the comics scene pretty much since War Within ended.

Not sure how to wrap this post up.
I popped my Seibertron Podcast cherry. I like it. Would listen again.
Re: Twincast / Podcast Episode #68 "ReChrome" (1487933)
Posted by jON3.0 on May 17th, 2013 @ 2:31am CDT
Bromance... I agree. It's "I Love You, Man" with Transformers. Haha! And GO GET THAT TRANSFORMERS: LEGENDS GAME! I'm telling you it's kickass! Oh, and hook up your cell to your pc so you can get all that awesome artwork and stuff on your computer too! Changed my Facebook background and profile pic with my epic Shockwave images. :D
Re: Twincast / Podcast Episode #68 "ReChrome" (1487936)
Posted by noctorro on May 17th, 2013 @ 2:46am CDT
Wow, I thought this podcast was going to be about trashing the new Metroplex.

But it's about gender stuff??? I'm going to dl this.

By the way, why does it need to be downloaded, can't it just be uploaded to youtube etc.?

And why do people have the need to project their sexual frustrations on alien robots?

They don't have sexual organs, they are not male or female in that way.

Some identify with certain aspects of human males, some human females. It's just the voice, visual esthetics and some personality characteristics. Nothing more.

+ Transformers were made up by humans, and humans always see themselves as greatest inspiration for lack of creative thinking.

That's why the male/female & romance thing in Transformers is so shallow and human like.

I refuse to see them as simple as humans, that's why I think they are genderless.
Re: Twincast / Podcast Episode #68 "ReChrome" (1487953)
Posted by Flux Convoy on May 17th, 2013 @ 5:19am CDT
I'm shocked so much time is spent discussing gender, sexuality and gender roles. I don't care who's in love with you. The question is, was it poignant? Did it stir a reaction for you? Did it make sense for the characters? Optimus Prime could be ga ga for Megatron for all I care. As long as it were handled with respect to the characters, I couldn't care less. These robots, autonomous beings or whatever you want to call them are as human in their personalities as can be. Why is emotion or even love such a taboo thing here? These aren't your fathers Transformers indeed. Thank God for that.
:BOT:
Re: Twincast / Podcast Episode #68 "ReChrome" (1487984)
Posted by Counterpunch on May 17th, 2013 @ 8:58am CDT
Flux Convoy wrote:I'm shocked so much time is spent discussing gender, sexuality and gender roles. I don't care who's in love with you. The question is, was it poignant? Did it stir a reaction for you? Did it make sense for the characters? Optimus Prime could be ga ga for Megatron for all I care. As long as it were handled with respect to the characters, I couldn't care less. These robots, autonomous beings or whatever you want to call them are as human in their personalities as can be. Why is emotion or even love such a taboo thing here? These aren't your fathers Transformers indeed. Thank God for that.
:BOT:


Respectfully, I'd say that the topic has always been a discussion point since female Transformers were introduced in S2 of G1.

It has never been a simple or quiet issue with a lot of how and why questions remaining unanswered.

To complicate the matter further, gender and gender identity is a topic this very comic line tackles in a very strange fashion, leaving more questions than answers in its wake.

So when we have a new theme, the possibility of what might be"Romantic Love", it most certainly is a topic worth discussing at length and should not be simply taken at face value.
 
I don't think anyone on the cast would argue that the plot "moment' was poignant.
 
The questions that arise from it are, "Does this fit within the existing framework?" "Is it expanding the story framework?" "Will it have lasting relevence?"
 
On the gender matter, the writer has set up a few questions that really do need answers.  "Are Transformers gender neutral? (This one solves almost every issue or point of discussion...)"  "What does Arcee's engineered gender mean?  Were the rest male?  Were the rest genderless and 'females' are the only gender?  Does any of it matter since gender is not a necessary element of procreation?"
 
Of course, even putting these questions out there is somewhat of a matter in embarrassing nerd analysis.  However, this is a podcast, a discussion show, so when the fandom begins to discuss these matters, we try to do so openly and honestly.
Re: Twincast / Podcast Episode #68 "ReChrome" (1488009)
Posted by worldsgreatest on May 17th, 2013 @ 10:19am CDT
Counterpunch, I feel like those are all relevant questions. Unfortunately I also feel like most of them are a result of IDW's editorial decisions.

Hopefully Roberts will clear a lot of it up in future interviews or collected editions? Here's hoping.
Re: Twincast / Podcast Episode #68 "ReChrome" (1488058)
Posted by Flux Convoy on May 17th, 2013 @ 2:53pm CDT
Counterpunch wrote:Respectfully, I'd say that the topic has always been a discussion point since female Transformers were introduced in S2 of G1.

It has never been a simple or quiet issue with a lot of how and why questions remaining unanswered.

To complicate the matter further, gender and gender identity is a topic this very comic line tackles in a very strange fashion, leaving more questions than answers in its wake.

So when we have a new theme, the possibility of what might be"Romantic Love", it most certainly is a topic worth discussing at length and should not be simply taken at face value.
 
I don't think anyone on the cast would argue that the plot "moment' was poignant.
 
The questions that arise from it are, "Does this fit within the existing framework?" "Is it expanding the story framework?" "Will it have lasting relevence?"
 
On the gender matter, the writer has set up a few questions that really do need answers.  "Are Transformers gender neutral? (This one solves almost every issue or point of discussion...)"  "What does Arcee's engineered gender mean?  Were the rest male?  Were the rest genderless and 'females' are the only gender?  Does any of it matter since gender is not a necessary element of procreation?"
 
Of course, even putting these questions out there is somewhat of a matter in embarrassing nerd analysis.  However, this is a podcast, a discussion show, so when the fandom begins to discuss these matters, we try to do so openly and honestly.

I certainly see the need or want to discuss it. I'm just surprised the discussion for it went on for so long. I guess It just doesn't pose those questions for me. I take it that this character loves that character. Okay, I'm cool with that. Reading these in trades I am admittedly not up to the speed the rest of you are. However, I am three books in on each and Arcee's engineered gender hasn't been addressed since her Spotlight and adventures with Hardhead. It seems like it was a silly thing to do for the character IMO. I think the stance they took about gender was all wrong to begin with. Like I said before, these characters are as human as can be in their personalities. There seem to be very few exceptions. Concepts like emotion, compassion and romantic love just don't seem alien to me here. I don't think you're asking the right questions of it. From a reader's standpoint (mine, of course) the story should make me care about the characters I'm reading. Always. Otherwise, what is the point of telling their story. In More Than Meets the Eye, each character has their own interesting story, history, flaws. Things that should make you care. This simply seems like it would make me care more about the characters than I did before.
:BOT:

::EDIT:: Good to have you back, by the way. ;)
Re: Twincast / Podcast Episode #68 "ReChrome" (1488194)
Posted by jON3.0 on May 17th, 2013 @ 11:08pm CDT
noctorro wrote:By the way, why does it need to be downloaded, can't it just be uploaded to youtube etc.?


I'm hoping eventually Ryan will let us do this as a Google+ LIVE! Hangout on YouTube as well as a DLable podcast.
Re: Twincast / Podcast Episode #68 "ReChrome" (1488209)
Posted by lonrac on May 17th, 2013 @ 11:36pm CDT
great episode again guys.

Really enjoy the bragging rights when someone comes across something rare and unusual,and Diaclone stuff is really cool.
Re: Twincast / Podcast Episode #68 "ReChrome" (1489601)
Posted by AliasAngelAlias on May 23rd, 2013 @ 12:36pm CDT
Hello guys at Twincast podcast,

I been on Transformers Legend almost every single days for the past few months and the game is really average to say the least but it is completely addicting.

If you guys want to alliance with me, look me up.


User: AliasAngel2005

Level: 234 (adjustable)

Victories: 1566 (adjustable)

Deck Power: 9,627

Rare three - Maximum level 50 cards (Alt Max + Bot Max = 50 Max): Cyclonus, Ratchet, Ravage, WheelJack, Chromia, Bumblee, Skywarp, Laserbeak, Thundercracker, Ultra Magnus, Soundwave, Slipstream, Jazz, Megatron, Shockwave, Starscream, Optimus Prime, Grimlock, Sludge, Dirge (Special event), Cliff Jumper (Special event) X2.

Rare Four - Maximum level 65 cards (Alt Max + Bot Max = 65 Max): Twinstrike (Special event), Rippersnapper (Special event), Slipstream (Special event), Arcee (Special event) X 2, Blight (Special event), Skywarp (Special event), Chromia (Special event).

Weapon Maximum level: Grimlock, Shockwave, Sludge, Acid Storm, Sunstorm, Firestar, Dirge, Arcee X2, Slipstream, Cliff Jumper, Skywarp 2, Chromia 2, Thrust, Jazz 2.


I really enjoy your show. Keep up the good work.

Cheers,
AliasAngelAlias

P.S. Still haven't got the urge to spend money on that game yet.
Re: Twincast / Podcast Episode #68 "ReChrome" (1489758)
Posted by ScottyP on May 23rd, 2013 @ 10:29pm CDT
Started trying to run this on Twitter but damn, that character limit.

I've been holding out for awhile on posting my opinion of the Rewind/Chromedome matter, because it's difficult for me to put something down that doesn't come across as a silly fanboyish gush towards what James Roberts has done and what I think he is doing. I don't intend that and I can absolutely find fault in a little bit of his stuff, so I've been hesitant to say anything. That said, here goes nothing.

I've been waiting for years for Transformers fiction to grow up with me. It's time to explore some grey areas, time to complicate stuff, time to recognize that the Bay movies were the adolescence and now is when some material should come around that's actually somewhat humanized to the point where I have to think about it. The catch - MTMTE has humanized these characters to the point where I've had to think more critically about the different threads and characters than when humans were actually involved in the plot.

So let's go over the original concept of Transformers, at least how I viewed them as a child and foreversince - Sentient beings from the Planet Cybertron. There's a word here - sentient. To me, sentience immediately takes these characters and intrinsically inputs additional, assumed properties, things such as emotion, self-awareness, self-preservation, morality, companionship, and brotherhood.

These are pretty advanced concepts, why on earth would I think robots would intrinsically have these due to sentience? Well, they've been around for millions of years. Right? Right. Humans have been around for maybe a million-ish? Been awhile since Biology. Semi-point - humans have evolved these concepts in less time. Granted, with a whole different set of 'rules', but less time. Anyway, back to the point.

Transformers fiction has explored a lot of these concepts. In fact, most of them. Even the original series, as pointed out by many, introduced the concept of gender, or at least gender identity, into a series about robots. While this was obviously originally a test to see if little girls might actually get into this (they didn't, back then, now is different), it gosh-darned confused me at a young age - but not at -that- young of an age. It only confused me once I realized what sex was. Oh wait - sex doesn't equal gender, now does it?

Assumption now is that gender is something in TF fiction. Let us remember that gender is a social construct. Go to the seedier parts of the internet and you will be quickly reminded of this (note: if you do this, I'm not responsible for what happens to your brain :-$ ). So, gender identity is absolutely a thing in Transformers, has been since '86. Then along comes Simon Furman.

Simon Furman - c'mon man. You took a given quantity, and decided that it needed a completely perverse justification. It was never unreasonable to assume that a sentient race would develop gender as an identification mechanism. But then you made it unreasonable by making the only in fiction "Female" the equivalent of the aforementioned thing you find in the seedier parts of the internet. Then you did a disservice to women everywhere by making her absolutely batshit insane. (Edit: I think I might have been a little mean here originally, thanks beer. It's just that remembering Arcee's arc from years ago, coupled with my complete disappointment with Regeneration One, has led to mean spirited comments. I respect most of Mr. Furman's contributions to the Transformers lore. :) )

:BANG_HEAD:

Anyhow.

For those of you whom I have previously said - "I find transformers "Genderless" "- what I meant was non-sexual. I just didn't say the right word. But there it is.

Gender and sexuality are different things. Transformers have almost always (outside of two years) had gender. They've never had sexuality, except in the seedier and Pony-er places of the internet :SICK: They are sentient beings that I've always assumed can have complex emotions and social constructs. So, along comes James Roberts, who introduces the concept that two beings in a non-sexual society/race can love each other.


What's the big deal?


It had been hinted at for issue upon issue that these two characters shared a bond beyond that of bro-ness, beyond that of friendship. Since Issue 1 of MTMTE, to be precise, and if you think I'm wrong well... I'm going off memory, so I might be. Point being, given all the other things that Transformers have always had us take for granted, why in the world has this been such a stretch for so many people? I thought the plot thread involving Rewind and Chromedome was appropriate, impactful, humanizing, and goddamn beautiful. Finally, a bond between sentient beings so strong that only a very western word (thanks, Counterpunch) can describe to my very western self exactly how strong it is.

Poignancy at it's very finest and a triumph of a story arc.

Some of you just want to make it about "the gays". Just stop. Progress left your idea behind years ago.



Finally, I feel it appropriate to address: "Does this fit within the existing framework?" "Is it expanding the story framework?" "Will it have lasting relevence?"

Does this fit within the existing framework: In my mind, yes. See above.

Is it expanding the story framework: I hope so. I'm ready for there to be more bond between the characters besides "Hey bro, nice faction symbol. Let's kick tailgate."

Will it have lasting relevance: You're damn right it will. Even as a microcosm, the discussion and thought brought about by it will stick with me as a defining moment.

I hope that this moment is the one where Transformers fiction grew up, at least in one medium, and took me along with it.
Re: Twincast / Podcast Episode #68 "ReChrome" (1490390)
Posted by Hypershock on May 26th, 2013 @ 3:53pm CDT
I myself don't think that the relationship was a left-field matter. Cliffjumper in prime had appeared for five minutes, give or take; Chromedome and Rewind had been major characters in this monthly comic for over a year. I just got the first two MTMTE trade paperbacks, and there are hints of their relationship since issue one, and in almost every issue since. Granted, it wasn't like someone walking up and saying "Hey Chromedome, how are you and your boyfriend Rewind?" but it IS stated that they are almost constant companions. Then i believe in issue twelve or thirteen, Chromedome is outright stated as some latin-based cybertronian term for partner or significant other.

Also, i don't think this is meant to address homosexual relationships, but just relationships in general. I do agree that the better gender approach is "There are boy transformers and girl transformers, and that's all that will be said" Because you can have both types of relationships. But i also think that this approach is being done well; i see it as these beings are very ancient, and if they did have gender way back when, it has become outmoded by the present day. Since they do not need to sexually reproduce, there is technically no need for gender. This approach is inherently hard to convey, because most languages naturally have a concept for male and female, and i would imagine the IDW version of Cybertronian does not. Chromedome and Rewind are just two beings who love each other, there is no need for them to be male or female. I don't think this approach diminishes the LGBT community either, because since IDW Cybertronians mostly lack gender, then by nature there can be no LGBT in that species. I don't mean this to sound insensitive at all. Just as a barebones to be a transsexual you have to change sexes, and you can't do that if you don't have a sex. Im not trying to say that the LGBT community thing is stupid, it's just a moot point in a sexless society, so the comics can't help but not address it because they weren't writing a homosexual relationship, they were just writing a relationship.

Also, i think gender portrayal depends on the incarnation of the franchise. Several incarnations have had clearly defined genders, like the Beast ones, G1, animated, etc. However, IDW's Arcee is the first Cybertronian in that continuity to be distinctly female; other characters have many traits that can belong to either males or females.

I apologize if my wording offends, i did not mean it to. I am okay with either portrayal, but in this situation, i prefer that one approach, but i will certainly not mind if it is stated to be the other.
Re: Twincast / Podcast Episode #68 "ReChrome" (1491978)
Posted by Flux Convoy on June 1st, 2013 @ 1:12pm CDT
ScottyP wrote:Some of you just want to make it about "the gays". Just stop. Progress left your idea behind years ago.

:APPLAUSE: This summed up my feelings pretty well. I enjoyed the body of your post as well. This specifically needed pointing out though. ;)
:BOT:
Re: Twincast / Podcast Episode #68 "ReChrome" (1492647)
Posted by xyl360 on June 4th, 2013 @ 1:23pm CDT
I've always wondered about TF relationships like many of you (and clearly these writers have as well). I found it fascinating in Beast Wars for example when Airazor and Tigatron merged their sparks to inhabit one body (Tigerhawk), taking on both female and male personality traits (although the voice was obviously just the same male voice Tigatron had previously, the mannerisms give away that the feminine aspects of the personality (i.e. Airazor) were still present.

In a race that does not procreate by sexual means (as far as we know in any fiction I'm aware of at least), I think this concept of two romantic partners 'merging' is very interesting and puts a whole emotional and spiritual spin on the whole matter, going into a very intimate place without getting sexual (since again, sex isn't an aspect of who the Transformers have been up to this point, at least not that we're aware of for the sake of procreation, though they have eluded to sexual attraction and even had crude comments about it such as 'serving bots minus their torso plates').

I think if IDW took it in a similar direction with Rewind and Chromedome, merging them somehow into a single being, that would be an interesting progression and adaptation of the mythos and concept of romantic love in the TF universe because it would be a way for them to act on their feelings and define very clearly a boundary where a relationship is defined as either 'just friends' or 'more than friends' (e.g. 'lovers' in human terms).

Either way, I find it very interesting that they chose to go in this direction and strike what some would view as a very controversial chord, but it's not the first time comics have tried to take a more serious tone and attempt to tackle (or at least touch on) sensitive subject matter that's relevant to human society in the real world of the reader, and I'm sure it won't be the last. That's part of what art is all about, human expression and analysis and expression of/a reflection of the human condition.

Bear in mind that all of the above comes from an individual who hasn't read the comics, so all I have to go on is what's been said in this thread and in the podcast itself, but either way, I find the whole thing to be interesting if they choose to do more with not only the (possible) concept of romantic relationships in the TF universe, but also defining ways for the bots to express it (and no, I'm not asking for some perverse physical acts etc. like some of the bizarre fanfiction out there, just something more than 'I love you', e.g. the whole '2 sparks merging' concept I referred to above).
Re: Twincast / Podcast Episode #68 "ReChrome" (1493180)
Posted by Counterpunch on June 6th, 2013 @ 12:51pm CDT
Since we're about to record again, figures I'd drop in and thank everyone for the discussion and not crucifying us for bringing it up to begin with.
Re: Twincast / Podcast Episode #68 "ReChrome" (1493821)
Posted by xyl360 on June 9th, 2013 @ 8:30am CDT
Counterpunch wrote:Since we're about to record again, figures I'd drop in and thank everyone for the discussion and not crucifying us for bringing it up to begin with.

No, there will be no crucifixions for you guys today. The members of Funpub are currently occupying all of our crosses :P.
Re: Twincast / Podcast Episode #68 "ReChrome" (1494828)
Posted by joevill on June 12th, 2013 @ 11:15pm CDT
I love you. :x
Re: Twincast / Podcast Episode #68 "ReChrome" (1497498)
Posted by MGrotusque on June 22nd, 2013 @ 9:09pm CDT
The relationship between the two can be interpreted as a deep spiritual kinship. An intense friendship or a brotherly bond.
That love stuff takes many forms and meanings. Know what i mean.
Transformers Podcast: Twincast / Podcast #91 - History Lesson
Twincast / Podcast #91:
"History Lesson"
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Posted: Monday, April 21st, 2014