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-Kanrabat- wrote:The one that DID find out was that computer program Doctor Strange created. It went rogue, found a body, and proceed to hunt down Batman. By simple deductions, the robot foud Batman at Bruce's manor. The robot eventually self-destructed or something after Batman made some mind-games with it. The other is the Riddler, who came really close by playing "Akinator" with a captured Batman. Both are episodes from "The Batman".

I am not talking about The Batman. I am never talking about The Batman. By the way, I don't know of a continuity where Strange didn't learn Batman's identity. And Riddler learned Batman's identity in the comics, too. Batman convinced him to keep quiet because it would lead Ra's al Ghul to learn Riddler had been using his Lazarus Pits without permission.

But I'm talking about an instance where a villain learned it and specifically ignored it because they didn't believe it.

-Kanrabat- wrote:In the other movies, Scarecrow, Joker, and Two Face survived the more realistic transition.

Remind me again of The Joker's origins in DKR compared to his comic book origins ...

Burn wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:In the other movies, Scarecrow, Joker, and Two Face survived the more realistic transition.

Remind me again of The Joker's origins in DKR compared to his comic book origins ...

If I remember correctly, in the comic, Jocker DID NOT have an origin. The only origin I think was explained was only influenced by the 1989 Tim Burton movie. But heh, I'm not a reader of Batman comics. Trying to catch up with almost 80 years of comics is just insane.

From Wikipedia:
Though many have been related, a definitive back-story has never been established for the Joker in the comics, and his real name has never been confirmed. He himself is confused as to what actually happened; as he says in The Killing Joke, "Sometimes I remember it one way, sometimes another... if I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice! Ha ha ha!"

In The Dark Knight, Joker was perfect as a realistic Joker and as expected, his origins remain a total mystery. I like it that way.

Yeah, see, I actually checked Wikipedia BEFORE asking, and rather than quoting a small section, you need to take into account the WHOLE article.

You know ... the article which states that while his origin is not definitive, and he's had a couple, the prevailing origin story is falling into a vat of chemicals.

Now obviously that's not what happened in DKRreturns. DKRreturns, he was just a plain psychotic human. Just like Catwoman is a plain human, who's got some wicked safe cracking skills. THAT is the basis of her character, the cat obsession thing is a side story, so DKRises is a very accurate on-character portrayal for the tone of the movies they were going for.

I see what you mean.

Still, the DK Joker was instantly recognisable. You just look at him and it SCREAM "Joker".
I look at that Catwoman and... I just see a random girl.

Joker had that charisma and that foreboding aura around him that made him memorable. I personally find that Catwoman just "meh". I already forgot her face. Maybe if they had cast another actress to portray her.... at least it was not Kristen Stewart.

-Kanrabat- wrote:I look at that Catwoman and... I just see a random girl.

Because that's what she is. She's an ordinary human who's skillset is being able to break into things. She's no meta-human, but at the same time she's one of the most interesting of DC's characters.

If anything, DKRises is actually a very good representation of her modern character. A burglar that treads the line between moral and immoral.

Burn wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:I look at that Catwoman and... I just see a random girl.

Because that's what she is. She's an ordinary human who's skillset is being able to break into things. She's no meta-human, but at the same time she's one of the most interesting of DC's characters.

If anything, DKRises is actually a very good representation of her modern character. A burglar that treads the line between moral and immoral.

She was also not showing off as much skin as her suit can allow, while making gratuitous cat puns, so I'd say this is a better incarnation of the character.

I see your point. Kinda logical for a pro cat-burglar to look and sound ordinary. This help sneaking around and rob around unsuspected.

Now, for the next trilogy, I want a mix of the Nolan and Burton's movie style. I want a nice equelibrium between the gothic and kinda cartoony of Burton mixed with the realism of Nolan.
So that the next trilogy will be "comic" enough without being over the top. Kinda like the recent two Batman games actually.

I want to see Clayface, Solomon Grundy, Scarface, the Riddler, the Penguin, even Killer Croc. Oh yeah, and bring me some Poison Ivy and Harley Quinn.

EDIT:

Check out the Bum's review!

I just noticed something about this movie. I hope this doesn't really spoil anything, but here it is; how the hell does Bruce Wayne get from a freaking desert in India to Gotham ON FOOT no transportation, get new clothes, while the bridges are blown up, all within a couple of hours!? How? How is this possible? STUPID STUPID MOVIE!!! I didn't even notice this before! How could we have missed this!?

But I have devised a theory to explain this: CLAYFACE. That is all.

SlyTF1 wrote:I just noticed something about this movie. I hope this doesn't really spoil anything, but here it is; how the hell does Bruce Wayne get from a freaking desert in India to Gotham ON FOOT no transportation, get new clothes, while the bridges are blown up, all within a couple of hours!? How? How is this possible? STUPID STUPID MOVIE!!! I didn't even notice this before! How could we have missed this!?

But I have devised a theory to explain this: CLAYFACE. That is all.

Who said it was a couple hours? It's six months between the destruction of the stadium and the finale. he could have hitched a ride on, I dunno, a smuggler plane, like he did in the last movie. Also, who said it was India? They never really say, do they? Looks like it could be Spain, or Africa, or South America, or the Middle East. (Deshi Basara, the chant used in the Pit as well as the chant from Bane's theme, is Arabic Moroccan, in fact) Even getting past the bridges isn't that big of a deal; he's Batman, he has total mastery of stealth and infiltration, he can get past a simple military roadblock.

Basically, there is no plot hole there, just you making up details or forgetting you're talking about Batman.

And Clayface doesn't make any sense as a theory. What, did Bruce pay money he doesn't have to a villain who doesn't exist in this continuity (And who hates him in every other continuity) to impersonate and fight his battles for him, while he chills out in another country knowing that he's completely failed at saving Gotham to the point that he has to bribe a supervillain to do it for him?

Shadowman wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:I just noticed something about this movie. I hope this doesn't really spoil anything, but here it is; how the hell does Bruce Wayne get from a freaking desert in India to Gotham ON FOOT no transportation, get new clothes, while the bridges are blown up, all within a couple of hours!? How? How is this possible? STUPID STUPID MOVIE!!! I didn't even notice this before! How could we have missed this!?

But I have devised a theory to explain this: CLAYFACE. That is all.

Who said it was a couple hours? It's six months between the destruction of the stadium and the finale. he could have hitched a ride on, I dunno, a smuggler plane, like he did in the last movie. Also, who said it was India? They never really say, do they? Looks like it could be Spain, or Africa, or South America, or the Middle East. (Deshi Basara, the chant used in the Pit as well as the chant from Bane's theme, is Arabic Moroccan, in fact) Even getting past the bridges isn't that big of a deal; he's Batman, he has total mastery of stealth and infiltration, he can get past a simple military roadblock.

Basically, there is no plot hole there, just you making up details or forgetting you're talking about Batman.

And Clayface doesn't make any sense as a theory. What, did Bruce pay money he doesn't have to a villain who doesn't exist in this continuity (And who hates him in every other continuity) to impersonate and fight his battles for him, while he chills out in another country knowing that he's completely failed at saving Gotham to the point that he has to bribe a supervillain to do it for him?

They clearly say that the bomb will be activated in (I forget how many) hours, Before he makes it out of the prison.

I was just thinking Clayface just...did it to do it...

SlyTF1 wrote:They clearly say that the bomb will be activated in (I forget how many) hours, Before he makes it out of the prison.

When Bruce rescues Lucius and goes to get his suit, it's daytime. When he rescues Gordon, it's nighttime, and when the big battle begins, it's daytime again. I think you're forgetting more than how many hours they say the bomb has until it goes off.

SlyTF1 wrote:I was just thinking Clayface just...did it to do it...

He doesn't even exist in this continuity.

Shadowman wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:They clearly say that the bomb will be activated in (I forget how many) hours, Before he makes it out of the prison.

When Bruce rescues Lucius and goes to get his suit, it's daytime. When he rescues Gordon, it's nighttime, and when the big battle begins, it's daytime again. I think you're forgetting more than how many hours they say the bomb has until it goes off.

SlyTF1 wrote:I was just thinking Clayface just...did it to do it...

He doesn't even exist in this continuity.

I just think they should have explained it a bit more, that's all.

And how do we know he doesn't exist? Twoface didn't exist in this continuity either until he was introduced. Neither did the Joker, or Bane, or Talia. You could argue that last one. Besides, I didn't even say that and expect it to be taken as an actual plausible theory anyway. It was just some crazy, off the wall, explanation I came up with in my head.

SlyTF1 wrote:I just think they should have explained it a bit more, that's all.

They already explained it: He's the goddamn Batman.

SlyTF1 wrote:And how do we know he doesn't exist? Twoface didn't exist in this continuity either until he was introduced. Neither did the Joker, or Bane, or Talia. You could argue that last one. Besides, I didn't even say that and expect it to be taken as an actual plausible theory anyway. It was just some crazy, off the wall, explanation I came up with in my head.

And you know what else? Clayface still doesn't exist in this continuity, and he never would have worked in it anyway.

Shadowman wrote:And you know what else? Clayface still doesn't exist in this continuity, and he never would have worked in it anyway.

Actually, Clayface could exist in this continuity. Just not in the way you might know him.

Golden Age Clayface was an actor Basil Karlo who was an actor that was pissed off cause he couldn't reprise his role for the remake. So he dons, the mask of Clayface and starts killing the actors.

So a psycho with a mask. It would work very well for the Dark Knight style.

robofreak wrote:

Shadowman wrote:And you know what else? Clayface still doesn't exist in this continuity, and he never would have worked in it anyway.

Actually, Clayface could exist in this continuity. Just not in the way you might know him.

Golden Age Clayface was an actor Basil Karlo who was an actor that was pissed off cause he couldn't reprise his role for the remake. So he dons, the mask of Clayface and starts killing the actors.

So a psycho with a mask. It would work very well for the Dark Knight style.

Except that has no bearing on this at all, since his argument is about Clayface perfectly impersonating Bruce Wayne via his shape-shifting.

Shadowman wrote:

robofreak wrote:

Shadowman wrote:And you know what else? Clayface still doesn't exist in this continuity, and he never would have worked in it anyway.

Actually, Clayface could exist in this continuity. Just not in the way you might know him.

Golden Age Clayface was an actor Basil Karlo who was an actor that was pissed off cause he couldn't reprise his role for the remake. So he dons, the mask of Clayface and starts killing the actors.

So a psycho with a mask. It would work very well for the Dark Knight style.

Except that has no bearing on this at all, since his argument is about Clayface perfectly impersonating Bruce Wayne via his shape-shifting.

What about Clayface would be (incredibly) a legendary good actor who is SO perfect at immitating anyone, even the close family can be fooled? Add the ability to be the perfect make-up artist who use a revolitionary technique to quickly put on a mask that feel "alive"?
Of course, Clayface will be restricted to persons to immitate that have his average build.

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

robofreak wrote:

Shadowman wrote:And you know what else? Clayface still doesn't exist in this continuity, and he never would have worked in it anyway.

Actually, Clayface could exist in this continuity. Just not in the way you might know him.

Golden Age Clayface was an actor Basil Karlo who was an actor that was pissed off cause he couldn't reprise his role for the remake. So he dons, the mask of Clayface and starts killing the actors.

So a psycho with a mask. It would work very well for the Dark Knight style.

Except that has no bearing on this at all, since his argument is about Clayface perfectly impersonating Bruce Wayne via his shape-shifting.

What about Clayface would be (incredibly) a legendary good actor who is SO perfect at immitating anyone, even the close family can be fooled? Add the ability to be the perfect make-up artist who use a revolitionary technique to quickly put on a mask that feel "alive"?
Of course, Clayface will be restricted to persons to immitate that have his average build.

So, basically, just a rip off of Mission Impossible.

Shadowman wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

robofreak wrote:

Shadowman wrote:And you know what else? Clayface still doesn't exist in this continuity, and he never would have worked in it anyway.

Actually, Clayface could exist in this continuity. Just not in the way you might know him.

Golden Age Clayface was an actor Basil Karlo who was an actor that was pissed off cause he couldn't reprise his role for the remake. So he dons, the mask of Clayface and starts killing the actors.

So a psycho with a mask. It would work very well for the Dark Knight style.

Except that has no bearing on this at all, since his argument is about Clayface perfectly impersonating Bruce Wayne via his shape-shifting.

What about Clayface would be (incredibly) a legendary good actor who is SO perfect at immitating anyone, even the close family can be fooled? Add the ability to be the perfect make-up artist who use a revolitionary technique to quickly put on a mask that feel "alive"?
Of course, Clayface will be restricted to persons to immitate that have his average build.

So, basically, just a rip off of Mission Impossible.

Overquoting to say, no. Just a rip-off of DARKMAN.

And by the way, stop being so negative. It's depressing.

-Kanrabat- wrote:And by the way, stop being so negative. It's depressing.

He's not being depressing. He's just disagreeing because that's what he does.

You'll learn to ignore him soon enough.

Burn wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:And by the way, stop being so negative. It's depressing.

He's not being depressing. He's just disagreeing because that's what he does.

You'll learn to ignore him soon enough.

You'll also learn to skim Burn's posts. It's a useful ability.

Also I don't know why everyone's bringing up Basil Karlo and his original abilities or lack thereof, seeing as this conversation is based around Matt Hagen or, all things considered, Karlo's appearance in Arkham City. You know, the version that can't work in this universe? The big mud monster? I never actually said an idea like an eerily-perfect mimic couldn't work. It's just that randomly introducing that to explain Bruce Wayne getting around the world quickly is unnecessary when you can just say "He's Batman" and everything works out.

Shadowman wrote:You'll also learn to skim Burn's posts. It's a useful ability.

Also I don't know why everyone's bringing up Basil Karlo and his original abilities or lack thereof, seeing as this conversation is based around Matt Hagen or, all things considered, Karlo's appearance in Arkham City. You know, the version that can't work in this universe? The big mud monster? I never actually said an idea like an eerily-perfect mimic couldn't work. It's just that randomly introducing that to explain Bruce Wayne getting around the world quickly is unnecessary when you can just say "He's Batman" and everything works out.

The point of bringing up Basil Karlo and his lack of abilities is to prove that Clayface can in fact work in the Nolanverse.

robofreak wrote:

Shadowman wrote:You'll also learn to skim Burn's posts. It's a useful ability.

Also I don't know why everyone's bringing up Basil Karlo and his original abilities or lack thereof, seeing as this conversation is based around Matt Hagen or, all things considered, Karlo's appearance in Arkham City. You know, the version that can't work in this universe? The big mud monster? I never actually said an idea like an eerily-perfect mimic couldn't work. It's just that randomly introducing that to explain Bruce Wayne getting around the world quickly is unnecessary when you can just say "He's Batman" and everything works out.

The point of bringing up Basil Karlo and his lack of abilities is to prove that Clayface can in fact work in the Nolanverse.

Why are we even arguing about this? You're totally ignoring the original point: Randomly introducing Clayface to explain away a plot hole is silly when A: Said plot hole doesn't even exist and B: Bruce Wayne can get from point A to point B by being the goddamn Batman, he does not need a body double.

And by the way, no, a giant mud monster cannot work in the Nolan movies. I'm not sure why you keep trying to shift the conversation away from that. Not to mention it would be the most radical change done to any of the villains, removing all but one of his abilities. Mr. Freeze has a freeze gun, Poison Ivy has plants, Scarecrow has his fear toxin, and Clayface is a giant mud monster. When was the last time the character was used without his mud-powers?

Shadowman wrote:Why are we even arguing about this?

Because you don't know when to let something go instead of having to have the last say.

Oh and for the record, Basil Karlo, the original Clayface who was introduced in 1940, never had clay powers, he was just an actor. So Clayface was not originally a "giant mud monster".

Just saying.